Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[nofunk 1,933]

THANK YOU for keeping this an I-HT! It'll be a great addition to the game. And it looks fantastic!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Ok everyone, I've uploaded the TruNite rig and tutorial. It would have been up sooner, but I was trying to export both versions of the teapot. Though I ended up just taking the day render and adding blue to it to make the default night. That's all the game does, but I faked it.

Interchange: That problem happens when there isn't a menu icon. I've downloaded it from the STEX and checked it, and they're there, and they've always shown up in my game. Try emptying your plugins folder of everything except for Chase Tower, and see if it shows up then. If so, then something else you downloaded is missing its menu icon and is messing up the rest of the menu. If not, try redownloading it and trying again.

Nofunk: Thanks!

[spa 968]

Jason that looks pretty good. I really like this bat. It makes for a nice complex and the lot is very appropriate. I only have one quibble and it's the same one I had with your police station: your flood lights appear out of thin air! I think you need to break down and model a light you can reuse for these situations as it really does look odd for such bright lighting to not have an identifiable source.

[Gn_leugim 853]

the I-HT is awesome.. good job

[bixel 1,223]

only problem is you have some dependanc'es connected to the rig MAX8 is using some dlc files MAX7 doesnt have

[Jasoncw 11,840]

spa:  Yeah, I remember you said that before.  I'll try to remember it in the future, but you'll need to remind me, lol.

Gn_leugim:  Thanks 

Bixel:  I guess I probably should have had people test it.  To be honest I don't know what any of that stuff does or how to remove them, if they can be removed.  What happens if you just ignore all the messages (or can you not do that?).

[bixel 1,223]

I can ignore the messages, but I am sure its not going to render very good. No biggie - I could simply recreate the CAM scene in 7.

[Interchange 0]

Wow that building is beautiful! Can't believe I didn't see it.

[SimFox 801]

this issue (backward incompatibility of different versions of MAX) is the the reason I have stopped doing that sort of scenes for download.

It is much more prudent to simply explain how such scene could be set by anyone interested rather then provide a ready one. If person couldn't follow instructions... well it is clear cut case he doesn't NEED it.

So I would suggest to remake this- not sure what to call it into detailed and illustrated tutorial explaining how and WHY to set such a scene.

Day case is very simple and straight forward one ( only change I would very strongly suggest is to replace direct light with Sun light since it is limitless and independent of Z axis on (of the light itself).

Night being it TtruNute or regular one is more complex. This is particularly case if any color mapping (exposure control is used), because it would seriously distort the effect of the Light Tint used to make night view. Generally it isn't the best was since it affects everything in the scene by applying color filter with multiply blending over the image. Much better solution is to altered the skylight itself to match needed light levels and tint.

The very idea of truNite came out of two different "needs" if you will that turned to have SAME solution.

1st was the fact that mitelite mask is severly modified in the process or export and then compressed that leads to sever banding obvious on monotonous surfaces.

2nd was the strong "sun" shadows on the night views.

Replacing partial gradient nitelite mask with complete solid day view mask kills two birds with one stone. And separate render of day and night view makes into almost mass murder of problems. Since in addition to first two it also cuts the total export time by 1/3, and effectively neutralize most problematic spot in script - day/night change and processing on nitelite masks that cause 90% of all failures.

The process of masks(FSH) substitutions could be very easy and quick - mater of 30 seconds or less regardless of the size of the BAT. I'll try to right tutorial explaining how exactly it could be achieved in coming couple of days.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

As long as part of the building doesn't go behind the direct light, shouldn't the direct light be ok?  Will the sun decrease render times or increase quality?

I forgot about the version compatibility.  I did want these to be simple and easy.  A lot of people don't want to get so involved in the theory or technicalness of stuff.  This is evidenced by large majority of people who use the default rig.  This isn't about spreading knowledge as much as it's about simply improving people's renders.

[mightygoose 92]

jason and simfox,

i am inclined to agree with both of you, on the one hand it is, in the perfect world, better for all to gain an understanding as to the mechanics behind why jason's and any other custom rig is better in the hope that they themselves can potentially improve any rig beyond the supplied state, however this world is far from perfect and for many people this quick fix will be a brilliant addition to some great creations that just needed that little bit of render polish to be truly fantastic. jason thankyou for the rig, i am using it now, and it is a marked improvement, however to credit simfox and autovino, i am tweaking it to include raytracing and caustics as per the standards and explanations set down in their respective threads and for that information i thank you both as well. simfox i saw you registered over at the 3d resource i think that would be a great place to reprint some of our work on the geometry of light and shadow and all the other informative posts you make on this forum, they may well be better appreciated there than here.

anyway to reiterate for those who looked and said TLR thanks for the rig jason

MG

[SimFox 801]

Jason, MG:

I understand that, but the problem is that simplicity is illusory. When person with older version tries to use it and it just doesn't work do you think it has become easier for him/her? A little explanation goes a LONG way. And I'm not talking about giving deep background education, no, just some instructions. And in this case instructions on setting the rig up are very simple really: 1. Make Sun light position it there. 2 Make Sky light, position it here - all instructions... and it will work regardless of MAX version. So I think it is actually easier as it prevents potential avalanche of "it doesn't work for me".

Sun is better for same very reason you advocate - simplicity. With it you will NEVER need to worry about size or position of your structure. It could be as big as you wish or off centered as you may wish and ALWAYS be fully light. And if you have Max that has MR Sun then you have benefit of area shadow that goes a LONG way to add both quality and realism.

Another point is that such a rig does call for some sort of color mapping to be used. The reason for it is that both Sun and Sky have to use shadows. This may leave some areas - like light wells or niches way to dark. In default rig that are lights both in Sun group as well in Sky that do not cast shadows -eg penetrate any object providing sort of ambient light. and in Sun-Sky rig there aren't such and any GI solution wouldn't go quite far enough to compensate for that alone. So Some sort of color mapping - Logarithmic or MR Photographic (or something else - probably renderer dependent) that would "equalize" image is called for.

Generally it is necessary to look a little beyond obvious. Chase of "simple solutions" is often has hidden agenda of creating dependency or distorting competition (like Sony calling FireWire "iLink" or Apples calling WiFi "AirPort" both are charging for their "easy" equipment price significantly above of market one). Or catering to basic laziness of our species. In any respect it never creates anything that could even remotely be called EXCELLENT.

In the end it all boils down to simple old saying.

Give man a fish and he shall not go hungry for a day, teach man to fish and he shall never be hungry again.

About 3d Resource... I'm still trying to get my head around the very idea of the site. What are it goals? I checked some tutorials and they are basically remake (and not necessarily improved) of ones already made by Autodesk and that are either shipping with MAX or available from Autodesk site.

Does the site target BATing community or is it another general 3d modeling/visualisation site? If first then it fails to spot the real issues, if second... well, there are plenty of those what would make this one special? But I'll be checking it and may be get it in the end ;-)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

For now I'll leave them there for those who can use them. I'll look into what you've suggested.

[Swiss_Canadian 2]

Looks Dazzling Jas!

[bixel 1,223]

Jasoncw: in your PDF tut you are not telling us to assign the renderer - but instead have it use a preset.

Render Scene > Common > Assign Renderer

I assigned it Mental Ray - perhaps I was to leave it along and have the preset handle it???

[nevermind] you have to assign it - otherwise you can never assign the GI variables and the filter

[more] this is interesting, i took my scene deleted the nitelights, and now it renders fine. (ie. it goes through all the passes.)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Swiss_Canadian:  Thanks!

Bixel:  I've actually never seen the "Assign Renderer" thing until just now.  Changing the preset to one of the Mental Ray presets has always changed the renderer to Mental Ray for me.

I think that you did something with your nitelites that was either ok with max 7 or ok with scanline, but isn't ok with mental ray or max 8.

[bixel 1,223]

correct: I am assuming since I created the nitelights in the defaulter renderer - Mental Ray had a problem with them and threw out the export.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I just started this, since I felt like BATing and didn't feel like BATing modernism or art deco.  This would be a 1x2 corner CO$$$.

I fear that this is too tall and dense and will grow too much.  I experimented and tried making a 4x4 O shaped building with this facade, and then tried making a U shaped building, but neither ended up looking very good.  I might experiment with more shapes, or I might just leave it with this, and hope that people don't mind seeing it grow a lot.

I'm going to be going back to college in a few days, and I have other things I need to do before then, so my BATing will probably grind to a halt for a while.

[Gn_leugim 853]

the Bat is good as it is.. about the over growing issue.. well.. we can handle it =) we are used to see maxis ones growing to much as well ^^

don't worry about halt a bit.. we wait =)

[scotty222 549]

thats a really nice building

i dont really care if it grows alot, its far better than the 1x2 maxis stuff that grows to much

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Easy to solve - simply make it a 2x1 corner lot, and it shouldn't grow too often.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks guys.

Ok, some progress.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Nofunk has finished modding the three department stores from earlier this summer.  After testing and packaging, I think they'll be ready for the STEX.

Also, I've finished the day version of the J. W. Reid Building.

The only new custom texture is the roof.  The rest are textures from old buildings, some with minor tweaks.  Usually all but a handful of the textures on a building would be new, but I've made so many glass limestone and brick textures that it's better off to reuse them.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

We can never get enough of these, Jason! Awesome work as usual Can't wait to see those department stores in the STEX aswell.

[SimFox 801]

Beautifull corner! I just, sort of, expected to see the brick on the side and yard walls.

BTW the building is set away from the "street" by 2 meters, right? Does the cornice overhangs the sidewalk?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks guys!

It's set back one paver tile, which is 1.6 meters. The cornice is within the lot, and has a custom LOD that accommodates the cornice, so that props can be put right next to the wall at the ground. The back is grey brick.

[Sim shady 12]

It gets a little old saying the same "that looks awesome" or "nice job" all the time, but what else can I say? That looks awesome, nice job

[josefmayor 8]

Very nice Jason!

[Gn_leugim 853]

fantastic

[xxbydesign 1]

Another great work. And making the lot a corner and only a corner should garuntee that it does not pop up like a weed! Any thoughts about awnings on the ground level to shade the large plate glass windows? Are there props you could tack on to make it look like rented retail space on the ground floor??