Twinkle, twinkle, little BAT...

[madhatter106 3,931]

It sounds like a normal error that happens because of your graphics card. If you look closer you'll see them on all buildings in the game. But there's nothing wrong with the buildings, and people with different graphics cards won't see them.

There's also a chance that it's the .FSH compression, but there's nothing you can do about that either.

I don't think it's the graphics card - I've looked at it on both my desktop, as well as my more modern laptop, two different graphics cards and it's something in the render; the pixels are blackened/"singed" in the exact same spots on both. Plus, in the first render and the second render, they're in the same positions. It's strange, because it's only happening with this particular file.

[mntoes 271]

Is this the problem to which you refer?

I had this problem way back in December 10. Never did solve it. Other than to go with the graphics card suggestion. One of the reasons I kind of stopped bating latley.

  Edited October 20, 2011 by mntoes  

[Jack_wilds 550]

I have a notion... it may not be a tech one such as -its in the .xml, .fsh, or whatever file or graphics card... but perhaps its the texture thats the issue; a change/ different texture or fudge its lapping... well thats my 2 cents worth ... trust it works out well... as for the naming conventions rather dry historical type stuff for inspiration huh... then for 'push' for a pack to use aviation mysteries as name conventional theme...

[madhatter106 3,931]

Is this the problem to which you refer?

I had this problem way back in December 10. Never did solve it. Other than to go with the graphics card suggestion. One of the reasons I kind of stopped bating latley.

Mntoes - yeah that's exactly what it's doing. I think it's something that is happening during the render; as I mentioned earlier, I've seen it with this particular BAT on both my desktop as well as my laptop. I might try redoing the LODs and the lighting, and might tweak the texture that it's mostly affecting, and try another re-render. Very very strange...

[Fribe 150]

Whatever happened to Roanoke, is it coming out in a different package?

Also, any chance of ploppables/landmarks? These things can't grow fast enough!

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Fribe, you can use the Extra Cheats DLL to plop down these buildings anytime you want, anywhere you want, as often as you want.

[mntoes 271]

I thought the problem sounded familiar. I tried re-loding. re-lighting and changing a few textures all to no avail. What I did do was to re-create the model bit by bit. (saving parts and then importing them into a new scene). It worked up to a point but when the model was complete again the same problem occured? argh****!!

To my shame I kind of gave up then as I got lost as to which part I had imported that could have caused the problem . I don't think it's a texture problem as I have used all of these textures before. My only other thought was that I rendered on a computer with a newer version of direct x. Could be wrong,just a thought.

If you do find a solution please, please do let me know. You would make my day!

Regards

Mntoes

  Edited October 21, 2011 by mntoes  

[spa 970]

Little late to the party on this one, but it doesn't look like you guys ever got a definite answer on the blurry splotches. Unfortunately, I don't have a fix for the issue, but I can tell you a lot more about it. I have the same problem with some of my buildings on my computer. I don't know why it appears on some, but not on others. It's most definitely a graphics card issue though. I looked at this in detail with another BSC member, Yoder7652. One of my building had splotches on my computer and on his, but not on his laptop. This made us realize that the problem isn't in the render, it's in the game/computer. The common denominator for us was nvidea graphics cards. The graphics card was further implicated by the fact that I can make the glitch go away on my computer by changing the ingame graphics setting (hardware versus software render).

  Edited December 11, 2011 by spa  

[madhatter106 3,931]

Little late to the party on this one, but it doesn't look like you guys ever got a definite answer on the blurry splotches. Unfortunately, I don't have a fix for the issue, but I can tell you a lot more about it. I have the same problem with some of my buildings on my computer. I don't know why it appears on some, but not on others. It's most definitely a graphics card issue though. I looked at this in detail with another BSC member, Yoder7652. One of my building had splotches on my computer and on his, but not on his laptop. This made us realize that the problem isn't in the render, it's in the game/computer. The common denominator for us was nvidea graphics cards. The graphics card was further implicated by the fact that I can make the glitch go away on my computer by changing the ingame graphics setting (hardware versus software render).

I'm going to offer some contradictory evidence to this theory - my building was rendered on a desktop with an ATI video card, and when I take the rendered file to my laptop with the nvidea graphics card, the flecks/splotches show up in exactly the same place. I've rendered it twice, and both times I can replicate the same exact spotting between both computers. The thing that is strange to me is that it's only on one particular texture - all the rest of the edges appear fine, it just happens on the edges with that specific texture. Which makes me want to do a test where I've switched out that texture and rendered the BAT, to see if it does the same thing...

[spa 970]

But hatter, if I'm reading your post right, aren't you reporting exactly what I was trying to describe? That the issue isn't in the render, it's in the nvidea card trying to display the model. That would fit with what you're reporting. Do the splotches show up in game on your computer with the ATI card or just in game with the nvidea card? What happens when you go in game and switch the render process under settings from hardware to software (on my machine that causes the splotches to disappear, but the sacrifice in the rest of the graphics department isn't worth the trade)? Way back when I first fought with this issue, I had the same idea as you. I tried to sub out the texture where the splotches were showing up. Unfortunately, it didn't work, but I only tried switching the texture for something of a similiar shade. I didn't radically change the texture. Would be interesting to try it with a complete replacement (instead of a different shade, something radical like a red for a yellow).

EDIT: Just went back to my thread and it seems I was fighting with this back in 2006! Switching textures did actually change things somewhat. Here's the page on my thread where it was first discussed. Quite a trip back in time!

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/8410-spas-urbanist-bat-thread/page__st__210

I railed about it some more when it showed up on my next building and then Yoder posted a reply and we went back and forth about the problem for a bit. Few confirmations form other posters at the time. The conclusion was that it was a graphics card issue and it seemed to only show up with nvidea cards. The 5200 nvidea seemed to be the common denominator.

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/8410-spas-urbanist-bat-thread/page__st__270

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/8410-spas-urbanist-bat-thread/page__st__300

  Edited December 12, 2011 by spa  

[madhatter106 3,931]

But hatter, if I'm reading your post right, aren't you reporting exactly what I was trying to describe? That the issue isn't in the render, it's in the nvidea card trying to display the model. That would fit with what you're reporting. Do the splotches show up in game on your computer with the ATI card or just in game with the nvidea card?

Rendered on ATI vidcard desktop + viewed on ATI vidcard desktop in LotEditor = splotches on edges of one texture

Rendered on ATI vidcard desktop + viewed on nvidea lapotop in LotEditor = splotches in the exact same place

I haven't attempted to view it in-game yet, as I got as far as the splotches in the LotEditor and stopped. But since the splotches are in identical places when viewed on both the ATI desktop and the nvidea laptop as I first noted when posting in October, I'm wondering where in the process it's creating this; in all of the BAT previews and views while rendering in gmax, the splotches don't appear. It's only when I take the file into the LotEditor that the edge sizzles show up. And they show up exactly the same if I'm on the desktop as when I take the file to the laptop (ie. same amount of pixels are blacked/greyed in the same spots). A second rendering ended up with nearly the same edge sizzling as the first, and those splotches on the second file matched between the two computers (the ATI desktop and the nvidea laptop). So I guess I don't know what the heck is going on, but I haven't had time to peruse the thread you posted...hopefully I can do so soon....

  Edited December 12, 2011 by madhatter106  

[Jasoncw 11,949]

Rendering is unrelated to the video card. The only thing in gmax that uses the video card is the viewports. I think you just happen to have two computers with two different video cards which have the same problem.

[madhatter106 3,931]

I think you just happen to have two computers with two different video cards which have the same problem.

Indeed. Which makes me wonder why this particular BAT and this particular problem. Haven't encountered it before in nearly three years of BATting, and this is the only one that has these symptoms...

[Jack_wilds 550]

I think you just happen to have two computers with two different video cards which have the same problem.

Indeed. Which makes me wonder why this particular BAT and this particular problem. Haven't encountered it before in nearly three years of BATting, and this is the only one that has these symptoms...

hey guys chiming in with a notion... you may or may not have explored it but, could it be a 'bad' texture? that for whatever reason can't seem to rendered -handled, like the other textures and/or there might be something 'attached' connected with/to those textures that be compounding the issue ... ... just voluteering a few notions... if I'm track I'll just sit down again

anyway... Merry Christmas

[spa 970]

Hey Hatter. Interesting bit of info to add. When I looked at it, the only people who reported problems were nvidea card users. That was several years ago now though. I still think it has to be something to do with the graphics card (nvidea or ATI) because, on my machine, I could make it disappear by changing the ingame graphics setting. I don't think the problem is in the model or the render. When you have a chance, go through the three pages of my thread. There was a fair bit of back and forth on it.

  Edited December 15, 2011 by spa  

[madhatter106 3,931]

Hey Hatter. Interesting bit of info to add. When I looked at it, the only people who reported problems were nvidea card users. That was several years ago now though. I still think it has to be something to do with the graphics card (nvidea or ATI) because, on my machine, I could make it disappear by changing the ingame graphics setting. I don't think the problem is in the model or the render. When you have a chance, go through the three pages of my thread. There was a fair bit of back and forth on it.

Yeah, it's maddening. I examined the fsh files in the Reader, and they are pristine; it's only when I get to the Lot Editor that the troubles begin. In game, I have the same situation - hardware rendering results in singed edges, while selecting software rendering and a restart of the game means that the model is clean and fine. It's so odd, but I think it must have something to do with the texture, as it will only crap out the pixels on the edges of this one texture (in this case, the burgundy). I might try messing around with it and rendering it yet again, to see if tweaking the texture might alleviate things. It's not a heinous error, but it's damned annoying...

[Jasoncw 11,949]

I think that pretty strongly confirms that it's the video card. The problem is that the video card isn't displaying the .FSH files correctly in the game. In that circumstance it can't handle some aspect of it correctly. The error doesn't have anything to do with the renders, because as you saw, the actual renders were pristine.

Luckily most people won't have the same problem as you. You could take the .SC4Model exactly as is and on most people's computers it would look just fine.

It's possible that the problem in this particular case (why it happens really bad sometimes, and not very much at other times) might be from the visual characteristic of the render. Something about the image gives it trouble. So maybe if you shift the geometry around a little and change the texture a little maybe it will be ok.

[mntoes 271]

JCW - "So maybe if you shift the geometry around a little and change the texture a little maybe it will be ok."

With my problem model I adopted the approach of re-building the whole thing bit by bit trying a re-render at each stage. (merging parts of the old model into a new scene, render, merge another part, render....) . It took ages, but it was only when the whole thing was almost complete again that the problem showed up again.(from memory above about 90%) . All of the textures have been used before on other models without the same effect so maybe it is a model problem. I must confess at that stage I gave up.

Edit.. sorry I think I may have repeated myself too much.

Update. I have now done a render on a computer with an ATI graphics card. The same problem presented itself. I am considering re-making the whole thing just to see what happens. At least with newer computers render times are shorter...lol. I will update you on my progress.

  Edited December 21, 2011 by mntoes  

[mntoes 271]

First of all let me appologise to Madhatter 106 for hijacking your thread somewhat. Sorry!

Resutls

1) I first started to completley re-model the building doing test renders as I went along. All went well until I used planes and textured them for the windows. This is when the problem first presented itself.

2) I went back to the original model and re-rendered without the windows or window texture. All ok.

3) I added a window plane to the windows one at a time and rendered each time.

4) All renders were ok until I added a plane to one paticular window. See pictures below:-

Al textures are the same and all rendering is done with an Nvidiea graphics card.

Without that one window plane the building renders fine in all directions.

I guess Jason hit the nail on the head with his suggestion about the visual characteristics of the render. (thanks Jason)

What am I going to do? Well i'm going to go back to my other models in the same set and try the same experiment. I could never have attempted this before but now rendering times are so much faster it's not such a pain.

I guess i'll be having some buildings without windows but on this scale you really don't notice,

Hope this helps with your problem and once again sorry to take over your thread.

Mntoes.

  Edited December 27, 2011 by mntoes  

[Jasoncw 11,949]

It's worth pointing out again though, that your graphics card isn't involved in rendering BATs in the BAT, it's only involved in displaying the buildings in the game and the LE.

It's strange that just a few different pixels makes it so unhappy but at least that gives hope that this problem can be minimized.

[madhatter106 3,931]

It is indeed a very strange situation, one which I have given up understanding. As long as the .fsh files are intact and the problem with the view isn't too widespread, I guess I'll be content to leave it be and stop troubleshooting...thanks, guys, though, for all the input - I'm glad I'm not insane, and merely mad...

Speaking of which, the second volume of the midrises is on the STEX, freshly uploaded. More on the way, in a differing slant this time...pictures to come when there's enough to show...

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yay! Guess I have downloading business to attend to... I'm so glad to see you uploaded them. This should happen more often. Boy, am I eager to break the dominance of Bennett Music Corp!

@ Mntoes: I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I had a BAT thread and you wrote replies that show how you researched a problem that affects me and how you care to help, I'd certainly not complain about "thread hijacking". That kind of hijacking would be a +1 in my books.

[madhatter106 3,931]

@ Mntoes: I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I had a BAT thread and you wrote replies that show how you researched a problem that affects me and how you care to help, I'd certainly not complain about "thread hijacking". That kind of hijacking would be a +1 in my books.

Indeed, Mntoes, thanks for the detective work - it was curious to see how you went about it - much more thorough than I could or would have been...! The information is appreciated certainly by me. No threadjacking here!

[Chris M 406]

Thanks for the release. It's always fantastic to have more stuff from you in my cities. Amazing details in every single building.

[Jack_wilds 550]

like this pack very much

as it has a variety of texture thats good to 'plop' about the town... however your thread showed off -teased, with 2 Hudson Banks versions, which one is in this pack and will the second one be added later? just wondering

Thanks for sharing these... also wondering if my notion of aviation trivia could act as naming inspiration...

Hope that your Christmas was very merry and now a blessed new year to boot...

[madhatter106 3,931]

DragonAnime - thanks.

Jack_wilds - the smaller, shorter version of Hudson Bank is included in the recent pack. I have no plans on adding the second one, I think the lower one looks better. It was also scaled slightly, because it was looking a little too "looming" compared to other stuff when I was reviewing it. And regarding the naming conventions - not "aviation" references, but the readme file will fill you in on the details regarding the naming "theme."

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I must say I enjoy these recent office packs, I've been seeing more of your office BATs popping up in my smaller cities, they are a great competition against repetetive Maxis offices. Your previous shops packs are very handy too.

Can't wait for what else you can concuct in gmax!

[madhatter106 3,931]

Sgt Pepper - thanks, glad you've enjoyed these. Makes it worth all the work/effort when people say they enjoy my stuff...!

Here's a little taste of what I've had on one of the burners for a while. There aren't a lot of Maxis buildings which I really really like, but the smaller CO$$$ office towers like the McAdams Building, Paul Inc., Vikyar Foods, etc. are ones that I never grow tired of. So, these little guys are inspired by those...

Still working out the texturing details, and haven't modeled the entrances on some of them yet. I don't know if they will be CO$$ or CO$$$, but they'll easily fit on a 1x1 lot, which most of their Maxis-inspired counterparts do as well. I want to do a mix of older-looking, as well as more modern ones. They might end up as an office pack all by themselves if there are enough of them...who knows?

[Francis90b 748]

Looking nice so far!

May I ask if some of them would end up being fit for w2w use?

[emperordaniel 1,281]

Those look totally awesome