Making a Library Functional

[simcitynate 134]

Greetings fellow totalitarian regimes,

I've downloaded a few libraries, and though they're advertised as functional libraries, I suspect this isn't the case. When I check the education budget, they all have bus funding, which to me indicates they're functioning as schools. Also, a few Maxis schools I've built have almost no attendance, which I'm assuming is because these supposed "libraries" are accommodating all the students. I'd appreciate any insight into this matter or ideas about how to convert these buildings to actual libraries.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

Libraries are all part of the same education system. That does include bus funding for those lots which have buses. The master slider in the budget knows to only apply the changes to lots which have their own bus slider. Check those libraries. They, themselves should not have a bus option.

Unless someone simply got creative (in a goofy way) with modding, the libraries are likely fine.

[simcitynate 134]

These libraries don't have a bus slider in the query window, and they do appear like actual libraries, from the book statistics to the query sound. They do have a slider in the master education budget though, where I see the Maxis libraries don't have one. Also, I noticed the Main Library is only available with 5 good libraries, and in my current city, I was only offered it after building a fifth Maxis one. Not sure if that was just a coincidence or maybe I lost track of how many libraries I had, but it seemed to confirm my suspicion about the plugins. However, even if they don't count towards getting a Main Library, I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean they're not functioning as libraries in every other way.   

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

Can you send the link or inform the name of one of these libraries so we can check the file?

[simcitynate 134]

Here's one of them: 

 

 

I did an experiment where I built a city with this as the only educational building. The education advisor didn't say anything about a lack of schools as the population reached almost 50,000 and only informed me that the school system was inadequate when the "# of books checked out" exceeded the  "# of books in collection".   

[xxdita 1,097]

That one is modded as a library. Placing five of them in your city will unlock the Maxis Main Library. 

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

If it's appearing an exclusive bus slider to your library you must check if you have some kind of educational mod doing that. I checked the files and as xxdita said it's indeed modded only as a library.

I made a quick test in-game. When you plop the library the bus slider remains at 0 cost, meaning they don't have this characteristic. If you add a school, then it will add the cost. I did the same test with larger schools and also with the Maxis library with the same results. I'll post only these 2 pics because they're all basically the same thing.

 

That was in an empty city tile, but in an ordinary city the results are the same:

Before

 

Some months after plopping the library:

 

Again, if you have this bus slider thing and also you're not receiving warnings about lack of schools, you should check if some sort of educational mod is installed.

[simcitynate 134]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I continued the experiment in the new city with this library and another downloaded one, and when I built a fifth, I was then offered the Main Library. And while these libraries have a bus slider in the master budget, there's no cost. So, it seems everything's working fine here. It's interesting though that the education advisor didn't voice any concern about there being no schools even as the population went over 100,000. I don't know how any education mod could be installed. Also still curious about why the Maxis schools in the other city had almost zero attendance. Anyway, in this more recent city,  I did have 5 good quality libraries of course, so maybe they're considered a worthy substitute for education. Hey, who's to say simkids will learn more in school than they will in a fancy, well-funded library.   

[xxdita 1,097]

18 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Hey, who's to say simkids will learn more in school than they will in a fancy, well-funded library.   

I can be the one to say that. A properly modded library only has an EQ boost of 0.3, vs an elementary or high school's EQ boost of 24, or a private school's EQ boost of 30. 

[simcitynate 134]

Ah ok. It's interesting how well this city seemed to be doing without schools, but I'm going to start building them and monitoring the data. 

[Propfam 2,286]

2 hours ago, xxdita said:

I can be the one to say that. A properly modded library only has an EQ boost of 0.3, vs an elementary or high school's EQ boost of 24, or a private school's EQ boost of 30. 

Libraries only useful for helping the growth of EQ. In my experience, elementary school and library isn't always enough to keep increasing EQ after ~100 EQ. So, I place city college. I don't think the monthly cost is expensive because you only need one (or few) of the college in a city, instead of 5 or more in case of elementary school in large city.

Thanks.

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

7 hours ago, simcitynate said:

Also still curious about why the Maxis schools in the other city had almost zero attendance.

That's cause the average age of the Sims within the school's radius was high enough so there are very few Sim Kids when you peeked. Check the Resident Avg. Age data view around those schools and you will likely see them in the darker green to blue range. Run the city for 100 years checking the school attendance every 5 and you'll see the number go up and down as the average age varies.

 

7 hours ago, simcitynate said:

Hey, who's to say simkids will learn more in school than they will in a fancy, well-funded library.   

I suspect you also have a museum or two and higher than the base life expectancy.

Each time a tract in the game cycles to new Sims the next generation inherits a large percentage of their parent's EQ. If you have a very stable population with high life expectancy, you can get them to a high EQ without schools, colleges, or universities all thanks to the museum in particular, but enhanced by having libraries.

If you are curious, check out The 505 Year Education Experiment.

[simcitynate 134]

If libraries only help with EQ growth and the boost is so low compared to schools, it makes me wonder why they would be worth building. My experience in this recent city with only libraries seems to indicate they're more valuable than than.

Anyway, while we're on the topic of education, another question I had was about if Sims differentiate between education levels. Is it important to build high schools and colleges in big cities, or are they all just recognized as schools? I figure it probably is important, especially since the significance of Sim age and generations has been mentioned, but I'm just looking for confirmation. I know building a university has a unique impact, but it's in the category of rewards as well as education. 

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

21 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Anyway, while we're on the topic of education, another question I had was about if Sims differentiate between education levels.

Depending on what you are asking, you might want to look at @mattb325's post in the above linked thread. (There's a lot more in there than just my initial demonstration.)

 

23 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Is it important to build high schools and colleges in big cities, or are they all just recognized as schools?

Each of the Maxis education facilities are all basically schools in a generic sense. The difference being the amount of EQ imparted to your Sims and at what age levels are they most effective. There are a some different aspects to education. Like how effective they are for various age groups and how quickly the EQ is boosted. If you want the fastest route to the smartest Sims, provide coverage of every education facility for them all. Note: The radius of the College and the University is large enough to cover an entire large tile no matter where you place it. The only reason to have more than one college is if its capacity is exceeded.

[Naomi57 2,985]

10 hours ago, simcitynate said:

If libraries only help with EQ growth and the boost is so low compared to schools, it makes me wonder why they would be worth building. My experience in this recent city with only libraries seems to indicate they're more valuable

Another thing to factor in, is how much population change you have.  If segments of your population are growing and shrinking, growing and shrinking, each growth spurt will be accompanied with a drop in EQ.  New citizens moving to a city start out with low EQ and low health.

Zoning a new residential neighbourhood results in a drop in average EQ, for the same reason.  The new sims have poor education levels at first.  You can see that in the Education Data View.  Sims near the education radius perimeter have lower EQ levels, so placing Libraries near the edges of School radii can help smooth out the EQ bumps, if that's what you want.  Libraries are small and cheap, so they fit neatly into little nooks and crannies.  

If you want mostly R$ factory workers, I wonder if using a combination of Libraries, Colleges and Museums might be better, and not bother with schools at all?  Any thoughts on that, @CorinaMarie?

High Tech and Commercial Offices absolutely require high EQ.  If most of the nearby jobs are High Tech and Office jobs, higher EQ levels improve employment levels.  I've said it before ... unemployed sims pay no taxes.  

While 0.3 for a Library vs 24.0 High School makes it look like libraries are a losing proposition for Education Quotient Boost, the Age Effectiveness changes that equation considerably.

https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Large_High_School

https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Local_Branch_Library

https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Civic_Buildings

Education Buildings	City Museum • Elementary School • High School • Large Elementary School • Large High School • Local Branch Library • Major Art Museum • Main Library • Opera House • Private School • University

 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I figure you need to multiply the Education Quotient Boost by the Age Effectiveness, soooo ...

• 40 years = 30.0 x 0.3 = 9 for Library
• 40 years = 5.0 x 24 = 120 for High School

... but Library applies across all age ranges, soooo ...

• 30 years = 30.0 x 0.3 = 9 for Library
• 30 years = 0.5 x 25 = 12.5 for High School
   
• 20 years = 30.0 x 0.3 = 9 for Library
• 20 years = 0.0 x 25 = 0 for High School

Is that how it works?

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

11 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

If you want mostly R$ factory workers, I wonder if using a combination of Libraries, Colleges and Museums might be better, and not bother with schools at all?  Any thoughts on that, @CorinaMarie?

I believe a lot of the educational scenarios really depend on how fast one wants the Sim's EQ to improve. With a stable population and running time, a single College will create 200 EQ across the board after a few generations. As you mentioned, if the population is fluctuating or new homes are being grown then that'll have a negative impact the average EQ.

Since I play a rural themed region based semi-perpetually around 1876ish, I do my education completely different than most anyone (or everyone) else. I like to get a city to be in the 100ish range while I'm developing at a slow pace. With the Magic Museum trick they can then get smarter over time after I finished the zoning and I'm busy with other tweaks like diagonal filler placements.

[twalsh102 1,601]

Everyone should hopefully understand that each type of Education facility asserts its EQ boost over a different range of Ages. Also understand that "Age" here refers to Age of a Sim household, and not Ages for individual Sims. 

There is a degradation factor of 0.2 EQ / month.  So placing any Education Facility with a boost that affects all Ages, and exceeds the EQ degradation factor will cause all Sim households within its radius of effectiveness to eventually reach an EQ level where the Sims want to jump up in wealth level and seek better jobs.  So using Libraries and Museums as your only educational Facilities will certainly keep your Sims at a lower wealth level for a longer period of time.  If you want to maintain a steady population of low-wealth workers "forever", you almost need to keep certain residential areas of your city totally devoid of any educational facilities.  Your population fairly soon is reduced to the level of simpering morons, your mayor rating takes a hit, and the Education Advisor gets very irate, but you have a steady supply of low-wealth workers.

@Naomi57, I haven't seen anything anywhere that would prove or disprove whether your calculations are equate to what the game does, but they certainly make as much sense as anything else.  But you do illustrate the main point that while (almost) all schools have a narrow range of Age effectiveness, Museums and Libraries will increase the EQ of all Sims

[infamousjbe 592]

11 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

If you want to maintain a steady population of low-wealth workers "forever", you almost need to keep certain residential areas of your city totally devoid of any educational facilities. 

I just lock them all down with historical with all the resources available.  Is there any know negative effect to this technique?  The only thing I've felt so far is that it almost achieves a balance in the city that slows the growth but hasn't stopped growing. Wouldn't the R$ that get educated still want to move up an out to a respective location rather than upgrading it's current location? My mind theorizes that one large R$ tenant locked in historical could slowly feed R$$ homes?

 

[xxdita 1,097]

EQ can be at 200 and you'll still have R$ living in the city. Even with high desirability, you'll have R$. In fact, you will have R$ unless you are actively trying to drive them out, by raising their taxes. 

[simcitynate 134]

Sorry to bring this topic up again, but is it possible for library staff to go on strike?

[xxdita 1,097]

7 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Sorry to bring this topic up again, but is it possible for library staff to go on strike?

Not if it's properly made. 

Libraries should not have the Strikable Education Occupant Group (0x00001a03)

[simcitynate 134]

Ok. I had a strike at this library, with my advisor referring to it as a school, so I guess there must be something wrong with this one. 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2222  

[xxdita 1,097]

That isn't modded as a strikable education building. 

[simcitynate 134]

That's strange. I reduced funding again just to make sure, and I'm quite certain they're striking at this building.

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

2 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

That's strange. I reduced funding again just to make sure, and I'm quite certain they're striking at this building.

Do you happen to have any other school(s) very close by? It they go on strike, the picketing Sims can spill over onto other lots.

I've checked inside the file and it does not have the OccupantGroups 0x00001A03 (Building: Strikable Education). I also plopped it in a test city (population 4000ish), cut the funding to zero, and ran time on high speed. The books checked out were 1290 with none available and there never was a strike.

Maybe you could post a picture here showing the strike you see?

[simcitynate 134]

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Do you happen to have any other school(s) very close by? It they go on strike, the picketing Sims can spill over onto other lots.

I've checked inside the file and it does not have the OccupantGroups 0x00001A03 (Building: Strikable Education). I also plopped it in a test city (population 4000ish), cut the funding to zero, and ran time on high speed. The books checked out were 1290 with none available and there never was a strike.

Maybe you could post a picture here showing the strike you see?

This is fairly isolated as an educational building. There is a hospital nearby that's a little over capacity, but it's not striking. After testing again with a funding cut, the strike begins at the library, and the link provided by the advisor takes me right to the library. The stats say there's about 50,000 books checked out and about 1/5th of that in the collection. The city size is around 300,000.

[CorinaMarie 29,563]

2 hours ago, simcitynate said:

After testing again with a funding cut, the strike begins at the library, and the link provided by the advisor takes me right to the library.

That is really bizarre. I wonder if something in the master Simulator settings could cause this?

[xxdita 1,097]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

That is really bizarre. I wonder if something in the master Simulator settings could cause this?

The Aura Simulator can control strikes, but that's connected to Mayor Rating. I've never heard of an Education Simulator or any other simulators that effect strikes. 

 

3 hours ago, simcitynate said:

This is fairly isolated as an educational building. There is a hospital nearby that's a little over capacity, but it's not striking. After testing again with a funding cut, the strike begins at the library, and the link provided by the advisor takes me right to the library. The stats say there's about 50,000 books checked out and about 1/5th of that in the collection. The city size is around 300,000.

Look at the file in Reader or PIMX. There should only be two Occupant Groups, Building:Civic, and Education:Library (0x00001005,0x00001505). Have you altered the file somehow? 

[simcitynate 134]

Ahh ok, I did make some changes to cost, radius and capacity with Leprop. I didn't think this would have any other effect, but comparing my file to the original library, I now see there's an extra line: Education Coverage - School Coverage. Is this probably what did it?   

[xxdita 1,097]

31 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Ahh ok, I did make some changes to cost, radius and capacity with Leprop. I didn't think this would have any other effect, but comparing my file to the original library, I now see there's an extra line: Education Coverage - School Coverage. Is this probably what did it?   

It's impossible to know what other changes LEProp has made without viewing the file in Reader, PIMX, or DataNode. But it seems like the Strikable Education OG has been added. 

There's really no way to know what has been done to the file without being able to check it out myself.