Making a Library Functional

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

11 hours ago, simcitynate said:

The stats say there's about 50,000 books checked out and about 1/5th of that in the collection.

Well, there's an easy workaround: Raise funding. If this were the Maxis main library, you could cover 50,000 books with a pittance per month (something like $15). Alternatively, you can build a main lib somewhere in the city, and it will shoulder most of your library load so that your lesser libs can operate on shoestrings.

[simcitynate 134]

8 hours ago, xxdita said:

It's impossible to know what other changes LEProp has made without viewing the file in Reader, PIMX, or DataNode. But it seems like the Strikable Education OG has been added. 

There's really no way to know what has been done to the file without being able to check it out myself. 

Alright, I think I might just do a little more testing with Leprop. If that doesn't clear things up then I'll try out one of those programs. 

[simcitynate 134]

3 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Well, there's an easy workaround: Raise funding. If this were the Maxis main library, you could cover 50,000 books with a pittance per month (something like $15). Alternatively, you can build a main lib somewhere in the city, and it will shoulder most of your library load so that your lesser libs can operate on shoestrings.

Ok thanks, but just to be clear, I set the funding that low to induce a strike for testing purposes. I shared those statistics just in case they might be useful. I'm happy to report that funding has been restored and those librarians are back to being their quiet selves.  

[xxdita 1,097]

You should be careful when altering the funding of any civic lots you already have placed in your cities. This can lead to slider bugs that will haunt you. 

[simcitynate 134]

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

You should be careful when altering the funding of any civic lots you already have placed in your cities. This can lead to slider bugs that will haunt you. 

Do you mean making changes to dat files of buildings you've already built in a city? If so, yeah, I found that out the hard way when I first started using Leprop last year.

[twalsh102 1,601]

Easiest way to check:

Open the file in Reader; click on the Building Exemplar; find the Occupant Groups property.

If it's still functioning as a Library, there should be only two values:  Civic and Library.

The problem with using programs like LeProp to make changes such as these, is that they are making changes to the actual Building Exemplar that you don't immediately see. These programs have their own logic, so they may not be making changes the way you think they may be. I suspect that when you  changed school-related properties, LeProp may have decided you wanted to change the library to a school. At the very least I would guess that you will find a new value added to Occupant Groups -  "Strikeable Education." I also suspect it may have changed the Occupant Group value "Library" to "School."

The "Education Coverage" entry is a value of the Property "Budget Item Department" related to schools, not libraries.  The same thing with the entry "School Coverage", which is a value of the property "Budget Item Purpose."

[twalsh102 1,601]

Reference the tools mentioned by @xxdita (and for your reference depending on what you want to do):

While you can view properties in all these tools, DataNode is an analysis tool only - it shows you values in plain English; PIM-X will allow you to edit only a small subset of properties - it likewise shows most values in plain English; Reader is the only one that allows you to change anything (hence it can be dangerous in the hands of the novice user if not careful (as far as causing a variety of undesirable/unintended results), and unfortunately you have to deal with HEX for most values). Unfortunately, as shown by your experience here, LeProp may show you the values of properties, but doesn't show you the end result in the Building Exemplar itself.

[Propfam 2,286]

On 30/4/2020 at 3:10 AM, xxdita said:

EQ can be at 200 and you'll still have R$ living in the city. Even with high desirability, you'll have R$. In fact, you will have R$ unless you are actively trying to drive them out, by raising their taxes. 

Or, using parks or just bulldozing the buildings, rezone if needed, and grow higher-wealth residentials. This process in my experience isn't always straightforward, so rinse and repeat the process until you get R$$ or R$$$.

Sorry if I reply late. Thanks.

[xxdita 1,097]

9 hours ago, chfzdn said:

Or, using parks or just bulldozing the buildings, rezone if needed, and grow higher-wealth residentials. This process in my experience isn't always straightforward, so rinse and repeat the process until you get R$$ or R$$$.

Sorry if I reply late. Thanks.

Park Effect is a factor in increasing desirability. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say. 

The math is fairly straightforward, and the variables can all be controlled to the extent that RNG isn't a factor. It's just a matter of understanding the underlying maths at work, all of which has been extremely well documented through the years. 

[Propfam 2,286]

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

Park Effect is a factor in increasing desirability. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say. 

The math is fairly straightforward, and the variables can all be controlled to the extent that RNG isn't a factor. It's just a matter of understanding the underlying maths at work, all of which has been extremely well documented through the years. 

I mean artificial aura effect. You can also use trees. What I mean with not straightforward isn't the math, but the building, in my experience. For instance, I have some difficulty growing Pane View Condos. So, I need to use trees to artificially add aura effect and it's not guaranted to grow the building in the first try. After couple times, I finally get the condos. Your milage may vary depending on factors like population etc.

Hope can clear things up. Thanks.

[simcitynate 134]

So I'm attempting to familiarize myself with SC4 PIM, but I'd like to make sure I installed the updates correctly. Was I supposed to drag them into Program Files (x86) > SC4PIM and let them overwrite the existing files?

It seems a bit overwhelming right now tbh, considering the simple mods to existing buildings I'm interested in making. I'm attempting to make a ploppable lot with the library (I'm assuming this is essentially what I was doing with Leprop), but when I attempt to drag the file over to the ploppable section, as per the user guide instructions, I get this key error message:

[xxdita 1,097]

7 hours ago, simcitynate said:

So I'm attempting to familiarize myself with SC4 PIM, but I'd like to make sure I installed the updates correctly. Was I supposed to drag them into Program Files (x86) > SC4PIM and let them overwrite the existing files?

It seems a bit overwhelming right now tbh, considering the simple mods to existing buildings I'm interested in making. I'm attempting to make a ploppable lot with the library (I'm assuming this is essentially what I was doing with Leprop), but when I attempt to drag the file over to the ploppable section, as per the user guide instructions, I get this key error message:

You need to drag the model file to the category on the left to create a new building desc. You're trying to drag over the existing desc. 

[simcitynate 134]

Ok, how do I find the model file? Every library version I see says "Lot". Just to be clear about what I'm trying to do, I'd just like to edit the values of an existing building. Can I just go ahead and click "make a ploppable lot using this building"? I tried it out and can see files were created in Plug ins, but nothing that says "Loose Desc".  

[twalsh102 1,601]

If I might make a suggestion - Since you already have a ploppable lot for Chapman Library (I'm not aware of ANY Civic buildings that are growable), if all you're going to do is change the values for a few properties, it might be "easier" to do so using Reader. Depending on which values you're trying to change, it might not even be possible using PIM-X (as I stated previously, not all Properties are editable in PIM-X). In fact, based on your previous Posts, PIM-X will not allow you to edit any of the properties you've previously mentioned. You will likely have to deal with HEX with Reader, but there are converters available (to include the Calculator in Windows) that make that easy.

Just so you are aware, PIM-X was designed to make buildings compatible with CAM. It uses different algorithms to determine the initial values for the various Building Exemplar properties. So it's entirely feasible that you could end up with values for many properties that are different than the default Maxis values. Given that your goal is consistency (using Maxis values) between like buildings, PIM-X is probably not the proper tool in this case.

[xxdita 1,097]

15 hours ago, simcitynate said:

Ok, how do I find the model file? Every library version I see says "Lot". Just to be clear about what I'm trying to do, I'd just like to edit the values of an existing building. Can I just go ahead and click "make a ploppable lot using this building"? I tried it out and can see files were created in Plug ins, but nothing that says "Loose Desc".  

In the left pane, the very top, you should see Standard Models. Click that and PIMX will show all of the models in the folders you have loaded. But you really should take the time to read the guide I linked, as it does walk you through the entire process. It is highly recommended that you only load the folders with content you want to work with. 

If you're looking at Libraries, then you are in the Buildings area. This area shows existing building descs. You can adjust these by right clicking and "recomputing as". When prompted, enter a suitable filling degree. Now, for files designed for personal use, you can "cheat" and use a much higher filling degree than a building should have. This will keep all of the building's stats in line though, so more capacity will come at a greater cost. 

But it would likely be preferable to use Reader so that you can alter only the stats you want to change. 

[simcitynate 134]

I found the Reader on simtropolis, but I noticed someone in the comments section posted a link for an updated version at sc4devotion. I of course welcome any recommendations. Also, is there a particular guide I should use? I came across one from quite a while ago, but I'd just like to know I'm going by a version that's fully up to date. 

[CorinaMarie 29,574]

Use iLive - Reader 0.9.3. There's instructions for use in The Reader, Beginners Guide.

The updated v1.5.4 on Devotion does have some uses for advanced editing, but it's also a wee bit unstable. In some cases it will corrupt the data files. For now, hold off from using that version.

[Cyclone Boom 16,852]

I personally recommend the 0.9.3 version also which Cori linked above.

The 1.5.4 version has a known memory bug by where saving can cause the data to be written to file in an invalid way. This often happens when saving multiple times having opened the program. A workaround would be to close and re-open 1.5.4 each time after saving, but this might be inconvenient and easily overlooked. It does have more powerful editing ability for certain things like UI panels, and also can read additional properties including NKO and others.

Even though 0.9.3 is older, it is very much the more stable choice and version I use most often.

[xxdita 1,097]

On 5/19/2020 at 2:32 AM, twalsh102 said:

Just so you are aware, PIM-X was designed to make buildings compatible with CAM. It uses different algorithms to determine the initial values for the various Building Exemplar properties. So it's entirely feasible that you could end up with values for many properties that are different than the default Maxis values. Given that your goal is consistency (using Maxis values) between like buildings, PIM-X is probably not the proper tool in this case.

Ok, this is just not quite accurate. 

There is generally little difference between a building desc created using Maxis tools and one made with the same model using PIMX and the default filling degree of 0.5. In fact, the main differences you'll find will be minor things such as power/water consumption, pollution outputs, etc. 

The filling degree simply allows greater accuracy of a building's stats, should the model take up more or less than 50% of its LOD. Perhaps the model is a W2W that consumes the entire LOD box. Or perhaps it has a large base but a 60ft antenna at the top. You can use the filling degree to compensate for any scenario. 

In fact, CAM has very little to do with the building desc in this sense. CAM simply introduces additional lot growth stages. For lot creation, PIMX is designed for CAM, yes. 

But that only applies to growables. For civic buildings, such as a library, growth stage isn't a factor. There is no such thing as a CAM library. There are civics better suited for cities with larger populations, just as there are civics better suited for more rural towns. The rural varieties generally have manually adjusted stats, to provide larger coverage areas. Civics intended for use in a metropolis tend to be larger buildings to start with, so PIMX stats are quite suitable. 

[twalsh102 1,601]

My point was that buildings created with the Maxis LE and the same building with stats computed (or recomputed) using PIM-X can have very different values.  Since @simcitynate 's goal is to have custom content have similar values (for the more important stats) to Maxis buildings of the same type and similar size, I felt this point was salient.

So, my point (using the values @simcitynate was interested in changing - not exactly minor things) :

Original Maxis values for Maxis Main City Library
School Coverage Radius:  5,800 tiles
School Student Capacity:  400,000
Monthly Cost:  $210/month

PIM-X recomputed values for Maxis Main City Library (using default fill of 0.5)
School Coverage Radius:  3,200 tiles
School Student Capacity:  115,000
Monthly Cost:  $600/month

Original Values for Modern Central Library (created 2004)
School Coverage Radius:  5,800 tiles
School Student Capacity:  400,000
Monthly Cost:  $210/month

PIM-X recomputed values for Modern Central Library (using default fill of 0.5)
School Coverage Radius:  1,200 tiles
School Student Capacity:  10,000
Monthly Cost:  $600/month

Notice the same original values for two very different buildings.  Changing the filling values to something more accurate than 0.5 could change the recomputed values even more.

Given his goal, I would say these are significant differences.

 

[xxdita 1,097]

If a smaller building has the same stats as a larger one, then it's likely that the stats were manually copied over in Reader. Meaning no formula was followed at all for the final release of the file. This was quite common before the release of PIMX, as was using whatever stats looked good. 

I haven't seen @simcitynate say what his actual goal was in remodding the building. 

Editing the properties manually in Reader is a bit more difficult and requires knowing which properties to change exactly, as well as which properties have to match one another. Adjusting the filling degree up or down in PIMX should allow the goal to be achieved, while maintaining the balance of all stats. 

One note about the radius: it is written in km, not tiles. Divide by 16 to get the coverage in tiles. 

[simcitynate 134]

Before Reader opens, I get the message shown below. I assume this will prevent me from being able to use it properly? 

[Cyclone Boom 16,852]

58 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

Before Reader opens, I get the message shown below. I assume this will prevent me from being able to use it properly? 

This error means how Reader is unable to load the language (locale) file which contains LTEXT entries for the naming of UI elements.

One likely cause is when trying to use Reader while the game is running, and likewise if attempting to open any of the SimCity_x.dat files (where x is the number ranging from 1-5). This is because Windows often locks down the files which are used by another application, meaning they're unable to be read and hence the error as shown. The same also applies for Plugins too if trying to open them during the time SC4 is currently loaded.

Another thing worth checking is to ensure the path to the locale file is correct, and also the SC4 installation folder (especially since you've got the Steam game).

I notice a double backslash (\\) in your path there. It might be worth clicking Option in the navigation at the top, then Options which is where the location of the data files is set. Make any changes as needed to set correct paths, click the OK button at the bottom, then restart Reader and the changes will be applied.

[simcitynate 134]

Thanks a lot. I deleted the "EnglishUS" part and now the message doesn't pop up.

[simcitynate 134]

As for learning how to use Reader, I came across "Modding Made Easy: A Beginner's Guide", but as you know it deals with modding Maxis files, whereas I'm trying to change files in plug ins. I'm trying to do as much research as I can on my own, but while I appear to have your attention, I thought I could save some time by asking about the easiest way to mod the libraries I've posted here. I clicked on the "Tweaker" section and it looks like it would do the job. I wouldn't mind some confirmation that it's safe to proceed though. 

[CorinaMarie 29,574]

33 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

I came across "Modding Made Easy: A Beginner's Guide", but as you know it deals with modding Maxis files, whereas I'm trying to change files in plug ins.

Here's a good starting place: The Reader, Beginners Guide

 

35 minutes ago, simcitynate said:

I clicked on the "Tweaker" section and it looks like it would do the job. I wouldn't mind some confirmation that it's safe to proceed though. 

That certainly looks interesting. Until now, I'd never clicked that button. Instead, I've edited the exemplars directly.

[simcitynate 134]

8 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

That certainly looks interesting. Until now, I'd never clicked that button. Instead, I've edited the exemplars directly.

It most certainly does. According to the guide, "This Tweaker allows for ‘easier’ editing of some items", which sounds well-suited to my present situation. While I hope to master the entire Reader eventually, I thought it would be nice to skip ahead to accomplishing my more immediate goals. 

[simcitynate 134]

And of course I spoke too soon, as the Tweaker has no option to edit the coverage radius. Looks like I'll just have to learn the more traditional method. Oh well, I feel like I've made great strides here. Thanks again to all. 

[xxdita 1,097]

1 hour ago, simcitynate said:

And of course I spoke too soon, as the Tweaker has no option to edit the coverage radius. Looks like I'll just have to learn the more traditional method. Oh well, I feel like I've made great strides here. Thanks again to all. 

If you feel like you need a bit more guidance, I am available on the SC4D Discord channel quite regularly. That might be easier. 

[simcitynate 134]

Having looked at several exemplars now, there's a couple things I'm curious about. I've noticed that only some have an option for "Item Name" and Item Description". I suppose a workaround is to use Tweaker, which offers both options for every building. However, when I deleted the description, the buildings disappeared from the game. I was able to restore them by going back to Tweaker and adding one word. Anyone know what this is all about?