SC4 for Mac 64-bit

[c4bl3fl4m3 405]

22 hours ago, xxdita said:

I'll also tag @c4bl3fl4m3 so that he is also aware of the issue

I use "they", not he. Thanks! 

16 hours ago, xxdita said:

While I certainly won't be taking on the task of the entire STEX

None of us feel like we have to do the entire STEX. (At least I don't.) If I come across files that need fixing, I fix them. If I decide to do a project (like recently I've been going through HKABT files for my own personal use and so have been tagging them HKABT), sometimes I'll do a whole bunch at once. And if someone requests I fix something, I'd be likely to fix it. (Haven't started that project for those parks that are like 20 files long, though.)

[c4bl3fl4m3 405]

22 hours ago, xxdita said:

From everything I've read, these lots will also cause problems for MAC 32bit SC4, but I don't know how severe. 

I'm not sure I understand all of this correctly, but I can say I definitely have at least one of those @spa files (if not both; I'm a big fan of Spa's work and have most of it DLed and have used it since the early 2010s) and I don't have any problems coming from it, at least not as far as I know. I mean, I have some weird bugs, but I think it's more related to the Mac version being buggy and me needing to reinstall it. (Plus they've escalated lately and as mentioned, I've had the Spa files since 2010.)

What kinds of bugs would it cause?

[xxdita 1,097]

4 minutes ago, c4bl3fl4m3 said:

I'm not sure I understand all of this correctly, but I can say I definitely have at least one of those @spa files (if not both; I'm a big fan of Spa's work and have most of it DLed and have used it since the early 2010s) and I don't have any problems coming from it, at least not as far as I know. I mean, I have some weird bugs, but I think it's more related to the Mac version being buggy and me needing to reinstall it. (Plus they've escalated lately and as mentioned, I've had the Spa files since 2010.)

What kinds of bugs would it cause?

I have no way to test such a thing, so I can only say what I've read in various threads on the issue. 

Does the term beachballing mean anything to you? 

[c4bl3fl4m3 405]

On 2/23/2020 at 7:24 PM, xxdita said:

Does the term beachballing mean anything to you? 

Absolutely. The Windows exact equivalent would be where the cursor turns into the hourglass and just keeps turning over and over but nothing happens. Instead, we have a colorful wheel that spins round (and looks like a beachball, hence the term).

[xxdita 1,097]

Right. So these lots have been causing beachballing on 32bit Aspyr versions and now CTD's on the 64bit version. 

So downloading the updated versions should improve performance for you as well. Especially if you've noticed beachballing of any sort. 

[Wiimeiser 444]

On 20/02/2020 at 10:28 PM, Tarkus said:

As of yesterday, the App Store version of SimCity 4: Deluxe Edition is now 64-bit, per Aspyr's page .  It doesn't look like the Steam version has been, however, as it's listed under "planned 64-bit updates".  Will be curious to see how it performs.

-Tarkus

No news on the GOG version I assume?

Quote

Apparently, the Aspyr port has a bug that limits the maximum number of plugin files, which seems to be significantly reduced if an internet connection is not available. It makes the game crash every time! This issue can be mitigated by datpacking the plugins folder using SC4DatPacker (via Wine) or JDatPacker [link].

Quote

significantly reduced if an internet connection is not available

Why would this be? Significant leftover code for a planned Steam Workshop-style interface? Even though the Workshop didn't exist then? Such ambition... Oh, Andrew Wilson Fisk, Sr., what have you wrought?

EDIT: It appears the diagonal streets hack is breaking down... It always bugged me that streets are the only network that can't be dragged diagonally... Was this done to prevent issues with zoning, or because (sub)urban California has no curved roads except for freeways? Whatever the reason they may be coded oddly if just converting to 64-bit is causing diagonals to break down, which throws a wrench in the "tunnel editing" theory...

[simmaster07 1,220]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:10 AM, xxdita said:

No word on the Steam version yet. "Sooooooon". 

I was disappointed about this for the past couple of days and then I logged into my Mac today and saw I had an App Store version of the game anyway. 🤦‍♂️

Anyway now I'm curious, roughly how many plugins does it take to get the game to crash?

[xxdita 1,097]

28 minutes ago, simmaster07 said:

I was disappointed about this for the past couple of days and then I logged into my Mac today and saw I had an App Store version of the game anyway. 🤦‍♂️

Anyway now I'm curious, roughly how many plugins does it take to get the game to crash?

Because of sheer quantity? I have no idea. That may be something @c4bl3fl4m3 can answer. 

But it only takes 1 lot with the Slope properties' Float32's set with a Rep=1 to cause CTD, from what's been reported. 

 

[mmprog 104]

Fixed the Float32 with Rep=1 problem in all of my plugin files that I knew were causing a CTD (downloaded the fixed St Pauls file, and fixed Vogue + BSC Functional Seaports + Appalachian Terrain mod + NAM HSR stations myself; my fixed files are attached below). Mixed results:

The good news that the 64-bit game does not immediately CTD when I try to load any city tile. I can play the game normally, build/save/load cities with significant content, and it seems quite stable. Verified that I can plop the fixed lots, the AT mod looks good, etc.

The bad news is that if I try to play a large region been working on, it will still CTD when opening most existing cities. My first thought it was cities that have the affected lots in them and I would need to bulldoze those lots before opening the city in the 64-bit game, but unfortunately that's not the case. I haven't determined any pattern to which cities cause a CTD. The crash itself looks identical to the ones we all reported earlier in this thread. Same stack trace. I'll continue to investigate.

Regarding the Appalachian Terrain Mod: I noticed this caused a CTD. I went hunting through its files for Float32 values with Rep=1, and found a single offending value: TemperatureRangeFactor. Note that the Mac version of the AT mod includes 32 different controller files, you choose a single file with the combination of effects that you desire. I updated all 32 files, but I only tested the one that I actively use, which is LK_AppalachianTerrain_Snow_Coast.dat.

 

BSC Functional Seaports mmprog fix.zip

LK_AppalachianTerrain_MAC mmprog fix.zip

NAM stations mmprog fix.zip

(Vogue building zip file removed; it's already been updated on the LEX)

 

[xxdita 1,097]

I have already updated the Vogue building on the LEX, so that can be removed. @Tarkus will probably be interested in the NAM lots.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty much out of commission for the moment. Immunotherapy treatments kick my ass, but thankfully those are behind me now. 

What was the issue with BSC Seaports exactly? Was it in the controller file or some of the lots? Knowing this may help lead to the root cause of the issue, ie which program being used is causing the problems. 

[rsc204 21,808]

5 hours ago, xxdita said:

Knowing this may help lead to the root cause of the issue, ie which program being used is causing the problems. 

I’m not so sure this is really going to help. The code for PIM-X is lost and it’s developer long since gone from the community. So any issues with DAT-Packer too are unlikely to be something we can get patched. Outside of those, if it comes from the Original LE / PIM by Maxis, those aren’t seeing updates either. SC4 Tools (SFBT) is not being updated and is really the source of the Rep 1 issue for TE lots. So whilst identifying the program that introduces the problem or invalid values helps our understanding, it’s unlikely we’ll ever be able to prevent whatever behaviour causes it.

Reader probably doesn’t apply in this context, since manual edits are in the hands of the modder making them.

[mmprog 104]

5 hours ago, xxdita said:

have already updated the Vogue building on the LEX

Ah I only checked the STEX and neglected to look at the LEX, so I missed your update. Thanks for posting it

5 hours ago, xxdita said:

What was the issue with BSC Seaports exactly?

The problem was in "BSC Functional Seaports, Version 3.1.dat", which I guess is the controller file? Among the dozens of LotConfiguration exemplars in that file, exactly one of them had some slope configs with Rep=1: "PLOP 10x8 Inland General Port SG Stage 2".

[xxdita 1,097]

1 hour ago, mmprog said:

Ah I only checked the STEX and neglected to look at the LEX, so I missed your update. Thanks for posting it

You gave me the link from the LEX. I don't remember if I even looked for the file on the STEX. 

1 hour ago, mmprog said:

The problem was in "BSC Functional Seaports, Version 3.1.dat", which I guess is the controller file? Among the dozens of LotConfiguration exemplars in that file, exactly one of them had some slope configs with Rep=1: "PLOP 10x8 Inland General Port SG Stage 2".

Ok. I believe that's one of the disabled lots. And that is one file that will need to be in a proper installer. Thanks for catching it. I will update the file on the LEX as soon as possible. 

[xxdita 1,097]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I’m not so sure this is really going to help. The code for PIM-X is lost and it’s developer long since gone from the community. So any issues with DAT-Packer too are unlikely to be something we can get patched. Outside of those, if it comes from the Original LE / PIM by Maxis, those aren’t seeing updates either. SC4 Tools (SFBT) is not being updated and is really the source of the Rep 1 issue for TE lots. So whilst identifying the program that introduces the problem or invalid values helps our understanding, it’s unlikely we’ll ever be able to prevent whatever behaviour causes it.

Reader probably doesn’t apply in this context, since manual edits are in the hands of the modder making them.

I find it hard to believe that any content creators active today would want their works to be the cause of an easily avoidable CTD for anyone that uses them. As such, knowing which tool causes the issue will let them know which files they need to doublecheck before uploading. 

Some updates to existing tools will not require the source code or any knowledge of the inner workings of the program itself. It's too early to say, since we don't know what tool(s) may cause this. I'll be optimistic on that front. 

As of now, I can't find a pattern, but I have only looked into 4 lots total so far. I know lot configurations for corners by heart, so I have never needed a specialized program for that. 

I believe that we have lucked out that the issue has been contained to such a small (but apprently growing) nunber of files. It seems peculiar to me that only stage 2 of the SG seaport would be affected, just as I find it peculiar that for spa's lots, only one file out of 3 in each upload is affected. 

@mmprog can you do me a favor and check the Enabler file for the SG Seaport? The installer would have likely put it in your docs/SC4/LEX Downloads/X-ports folder. 

 

[mmprog 104]

7 minutes ago, xxdita said:

can you do me a favor and check the Enabler file for the SG Seaport?

Turns out this was one of seaport enabler files I removed from my Plugins folder to trim down my game menus. Anyway, attached is a screen shot of what the "v3_Enable Inland General Port, SG Canals.dat" file looks like (I wasn't sure what specific thing you were interested in with this file).

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

6 hours ago, xxdita said:

I find it hard to believe that any content creators active today would want their works to be the cause of an easily avoidable CTD for anyone that uses them.

I see nothing in @rsc204's post which states (or even implies) he believes there are content creators with this belief.

 

6 hours ago, xxdita said:

As such, knowing which tool causes the issue will let them know which files they need to doublecheck before uploading. 

Yes, knowing which tool(s) cause the issue will at least allow peeps to become aware of what does need checked.

 

6 hours ago, xxdita said:

Some updates to existing tools will not require the source code or any knowledge of the inner workings of the program itself.

Sounds exciting and ingenious. I will be eagerly following to see how this will be accomplished (when it's no longer too early to say).

[Wiimeiser 444]

So it appears some obscure game scripts were broken in the conversion...

[xxdita 1,097]

8 hours ago, mmprog said:

Turns out this was one of seaport enabler files I removed from my Plugins folder to trim down my game menus. Anyway, attached is a screen shot of what the "v3_Enable Inland General Port, SG Canals.dat" file looks like (I wasn't sure what specific thing you were interested in with this file).

I'm stuck on my phone for at least another day, so I couldn't check for myself. Just wanted to make sure there were no issues with the enabler for the file in question. Too many chemicals in my system to remember the exact details of the seaport files. 

Thanks for checking it out for me. And thank you for your help on this matter as a whole. 

[xxdita 1,097]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I see nothing in @rsc204's post which states (or even implies) he believes there are content creators with this belief.

This would imply some sort of accusation of such on my part where there was none. You'll find I'm not so subtle on a good day, and even less so with Rituxan running through my veins. 

That said, I am trying to help people with fairly serious issues involving their new or newly updated game on an OS I have no access to of my own. Ideas I offer may not lead to any solutions in the end, but I don't see anyone else coming up with anything better yet. 

So maybe we could do without the criticisms and such? 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

So maybe we could do without the criticisms and such? 

1. You quoted @rsc204 where he stated reasons why it might be very difficult to correct any of the existing tools.
2. You then reply to that as being incredulous for how no creator would want to make bad content.
3. Putting those together one after another and yes, it certainly does show you implying that to be Robin's point.

This will most certainly be brought to your attention when you appear to be undermining the integrity of another member in this way. By your recent reply, I presume that wasn't your intention. It is simply how it comes across to other peeps.

So, now back to the Mac issues you are indeed working to help resolve.

[TimodeJ 3]

Hey all, first off: Thanks for all the work you guys are doing for us MacOS users. After using your fixed NAM and Apalachian files the mods are working again. 

I think I found another plugin causing a CTD since updating to 64bit: 

 

I hope you can fix this (or the tool that's causing this.  )

Ninja-edit:

I forgot to mention: Not a CTD, but since the update "The HD StarBackground Mod (v1.0)" by dobdriver isn't working anymore. As far as I know it's not hosted here, but I thought you'd still like to know.

 

Midnight edit:

I found another mod that causes a CTD. "CP_Vol01 as Seasonal Flora (v1.0)" by Lowkee33 hosted on the LEX.

[xxdita 1,097]

8 hours ago, TimodeJ said:

Hey all, first off: Thanks for all the work you guys are doing for us MacOS users. After using your fixed NAM and Apalachian files the mods are working again. 

I think I found another plugin causing a CTD since updating to 64bit: 

 

I hope you can fix this (or the tool that's causing this.  )

Ninja-edit:

I forgot to mention: Not a CTD, but since the update "The HD StarBackground Mod (v1.0)" by dobdriver isn't working anymore. As far as I know it's not hosted here, but I thought you'd still like to know.

 

Midnight edit:

I found another mod that causes a CTD. "CP_Vol01 as Seasonal Flora (v1.0)" by Lowkee33 hosted on the LEX.

The @Simmer2 file has MAC station issues as well. So I'll give him the chance to correct these issues. 

Unfortunately, I have no way of testing MAC compatibility and I have found no information concerning issues with flora mods to help pinpoint the problem.  There are 11 total dats included in Lowkee33's flora set. Do they all CTD, or is it one specific file? Do you have a flora replacement mod that is working, so I can compare the two?

[TimodeJ 3]

14 hours ago, xxdita said:

The @Simmer2 file has MAC station issues as well. So I'll give him the chance to correct these issues. 

Unfortunately, I have no way of testing MAC compatibility and I have found no information concerning issues with flora mods to help pinpoint the problem.  There are 11 total dats included in Lowkee33's flora set. Do they all CTD, or is it one specific file? Do you have a flora replacement mod that is working, so I can compare the two?

The culprit in Lowkee33's flora set appears to be "LK_CPVol01_3Season_SmallShrubs.dat"

The flora mods I'm using are T Wrecks's "Maxis Tree HD Replacement Mod" with both the bonus packs

And I've also got Pegasus's MTP god mode tree mod in there, although that might just be a dependency (unsure about that).

Edit:

I can't get ERW L2 to work, only L1. When I scroll through the starter pieces with tab, the level two starter won't show up.
I reinstalled NAM to be sure, but it doesn't show. Now I can't quite remember if it worked before the update, and so, if this is related to a 64bit issue, but I thought it might. Perhaps someone could verify this?

 

[xxdita 1,097]

I can't see any notable differences between the small shrubs dat and any others in the Lowkee set. 

[Wiimeiser 444]

Maybe it's the IIDs that are bugging out? That's my best guess...

[xxdita 1,097]

I can confirm it works on Win10 GOG version. 

I can't rule out anything, as MAC SC4 has many issues Windows doesn't. But I think if there were IID issues, that would show up for me as well. 

[Wiimeiser 444]

Is the Windows version 64-bit yet though? And games can have really strange bugs, in emulation or otherwise. Donkey Kong 64 has a memory leak and lags on the original hardware. Super Mario World has overlapping tables.

[xxdita 1,097]

I have no way to diagnose an 'IID bugged out' error, much less fix it. I don't even know what that means. 

[dancisa 2]

Hi all! I've recently gone back to SC4 after realising the AppStore version had been updated for Catalina, but having a small minor issue with the viaduct rail from NAM.

A few pieces do not show on the loops for viaduct and underground rail. The ones I have notices so far are the underground rail entrance, the diagonal viaduct rail slope, and two viaduct rail pieces: straight to diagonal, and straight plus diagonal junction, and the non-diagonal rail over rail pieces.

I was wondering if anyone had similar issues? Or any idea on how to fix it? I found it quite strange as they completely disappeared from the game. I removed the NAM files I had in my plugins folder and reinstalled them from the windows installer but the same exact issue is happening so not sure what could I do to fix it. If anyone has any idea it would be greatly appreciated!

[xxdita 1,097]

4 minutes ago, dancisa said:

Hi all! I've recently gone back to SC4 after realising the AppStore version had been updated for Catalina, but having a small minor issue with the viaduct rail from NAM.

A few pieces do not show on the loops for viaduct and underground rail. The ones I have notices so far are the underground rail entrance, the diagonal viaduct rail slope, and two viaduct rail pieces: straight to diagonal, and straight plus diagonal junction, and the non-diagonal rail over rail pieces.

I was wondering if anyone had similar issues? Or any idea on how to fix it? I found it quite strange as they completely disappeared from the game. I removed the NAM files I had in my plugins folder and reinstalled them from the windows installer but the same exact issue is happening so not sure what could I do to fix it. If anyone has any idea it would be greatly appreciated!

Ok, that's a new one.