More Brown Boxes

[Wiotbilu 22]

What happened here? I downloaded the IRM and the I-D, I-M, and other, and the dependencies, i dont know this is happened

[CorinaMarie 29,578]

Brown boxes will occur for one or two reasons.

1. Missing dependency(s)
2. Path to the deps is too long and the game can't find them

Be sure to check that you have the deps for the deps if there are any.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Every box has the same pair of black tanks under it, so it looks like one prop is missing. Look really carefully at your dependencies to see that you got the right versions. F'rinstance, some prop packs were superseded by mega packs having very similar names.

[twalsh102 1,601]

Specifically, brown boxes only occur when the game can't find (or read) a model file, for a prop or a building. 

The IRM Base Set only modified the properties of default Maxis buildings, so this isn't likely the cause.  The IRM Addon sets require one or the other of the Maxis Buildings as Props packages, so check the dependencies for those downloads.  

@T Wrecks has released dozens of additional lots that are all re-lots of buildings created by other content creators.  Every one of these require the model file from the original building.   So the most likely cause of your problem is you're missing one of these models.  Double-check everything as both @CorinaMarie and @jeffryfisher recommend

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Path to the deps is too long and the game can't find them

Depending on how you have your Plugins folder organized, this is a possible problem.  Windows has a path length limitation.  The path for any file starts with the drive letter and continues through all the names of all the folders within which that file is buried, and ends with the last letter of the file extension (i.e. .dat, .SC4Model, etc.), plus a hidden blank character.  Practically, this limitation is 247 visible characters.  If you have many nested folders (i.e. multiple folder levels), and you exceed the max Path length for any file, Windows (and thus the game) won't be able to read that file.  Unless you want to start counting characters in the paths for all your files, the only way to test this, once you are positive you have all dependencies, would be to place all of the dependencies for IRM lots (if you're sure these are IRM lots) at the root of your Plugins folder, or maybe 1 folder level deeper.  Since the game essentially only registers the IIDs of the various exemplars and models (and not where they're located within Plugins), you can re-arrange your Plugins folder at will without the game choking.  If the brown boxes magically turn into buildings, then you know the path length is the culprit, and you need to rethink how your Plugins folder is organized.

[Cyclone Boom 16,854]

19 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Path to the deps is too long and the game can't find them

Very interesting. I thought there must be a upper limit in the file system, but never knew this was a practical consideration.

 

4 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

Practically, this limitation is 247 visible characters.

In my curiosity, as a test I was able to create a *.txt file with 255 characters including the extension. I named the file in the root of C drive, then as expected with the path counting as the limit, I received the following error when attempting a move into a subfolder:

 

Testing in my Plugins folder, adding the full path also adds up to 255, from where Windows doesn't allow additional characters. This includes the drive letter, but not the file extension. So, I guess it's safe to assume the 247 would apply to a path in a folder with an 8 character named length:

E.g. C:\Testing1\<File>.txt

Or am I misunderstanding something?

[rsc204 21,806]

7 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Testing in my Plugins folder, adding the full path also adds up to 255, from where Windows doesn't allow additional characters. This includes the drive letter, but not the file extension. So, I guess it's safe to assume the 247 would apply to a path in a folder with an 8 character named length:

I'd say you're on the money here. As you have observed however, when this limit is reached, Windows will flag the problem right away. In fact it won't allow you to keep things this way, you must shorten the file name before renaming it or moving/copying it. So in theory at least, it should be impossible to fall foul of this problem without warning.

[twalsh102 1,601]

The actual Max_Path value is 260 characters.

-12 characters for the storage of an MS-DOS compatible 8.3 file name;

-1 for the ending null character

= 247

The operating system used and/or the file system used can affect this number.

Windows 10 does away with MAX_PATH limitations, but one must manually enable this behavior in the Registry. 

The source of this information is an MSDN article (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365247(v=vs.85).aspx)

There has been at least one post in these forums where path length was found to be a factor in whether a file could be read by the game.  I don't remember the creator of that topic, but the issues were very similar.  The topic author was having problems with brown boxes, even though he had verified that the required model file for the building was in fact in his Plugin folder.

The cause of the problem became clear when he first moved files to the root of his Plugins folder (if I remember correctly), and solved the problem.  Then he moved the files back to their original locations, and shortened the path by shortening some of the intervening folder names, which also resolved the problem.

Given when SC4 was released, I'm not sure if it can be anticipated how SC4 will react when being run on a Windows 10 system that has had NTFS Long Paths enabled.  Will it use whatever Path length limitations exist (or don't exist) in the underlying OS, or is there something built into the code that forces compliance with whatever limitations existed at the time SC4 was written?  I guess only experimentation will give us the answer.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

From the looks of the screenshot, you may have downloaded the filler sets, but not the core IRM. That one comes with an invisible blank building that I used for the fillers, among many other things. If you have indeed not done so, try downloading the core IRM. That should fix the problem. Let me know if it helped - if not, we'll see what else we can do.

One thing is for sure: we will get this problem sorted out.

[Tyberius06 12,184]

9 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Windows will flag the problem right away. In fact it won't allow you to keep things this way, you must shorten the file name before renaming it or moving/copying it.

Yepp, that's true, but I didn't know if that could be a problem for the game, because I don't use the windows file manager/browser thingy for moving files/folders, but I'm using Total Commander UP, which is warning me about longer paths, but I can ignore the message and moving/saving things without changing the original names. It happens sometimes when I have a MP3 with very long filename in a very long foldername under 2-4 subfolders... And for example my music player under windows OS still can play the chosen MP3... Of course the player wasn't made in 2003, so obviously technologically more improved by handleing paths.... but still... I don't know how it is affecting datpacked files, where the actual file originally is under 2-4 subfolder, but the game uses only the datpacked data...

[Edvarz 1,984]

10 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

There has been at least one post in these forums where path length was found to be a factor in whether a file could be read by the game.  I don't remember the creator of that topic, but the issues were very similar.  The topic author was having problems with brown boxes, even though he had verified that the required model file for the building was in fact in his Plugin folder.

That would be me, and this is the topic, for reference. I never recieved any kind of alert from windows when extracting the files, I don't know if it was because I'm on win 7 or because I extracted them directly from the .zip using WinRAR or because there were more files that didn't have the length issue.

In any case, I'd say the most likely cause for this particluar situation is the missing model @T Wrecks mentions. From the screenshot it looks like the player is using the I-D Addon set, but not the Base Pack, and the lots with the problem seem to be from the I-D Addon indeed.

Looking at the IRM's folder structure, the dummy building model has a shorter path than any of the lot files, including the Addon ones, so if the IRM Base Pack was installed and there is a path lenght issue none of the lots would be able to load properly, I'm 90% sure path lenghts aren't the issue here.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 12/9/2017 at 10:49 AM, twalsh102 said:

If you have many nested folders (i.e. multiple folder levels), and you exceed the max Path length for any file, Windows (and thus the game) won't be able to read that file

Take a quick look through the tree to see if there's useless nesting. If so, then trim the tree. Also look for redundant naming. You don't need three levels of folders that all spell out "Industrial Revolution Mod"; you need just one "IRM" and maybe a layer of other folders under it. Simplifying the nesting now while it's fresh will help you find things later when your memory has faded.

And then there's DAT-packing... but you want a working plugins set before you get into that.

[Wiotbilu 22]

On 10/12/2017 at 1:10 PM, T Wrecks said:

From the looks of the screenshot, you may have downloaded the filler sets, but not the core IRM. That one comes with an invisible blank building that I used for the fillers, among many other things. If you have indeed not done so, try downloading the core IRM. That should fix the problem. Let me know if it helped - if not, we'll see what else we can do.

One thing is for sure: we will get this problem sorted out.

Thanks it works, i don't know i not download the Core IRM

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Ah, that's good to hear. Thanks for letting us know - I hate it when the original poster disappears without another word and you never know whether they solved the problem or not. Guess there's nothing more to say in this thread than this: Have fun building some industrial areas and enjoy the game - without brown boxes!