Ghost night lights

[tariely 4,496]

Has anyone experienced this bug  ? 

   

If I bulldoze the kot in day mod, it"s OK. If I go to night mod and then bulldoze the lot (or back to day mod and bulldoze) I get this  (idem with the other lot seen there)

   

 (those are dwho baseball and soccer field, and high scool soccer football if anyone cares to open those suckers up and understand better than I what they are made of:-))))

I took out anything I had directly or remotely related to lighting (mainly the LRM, as well as My Mashty Night mod) and it has no effect. 

Some football (not soccer) fields are lit and don't ghost, but very few sports park are lit anyway. I wonder why. Is it because the batlotters didn't play or care about night playing or because they thought no one played at night ? (!!!) OR because there is no non-buggy way to light sport fields ? (I'm thinking about AGS wonderful bats, in particular, but there are literally a dozen of others. I tried them all and wept.)

[rsc204 21,804]

Are these suffering from some sort of immortal lot syndrome I wonder?

Can you build in every square where they previously occupied? If not, then part of the lot still remains, which explains the lights being there. SC4 is odd with how it saves what is in your city, so the lights are still in the save file, which suggests the lots are still there, even if you can't see them.

[twalsh102 1,601]

@rsc204, you may have hit the nail on the head.  If I remember correctly, one of the causes (if not the primary cause) of immortal lot syndrome is overhanging props.  I think the problem in this case is caused by Prop IID 0xAAA9BA97 Effect_soccerfield_lighting, used on both lots.   It looks like it was designed to provide night lighting for (of all things) a soccer field.  If oriented correctly, the lighting effect covers the entire soccer field (as seen on the soccer field in the combo lot).  However, when oriented incorrectly, or when used for something other than a soccer field, it may end up "overhanging" the lot.  On the baseball field, the lighting effect overhangs the back of the lot by a strip of 1x3 tiles.  It also overhangs the left side of the parking lot by the same amount.  On the soccer filed only lot, instead of being oriented along the length of the field, this effect prop appears to be oriented across the field (probably to light the stands?), overhanging the lot by about half of a 1x3 tile strip.

This is my best guess.

Of course, if memory has failed me (not an unusual occurrence these days) about the cause of immortal lot syndrome, then we're back to guessing.  But the fact still remains that the lighting effect IS overhanging the lot boundaries as seen in your posted pictures.

[SimCoug 5,972]

I don't think overhanging props cause immortal lots, but buildings will.  Props can overhang a lot without a problem, except that night lights sometimes bork.  I think that is a very old lot, so there might be a good number of problems with the modding.  

[CaptCity 4,672]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the issue... However, it looks like you're using Peg's UT Avenue Divider. If so, the median decorations do light up if there's a powered lot placed next to the avenue. With that in mind, all the images appear 'normal'. Unless, of course, I'm not seeing the problem...

[tariely 4,496]

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Are these suffering from some sort of immortal lot syndrome I wonder?

Can you build in every square where they previously occupied? If not, then part of the lot still remains, which explains the lights being there. SC4 is odd with how it saves what is in your city, so the lights are still in the save file, which suggests the lots are still there, even if you can't see them.

Not immortal lots ; building can proceed without a problem (just that weird light in night mod). But you're right (@twalsh) the lighting prop is not well aligned. Those are not recent lots, indeed :-), @simcoug. However, this also happens when it's correctly aligned in a recent relot of the Large Recreational Area by a friend (I put the link in case someone wants to have a look at the original lot). The friend cannot reproduce the bug for himself (aHA ? Although I have no idea what it might mean.) I also found that bug in, of all things, at least one of the beautiful SG Public Swimming Pools !

Other strange lighting behaviours :

(1) if I plop the lots in day mod then bulldoze it, no ghost ; if I go to night mod, let it run (or not) and bulldoze, ghost-city.

(2) Big League and Minor League RWD stadii : first time I plop and go to night mod, lights ("oooh.... aaaah !") all over. Next time I plop them (and every time after that): no light at all in the Big League Stad., only the bleachers in the Minor League Stad. (they can be bulldozed without leaving ghosts, though.)

(3) And yes, usually, @Captcity, the PEG UT avenue divider lights up everywhere when powered. Here, it does not.  

(4) another piece for the X File : Some time ago, rivit did a relot of WMP Grand Sport Park with me (I was the deps' hunter, HE did the relot !). There is a (the) soccer field in it. I seem to remember we had a problem with it ( (not the ghost light, though),but finally rivit managed to make it light up correctly. Now, when I try it, it does not. No lights.

Logically, I am also forced to wonder if something in my plugins folder present get-up might cause a problem with certain types of lighting effects. I did try the lots after taking out anything I had related to lighting, the Mashty Night mod, Mandelsoft LRM and even Magneto override of the SAM Parking texture. Which by the way, are also behaving strangely : not only they don't light up but they dont seem to conduct electricity to adjacent lots anymore. UH ?

But If I open the two sport fields lots (ilive to the rescue...) and take out the Prop IID 0xAAA9BA97 Effect_soccerfield_lighting, the ghost would disappear, then ? IF that is what causes that specific ligting problem. Wouldn't solve the others, though. 

 

[twalsh102 1,601]

To paraphrase Rod Serling:  'There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man...  It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.'

[tariely 4,496]

Considering that SC4 is proudly bidimensional, entering a fifth in there is no mean feat, I'd say. 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

3 hours ago, tariely said:

after taking out anything I had related to lighting

The next step is to set aside your whole "real" plugins folder and test the problem lot in a minimalist setup (bare essential lot and dependencies in a test-city of a test-region).

[tariely 4,496]

I am doing that and as of now, no change... But as-you-know-Bob-, it's a lengthy, tedious process...

[CorinaMarie 29,558]

A quick way to get an empty Plugin folder without taking up additional hard drive space and without having to wait for them to be copied is to simply rename the Plugins folder to something like xPlugins. You can then re-create a new empty Plugins folder or simply skip that step and start the game. It will then create the new empty Plugins folder for you. Now you can copy in just the mods you need to perform the test.

To reverse this, name the new Plugins folder to zPlugins and then rename the xPlugins back to Plugins and you are back to where you were before. (Or you can move rather than copy known good plugins from xPlugins into the newly created Plugins folder. That also happens near instantaneously because the OS just changes it's location pointers internally.)

[tariely 4,496]

AH good advice, indeed ! Thanks. 

[tariely 4,496]

Well, I am at the end of my (very much chomped) tether. With a TOTALLY empty plugins folder -- I mean nothing, nada, zilch, -- I sill get the ghosts.  And I still manage to get a weirderie : first time I plop one of the ghosty lots (dwho baseball and soccer), it has no lights (no lighter green rectangle) and it leaves no ghost when bulldozed. The second time, it has and it ghosts. 

I'M LOSING MY MIND !!!

Before I really lose it, though, I hope one of you Wise Old Timers will have the beginning of an inkling of a possibility of an explanation for this. (apart from resintall SimCity...)

Meanwhile, I will reestablish my plugins folder, destroy all those pesky lot, all along cackling madly, (keeping a back up though...) and PLAY for a while.

#ThoroughlyDisgustedInGhostVille

[CorinaMarie 29,558]

You know, I kinda like those weird, eerie lights. Why not learn to love them?

[tariely 4,496]

Avaunt,  CorinaMarie ! I mean, Vade Retro. They frack up anything that is plopped on them, giving it that greenish slimy hue, pfah. (eh, it makes me suddenly realize I never tried to grow something on them. Maybe the growth does away with it ?........)

Naaaah. I won't even try.

[rsc204 21,804]

Logically a re-install isn't likely to help, whatever is wrong here is remaining in your save files, so even after the re-install will still be there. Best guess is there is something wrong with the lots and the best course of advice in the first instance is to refrain from using them.

I would try using the immortal lot removal tool to remove the lots, re-plopping them first so the tool can do it's job properly. Hopefully that will remove the lights along with the lot. But sometimes things get stuck in the save file and simply can't be removed. I've had this in a couple cities where I did some serious alterations with terraforming and a few garbage zones would simply never go away. It's rare, but when it happens, there isn't always a lot you can do about it.

[tariely 4,496]

I tried with a totally empty plugins in a new region (San Francisco, not one of my own designs) with the same results.

I can believe older lots by perhaps less crafty authors at the time  (for instance dwho Baseball and Soccer ?) might have a batlotting problem but... SimGoober Public Pools ???? My faith in the Universe is being sorely tested, there.

And why should adding the light rectangle to a lot that didn't have any in the first place (like the Large Recreational Area) make it suffer from the same problem ?

Why are the PEG UT median not working anymore except where the power source is ?

Why do the Big and Minor league RWD lots light up correctly once and never again afterwards ?

Why-how can one buggy lighting effect cause that variety of lighting problems ?

Etc. :-)

I am stupid that way, I want to understand, which can be lethal sometimes as far as SC4 is concerned !!! :-/ )

so, BTW what is a save file ? Why reinstalling the game not solve anything ?

And what should I do if the removal with the Immortal Lot Killer doesn't work ? Nuke the region ? (It's a test one, so no tears there,  at least).

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode. Or not :-)

[tariely 4,496]

OK, the Immortal Lot Killer did... something. The first time, when I plopped one close to the sportsfield relot, the buggy light effect (it was in day mod) suddenly disappeared and the lot could be bulldozed without a ghost. The second time, perhaps because I had gone to the night mod, the light effect remained in the lot, but the lot consented to be bulldozed without a ghost. Otherwise, the lighting effect bug is still there in the lots and the ghost remains if the lot is bulldozed "normally".

I haven't checked the PEG UT Median or the RWD sport parks. Testing fatigue. Also, I'm afraid to find out those problems remain.

But, OK, I will not use those lots again (which somehow, though practical, is not a satisfying solution for my inquiring mind :-)))

However, when it rains, it pours : I had put an x prefix in the plugins folder's name, as CorinaMarie had suggested, in order to test with an empty folder. When I tried to de-x it, it refused. I tried to trash it, it refused.  As I have a back-up of the original plugins folder, I emptied it. It accepted. I then tried to trash the remaining xplugins folder.  It still refused either to be trashed or to be de-xed. Hexed ???  Then I realized, no, there was one folder left in there, which had in it another folder, with a empty folder in it. They all demand an authorization - -from the authorized person, who is me. I'm not sure I know how to do this. I suppose I can play with the folder rightly named "plugins", putting back in there the original contents of my gaming folder, but I am wary, now. Would having the xplugins folder in there too do Strange Things to the game ?

So, how do I authorize myself ?

[CorinaMarie 29,558]

1 hour ago, tariely said:

So, how do I authorize myself ?

I use XP Pro and it doesn't give me any of that silly call-your-boss crap so I wasn't aware there'd be any consequences. The part about it not renaming back is confuzzling since it let you rename it originally. Are you sure you renamed the new Plugins to zPlugins before trying to rename xPlugins back to Plugins? No system will let you rename something to a name already in use.

For the rest it might be you have to have administrator rights. I'll let the gurus explain that part since I'm not an expert beyond XP. (I do now have Win 7 Pro on my internet comp, but it also hasn't given me those crazy go-away-and-quit-trying-to-do-stuff here problems.)

[tariely 4,496]

A Windows-savvy friend is coming for dinner. In exchange, he will solve that problem :-)

[Fantozzi 4,064]

If it isn't for the reason I'm on drugs - the trees on the ave spread light too? They look if they are radioactive. Or bioluminescence? Maybe to dig there - seems to be a mod adding light where it shouldn't.

[tariely 4,496]

Dont be alarmed. It's PEG UT Median Mod. The trees are indeed illuminated. Why not ? :-)))

[Fantozzi 4,064]

Sorry. I grew up in the Black Forrest.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

2 hours ago, tariely said:

When I tried to de-x it, it refused. I tried to trash it, it refused

EEK! Trashing is not the solution to a renaming hitch. I like Cori's suggestion that something is in the way.

Quote

what is a save file ? Why reinstalling the game not solve anything ?

When you play in a city and then save your work, the city is saved in a save file. A region is a whole bunch of those files. Reinstalling the game may change much of the game's behavior, but it won't change the content of your saved cities. If some data has been mangled in there, then it can be difficult to repair.

  Edited July 22, 2017 by jeffryfisher  
What is a save file?

[tariely 4,496]

aaaargh, she moaned. Fortunately I (think I) only did the tests in a sandbox test region, that I can take out easily of the Regions folder...

[tariely 4,496]

59 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I use XP Pro and it doesn't give me any of that silly call-your-boss crap so I wasn't aware there'd be any consequences. The part about it not renaming back is confuzzling since it let you rename it originally. Are you sure you renamed the new Plugins to zPlugins before trying to rename xPlugins back to Plugins? No system will let you rename something to a name already in use.

For the rest it might be you have to have administrator rights. I'll let the gurus explain that part since I'm not an expert beyond XP. (I do now have Win 7 Pro on my internet comp, but it also hasn't given me those crazy go-away-and-quit-trying-to-do-stuff here problems.)

I had the xPugins (the full one) and Plugins (the empty one). I tried to get rid of the xPlugins...

[CorinaMarie 29,558]

Just now, tariely said:

I had the xPugins (the full one) and Plugins (the empty one). I tried to get rid of the xPlugins...

Sounds like that was the culprit. You need to rename Plugins to something else before that name would be available to rename xPlugins back to it.

[rsc204 21,804]

Yeah you can't rename the folder if another one with the same name exists. Otherwise, if a folder name change is locked, the first step is simply to reboot the PC to see if that unlocks things.

[tariely 4,496]

(head swimming... I'll just go and reconstitute the last photoborked entry in my CJs... and go back to this with a clearer mind.:-) But in the meantime, a big thank you, y'all ! :-)

[tariely 4,496]

a thought during insomnia : what if I uninstalled/reinstalled the patch etc. for the nigh tlighting ?

(BTW renaming the good plugins folder "zplugins" in order to delete the xplugins folder  did not work. I am stuck with it and its demand for Authorization. But it does not keep the good plugins folder from working. Apparently. I feel very uneasy now...).