Cities: Skylines - Snowfall DLC Reveal - Trams! Snow!

[Ltw 401]

25 minutes ago, Linoa06 said:

With every patch they increase that limit, though, and while I think some people with mega-PCs are absolutely selfish in their demands for more agents, I do indeed believe a lot of game issues stem from the limit. Maybe they could "simulate" some of those agents in the numbers, so that your agent population doesn't drop the moment you pass the cap or something.

I wish they fixed more issues though, that would be great. That's what I welcome the agent upgrades for, rather than whining at my underwhelmed CPU.

That's true. We also have to remember that Skylines is a demanding game already. However, I think this agent-limit is quite static. There is a maximum number and that's it. I would like it if it would be more dynamic. If you have a good computer for instance, you could run a more extensive simulation. But even for the people with lower-spec computers it might be nice to be able to increase agent-limit based on the graphic quality. If you are for instance choosing to set texture-quality on low or medium you could run a more extensive simulation than if you're choosing to have a higher quality of your graphics. If you would do it like this you could still have an agent-limit like how it is right now, but with the possibility to increase this agent limit depending on how demanding the game is for your pc. I'd have to say that I'm not an expert on this field, thus I don't know exactly what limitations there are with such an approach. Nevertheless, there are still some issues that should be solved and maybe there are possibilities to do that in a way it doesn't have a lot negative effects on the agent-limit itself. So let's hope they will solve some urgent issues in the next patch.

[Linoa06 1,374]

12 minutes ago, Ltw said:

That's true. We also have to remember that Skylines is a demanding game already. However, I think this agent-limit is quite static. There is a maximum number and that's it. I would like it if it would be more dynamic. If you have a good computer for instance, you could run a more extensive simulation. But even for the people with lower-spec computers it might be nice to be able to increase agent-limit based on the graphic quality. If you are for instance choosing to set texture-quality on low or medium you could run a more extensive simulation than if you're choosing to have a higher quality of your graphics. If you would do it like this you could still have an agent-limit like how it is right now, but with the possibility to increase this agent limit depending on how demanding the game is for your pc. I'd have to say that I'm not an expert on this field, thus I don't know exactly what limitations there are with such an approach. Nevertheless, there are still some issues that should be solved and maybe there are possibilities to do that in a way it doesn't have a lot negative effects on the agent-limit itself. So let's hope they will solve some urgent issues in the next patch.

Yeah, it doesn't seem very hard to me to allow the user to tweak the limit on their end. It could come with an instability/performance warning. I get the feeling that the simulation is made for the current limit, but at the same time obviously not since so many issues stem from too low a limit.

Now I'm not a programmer but the actual raising of the limits seems easy to do, and then it's at the user's own risk. Encourage them to backup, make the limit setting options available in the menu before loading a city, and you're sure that any problems would be cleared by setting it back to normal.

Well, I think.

[Ltw 401]

20 minutes ago, Linoa06 said:

Yeah, it doesn't seem very hard to me to allow the user to tweak the limit on their end. It could come with an instability/performance warning. I get the feeling that the simulation is made for the current limit, but at the same time obviously not since so many issues stem from too low a limit.

Now I'm not a programmer but the actual raising of the limits seems easy to do, and then it's at the user's own risk. Encourage them to backup, make the limit setting options available in the menu before loading a city, and you're sure that any problems would be cleared by setting it back to normal.

Well, I think.

Yeah. An option to increase it yourself via the menu would be a great solution. Maybe there is a way to connect the limits in the menu to certain specifications in the description. Varying from default (which could be used if your pc has the minimal system-requirements) til high-range computers (which are Intel i7 gaming-pc's that have have specifications above the recommended requirements). If you make for instance 5 steps or something like that with some specifications next to that as guideline it might solve some big issues. However, it is very important to stress that using other agent-limits than the default one is at your own risk.

[GC_Vos 714]

Dev diary got posted here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cities-skylines-snowfall-dev-diary-1-prepare-for-snowfall.903292/

I'm interested in this snow shader, looking forward to trying it on some random assets even though it's just a visual change.

[hitzu 139]

4 hours ago, boformer said:

No, but there are no signs for the opposite. I know a lot about the games code, especially the network system.

The fact that there is a tram depot also makes it unlikely that the 2 systems are connected.

Is this moddable?

[ghosty20 150]

Been waiting for trams, and I am sure someone will be able to make it possible, to put snow in other biome types since the snow is generated by code and is not set in concrete so to speak..   The other thing too folks have to think about is that at least CO are still producing content for CSL..  Look at SC2013 all we got was one xpac and that was it before EA shutdown that division of Maxis involved in the making SC2013..

This post from Totallymoo is interesting in reply to a post on the paradox forums.. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cities-skylines-snowfall-dev-diary-1-prepare-for-snowfall.903292/#post-20520584

Anyway will be keeping a weather eye on how this DLC goes..

[Shroomblaze 320]

6 hours ago, Linoa06 said:

With every patch they increase that limit, though, and while I think some people with mega-PCs are absolutely selfish in their demands for more agents, I do indeed believe a lot of game issues stem from the limit. Maybe they could "simulate" some of those agents in the numbers, so that your agent population doesn't drop the moment you pass the cap or something.

I wish they fixed more issues though, that would be great. That's what I welcome the agent upgrades for, rather than whining at my underwhelmed CPU.

That is not true, they don't increase limits with every patch. In fact they recently increased the limits after not increasing them for a long time and said there you go, Now don't expect limit increases for a long time if ever.

4 hours ago, GC_Vos said:

Dev diary got posted here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cities-skylines-snowfall-dev-diary-1-prepare-for-snowfall.903292/

I'm interested in this snow shader, looking forward to trying it on some random assets even though it's just a visual change.

Yea it will be interesting, I read something about changing vertex color to designate where snow will fall. Now if BloodyPenguin can make winter work in all maps like he says he wants to then I will be happy with snow. That in combination with Terrain Themes manager automatically switching to a snowy theme when winter comes around would be amazing.

[Turjan 1,048]

As I'm playing on a tropical map at the moment, the snow theme somehow leaves me cold. I haven't even got around to try some of the mods that already exist in this regard.

Let's hope the tram is implemented halfway intelligently, but I don't have my hopes up. I also hope that the trailer with all those garbage trucks and ambulances lined up behind the tram is not symptomatic.

CiM2 had an awesome freeform tram, but I guess that won't happen here. Btw, there you could connect the tram tracks to the metro tracks (this wasn't advertised, and metro in CiM2 is like train in CSL), although you could have no tram stops on the metro track, until mods made that possible.

Edit: I hope they fix the tourism bug. It's so annoying. At the moment, I'm spending much time on going through assets from the workshop and reducing their attractiveness values.

[boformer 3,169]

7 hours ago, hitzu said:

Is this moddable?

I guess, but it would be complicated. And never as good as a solution delivered by CO.

[Horus_Kol 118]

Dang - my first reply disappeared into the aether...

Frankly, I think some people have an unreasonable expectation from the development team, and I think they're doing a good job of providing new content (free and paid) along with bugfixes and other patches. Of course they're going to release new paid content - they need to pay for coffee to fuel patch development.

And while they haven't made much mention of all the issues being addressed along with the snow and trams, I'm confident that there will be plenty of fixes in this new update - especially given the fixes released with After Dark.

[Roadman20 601]

3 hours ago, Horus_Kol said:

Dang - my first reply disappeared into the aether...

Frankly, I think some people have an unreasonable expectation from the development team, and I think they're doing a good job of providing new content (free and paid) along with bugfixes and other patches. Of course they're going to release new paid content - they need to pay for coffee to fuel patch development.

And while they haven't made much mention of all the issues being addressed along with the snow and trams, I'm confident that there will be plenty of fixes in this new update - especially given the fixes released with After Dark.

Could you expand on what you see from others on this thread are unreasonable expectations?  

I do commence Colossal Order for their expansion of follow-up content since the release of the vanilla; however, from what myself and what I perceive from other's criticism towards CO is their half-fleshed out approach to fixing things after releasing something people paid for.  Day/Night cycle is cool, so is snow, trams and new assets. I am not going to diminish the fact that C:S is a good city maker game, just not a good city simulator.

When I've built my cities, including Seattle, the game is really aesthetically pleasing.  Seattle is fun to look it, but not much else. However, whenever I pay attention to the simulation, it is just sad.  I watch hearses cross the entire city passing dozens of dead bodies along the way to some specific dead body.  Tourists don't visits my landmarks.  Harbor Island is mainly a huge, lifeless prop city pocketed with zoning to give a hint of life going on.  Don't get me wrong, the island is a glorious construction of industrial grim, but if you could play it in real time, it's virtually lifeless.  

New content is fine and dandy, the problem we're trying to portrait lies with how a customer potentially buying Snowfall DLC after experiencing some of the broken (and still partially broken) nature of expanded services in After Dark still have not been addressed in the follow-up patches since AD and continued silence on addressing those issues.  How can someone reasonably argue to making a Day One purchase of Snowfall when lingering issues from vanilla and After Dark haunt the game even with the patches they've issued.

Everyone on here, as well as CO knows the limits with their game.  As stated before, some of the existing services are clearly broken.  There have been multiple mods to address those issues, but they are not perfect solutions.  CO has made follow-up patches to their game; however, none of those patches resolved some key issues with their simulation.  As long as they appear to avoid optimizing their simulation, they have a big deal on their hands every time they add new things to the simulation.  

Realistically speaking, it seems at this point the simulation itself is flawed beyond repair, which is quite unfortunately since any new services to deepen the "city simulation" aspect of the game is never going to be truly addressed.  Because of that, I would be hesitant to buying any DLC that attempts to add some sort of depth knowing that something like the agent limits, etc. dictate the parameters of the limited simulator.  I wouldn't be 100% sure of this myself until I saw more details on Snowfall, but I suspect I maybe unfortunately right.       

 

 

[Horus_Kol 118]

24 minutes ago, Roadman20 said:

Could you expand on what you see from others on this thread are unreasonable expectations?

 

Sorry - it isn't anything specifically stated in this thread - rather it is a general (negative) attitude I've picked up from the several discussions about "fixing the game" in these forums.

Sure, even I have my own wishlist, and I acknowledge that the simulation is far from perfect (for example, a small number of farms support a ridiculously large working population).

Maybe it because I have different expectations from the game itself, but, every time I get into the game, and every time I see awesome images from other peoples' cities, I find I am content.

Anyway - all I see in this thread are people talking about what (they think) is not going to be in the update, rather than recognise that each patch and each update has brought and will bring improvements to the simulation, to the engine, to the environment, and to the experience.

[hitzu 139]

6 hours ago, boformer said:

I guess, but it would be complicated. And never as good as a solution delivered by CO.

Seeing what personally you, BloodyPenguin, the NEXt team, the Traffic++ team and other modders made for this game I'm pretty sure that in the end it will be cool. But it is a shame if modders should fix the game to the state that everybody expect from it. CO start the path similar to Maxis with The Sims franchise. The core games usually were fine (exept 4th generation) as well as some expansion packs too, but with time they started to produce more and more $%&^!ty and ovepriced stuff with very poor criss-cross compatibility and poorly implemented functionality. I hope CO wouldn't repeat Maxis' mistakes turning C:S into a milking cow.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Looks great! I'm so happy! Yay trams & weather!

[Kaputnik 27]

6 hours ago, Horus_Kol said:

Sorry - it isn't anything specifically stated in this thread - rather it is a general (negative) attitude I've picked up from the several discussions about "fixing the game" in these forums.

I can only speak for myself, but I for one love the base game and all it offers.

Not that much needs "fixing" for me to enjoy CSL, but I don't see myself utilizing the added content much - in the same way I didn't end up using AD's added features after a day or two. I'll most likely buy the DLC regardless, if only to support further development.

I do hope they'll do more DLC-scale upgrades of the the "core" (especially network) gameplay eventually though.
I'm sure they have a lot planned for when they get around to it.

[Ltw 401]

7 hours ago, Roadman20 said:

Realistically speaking, it seems at this point the simulation itself is flawed beyond repair, which is quite unfortunately since any new services to deepen the "city simulation" aspect of the game is never going to be truly addressed.  Because of that, I would be hesitant to buying any DLC that attempts to add some sort of depth knowing that something like the agent limits, etc. dictate the parameters of the limited simulator.  I wouldn't be 100% sure of this myself until I saw more details on Snowfall, but I suspect I maybe unfortunately right.       

I think stating that the simulation is flawed beyond repair is exaggerating certain issues tremendously. First of all it is kinda hard for us players to know how big certain flaws really are. Some issues that might seem big might be fixed easily because of a single line of code. You simply can't know. Next to that this game uses a simulation of agents, which is more demanding for your pc than the simulation of traffic-patterns in for example Simcity 4 (this game calculates basic traffic patterns with vehicles functioning as eyecandy, next to that simulation in Simcity is only work-related, not random trips to stores and parks like in Skylines). I also think that a lot of problems are connected to this agent-limit. For example, if you would build a big monument which should get thousands of visitors a day you will more likely have a problem with your agent-limit in transportation. This makes the simulation more difficult indeed. However, the game is quite new, I suspect that it will overcome some major issues because computers get better. For example, playing Simcity 4 with all the plugins I have on a computer that was good in 2003 (when that game was released) would be impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if it will be the same with Skylines. And at last but not least, I'm convinced that there are a lot of flaws CO fixes in the game by bringing out patches without us even knowing it, and since there are quite some people in this thread disappointed by the limited added content it might be the case that they've focused on fixing flaws in the simulation. We can't know for sure at the moment. Thus I'm very curious about this new DLC and what will be included in it.

[QuantumChicken 89]

I do not think C:SL is "flawed beyond repair", but it is pretty flawed in certain sectors and can be fixed either with mods or by CO. I just do not like how they keep releasing DLCs without addressing the current issues at hand.

[Simulanten 681]

23 minutes ago, KillrChicken said:

I do not think C:SL is "flawed beyond repair", but it is pretty flawed in certain sectors and can be fixed either with mods or by CO. I just do not like how they keep releasing DLCs without addressing the current issues at hand.

The whole of the game isn't flawed beyond repair - Roadman20 rather suggested that certain sectors (like the simulation - and that's pretty crucial in a city simulator) are seriously flawed and this isn't adressed by CO at all - and of course one could suspect that those issues are beyond repair because it would mean to go back to the very core of the design.

Sure - mods help a lot and I praise the talented programmers around here. Without them I would have left C:S months ago. But it's always going to be like tuning a poorly designed car.

I follow the game since its first announcements more than a year ago - and I'd say I kind of got to know how CO and paradox communicate and set priorities. When it became obvious that tourism is a joke it took them months to acknowledge that, then they announced "more depth" with AD and all that came out of it was an even more flawed and weird tourism sector. And regarding all balancing, services, spawning of public transport etc. we didn't get any reaction ever that was showing they were even aware and more so troubled by this. It's either not on their map at all or they consider it to be too complicated to work on for this edition of C:S. Maybe it would really mean to change too much basic code of the game to adress those issues and they missed that point already just before launch. That would be "beyond repair" then.

Maybe I'm (hopefully) wrong - I don't know much about programming. But like that I join Roadman20 - building cities which I like to look at like Boston 2.0  (and I will enjoy the rain of course) but regarding the simulation, balancing and economical scaling it's just plain sad.

 

[Roadman20 601]

2 hours ago, Ltw said:

I think stating that the simulation is flawed beyond repair is exaggerating certain issues tremendously. First of all it is kinda hard for us players to know how big certain flaws really are. Some issues that might seem big might be fixed easily because of a single line of code. You simply can't know. Next to that this game uses a simulation of agents, which is more demanding for your pc than the simulation of traffic-patterns in for example Simcity 4 (this game calculates basic traffic patterns with vehicles functioning as eyecandy, next to that simulation in Simcity is only work-related, not random trips to stores and parks like in Skylines). I also think that a lot of problems are connected to this agent-limit. For example, if you would build a big monument which should get thousands of visitors a day you will more likely have a problem with your agent-limit in transportation. This makes the simulation more difficult indeed. However, the game is quite new, I suspect that it will overcome some major issues because computers get better. For example, playing Simcity 4 with all the plugins I have on a computer that was good in 2003 (when that game was released) would be impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if it will be the same with Skylines. And at last but not least, I'm convinced that there are a lot of flaws CO fixes in the game by bringing out patches without us even knowing it, and since there are quite some people in this thread disappointed by the limited added content it might be the case that they've focused on fixing flaws in the simulation. We can't know for sure at the moment. Thus I'm very curious about this new DLC and what will be included in it.

The "flawed beyond repair" statement should not be interpreted by anyone that I definitively think 100% the game itself is broken.  Obviously the game works, just the simulation aspect doesn't.  If I thought the game was broken beyond repair, would stop playing and building Seattle.  I certainly wouldn't take the additional time to start creating custom assets for Seattle either if that was the case.  Certain aspects could strongly be assumed to be broken beyond repair, specifically the simulation and things that depend on it.  I don't think CO should be wasting their time expanding services as part of paid DLC if this is the case in the near term, which is I define as the first 2 years of this game's life cycle.

  However, since the assumption is so much of the game's services depends on the simulation and that their minimum specifications, coupled with people's ability to slowly upgrade their PCs suggest that this issue will haunt C:S throughout it's active life cycle while the game receives official support from CO.  Modders would not attempt to change the agent limits as long as the game is receiving official updates.  Yes, there have been lifted limits on buildings and roads, but the key component, such as active vehicles or pedestrians limits have been stated as "no-go" to lifting those particular limits by the developers.

Even TotallyMoo's comments in the Graphics Quality and Next Game thread just a few places down from this thread says that people ask him to reduce the requirements of the game on their PCs to even play C:S, and only compounds upon my assumption that the changes to the simulation even harder to achieve then you optimistically think in the near term.  

Quote

I know the common phrase that a game was built so toasters could run it, but the reality is that Cities: Skylines is actually already quite heavy on the requirements. I actually get more people asking us to somehow lower the minimum requirements so they can play it, rather than people asking us to raise the requirements.

Thankfully, modding and the workshop really lets you push your computer if you wish.

The graphic style won't change, and there will always be some limitations, but there are many ways you can adjust your game to make it more appealing to your visual taste. We hope that's enough for you, because we really did try to make the best looking game we could with our limitations =)

CO does not and would not release unofficial patch notes, especially regarding updates to their simulation since it would affect the modding community scene.  Mods would break if they just pushed stuff out without announcement.  They have announced and published every patch note they've ever done since the release of the game and that should not be changing.

It should not take another DLC release to fix things from the previous DLC to resolve major issues.  If subsequent information about Snowfall comes out and fleshes out more about the DLC as it nears release proves to say, "Hey, we're bringing new content along with these xyz fixes."   I'll take back what I've said on here. However, if my assumptions on thread true out to be true, you all better prepared for the long haul of C:S continuing just looking good only in screenshots.

Look, I'm going to enjoy the new weather effects and such, it's going to make prettier screenshots for Seattle.  But you and everyone else should be aware that beyond the screenshots, Seattle has glaring simulation issues even though it remains under 50k population for now as I build it up further.  I've only stated what I've personally experienced and observed based off what I've built within the game.  I would like to be proven wrong as more information comes out, but there is a good part of me that thinks otherwise.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

10 hours ago, Roadman20 said:

 They have announced and published every patch note they've ever done since the release of the game and that should not be changing.

This is not true. What happened to daylight and custom tree foliage is no where in release notes when AD was released. Even Moo said there was no mention of changes to the daytime or alpha of trees in the changelog so assumed there was a mistake. But as it is there are obvious changes to the graphics with no explanation or communication as to why or how they will respond to it. This is one of the most troubling things for me because I have assets released on the workshop before AD that now look a way I would never release them and been waiting on word of a fix.

[Feindbold 1,190]

22 hours ago, Roadman20 said:

When I've built my cities, including Seattle, the game is really aesthetically pleasing.  Seattle is fun to look it, but not much else. However, whenever I pay attention to the simulation, it is just sad.  I watch hearses cross the entire city passing dozens of dead bodies along the way to some specific dead body.     

To be fair, I dont see anything wrong with this. Its realistic after all.

[merc187 46]

There is a lot being talked about right now and (I say this sadly) unfortunately I agree with the tons of people who are not only questioning this DLC but the motives and the priorities at CO/PDX about the actual content they are releasing and how finalized and complete it really is.

It's clear that when the game first launched, there was massive hype - from all types of players.  New players, old players, and strictly simulation/city builder players and ones who didn't think they'd like to build a city for a game - until they saw this one.

It was also clear that the goal of CO/PDX in launching this game was to usurp those types of players from the EA franchise taken the feedback from the players and how much we all were enamored by this game compared to the Sim counterpart.  We as a fan base were also massively pleased to hear the apparent goals of CO/PDX to allow modding to be critical piece of the game.  It was also apparent through the following months and interviews and other sources of information that CO/PDX wanted to keep this game open and viable to as many people as they could - even if that meant keeping the stock system requirements at the same level they were in the vanilla game.  Despite some of these early comments I think most of us were pretty optimistic at the state of this game, how CO/PDX handled the community interactions and involvement, and where the agenda for this game could potentially lead to.  Yet as we move forward, and the lack of acknowledgement increases, the lack of viable updates to fix broken systems, and the release of more cosmetic DLC's that do nothing for the game play scenario, my faith is faltering to be honest.

Unable to know ahead of time how critical this game would be in the coming months they couldn't have anticipated the response, the sales, and the modding community's ability to crank out mods and assets I don't think any of us have a problem admitting this storm of success came at this small company fairly quickly and I will be the first to admit I gave them plenty of "benefit of the doubt" when they were "working" or "investigating" issues.  It seemed there was a lot of concern about "doing it right" and also "doing the fans right" when it came to updates, patches, and getting this game workable for as many of us as possible.  Yet as we move forward and our voices are not being heard, the Dev's remain silent, and there are so many other informative issues that we as a base would like to know about - with no retort from the Dev's - I have a gut feeling this is the consistent behavior we will see moving forward and the launch attention we as a fan base got was placating us and has since worn out.

Only if then, I knew how literal the Dev's were talking about this game as a "city builder" in it's purely cosmetic form I think I'd have a different reaction to a lot of how this game went down in the past 5-6 months.

When AD came out I bought Day 1.  I was excited to see how tourism and the other elements would play into the game.  I was REALLY excited to see my city at night.  I think the night cycle was a clutch/great choice by the dev's but to slack and leave the simulation components dead in the water (as RoadMan20 has mentioned) really put a bad taste in my mouth.  I was expecting more detail in the simulation of this game with the AD DLC because - wait for it - THE DEV'S PROMISED IT.  Yet I still gave them the benefit of the doubt.  They had released several patches before AD that ended up being some good fixes in the game.

Now fast forward 3 or 4 months after AD was released and despite all the bickering, all the attention the players have made about the broken systems, what resolve have we seen from CO/PDX to a) address these issues in an honest fashion and b) actually acknowledge what they will and will not work on - in a direct way - so that we can as modders/asset creators/players fully know what to expect?  Unfortunately a lot of these elements are not only still in limbo - but we as a fan, modding & asset creator base have no clue at where CO stands in these elements nor do they seem to fully acknowledge any of these as "issues" based on the "system requirements" scape goat.

It's hard for me to rationalize that as a legitimate excuse - though - as CO/PDX have even said their goal is to turn the 50 hour gamer into a 100 and a 100 hour gamer into 200 - this was almost a direct sentiment expressed during the game show where Gula and others were discussing the game.  Rhetorical question:  how do you accomplish that feat - when you are losing not only your core fan base who play this game but others who have hit those hours and honestly have nothing else to gawk at other than the screen shots?  I've played this game since launch, and screen shots and GIF's are the rage - but for players looking to expand their horizons in this game - this game is falling miserably short of their perceived goals and expectations.

RoadMan20 had it right - when you have a system that relies on faulty simulation aspects and a core base of users who want to play a city-building-simulation game - it makes no sense to ignore the entire aspects of the simulation with "smoke and mirrors" and call it a DLC named Snowfall.  Those of us who bought AfterDark appreciate (for the most part) the efforts CO/PDX has made in this game but I will be honest - I feel cheated.  $15 isn't a whole ton of money - but for a DLC, I think it's up there, and for a broken DLC that offers minute cosmetic changes?  I would have paid $5 for it and not $15.

This is a novel of a post so forgive me, but bottom line is CO/PDX are alienating a huge portion of their fan base by neglecting the issues, by focusing on aspects of this game that will simply make them money, and seem to think that us "loyal" gamers who really do love this game will be here regardless of what they do.  With each DLC they prove that we are not who they want to market to and they have us "hooked" as if we were addicts of some sort.  I find this disdainful and a bit turned off from the DLC in itself.  I Love the aspects they thought about but as many keep repeating -CO/PDX: where are your priorities?  You keep referencing pillars and missions and lofty goals for modders and asset creators but only cater to people who run the game on a laptop.  I get it - you're a business and you need to make money - but will you forsake the people who made you so successful to try and add other users who aren't as dedicated to the genre, the game, or it's success?  It seems that's the way you want to make money and I think it's a sad scenario for those of us who had faith in this game.

 

 

 

[mutton noir 170]

Firstly I love this game with over 1000 hours on the clock but it's far from perfect. Regarding Snowfall I'm too long in the tooth to fall for the hype. After Dark promised the moon but fell far short in terms of delivery. Tourism & Leisure have next to no effect on the game. The life cycle of cims with massive  mortality rates spoils the game. "Information" graphs are meaningless & provide no substantial data for analysis to assist with game play. The unrealistic number of cemeteries/crematoriums required rankles with me too. The snow theme certainly looks nice but the thought of being stuck in perpetual winter - even with a Winterfell Game of Thrones expansion- leaves me... cold. I'll not be jumping in and buying straight away- think I can wait a few months until wrinkles are ironed out and any other issues are resolved- remember- first out of the trenches always got shot!

[Vals Loeder 27]

I have been playing computer games since the first instalment of Pong in the seventies. I have NEVER EVER played a game that doesn't have its flaws, bugs, mistakes et cetera and were and never will be fixed. Because this is part of the type of product I find it utterly tiring to see a community feeling entitled to any thing more than it has actually paid for. You bought the game? That is what you get. Every patch you get for free  is an extra which you are not entitled to. Bought DLC? Great. That is what you paid for and nothing more. Read the fine line of the product you have bought. So please stop acting like spoiled brats like in all the other game communities I have become to know.

[Turjan 1,048]

As with all things, the proof is in the pudding. I'm not expecting any great increases in AI as many others, because this would probably require the game to be rebuilt from scratch. Basic data handling is is incredibly wasteful, but rewriting that is, as far as my non-existent coding experience suggests, akin to a new game. With its basic AI, the game already now slows down considerably with high population numbers. Cities with 350k inhabitants are ghost towns in most areas, as the game seems to switch most areas off. Nevertheless, the simulation becomes choppy.

This basically means I don't expect much from CO, at least nothing regarding the main game AI. I tried Traffic++, and my computer decidedly didn't like it, so I guess I will live with what I got.  It would be nice if they introduced  local services (instead of city-wide), but I don't hold my breath. But back to the pudding, I at least expect CO to fix bugs like the one with tourism. Revamping would be nice, but I'm already fine with having the core offering of the game's first DLC not bug out. Keep in mind that the day/night cycle was free, so nothing I paid extra for.

To tell the truth, I don't know what to expect. CO doesn't always fix bugs. One of the first DLCs for CiM1 contained a tram that was bugged and got stuck on switches. CO released many more DLCs, but all calls to please fix that tram went unheard. Which means I wouldn't hold my breath.

Still, I love the game. I have been playing this now for an insanely long time, and I cannot really complain that I overpaid. Quite the opposite. It's a miracle I haven't got fed up with it yet, simply from the time spent.

[ghosty20 150]

On 22/1/2016 at 7:29 AM, Vals Loeder said:

I have been playing computer games since the first instalment of Pong in the seventies. I have NEVER EVER played a game that doesn't have its flaws, bugs, mistakes et cetera and were and never will be fixed. Because this is part of the type of product I find it utterly tiring to see a community feeling entitled to any thing more than it has actually paid for. You bought the game? That is what you get. Every patch you get for free  is an extra which you are not entitled to. Bought DLC? Great. That is what you paid for and nothing more. Read the fine line of the product you have bought. So please stop acting like spoiled brats like in all the other game communities I have become to know.

This is how I feel as well and that we were lucky that any game developer bothered to make a newer City Sim especially when you see how SC2013 went..  And I feel the same that gamers now days are expecting more than developers are able to deliver in the games they buy to be 100% flawless which is never ever possible..

[Feindbold 1,190]

On 22.1.2016 at 9:59 PM, Vals Loeder said:

I have been playing computer games since the first instalment of Pong in the seventies. I have NEVER EVER played a game that doesn't have its flaws, bugs, mistakes et cetera and were and never will be fixed. Because this is part of the type of product I find it utterly tiring to see a community feeling entitled to any thing more than it has actually paid for. You bought the game? That is what you get. Every patch you get for free  is an extra which you are not entitled to. Bought DLC? Great. That is what you paid for and nothing more. Read the fine line of the product you have bought. So please stop acting like spoiled brats like in all the other game communities I have become to know.

This!

[Bad Peanut 826]

On 1/19/2016 at 2:21 AM, GC_Vos said:

They do look similar yes, but my assumption is you'll hook up a tram depot to tram roads, then plan route lines like busses. Unless they made some kind of light rail tunnel transition to metro which I doubt they have. We'll see.

I can't help but hope that there aren't actual "tram roads" that you'd upgrade roads to to allow tram routes. I'm hoping that once you place a tram depot, and you start a tram line the tracks are overlayed onto whichever roads you're using, and once the line is complete the line hooks up to the depot by the closest route again overlaying the track.

On 1/19/2016 at 2:45 AM, hitzu said:

I think tram-on-street is just another type of roads you have to build first before you can put a line there. And metro tunnels now can be raised onto the ground as a separate rails. I think at least this would be very logical to upgrade existing metro system instead of adding another complementary transport system.

 

Also some details https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/41os39/cities_skylines_snowfall_reveal_trailer/cz3xupv

Have you seen anywhere where they talk about metro being raised onto the street? I can't see anything in that link above and I hadn't read it anywhere official yet?

[GC_Vos 714]

I would love for it to work like that, so that it drops tracks wherever you build the lines. However I think it will just be 'Basic Tram Road', 'Tram Avenue' and not much more than that. Same way they added bus roads to AD.

[Bad Peanut 826]

4 minutes ago, GC_Vos said:

I would love for it to work like that, so that it drops tracks wherever you build the lines. However I think it will just be 'Basic Tram Road', 'Tram Avenue' and not much more than that. Same way they added bus roads to AD.

yeah i guess you're right, but here's hoping to the other way, if it does turn out to be that and the tracks snap to the inside lanes (so they don't block turning vehicles) it might mean NExt could create a "tram road" that uses the 6 lane streets but forbids traffic on the inside center lanes, thus creating tram only track and then you could even do the same with the 1 cell 2way roads to make dedicated tram roads. oh if only they put a bit of effort into it!