NAM General Support

[rsc204 21,808]

4 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

Unfortunately, I get a CTD inside a couple sim months, if I remove "BSC MEGA Props - CP Vol01.dat" from my Plugins folder, but I've removed everything else, and this FLEXRamps breaking mid-game issue still happens.

Probably trees planted from a tree controller depend on that file or some such. That's why it's super important for such tests to make a new city/region. Many, myself included, keep such throwaway regions hanging around just for testing purposes.

2 hours ago, Naomi57 said:

As it happens, going back to sim-year 1 and rebuilding those highway pieces doesn't fix it.  My best option for now is to just rebuild them as they break, and sometimes they break twice.  Fortunately, it all seems to settle down at about sim-year 20, with no breaks after that.

I think most likely this is triggered by changes in wealth/density of the lots touching the RHW. For example an unzoned piece uses one texture, low density has three, one for each wealth, likewise so does med/high density. As the lots change the wealthing of the RHW, the network is refreshed to change to the appropriate texture, triggering the breakages. However, they settle down because the lots stop upgrading past a certain point, which although may seem to be related to time past, is not actually the real trigger.

Thanks to Tarkus for getting to the bottom of it. I didn't think to zone next to the highway in my testing, because I never put zoning next to highways as a matter of habit.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I never put zoning next to highways as a matter of habit

But highways can generate a lot of traffic/noise! And sims don't care that there is no RCI access from highway to zones; commercial lots will enjoy high customers if they're zoned along those noisy freeways.

So my habit is to initially leave land clear along highways while traffic develops, but once it turns busy, I zone commercial.

[rsc204 21,808]

Yes, that is one reason why this might be beneficial, especially since the Com buildings that thrive there provide a nice noise buffer for other development nearby.

However, my rationale for this is simply that I can't stand wealthing (grass and especially sidewalks), appearing on my RHW networks. I put in huge amounts of work to prevent it, hence no zoning touching RHW. I'm less picky where MHO is concerned, since there this is a non-issue.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

21 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I can't stand wealthing (grass and especially sidewalks), appearing on my RHW networks.

Since there are sidewalk replacement mods, I'm surprised that the "dirt road" net under the RHW has not already been modded to suit. Is there something preventing such a solution from being added to the RHW package in NAM?

[rsc204 21,808]

43 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

Since there are sidewalk replacement mods, I'm surprised that the "dirt road" net under the RHW has not already been modded to suit. Is there something preventing such a solution from being added to the RHW package in NAM?

Changing sidewalks is easy, since you change one "master" texture, then the sidewalk appears on most network textures. With the exception of some puzzle or older pieces, that still works with RHW, sort-of. But, changing grass, such as TGN does, requires changing every single texture, there is no master grass texture. Whilst the game references sidewalks, no mechanism exists to do the same with grass. You really have to fully understand the complete 0-7 wealth texture system, to fully appreciate what's going on here. In short, for the 1-6 textures, sidewalks are suppressed by baking in grass instead, i.e. there is no Alpha or Transparency to add a sidewalk to. Therefore for the bulk of RHW pieces, you'll never see a sidewalk appear due to its design.

RHW has over 50,000 textures, which is probably why no one did anything to customise them. Actually, I've a neat tool I can use to covert my set of RHW textures, to apply TGN-style changes. Sadly the entire thing isn't automatable and as a result it's too much work to consider releasing, but I do have such a set personally.

43 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

I'm surprised that the "dirt road" net under the RHW has not already been modded to suit.

This behaviour is nothing unique to RHW or the Dirt Road network, which is the same thing in essence. All Network textures are coded to work as such. Of course, it's possible to use this system to force the game to do other things, such as how I built my Industrial SAM mod. If I hadn't baked-in the concrete to each individual texture, sidewalks would appear instead of concrete.

[Tarkus 6,932]

There has been periodic discussions about converting all (or almost all) the ground-level (L0) RHW network tiles to be model-based.  This would potentially solve a lot of problems out there--indeed, there'd be no sidewalks or grass underneath the network tiles.  The wealth textures that exist in the mod, to add that grass and suppress the sidewalks, take up a TON of disk space, too.  The .dat file for the L0 RHW-4 is (as of NAM 37 Alpha 04) 29.4MB, whereas the one for the L1 RHW-4 is a mere 1.03MB.  Most of that 28.37MB discrepancy is made up of wealth textures for ramp interfaces.  By my estimate, we'd probably end up cutting the size of a NAM installation with RHW down by about 75-80MB in the process.

-Tarkus

[rsc204 21,808]

Having seen this working in practise, I can say it's what I'd prefer personally. Since it saves having to faff with matching filler textures or making offset props to avoid wealthing.

[philforhockey51 4,211]

Can someone please point me in the direction of a DBE support thread? I'm having an issue running diagonal rail bridges, also getting a weird shadow on the others.

[rsc204 21,808]

First off, if you're a RRW user, you'll need the patch attached to this post. Indeed otherwise Rail DBE crossings don't work at all.

Shadows are something that's hard to totally avoid, it's a similar beast with some other content like Flex On-Slopes in certain rotations. But, rather than just dragging rail across an empty stretch of water, you get the terraforming ideal and also use the DBE pieces in a specific manner/order, it can mitigate the problem. You ideally want the starter placed either on the edge or no more than one tile back, I forget which. There is an online tutorial for this feature in the NAM Documentation. Not sure what's happened to the images, perhaps from the site move? I've a backup somewhere, so one way or another, they'll get restored eventually.

[philforhockey51 4,211]

Thank you! yes RRW

I figured the shadow was a placement issue as I'm testing it thank you for the advice.

[Aracari 23]

Two issues I'm having:

1. I can't seem to make the draggable curves for RHW-6S work. The documentation shows that I can put RHW in the gap to fix it, but it doesn't work when I try:
2. Is it possible to fix the HSR texture in the middle of the overhanging station included in NAM? The description says to use puzzle pieces or starter pieces to fill the gap, but I don't see anyway to actually do so. There's no straight avenue x straight HSR puzzle piece.

Any help is appreciated!

[rsc204 21,808]

7 hours ago, Aracari said:

Is it possible to fix the HSR texture in the middle of the overhanging station included in NAM? The description says to use puzzle pieces or starter pieces to fill the gap, but I don't see anyway to actually do so. There's no straight avenue x straight HSR puzzle piece.

When I look at the picture, I don't see the generic Maxis Monorail, are you also using the BTM override? As far as I know, you should be able to simply drag HSR through the station and avoid Puzzle Pieces altogether, it should still work. Just a guess, but if you've placed the HSR "Other Side" piece, likely that's breaking the HSR override to (in this case), the BTM reskin, i.e. Monorail.

7 hours ago, Aracari said:

I can't seem to make the draggable curves for RHW-6S work. The documentation shows that I can put RHW in the gap to fix it, but it doesn't work when I try:

You should just need to plop a RHW "stub", by clicking the RHW tool in the right spot. If you are doing that, most likely the error is because the land isn't flat enough for your slope settings to adjust the surrounding RHW. Flatten the land where the curve will be and you should be able to make it work. Otherwise, delete the offending stretch of Ortho RHW from the curve, build the curve, including the stub first, then drag the straight section once more. Leave a sufficient gap that the game can adjust for the new height difference.

[Aracari 23]

Thanks.
Yes, I'm using the BTM, but it does the same thing with normal monorail. The station description indicates that it should be possible to use both this lot and the "other side" lot together, but maybe this is just a mistake and there is no way to use the "other side" lot and actually put anything in the middle (except the few things that have ortho puzzle pieces - SAM, FLUP, high monorail/el rail and underground rail)

19 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

You should just need to plop a RHW "stub", by clicking the RHW tool in the right spot. If you are doing that, most likely the error is because the land isn't flat enough for your slope settings to adjust the surrounding RHW. Flatten the land where the curve will be and you should be able to make it work. Otherwise, delete the offending stretch of Ortho RHW from the curve, build the curve, including the stub first, then drag the straight section once more. Leave a sufficient gap that the game can adjust for the new height difference.

   Unfortunately, not the case, this is perfectly flat ground. I've played around with it in an empty plot and I cannot make it happen for a rightward RHW6 curve. It doesn't work no matter what order I place the components in:

[Aracari 23]

And to clarify - yes, you can make this HSR setup work if you don't use the "other side" lot. It just seems weird as this station seems clearly intended to have an avenue run through it.

[Tarkus 6,932]

  The RHW-6S curve situation is a known issue that was fixed shortly after the release of NAM 36 in September 2017, though the patch is a bit more elaborate to apply, because it is a RUL-related issue.  My post from back in February has the patch and all the details.

-Tarkus

[rsc204 21,808]

15 hours ago, Aracari said:

The station description indicates that it should be possible to use both this lot and the "other side" lot together, but maybe this is just a mistake and there is no way to use the "other side" lot and actually put anything in the middle (except the few things that have ortho puzzle pieces - SAM, FLUP, high monorail/el rail and underground rail)

If you can drag a network through a station and the connecting setup, then that's all you need do to make it work. In such cases, the Other Side lot simply is not needed and offers no benefit whatsoever.

In some very specific scenarios, using them may be necessary, but only where the piece/(s) in between the 1x1 Station Lot and the Other Side piece are Puzzle Pieces. So for example if you needed to place an HSR over Avenue Puzzle Piece for whatever reason, (not even sure that exists frankly), because dragging didn't work, then you would use the Other Side lot. You can't drag networks from Puzzle Pieces, which is precisely why a second Lot is required in such setups to allow you to connect them up with the draggable network. As it stands in your image, you've a draggable section of Monorail over Avenue between two Lots. Those lots will break the override between them, because no code exists to keep it in place in such a setup. That's not a problem if the network in use is not an override network (i.e. the original Monorail), but HSR is such an override and therefore it looks wrong. Functionally no doubt, it still works, but getting rid of the unnecessary additional lot is the solution here.

[Aracari 23]

14 hours ago, Tarkus said:

The RHW-6S curve situation is a known issue that was fixed shortly after the release of NAM 36 in September 2017, though the patch is a bit more elaborate to apply, because it is a RUL-related issue.  My post from back in February has the patch and all the details.

Thanks, that fixed it! One minor suggestion - in the future, maybe the controller compiler executable should include some text indicating what the "input" and "output" folder should be. From what I can tell, right now you have to look it up online. And the spot I did find it is actually instructions for the Mac installation: https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=16950.0. But not a big deal.

25 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

f you can drag a network through a station and the connecting setup, then that's all you need do to make it work. In such cases, the Other Side lot simply is not needed and offers no benefit whatsoever.

In some very specific scenarios, using them may be necessary, but only where the piece/(s) in between the 1x1 Station Lot and the Other Side piece are Puzzle Pieces. So for example if you needed to place an HSR over Avenue Puzzle Piece for whatever reason, (not even sure that exists frankly), because dragging didn't work, then you would use the Other Side lot. You can't drag networks from Puzzle Pieces, which is precisely why a second Lot is required in such setups to allow you to connect them up with the draggable network. As it stands in your image, you've a draggable section of Monorail over Avenue between two Lots. Those lots will break the override between them, because no code exists to keep it in place in such a setup. That's not a problem if the network in use is not an override network (i.e. the original Monorail), but HSR is such an override and therefore it looks wrong. Functionally no doubt, it still works, but getting rid of the unnecessary additional lot is the solution here.

There are some benefits to the other side lot - as it adds a base texture that is otherwise missing, and it allows traffic to access the station from both sides of the avenue. But pretty minor. With some playing around, I discovered that you CAN make it work with a one-tile network crossing and a HSR starter piece. In the image below, the other side lot is necessary so both roads can access the station. So it isn't as useless as I initially thought.

Thanks both.

[rsc204 21,808]

4 hours ago, Aracari said:

In the image below, the other side lot is necessary so both roads can access the station. So it isn't as useless as I initially thought.

But the station itself is only 1x1 in size, in effect the other side lot is also a station or more specifically a Transit Switch. As such this setup would be technically 2 stations. Of course that might not bother you, since you can see it as one station as functionally it's mostly the same.

The real crux here is that this station is designed to fit a certain situation, this can limit what is and isn't possible. In order that it can fit multiple potential networks under the stations 2-tile wide gap, it must either be an overhanging lot, like it was modded, or a 4x1 station with a network, for example Avenue, that is also TE'd. However, in the second scenario, the station would be much less flexible as a result, there is always a trade off somewhere.

Likewise with the HSR override, if you want a network between two such TE'd lots, there needs to be space for a starter piece somewhere between them. I not even sure it's technically possible to add RUL code that interacts with lots, if so, that means it's simply impossible to prevent such situations from destabilising. Similarly, precisely because RUL code exists to drag HSR over avenue in OxO, no puzzle piece was made for this situation.

23 hours ago, Tarkus said:

  The RHW-6S curve situation is a known issue that was fixed shortly after the release of NAM 36 in September 2017, though the patch is a bit more elaborate to apply, because it is a RUL-related issue.  My post from back in February has the patch and all the details.

Thanks Alex, totally forgot about that one.

[philforhockey51 4,211]

In using the ERRW I came across an issue with missing overpasses on diagonals. These seem like they would exist considering the diagonal x diagonal exists. Do they exist or do I have a different problem? Above the highway is L1 and below L2

[rsc204 21,808]

I’m pretty sure everything from your screenshot that isn’t working, simply isn’t complete as of NAM36.

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

Now that @rsc204 brings that up, do we have any progress news on the (understandably painful) process of putting together NAM 37?

[rsc204 21,808]

It’ll be ready when it’s ready, nothing new to report.

[Tarkus 6,932]

10 hours ago, Lucario Boricua said:

Now that @rsc204 brings that up, do we have any progress news on the (understandably painful) process of putting together NAM 37?

To go into a little further detail, we've been stuck on Alpha Build 04 since November 6th.  RL's been extremely busy, but quite good for me since, both professionally and personally, and there were some complications with Alpha Build 05's assembly process.  We might finally have a gameplan for how to deal with those complications (it involves potentially cutting down the feature set), but finding the time and energy to actually do it has been quite difficult, and RL's also considerably impacted other members of the team as well.

Based on how Alpha Build 04 was, we're probably going to need at least one or two more internal builds before we can release a public release candidate (kind of like the old "pre-releases").  Doing that has been part of the gameplan for some time now--mainly as some of the stuff we're doing is going to need a wider userbase to dial in.  Again, though, it's an "it will be ready when its ready" situation. 

We're probably going to go to a new approach for release engineering after this, which better reflects team members' development styles and types of projects.

-Tarkus

[junspud 1,066]

I was wondering if it's possible to use the Quick Change pieces to connect RHW directly to RHW, as shown here;

When I try to to finish it, I end up with this;

The RHW turns into what appears to be a road piece, and then the second half simply won't let me drag through at all.

I know the QC pieces are limited in their capabilities, so I'm unsure rather or not I'm doing something incorrectly or this just isn't supported? Thanks. The terrain is completely flat.

I have the Euro RHW textures with the US road textures by the way.

[junspud 1,066]

Nevermind, I think this is how you're supposed to do it as opposed to what I was trying to do.

[Tyberius06 12,189]

2 hours ago, junspud said:

I was wondering if it's possible to use the Quick Change pieces to connect RHW directly to RHW, as shown here;

When I try to to finish it, I end up with this;

The RHW turns into what appears to be a road piece, and then the second half simply won't let me drag through at all.

I know the QC pieces are limited in their capabilities, so I'm unsure rather or not I'm doing something incorrectly or this just isn't supported? Thanks. The terrain is completely flat.

I have the Euro RHW textures with the US road textures by the way.

Hi!

I looked into it. I didn't manage to make it with the QC pieces (I eventually with a bunch of Disconnector trickery managed to make the intersection, but you need to place the QC ramps directly next to overpass without any gap, but still at the intersection it reverted back to US RHW2 textures), but with the normal FlexHeight transitions I managed to recreate your L1 RHW-2-L1 MIS intersection set-up, but indeed it's highly instable currently. I'm not entirely sure, that it's fully supported.

However the QC ramps were working much better with Road Overpasses.

The trick is the same, you need to place the top end of the QC ramp directly next to the edge of the road on all sides. 
1. Draw the RHWs
2. Make the Road overpass
3. Place the QC ramps as I explaned directly at the edge of the road without gaps
4. Draw the MIS ramps accross the Road overpass

This is not working with RHW 2 currently, although.

I hope it helps!

- Tyberius

PS: your other question about the ERRW diagonal support. I tested it, it's really limited at this stage. The L2 Diagonal ERRW and Ortho/diag Road overpasses are quite good, but the AVE is more or less not supported with diagonal ERRW at this stage.

[junspud 1,066]

The EL-R dual network pieces for Road has a straight piece, and then a strait piece which says 'NO pylon', but both of them seem to have pylons, is it supposed to be that way?

I tried it out on a vanilla Plugins folder with just NAM and both pieces have pylons.

[rsc204 21,808]

22 hours ago, junspud said:

The EL-R dual network pieces for Road has a straight piece, and then a strait piece which says 'NO pylon', but both of them seem to have pylons, is it supposed to be that way?

This is the case for the ML El Rail mod which you are using. Probably due to the different design, a no pylon piece simply doesn't work with the updated models.

[junspud 1,066]

Ah I see thanks.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15238.340

I was just looking over this thread, RRW under MHO L2 is a NAM37 thing right? Just wondering because I still end up with this;

Edit; thank you to Raymond7cn who I think just answered the question.

RHW-4 works well as a workaround, indistinguishable actually.

[rsc204 21,808]

All such “default” crossings were given RRW support when i updated the MHO a few versions back. In fact, before NAM36’s release I had STR working too. Not sure then why they are not appearing correctly, would need to look in to it. When I have the chance, i’ll attach a patch file, not at my PC right now.