BAT4MAX V6/VRay Testing

[Droric 99]

As some of you may know I am currently working on a new version of BAT4MAX.  I have included support for VRay in the release so far but am in need of some lighting experts to help me work out a few issues in replicating a close match to mental ray's output.  Let me know if you are interested.  VRay implementation in BAT4MAX requires version 2 or higher (as far as I know).  I currently only have the day rig setup but want to try to get the renders close before I setup the night rigs.

 

BAT4MAX6 currently includes the following features

• Separate selections in the Let there be light rollout to select MentalRay or VRay Adv
• Modified gamma settings to allow for proper export compatibility with max 2014's new automatic gamma
• Lighting rigs using VRaySun and VRayIES
• Automatic setup of various Vray features required for correct output (see below)
• New Output rollout with selector for SD/HD
• Modified mental ray settings to allow for compatible exports in Max 2014.

Automatic VRay settings:

Disabled VRay frame buffer as this is not compatible with BAT4MAX's export process

Enables VRaySky environment map

Enables VRay Exposure Control and sets EV to 2.5

Creates VRaySun and VRayIES and links them to xref'd TB2 Camera Rig

Enables Global Illumination and Ambient Occlusion

Sets VRay Adv as default renderer and material editor

 

 

The first screenshot is VRay using the same shader as Mental Ray in the 2nd screenshot.  Credit goes to Xannepan for use of his model for the previews.

 

 

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[Huston 5,798]

Looks like SimCity 4 is going a step up ahead of 2013 once again.

[xannepan 513]

Great! I am honoured, and really looking forward to this. For my Paris buildings I never could get good results with bat4max5 (mainly because I never succeeded in getting the same texture coloring/brightness/contrast that I get in chris' bat4max). So i am keeping an eye on what you van achieve here

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Great! I am honoured, and really looking forward to this. For my Paris buildings I never could get good results with bat4max5 (mainly because I never succeeded in getting the same texture coloring/brightness/contrast that I get in chris' bat4max). So i am keeping an eye on what you van achieve here

 

Wait, YOU!? 

[Xyloxadoria 1,099]

I saw your post over in my BAT thread and thought id pop in to answer your question. The shard has been test exporting in mental ray and looks nice but i really want to be able to use it with VRay. (Its also taking forever to render, I started last night and it probably wont be done till after work today, Vray would be faster)

 

Anyway my testing showed that the D65 Preset for white balance got me the best match to mental ray. My testing was during the "2014 Curse" when my gamma didn't work, so I might be wrong. D65 wasnt 100% correct, but it was at least the closest I could get, so it would at least be a step in the right direction. 

[edwardjeria 503]

Oooo. Whats??

[Droric 99]

VRay exporting to game is working 100% in the new BAT4MAX.  This process has been fully automated.  I may try to automate the creation of the sc4model in gmax via a maxscript call into gmax since all gmax is doing is running a script.  The main difference I see with the render is that VRay doesn't want to allow me to control the shadow color.  If you look at the clay renders you will notice the shadow color is physically correct but should be more blue.  The white balance is currently set to D65 as this give the best looking match to the mental ray export.  If anyone has any tips on controling the shadow color in VRay using the VRaySun and VRayIES systems it would be of great help.

 

Update:  I updated the list of features included in this version.

 

I will post some final production renders of the same building Xannepan created in game to compare it with his export.  I am still unsure if the shadows really should be tinted that blue or not.

 

Xannepan:  If your reading this and you get a chance could you render out your model for me for comparison?  I would just set Mental Ray like normal but use a material override for the renderer processing section and use an Arch and Design material with default settings change  reflections to .1 glossiness to .3 and enabled FG Only for glossy settings.  Then render a normal south preview model save it as a tiff or png and send it on over.  I have what the normal BAT4MAX5 renders should look like but I would like to compare to Chrisims's version as I do not have access to the older versions of MAX.

[zahrul3 471]

Why VRay? Wouldn't it be too heavy for most computers that regular folk can use? My computer can barely operate 3dsmax2011's MRay renderer, let alone a Vray renderer.

[Girafe 1,729]

It looks promising, I just hope that Vray render will not create a third style of render (after Simfox and Chris version). It will be too much and will mess the game and the batters.

[Bipin 3,402]

I'd say the difference looks as though it is obvious they were rendered in different manners, but not so much that they can't cohabitate. My only concern with switching to Vray would be textures. I currently use a lot of the 3dsMax Autodesk Metal, Autodesk CMU etc. for my textures, in conjunction with ones made by adding my own diffuse, displacement, bump, specular level etc. maps. Will I still be able to follow this paradigm of texturing, what will the most profound changes be?

[Droric 99]

zahrul3:  Unfortunately this isn't designed for lower spec machines.  This is targeted for users of newer versions of 3ds max and newer computers.

 

Girafe:  I am trying to match existing systems as close as possible.  I don't plan on releasing this publicly unless I can get to that point.

 

Bipin:   Material workflows would definitely be impacted by switching to VRay.  VRay supports some of the Autodesk materials but does not support all of the features.  To properly realize all of the functionality VRay has to offer you would need to switch to the VRayMtl's.  Just like if when switching from scanline to MentalRay you needed (technically not required) to switch to arch+design and newer Autodesk materials.  I believe most shaders are compatible but for speed purposes you would be better if you plan on using VRay to switch to their materials.  Speed is the main benefit to using VRay for exterior renderings as VRay can be much faster using Brute force and some of the different sampling methods.

 

Check this thread later today and I should have some in game renders comparing  VRay to MentalRay's output.

[Bipin 3,402]

zahrul3:  Unfortunately this isn't designed for lower spec machines.  This is targeted for users of newer versions of 3ds max and newer computers.

 

Girafe:  I am trying to match existing systems as close as possible.  I don't plan on releasing this publicly unless I can get to that point.

 

Bipin:   Material workflows would definitely be impacted by switching to VRay.  VRay supports some of the Autodesk materials but does not support all of the features.  To properly realize all of the functionality VRay has to offer you would need to switch to the VRayMtl's.  Just like if when switching from scanline to MentalRay you needed (technically not required) to switch to arch+design and newer Autodesk materials.  I believe most shaders are compatible but for speed purposes you would be better if you plan on using VRay to switch to their materials.  Speed is the main benefit to using VRay for exterior renderings as VRay can be much faster using Brute force and some of the different sampling methods.

 

Check this thread later today and I should have some in game renders comparing  VRay to MentalRay's output.

 

I'd be happy to see what some of these renders look like! I'd only switch to Vray if the quality of the BAT is fairly significant. As render time is seldom an issue for me, the primary benefit of Vray is effectively moot.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

How's the night lighting with Vray?

And if you could align the day light rigs with Simcity 4, that would be awesome. Simfox managed to align the back of the shadow perfectly, but the front is what I think is important.
Here is what I mean... 

^Notice shadows not aligned with each other.

 

There is actually a bit of science behind aligning the sun to the correct orientation. I personally never sat down and tried to correct it.

^This maybe a hint to fixing that problem I mentioned.


If this becomes project is successful, it would be amazing. I think EA Games should take notes from Simcity 4's content creators! ahaha

Good luck! 

, K

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The shadow issue drives me absolutely crazy but there isn't much to really do about it.

 

The reason the shadows on the BATs are like that is because that's a good angle for showing detail and the shapes of things.  If the lighting was horizontal like that it would look really weird.  But if someone wanted to experiment to see how weird they would actually look I think it would be worthwhile.

 

I have no clue why Maxis chose horizontal shadows for the in-game shadows but they're fixed in place, so there's nothing we can do. 

[Droric 99]

Bipin:  Things are moving slowly with getting the light correct.  Every time I think I am close to something that looks good I spot a small issue with it.  I think I was taking a step in the wrong direction attempting to use the physically correct lighting.  I am looking into other options for the lights including an old rig I found on the stex for an earlier version of vray.

 

kellydale2003:  No nightlighting has been even attempted yet.  I want to get the daytime scene looking good before I start on the night.  I haven't done much with the shadows either I have been trying to match existing rigs to stay consistent.

 

Jasoncw:  I never noticed them actually but now that everyone pointed them out i'm sure they will drive me crazy too!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

One variable to keep in mind while testing is a ground plane.  For both renderers if you don't have a ground plane there isn't a ground for light to bounce off of, and not a ground for the building (even if the reflectivity is low like on this grey material) to reflect.  The "problem" looks more noticeable on the shadow side of the v-ray render where it looks strangely bright, and it looks that way because it's reflecting the light grey background rather than a hypothetical ground.  And if there was a ground plane there, that part of the ground plane would be in shadow and darker, meaning the reflections on the wall would be even darker because it would be reflecting the dark grey shadows.

[Shy Dude 149]

I have no clue why Maxis chose horizontal shadows for the in-game shadows but they're fixed in place, so there's nothing we can do. 

 

They aren't fixed in place. They just happen to break if you correct them due to some issue with the LODs... unless that's what you meant.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Yeah that's what I meant. 

 

The in-game shadows are just the alpha mask from a different rotation, skewed to look like shadows on the ground.  idk if there's something inherent about the game's angles that forces the in-game shadows to be this way (if maxis did it at that angle because that would be the only angle that worked) or if they just did it that way for some other reason.

[Hamish 1,369]

I imagine they did it this way because it's really easy. They just overlay the alpha mask onto the base texture of the squares around the building. Really easy, and doesn't require a separate set of images for the shadows.