Simcity 4 isnt that great...

[Huston 5,800]

The reason it probably be hard to say "both are great" is that as much as SC2013 looks promising, being at the hands of the money hungry EA, a company which is pursuing every possible way to milk it's consumers cash nowadays just seems totally unlikely that the game will ever go as far as Cities XL and that if I were to even buy it, would probably on go as far as to play it for a year then would get totally bored after despite playing SC4 for nearly the last decade. The likelihood of the company taking on improvement suggestions doesn't all seem that promising and I have a feeling it just won't be that nudge forward from previous titles like CXL and SCS. I'm all for a nice 3D city building simulator, but I feel like I'm throwing money down the drain and probably regret ever buying it.

[Jazzmaster 716]

I think it's pretty wonderful that the world is full of people who are able to enjoy the things they enjoy without necessarily enjoying the same things as everyone else.  Yet why anybody feels the need to argue why what they enjoy is objectively better than the other thing is beyond me.

[Huston 5,800]

Some just like to express their opinion amongst all other opinions that have been stated on this thread, it's not all that bad if someone wanted to say what they thought be it negative about one thing and positive about the other. I totally respect your opinion though cause its your opinion. An argument can be a good thing until people start targeting others but most people are just pointing out what they think are the flaw of either game being discussed.

[Jahnri 21]

Logical and concise points. 

[strokesboy21 11]

i got to admit simcity 4 just doesn't hold it for me anymore the only things i miss is mass transit but used to hate the traffic simulations ect dissapearing cars at traffic lights so this reboot for me is  a breath of fresh air i can follow what people are doing and see real time whats happening traffic wise, and who knows more mass transit could come at a later date (not bothered if its dlc because im willing to support maxis) im just looking forwards to when it comes out tho it seems im the only guy who starts the city off really small and over time works his way up don't think ive ever got a truly massive city 

[nats 99]

It does look quite good. But there is the strong matter of liking the new and the fresh. Its easy to get caught up with the hype of a new game with its ground level viewpoints, blurry background and sharp foregrounds, new fresh appearance, novel mechanics and its wonderfully windy roads.

 

When you compare it to the gridded right angled cities of SC4 with its fixed isometric viewpoint and well used buildings - sure its hard not to be taken in. SC is ten years old, its done well in its time.

 

Perhaps Simcity will have everything we desire under the hood. OR maybe it will be too simplistic and remove all the control we desire in order to make it more accessible. Will it be moddable? Will it take the crown and become the new SimCity of the future. Or is it a passing fad? Who knows.

 

I will be watching this forum for news on what the game is actually like with some interest.

[MandelSoft 2,775]

So, I notice there are a few misconceptions about SimCity 4 and SimCity 2013:

• SimCity 4 is too much civil engineering: some people say that there's too much civil engineering involved in SimCity 4, making the game hard. Well guess what: civil engineering and urban planning can hardly be taken apart and therefore it's logical that SimCity 4 has founded itself on these two engineering aspects. SimCity 4 is in that respect challenging. You have to deal with restrictions real engineers have to face with too (especially when you use slope mods) and solutions aren't always simple. Besides, you can easily making mistakes of your own. One urban planner once said "rocket science is easy", because urban planning is, unlike rocket science, unpredictable due to human factors...
• There's too much micromanaging in SimCity 4: I don't understand this one. How often do you need to micromanage in SimCity 4? I rarely do. In fact, I felt that I was more micromanaging in the SimCity 2013 Beta than in SimCity 4. with all these module placements and such.
• SimCity 4 is too hard: I thought that at first too about the game, but it's easy to make mistakes. Why? Because I wanted too much too soon, and that drains your city budget. You have to be smart for this game, see what strategies work and what fails. Soon you find a way to make profitable cities, and I managed to find such ways too. With SimCity 2013, I had the feeling that it was too easy at some fronts.
• SimCity 4 gets boring because you just fill up all the tiles and finish them and never come back to them again: This is also a misconception. You should return to your old cities, see what can be done better with the new knowledge you've learned. I improved quite some of my cities multiple times with either new mods or the knowledge I've gathered. And saying that you do this quickly? Hell no! I can spend hours on one city tile just to improve it, while I think I'm done with a SC2013 tile in two hours (based upon my beta experience... and it was getting boring after just one hour.
• SimCity 2013 is a successor of SimCity 4: No one says it like this explicitly, but quite some people think this implicitly. But it's a reboot, as also quite a few of us know. This means that it's a new start of the series and that the game will have different features (not more, not less, just different). You can argue about the design choices they made, but remember that we are dealing with a different game.
• SimCity 2013 is a better simulator: Quite some people say that SimCity 2013 is a better simulator than SimCity 4 due to a better engine. However, what's a good simulation engine worth if the boundary conditions are not realistic? Would you use an advanced physics simulation within a My Little Pony adventure game? Would you use a V12 engine in a Fiat 500? I guess not. SimCity 4 offered you freedom to connect to every city in its surroundings. You could determine where you want your city connection with what network and what capacity and how many connection you would like to make. This is all restricted in SimCity 2013, making it's single-connection city approach hugely unrealistic. There is a difference between the two city building games:
  • SimCity 4 is a city simulator. Its basic goal was to simulate a city, to deal with urban planning problems like real engineers do. Entertainment was not the top priority, but it did play a role.
  • SimCity 2013 is a strategy game. Its basic goal is to entertain people, have fun.a city. Simulation is just a part that makes the game run.
• SimCity 4 has "bad" graphics/peformance: Well, what do you expect from a game from 2003? Computers were still running on Windows XP or lower (all 32-bits systems), they all had single-core processors (like Pentium III), less advanced video cards. What do you expect from a game designed for the average computer back then? Yes, I know it has some bug, and yes, it can be slow at times, but hey, the engine has not been changed for TEN YEARS, and honestly, the modding community can't change it due to legal issues... if we actually could figure out how the coding works. If you look in retrospective, then SimCity 4 actually has excellent graphics for their time. They did go for a 2.5D isometric approach so that they could show details on buildings, something that would've take up a huge amount of graphic memory back then if it was full 3D. Heck even nowadays you see that this is lacking in 3D city simulators (like Cities XL). Even in SimCity 2013 I still see "blocky" objects, like the streetlights and traffic light props. Sometimes an old technology can do things better than a new one (Windows 8 is a hideous example of this). Also, some people don't really care about good graphics if the gameplay is right. Look at the large fandom for Minecraft and OpenTTD! Both don't have the best graphics, but lots of fun and addictive gameplay.

So people, take this in mind when looking at both games

 

Best,
Maarten

[GeometryMath Algebra 614]

Well, for me, SimCity 4 is still superior to SC2013 because of the following reasons: larger city sizes, no DRM (duh!), ability to terraform, and mods. Actually, there IS a possibility that SC2013 won't have modding tools. My hint is because Maxis is releasing a $20 DLC pack, so the possibility for modding tools for SC2013 is getting lower. For people who think SC2013 is better than SC4, at March 1, the new NAM will incorporate draggable curvy roads (Fractional Angle Roads or FAR) and also, the feature that is more concentrated, the RHW mod's huge revamp will also make SC4 a better game than SC2013. In fact, SC2013's highways are integrated to the map and cannot be altered or rebuilt. There are TONS of SC4 mods here in Simtropolis and also in SC4Devotion! But there can be a time that SC2013 would have modding tools. But we can't predict it yet! And there is STILL a chance for SC2013 to have modding tools because Maxis stated that it will have mods but will not do at launch!

 

Regards,

-Geometry

[Jim14409 448]

So if a person isn't able to get it the way they invisioned there city, they aren't trying hard enough.

 

That's exactly what I didn't like - the fact that it required so much effort. And it wasn't what I'd call challenging and rewarding effort.  I always felt I was just slogging away, fiddling with minute micro-management.  With Simcity 3000, I could build what I wanted to and still enjoy the experience because the gameplay was fun - granted, it probably wouldn't still be as engaging 14 years down the line. 

Then you should buy SC2013 because it was created for folks just like you who are not interested in putting more than a tablespoons worth of effort into a game (hope same is not true for the rest of your life). They want instant easy and shallow (meaning short lived) gratification which they will soon tire of and move on looking for their next "fix."

 

Well I have great news! Your game is about to be released so celebrate and enjoy.

 

 

As for those who say SC4 is "static" well as I have said before, I find this hard to believe. They must have the game graphics all turned off or on lowest settings because all of my cities are alive with activity of many kinds. I've always heard that some folks just can't see the forest for looking at the trees.

 

Had SC2013 been based on SC4 and improvements added we would have a spectacular game coming out instead of the flash-in-the-pan many are waiting on.

 

One gets a return on the degree of their investment. Invest a shallow few minutes and get similar return. Many of us have had long lasting pleasure from SC4 because of the level of effort we invested.

[AdoxxBE 289]

I saw, I played and went back playing SC4. 

Remember SC4 is a ancient and still epic game, don't compare a game that was far ahaed to newest technology in his time to more recent SC games.

Give SC4 a new visual upgrade and I will defenitly pay €70 for that game.

 

I don't know I'm going to enjoy SC2013 as much as I enjoyed SC4, the terraforming made you ike a GOD and that's what I'm missing in SC2013.

[soldyne 111]

wow, when I read the topic my first thought was "Flame Shields UP!  Let me put on my fire proof vest before going in this topic!"

 

I was quite surprised to see so many agreeable posts on the first page.  I'm not surprised that so many people agree with the OP just that they actually posted before all the haters did.

 

anyway.  I think SC4 and SC2013 are at two ends of the spectrum.  SC4 is a great civil engineering design tool that lets you plan out a large, realistic city landscape, its great for big pictures, recreations and detailed screen shots for stories and CJs.  SC2013 is all about simulating the minute details of a small area, but, it lacks the design control of terraforming and realistic city design.  I just wish we could have both; simulation and design.  I want art and engineering. 

 

the good news is that SC2013 is still new and hopefully it will revitalize the city building concept so there is still plenty of hope we can have both at some point.

[AkemiAzula 280]

The things I will miss most from 4 are, in order of most to least:

 

Proper contiguous tiled regions and terraforming

 

While I understand Maxis/EA's decisions to compromise for better ground level realism, it will still feel like a restriction of an unecessary nature to some extent.

 

Offline play

 

While I understand the world economy and multiplayer have their strengths, we should be able to save and load and play cities after the servers shut down

 

Graphics

 

I know you all think I have just gone insane, but I am not referring to the static 2.5d. I am referring to 4's more gritty realistic style, as compared with 2013's rather 'cartoony' style

[midwestcoast 10]

I like SC4 because I don't enjoy playing games all that much in truth, and I am able to treat it more as a design project.  I like to create large regions that look good on a macro level, even though I still like to do work on a micro level in my cities.  I don't "play" the game, I use cheats so that I can build the city on an endless budget and don't look at it as though I'm creating a city through time but rather constructing a recreation of a city at a static point in time, which in turn is part of the region I am creating at a static point in time.  I like to create final products rather than play through the process of an ever-evolving city.  I realize this is certainly not what most people like to do with SC4 which is probably why 2013 is really attractive to people who actually like to use the game as intended in a simulation fashion.  For me it's about the region and that's why 2013 just won't cut it for me.

[Titanicbuff 1,262]

 

So if a person isn't able to get it the way they invisioned there city, they aren't trying hard enough.

 

That's exactly what I didn't like - the fact that it required so much effort. And it wasn't what I'd call challenging and rewarding effort.  I always felt I was just slogging away, fiddling with minute micro-management.  With Simcity 3000, I could build what I wanted to and still enjoy the experience because the gameplay was fun - granted, it probably wouldn't still be as engaging 14 years down the line. 

Then you should buy SC2013 because it was created for folks just like you who are not interested in putting more than a tablespoons worth of effort into a game (hope same is not true for the rest of your life). They want instant easy and shallow (meaning short lived) gratification which they will soon tire of and move on looking for their next "fix."

 

Well I have great news! Your game is about to be released so celebrate and enjoy.

 

 

As for those who say SC4 is "static" well as I have said before, I find this hard to believe. They must have the game graphics all turned off or on lowest settings because all of my cities are alive with activity of many kinds. I've always heard that some folks just can't see the forest for looking at the trees.

 

Had SC2013 been based on SC4 and improvements added we would have a spectacular game coming out instead of the flash-in-the-pan many are waiting on.

 

One gets a return on the degree of their investment. Invest a shallow few minutes and get similar return. Many of us have had long lasting pleasure from SC4 because of the level of effort we invested.

I'm happy with SC4. With the internet blind spot in my state its not the smarted idea to buy an online only game.

[Titanicbuff 1,262]

So, I notice there are a few misconceptions about SimCity 4 and SimCity 2013:

• SimCity 4 is too much civil engineering: some people say that there's too much civil engineering involved in SimCity 4, making the game hard. Well guess what: civil engineering and urban planning can hardly be taken apart and therefore it's logical that SimCity 4 has founded itself on these two engineering aspects. SimCity 4 is in that respect challenging. You have to deal with restrictions real engineers have to face with too (especially when you use slope mods) and solutions aren't always simple. Besides, you can easily making mistakes of your own. One urban planner once said "rocket science is easy", because urban planning is, unlike rocket science, unpredictable due to human factors...
• There's too much micromanaging in SimCity 4: I don't understand this one. How often do you need to micromanage in SimCity 4? I rarely do. In fact, I felt that I was more micromanaging in the SimCity 2013 Beta than in SimCity 4. with all these module placements and such.
• SimCity 4 is too hard: I thought that at first too about the game, but it's easy to make mistakes. Why? Because I wanted too much too soon, and that drains your city budget. You have to be smart for this game, see what strategies work and what fails. Soon you find a way to make profitable cities, and I managed to find such ways too. With SimCity 2013, I had the feeling that it was too easy at some fronts.
• SimCity 4 gets boring because you just fill up all the tiles and finish them and never come back to them again: This is also a misconception. You should return to your old cities, see what can be done better with the new knowledge you've learned. I improved quite some of my cities multiple times with either new mods or the knowledge I've gathered. And saying that you do this quickly? Hell no! I can spend hours on one city tile just to improve it, while I think I'm done with a SC2013 tile in two hours (based upon my beta experience... and it was getting boring after just one hour.
• SimCity 2013 is a successor of SimCity 4: No one says it like this explicitly, but quite some people think this implicitly. But it's a reboot, as also quite a few of us know. This means that it's a new start of the series and that the game will have different features (not more, not less, just different). You can argue about the design choices they made, but remember that we are dealing with a different game.
• SimCity 2013 is a better simulator: Quite some people say that SimCity 2013 is a better simulator than SimCity 4 due to a better engine. However, what's a good simulation engine worth if the boundary conditions are not realistic? Would you use an advanced physics simulation within a My Little Pony adventure game? Would you use a V12 engine in a Fiat 500? I guess not. SimCity 4 offered you freedom to connect to every city in its surroundings. You could determine where you want your city connection with what network and what capacity and how many connection you would like to make. This is all restricted in SimCity 2013, making it's single-connection city approach hugely unrealistic. There is a difference between the two city building games:
  • SimCity 4 is a city simulator. Its basic goal was to simulate a city, to deal with urban planning problems like real engineers do. Entertainment was not the top priority, but it did play a role.
  • SimCity 2013 is a strategy game. Its basic goal is to entertain people, have fun.a city. Simulation is just a part that makes the game run.
• SimCity 4 has "bad" graphics/peformance: Well, what do you expect from a game from 2003? Computers were still running on Windows XP or lower (all 32-bits systems), they all had single-core processors (like Pentium III), less advanced video cards. What do you expect from a game designed for the average computer back then? Yes, I know it has some bug, and yes, it can be slow at times, but hey, the engine has not been changed for TEN YEARS, and honestly, the modding community can't change it due to legal issues... if we actually could figure out how the coding works. If you look in retrospective, then SimCity 4 actually has excellent graphics for their time. They did go for a 2.5D isometric approach so that they could show details on buildings, something that would've take up a huge amount of graphic memory back then if it was full 3D. Heck even nowadays you see that this is lacking in 3D city simulators (like Cities XL). Even in SimCity 2013 I still see "blocky" objects, like the streetlights and traffic light props. Sometimes an old technology can do things better than a new one (Windows 8 is a hideous example of this). Also, some people don't really care about good graphics if the gameplay is right. Look at the large fandom for Minecraft and OpenTTD! Both don't have the best graphics, but lots of fun and addictive gameplay.

So people, take this in mind when looking at both games

 

Best,

Maarten

I perfer SC4- With what I've seen of SC2013 it looks like a cartoon in my mind- the graphics are a little to weird- I find SC4 to be the perfect SC and its so much fun. Why improve on something that doesn't need fixing. The ability to mod, The style of play, everything is perfect. I don't know why people are making such a fuss by saying that SC4 is now boring- Its all I play anymore- i get ideas in my head for a city and role with it. My City Journal shows what I do and I love how I've managed to get it the way I want it. For a look at what i do in SC go see my cj in the link http://simmania.darkbb.com/t559-teddy-city. It gives an idea that a person can make a great city.

[nhgriffith 179]

Ocean Quigley said yesterday during that SimCity 4 Ten Year anniversary stream that the game tuning will be different between what we had in the beta and what the live game release will be.

You won't be able to just fill out your city in an hour. All the civics and stuff will require a little more attention.

He said that the beta was specifically tuned so that players could get a decent sized city in an hour.

[MandelSoft 2,775]

^^ If they did that, then they released an unrepresentative Beta. It wouldn't call that good marketing... 

[nhgriffith 179]

Well, it was labeled as a beta... not a demo...

You can't have an "unrepresentative beta." The point of beta testing a game is to test certain aspects of the game. We don't know what all the tests were that they were specifically checking. The only one we know for sure of (to my knowledge) is the server stress test with the second beta.

And if you're trying to stress test the servers, I honestly can't imagine a better designed test.

First, the one hour time limit assures players are recreating a city at least once per hour. They're switching cities, loading in, loading out, etc.

And second, for testing the inter-city game play, if the real game means an hour isn't going to get you very far, then there's not much inter-city anything to do. If they tune it differently to let you build up faster, you can get a lot more going on in two different cities and get a lot of inter-city interaction going on. There'd be no point in beta-testing inter-city play in a region that has one city with 47 residents and a neighboring city with 32 jobs.

[katherman111 182]

I can't really see a comparison here... If you're thinking SC4 has the same features SC13 has you're going to be disappointed.

-On the contrary, if you're thinking SC13 has the same features SC4 has you're going to be disappointed.

 

They're two different games. SC13 is a reboot, not a successor to SC4. Also remember 10 years have passed...

Call it whatever you want but SC 2013 is the evolution of the SC series, once we have contiguous city tiles, terraforming and larger city tiles, SC4 will become a relic just like that of SC2000 and 3000.

 

But sadly that will not be avaiable in the new game. 

 

I have one message for all the people here saying that Sc4 is dull and boring. Simcity isn't a game made for you and Simtropolis isn't the place for people like you. Don't you all think that Simcity will be quick fun like games as Cod Black Ops 2, TES: Skyrim,... If you think that Simcity 4 is hard. You will encounter the same problems soon enough in simcity, why? because the people who think it's hard want too much right from the start and don't build up their town and then start big things. Ocean Quigly said it himself, you can build up a decent city in an hour and after that? Simcity 4 would take you days to build a city and you would enjoy it because with the dozens of mods and the large freedom. You could make the city you want. But back to what Ocean Quigley said, again an example of the demand to quick fun games started with games as Farmville etc. on Facebook. Sometimes a good game needs a little more time and effort to have a dozen times more fun then those quick fun games.

 

So i advise everybody who doesn't like Simcity. Please buy yourself Skyrim and all it's DLC's and go on rampage trough Skyrim to kick a bunch of dragons and other bastards. Or buy yourself Call Of Duty Black Ops 2 and go on rampage trough multiplayer. But please keep your opinions about something you guys don't know anything about yours.

 

I actually wonder how people like you would have talked about Simcity 4 if there wasn't any new Simcity coming up...

[macvirt 361]

Well, it was labeled as a beta... not a demo...

You can't have an "unrepresentative beta." The point of beta testing a game is to test certain aspects of the game. We don't know what all the tests were that they were specifically checking. The only one we know for sure of (to my knowledge) is the server stress test with the second beta.

And if you're trying to stress test the servers, I honestly can't imagine a better designed test.

First, the one hour time limit assures players are recreating a city at least once per hour. They're switching cities, loading in, loading out, etc.

And second, for testing the inter-city game play, if the real game means an hour isn't going to get you very far, then there's not much inter-city anything to do. If they tune it differently to let you build up faster, you can get a lot more going on in two different cities and get a lot of inter-city interaction going on. There'd be no point in beta-testing inter-city play in a region that has one city with 47 residents and a neighboring city with 32 jobs.

 

 

Well, to be fair, it was much more demo than beta. It's how such things are integrated in to marketing first and foremost, and on the side there's a few poor grunts trying to reach some other targets set. By the way, we do have such a thing as unrepresentative beta in our industry, but to be fair that is usually you see tied to a different format of sales & play, that of f2p online play models. 

 

Still, it is worth to keep in mind that anything that Quigley says is marketing. Pure and simple. 

[Spatzimaus 77]

You can't have an "unrepresentative beta."

 

 

Exactly.  Betas test different things, and the best way to do that is to create the conditions necessary to test the things you need to test that week.  Most MMO closed betas bump the testers up to a certain level, and provide them with level-appropriate equipment, simply because it does the developers no good to have the testers keep running the low-level content over and over.  And that's for a game where you could, realistically, beta-test long enough to achieve those levels for yourself.  We had an hour to test, and as I said before, think back to what you would have achieved in an hour of SimCity 4: in one hour, is it even possible to run out of starting money in that game?  Not exactly a good testing environment.

 

And even if you consider this to have been a "demo" instead of a "beta", what then?  What'd be the point of a demo (a marketing tool) that wouldn't give you enough time to get to the point where you could even build a school, a police station, a fire station, et cetera?  If all you had time to do was place a few zones and watch them slowly develop, how many copies of the game would THAT sell?

[macvirt 361]

 

I can't really see a comparison here... If you're thinking SC4 has the same features SC13 has you're going to be disappointed.

-On the contrary, if you're thinking SC13 has the same features SC4 has you're going to be disappointed.

 

They're two different games. SC13 is a reboot, not a successor to SC4. Also remember 10 years have passed...

Call it whatever you want but SC 2013 is the evolution of the SC series, once we have contiguous city tiles, terraforming and larger city tiles, SC4 will become a relic just like that of SC2000 and 3000.

 

But sadly that will not be avaiable in the new game. 

 

I have one message for all the people here saying that Sc4 is dull and boring. Simcity isn't a game made for you and Simtropolis isn't the place for people like you. Don't you all think that Simcity will be quick fun like games as Cod Black Ops 2, TES: Skyrim,... If you think that Simcity 4 is hard. You will encounter the same problems soon enough in simcity, why? because the people who think it's hard want too much right from the start and don't build up their town and then start big things. And that's again an example of the demand to quick fun games started with games as Farmville etc. on Facebook. Sometimes a good game needs a little more time and effort to have a dozen times more fun then those quick fun games.

 

So i advise everybody who doesn't like Simcity. Please buy yourself Skyrim and all it's DLC's and go on rampage trough Skyrim to kick a bunch of dragons and other bastards. Or buy yourself Call Of Duty Black Ops 2 and go on rampage trough multiplayer. But please keep your opinions about something you guys don't know anything about yours.

 

I actually wonder how people like you would have talked about Simcity 4 if there wasn't any new Simcity coming up...

 

The irony is that SC2013 is *not* and evolution of SC4. It is a flagship title reboot project. Something entirely different. Underneath that approach is the same type of commercial mindset that (as example) takes something like a Star Trek universe and reboots is, resulting in something well, let's say with less depth plus a change in entertainment focus. Easier reach into global volume market, easier to sell, builds on top of existing market, easier exposure and buzz because of existing userbase, and so forth. 

 

It's not a debate of good or bad, pro or con, it's just an individual choice to buy or not buy, which can still mean having seperate opinions on it.

[nhgriffith 179]

So SimCity 2013 has less depth than SimCity 4...?

[London-b 90]

SC2013 should be by default better than SC4. The fact that people feel the need to say it suggests that this game isn't really 10 years better than SC4. SC2013 should be better in every way, yet the reaction suggests that's debatable.

 

It shouldn't even be debatable, the fact that it is shows a failure by Maxis and EA. 

 

Disclaimer: This does not mean SC3013 is a bad game, or not a fun game. 

[macvirt 361]

You can't have an "unrepresentative beta."

 

 

Exactly.  Betas test different things, and the best way to do that is to create the conditions necessary to test the things you need to test that week.  Most MMO closed betas bump the testers up to a certain level, and provide them with level-appropriate equipment, simply because it does the developers no good to have the testers keep running the low-level content over and over.  And that's for a game where you could, realistically, beta-test long enough to achieve those levels for yourself.  We had an hour to test, and as I said before, think back to what you would have achieved in an hour of SimCity 4: in one hour, is it even possible to run out of starting money in that game?  Not exactly a good testing environment.

 

And even if you consider this to have been a "demo" instead of a "beta", what then?  What'd be the point of a demo (a marketing tool) that wouldn't give you enough time to get to the point where you could even build a school, a police station, a fire station, et cetera?  If all you had time to do was place a few zones and watch them slowly develop, how many copies of the game would THAT sell?

 

You should not approach those few questions from a perspective of someone who likes to go deep, who wants to puzzle and explore. At the risk of being rude (not my intention) that is not the target user. That is the average Joe the Plumber who can be guided in to a leisure format of gameplay with high messaging trending. A broad set of categories of user types which for the most part simply do not go deep enough to warrant a beta which would not function as a limited demo. 

 

Look at the marketing buzz created by the reception of the demo/beta round. Yes, in existing specific communities people ask questions and wonder how beneficial such a form of beta really is, regardless of for the purpose of marketing or the purpose of QA. The majority of messaging generated by it is what we tend to call "buzz". It does not matter what is said, as long as it looks positive, spreads out a lot, has exclamation marks and so forth, you get the idea

 

The ideal consumer for the most efficient commercial models in our industry is one who shouts a lot without speaking much, who has a focus on lower tresholds to enter an entertainment challenge, who is stimulated more by form rather than function and who can be guided not to think too much cognitively about sequential purchases of functionality and content concepts which are sold seperately from the main title release. These types of consumers are just far easier to reach, simpler to guide and hook up and they buy more than those types of users who really go deep in a gaming experience in a focus of create / replicate / puzzle mindsets. 

 

I fully realise that this sounds almost illogical. But it is fully logical. This sort of approach is what enables you the cheapest furthest reach for marketing supported sales. That is why we do these things in these ways. Technical and/or QA elements are completely secondary. At such a stage it is mere tuning, under the duress of decreasing resource allocation. That too is normal. It may not be nice, very often especially for those who work the hardest on a title release, but it is as it is.

So SimCity 2013 has less depth than SimCity 4...?

 

That is an entirely individually determined case. At best we can look at it from a theoretical viewpoint of game design. I'm sure at some point people following such trainings and education will find it was a case of study on their desks (the same as how Civ V became such an intruiging point of study for both game design, marketing, communication and business development). But that is still a very limited perspective. It is also rather cold.

 

On the consumer level, everybody has a different perspective for your question. Pointless to ask as such

Besides, on that consumer level we cannot compare the two. Different beasts, for different markets, for different times, for different targets.

[arcology 224]

 

So if a person isn't able to get it the way they invisioned there city, they aren't trying hard enough.

 

That's exactly what I didn't like - the fact that it required so much effort. And it wasn't what I'd call challenging and rewarding effort.  I always felt I was just slogging away, fiddling with minute micro-management.  With Simcity 3000, I could build what I wanted to and still enjoy the experience because the gameplay was fun - granted, it probably wouldn't still be as engaging 14 years down the line. 

Then you should buy SC2013 because it was created for folks just like you who are not interested in putting more than a tablespoons worth of effort into a game (hope same is not true for the rest of your life). They want instant easy and shallow (meaning short lived) gratification which they will soon tire of and move on looking for their next "fix."

 

Well I have great news! Your game is about to be released so celebrate and enjoy.

 

 

As for those who say SC4 is "static" well as I have said before, I find this hard to believe. They must have the game graphics all turned off or on lowest settings because all of my cities are alive with activity of many kinds. I've always heard that some folks just can't see the forest for looking at the trees.

 

Had SC2013 been based on SC4 and improvements added we would have a spectacular game coming out instead of the flash-in-the-pan many are waiting on.

 

One gets a return on the degree of their investment. Invest a shallow few minutes and get similar return. Many of us have had long lasting pleasure from SC4 because of the level of effort we invested.

 

 

 

I always wonder at the need to bash SC4 vs. SC2013? 

 

If SC2013 can stand on it's own two feet, why is SC4 brought up as being "bad". 

 

It is almost as if people have to convince themselves why they need to purchase it and spend the amount they have to for it. 

 

There would be no SC2013 without the success of SC4 (as different as they are). 

[JaceTwice 115]

it's the greatest we have so far though. (And it's pretty damn good game on top of that!)

 

 

I think it's too early to be singing the praises of SimCity2013 just yet. While I think I'm probably going to have a lot of fun with it, and Glassbox looks to be nothing short of groudbreaking, there's no telling whether it will be truly "great" until it's out and we get to start seeing it's long term potential.

[Mr Saturn64 742]

Comparing Sim City 4 to Sim City 2013 is like comparing apples and and the stuffed cow that's sitting next to my speaker.

[Hellken 1,658]

So SimCity 2013 has less depth than SimCity 4...?

 

SC (2013) makes some steps forward with the removal of the grid, 3D camera, and a more detailed simulation and many steps backward in a number of areas.

 

Let's just say that it has a big room for improvement.

[patpatty45 17]

But a game with such a great simulation will always beat out an old piece of crap. I feal like even the vanilla Simcity beats Simcity 3 due to the fact that it is so great at stimulating a city. Simcity the series is a city simulator so it would be nice of it to stimulate cities. The Simcity 4 regions look ugly and outdated and the game at a city level is dull and interesting. I rather have a limited city size but have a deep invigorating game rather than large regions that lack life.