ILL Tonkso's Review of SimCity

[cirugo 1,889]

not surprising. what I would like to know is the reason WHY the scale of the game has been reduced so drastically. Is it that the engine can't handle cities and regions of the scale of SimCity 4? Is it the fact that it's server based? what's the reason for scaling back so much?

[Urban Cartographer 601]

I recommend that you read this blog: http://sc2013thedeception.blogspot.com/ (Netuno created the blog, I believe)

It contains all the faults of the upcoming SimCity game and much of those are confirmed and Maxis had almost a decade to improve it. Too many corners were cut, especially ones that made SC4 fun for a decade.

[Maxis_MD 79]

Wow, ok this got a little too serious. Please bare in mind that I did play an early build.

I played the game at the London Eurogamer Expo at Earls Court. I wanted to get a good feel for the game, see how it played, see how in depth the gameplay experience was, all in a relatively short window (10 min).

I would like to clarify at this point that I am not necessarily saying Sim City 2013 is a bad game, what I AM saying however is that it is not the game this community is looking for. Over the years, we have built up from an already quite complex game to something truly magnificant, though for the purposes of this 'review'* it is prudent to compare to the boxed product, not the community modded product we all know and love today.

One of the great things about the Sim City series has always been the control you are given over how financial resources are distrbuted and raised. When starting a fresh new city in Sim City 4, many choose to lower the funding for city utlities to cover only what they need and maximise their income. In Sim City 2013 I was unable to find this feature and was instead presented with the option to either shut down my Power Station, or turn it back on. If this feature is indeed present in 2013, it wasn't anywhere where I could find it clearly and intuitively.

Another major issue I had, was the size of the city I was given, and the lack of terraforming to boot. Long time fans of the series have prided themselves with creating sprawling metropolises, connected by a network of Roads, Railways, Highways, Subways and even Ferries. The city sizes offered by 2013 don't seem to offer this potential, though this could be rectified with a 'region' set up, such as that in Sim City 4. The lack of terraforming however presents an issue as players - as in the real world - have always found it necessary to sometimes bend the land around their will; cuttings for railways, land reclaimation for docks, etc.

The departure from the grid is welcome, on the roads tool you are presented with the option for freeform roads or straight roads. If you wish to build on a grid pattern, you can, if you wish to follow the contours of the land, you can. Zoning hugs the roads much more efficiently than in Cities XL, though this was occasionally prone to bugs, possibly due to the nature of the early build. The inclusion of Trams is nice, the community is particularly proud of its 'Ground Light Rail' mod and this demonstrates that someone at Maxis is paying attention. There were some graphical glitches here, but again this is likely attributed to the early build.

At the moment, I am not sold on it. Gameplay wise many of my criticisms can be resolved - more control over the allocation of finances (micromanagement), the implementation of SC4 style 'region' play - though many will likely remain unresolved. One thing that has come up time and time again is the necessity of a connection to Origin, as someone with an Internet connection that likes to drop out every few hours, this could lead to frustration and is known to be an unpopular feature in contemporary titles besides.

Alas, I will not be buying at retail price (maybe on a Steam Sale?), but if you get a chance to try it, do so. Much of this community will stick to 4 I imagine, though some of you may like it.

Keep in the mind the demo you played is not only pre-alpha, but also doesn't contain all the features you'll find in the full game. Like, for instance, the ability to tinker with taxes -- you'll still be able to do that, just like you could in the previous SimCity games. All that micromanaging is definitely in the game, we're just trying to present it in a much more visually appealing and intuitive way (via the many data layers we have in the game).

Appreciate your honest opinion, though. Hopefully you'll get a chance to try the Beta once that starts (sorry, guys -- no new info at this time!) and you can better judge the game once you play around with it more.

[westy177 203]

Thanks for this in depth review from a true SC4 veteran not some sims fan. I'm not going to be buying this game. SC4 still has plenty of months to years of gameplay to offer me so i'm going to stick to SC4 for now.

[mk11232 105]

I've read recently that EA forced out Bioware founders due to the horrible reception of Mass Effect 3 and the complete and utter failure of Star Wars Online. It's interesting to read what happened and I seriously see Maxis could have a similar problem if Sim City 2013 receives the same reception of both those AAA titles. In both game installments, the developer moved away from what made the game series great.

Mass Effect was obviously the ending which was so bad and anti-traditional mass effect that they had to make emergency DLC to fix it. Star Wars online went the WOW route and trashed all the great ideas from SWG that made SWG great during its time. Similarly, Sim City unquestionably trashed most of the things we love about the series in an attempt to draw a different fan base. Yes they have added some interesting and unique changes but in the end will that outweigh the things they left out? What will EA do with Maxis if SimCity fails and with the game itself?

[nashville nelson 51]

[...] Like, for instance, the ability to tinker with taxes -- you'll still be able to do that, just like you could in the previous SimCity games. All that micromanaging is definitely in the game [...]

Does this include the micromanaging of hospitals, police stations, mass transit or power stations? Does the sentence "All that micromanaging is definitly in the game" refer to the taxes you mentioned a sentence before or to ill tonksos critique about the power station? Sorry if i´m nutpicking but this doesn´t seem clear to me.

[NCGAIO 562]

not surprising. what I would like to know is the reason WHY the scale of the game has been reduced so drastically. Is it that the engine can't handle cities and regions of the scale of SimCity 4? Is it the fact that it's server based? what's the reason for scaling back so much?

The idea of portability draws all new projects from EA.

You should be able to log in and play environments, both on the desk as portables to get the maximum possible time connected.( cloud-based)

Simple reason ... EA wants to sell services rather than products to escape the legislative control of many markets that prohibit abuses so widely discussed ( Not to mention the fiscal side )

In short it is applied to all products the same philosophy of social games making the consumer dependent on new inputs, forcing him to bring in new customers and also earn in advertising.

It's risky in the current economic situation but for those who have said that "It will change the world" it may seem very easy.

What will EA do with Maxis if SimCity fails and with the game itself?

Disassembles the studio and go ruin another title. It's what has made over time ...

  Edited October 1, 2012 by NCGAIO  

[Zombeast 69]

I still can't wait to play this game. If I would of taken every review of film I've heard over the years I surely would have missed out on many great movies.

[K-os 30]

The idea of portability draws all new projects from EA.

You should be able to log in and play environments, both on the desk as portables to get the maximum possible time connected.( cloud-based)

Simple reason ... EA wants to sell services rather than products to escape the legislative control of many markets that prohibit abuses so widely discussed ( Not to mention the fiscal side )

In short it is applied to all products the same philosophy of social games making the consumer dependent on new inputs, forcing him to bring in new customers and also earn in advertising.

It's risky in the current economic situation but for those who have said that "It will change the world" it may seem very easy.

That sounds about right. They want a pared down version of the game with that play anywhere philosophy, and to grab that potential mobile audience too. Big region gameplay with lots of micromanagement isn't worth the focus.

Now, I do think they've seen the potential of the modding talent here and acknowledge it. BUT they want to grab a share of that DLC profit so... sometime after the game comes out I envision an official EA STEX. Which may or may not come out depending on the success of the game.

Whenever the first beta comes out, the modability of the game should be able to be seen and if that truly is the plan in the future. Because frankly the base game will never be enough for the SC4 core.

[Jim14409 448]

Remember modding isn't avaiable right away in the game, it will be an expansion of some sort. Also, EA hasn't stated what will be allowed for modding so until we know that we can't gauge how the game can be fixed by modding.

Why would anyone want to spend time modding for a game that is ONLINE and access to could be denied at anytime?

[Azurespecter 506]

Yeah, yeah, still a pre-beta reease he played, still not swayed by the negativity

How much lead time do you think there is between "pre-beta" and beta?? They are not adding anything major, groundbreaking, or mechanics changing from the final months of "pre-beta" and beta. Similarly they are not adding anything major, ground breaking, or mechncial changing from the beta to release. Maybe an addon will change things after-the-fact but these things take months to get into delivery stage and what you see at beta and near-beta is the final product. Only tweeking is available to the programmers unless they republish the entire development schedule

Actually, the game beta model has changed. With the relative ease of introducing massively multiplayer online beta's, companies often times will make large gameplay changes. Some companies realize that its easier to develop the game as it's being tested in beta. Now I'm not saying this is a good game-making strategy, since I can give examples of where this has totally failed and where it's been a great success.... but the point is that we could actually see some big feature and/or gameplay changes in SimCity Beta.

  Edited October 1, 2012 by Azurespecter  

[Hellken 1,658]

Keep in the mind the demo you played is not only pre-alpha, but also doesn't contain all the features you'll find in the full game. Like, for instance, the ability to tinker with taxes -- you'll still be able to do that, just like you could in the previous SimCity games. All that micromanaging is definitely in the game, we're just trying to present it in a much more visually appealing and intuitive way (via the many data layers we have in the game).

Appreciate your honest opinion, though. Hopefully you'll get a chance to try the Beta once that starts (sorry, guys -- no new info at this time!) and you can better judge the game once you play around with it more.

Thanks for the info Maxis_MD.

[krbe 193]

Keep in the mind the demo you played is not only pre-alpha, but also doesn't contain all the features you'll find in the full game. Like, for instance, the ability to tinker with taxes -- you'll still be able to do that, just like you could in the previous SimCity games. All that micromanaging is definitely in the game, we're just trying to present it in a much more visually appealing and intuitive way (via the many data layers we have in the game).

See, this is the sort of thing that it is worth getting a heads up on from time to time, rather than the fact that it is possible to create neighbourhoods shaped like guitars with curved roads. Numbers are most definitely just as, if not at this stage more, important as screen grabs.

What is worrisome is that SC is running down a the path parallell to the one the Sims series has taken -- from being a city respectively life simulation game, to have different forms for "gameplay" introduced which is a far cry from the sandbox (Sims vampires? Etc.). It is the massive oversimplification that is dangerous. Over the years I've bought SC at least three times, because I've felt like playing a bit again. Not because someone told me how to run a city / county within predefined limits, but because sprawling waterfronts, mountain roads, island airports, office downtowns (thank you Tonks!) and abandoned ghettos in the promised land were available at your fingertips. In short, a true sandbox.

[Wiimeiser 452]

How exactly do vampires take away the sandbox?

[CXLMachine 17]

not surprising. what I would like to know is the reason WHY the scale of the game has been reduced so drastically. Is it that the engine can't handle cities and regions of the scale of SimCity 4? Is it the fact that it's server based? what's the reason for scaling back so much?

Because this game is aimed towards little children and little children cant afford real computers. "Think of the Children!" they say and thus "simcity" is reborn and already about to die. So we have 2d SC4 and a botched CXL instead to play with for years to come. Thank You EA

[VeritaScientia 150]

not surprising. what I would like to know is the reason WHY the scale of the game has been reduced so drastically. Is it that the engine can't handle cities and regions of the scale of SimCity 4? Is it the fact that it's server based? what's the reason for scaling back so much?

Because this game is aimed towards little children and little children cant afford real computers. "Think of the Children!" they say and thus "simcity" is reborn and already about to die. So we have 2d SC4 and a botched CXL instead to play with for years to come. Thank You EA

The depth of the economic engine and other things, this game would be incredibly difficult for kids to understand.

And I really really enjoy the pessimism people have about this game, like i've said before, EA could have left Maxis to die, and then a lot of the pessimists about SC13 would be whining and bemoaning EA because they didn't rescue Maxis.

[CXLMachine 17]

Yeah were bad, so were good at pessimism. I hope things turn out better as time goes on.

The depth of the economic engine and other things, this game would be incredibly difficult for kids to understand.

And I really really enjoy the pessimism people have about this game, like i've said before, EA could have left Maxis to die, and then a lot of the pessimists about SC13 would be whining and bemoaning EA because they didn't rescue Maxis.

We all suspect theyre just EA employees wearing shirts that say "MAXIS" now. Not really an independant company anymore allowed to create what they had created before.

[VeritaScientia 150]

Yeah were bad, so were good at pessimism. I hope things turn out better as time goes on.

The depth of the economic engine and other things, this game would be incredibly difficult for kids to understand.

And I really really enjoy the pessimism people have about this game, like i've said before, EA could have left Maxis to die, and then a lot of the pessimists about SC13 would be whining and bemoaning EA because they didn't rescue Maxis.

We all suspect theyre just EA employees wearing shirts that say "MAXIS" now. Not really an independant company anymore allowed to create what they had created before.

We all? No, only those who see EA as evil.

I believe Maxis is still able to do what they like, EA knows that SimCity was Maxis's flagship brand, EA realized the fault in giving a SimCity title to another developer, that's why they went back to Maxis.

Now if EA did to Maxis what HP did to Palm, I'd be a lot more apt to believe EA doesn't know what they're doing.

[CaptCity 4,893]

Once again the discussion has wandered away from the original intent. Let's keep it on topic...

[LillySatou 117]

Alas, I will not be buying at retail price (maybe on a Steam Sale?)

that's a funny joke.

[City Planner 121]

Maxis/EA stated its 2km². but I think that includes 'the buffer zone'. You can't build anything in this buffer/edge but it does contain some civic services and infrastructure.

So maybe 1.75km² is a good estimate.

The thing that I've noticed in the past with when a game makes the jump to 3D is that if the map size stays the same then it feels smaller simply because all of the objects have made the leap to 3D and are therefore larger so less can be placed on a map. So unless you increse the size of the map to accomodate for this, it's going to always feel smaller since the objects are usually (but not always) larger when placed.

To take the medium sized map from SC4 and then increase the object size is simply going to make it feel like we can't put as large of a city into the same medium sized map space unfortunately.

The more info that gets released seems to make me want to steer further and further away from SC13.

Has Maxis lost touch with the SimCity players and only see Sims players as their real cash cow?

[El Scotto 2]

Thanks for the early review. I won't be able to run the game regardless, but it's nice to know the details. Community reviews will certainly be more reliable than the critics. I'm going to guess that the critical response will be similar to Spore, which still doesn't make sense to me.

[Xenocity 343]

Thanks for the early review. I won't be able to run the game regardless, but it's nice to know the details. Community reviews will certainly be more reliable than the critics. I'm going to guess that the critical response will be similar to Spore, which still doesn't make sense to me.

Exactly, Spores was panned across the board and the expansion pack didn't help it much.

Though I liked Spores, So I must be an odd ball.

I also feel I might be in the small minority on this board who will enjoy this new Simcity as well (I mean last week's gameplay video sold me).

People also need to remember how lackluster and glitch ridden SC4 was unti Rush Hour was released and added loads of content and patches to the game.

Most people on here forgot how lacklust SC4+RH was until modding came along giving the game a much needed second wind.

Mark my words, without modding and NAM nearly all of us would have quit playing Simcity 4 by 2009.

I have a feeling Simcity 2013 will follow the SC4 model and go like this:

Simcity 2013 ------> Simcity 2013 + feature rich expansion pack -----> Simcity 2013: Modded Edition.

Also quit dissing SimTown, it was a fun game that allowed you to customize your town down to the individual buildings while managing taxes and resources (Damn Lumber Jack kept stealing my forrests)

One last note, the founders of Maxis including the creator of Simcity, bankrupted Maxis forcing them to seek a buyout in the late 90s.

EA was the only company willing to buy Maxis saving it from going out of business.

[Karybdis 34]

I would like to say don't worry too much at this point.

I almost forget sometimes how much I hated SC4 at release. Loving it but hating the limitations is what drove me to learn to reverse engineer it and help form the modd squad with the other founders in the first place.

I will certainly buy it as Maxis are personal game design heroes to me for their originality..... I can see a bunch of things possibly needing repair or fixing by us though, possibly like *cough* origin connectivity *cough*

[Essex 322]

I would like to say don't worry too much at this point.

I almost forget sometimes how much I hated SC4 at release. Loving it but hating the limitations is what drove me to learn to reverse engineer it and help form the modd squad with the other founders in the first place.

I will certainly buy it as Maxis are personal game design heroes to me for their originality..... I can see a bunch of things possibly needing repair or fixing by us though, possibly like *cough* origin connectivity *cough*

So how're you going to "repair" that when EA shuts down the server in 2014??

[jacksunny 741]

The discussion on EA shutting down the servers really needs to stop. The game hasn't been released yet and we are already speculating over this. Lets talk about some of the things that are going to be in the actual game and not when the plug will be pulled.

Regarding modding, there are likely going to be limitations, as there was with SC4. Furthermore, it may be more difficult due to the online only aspect.

[baertooth 330]

The discussion on EA shutting down the servers really needs to stop. The game hasn't been released yet and we are already speculating over this. Lets talk about some of the things that are going to be in the actual game and not when the plug will be pulled.

\

This is far too important to be left alone. I'm not putting hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into something like this if I can't guarantee I'll have something to show for it afterwards. Maybe you don't care, but I and many others do (for this and many other reasons). So no, it won't stop because the problem is obvious, even from this far away from the games eventual demise.

This and being forced to deal with other's problems are the two things right now that are really hampering me. Even more than ORIGIN or the faulty region play, which I can do stuff to deal with. But I don't have any recourse for when EA decides to pull the plug and I'm cut off from my cities.

I dread the day I log in and it says I can't or I get the message you got 30 days to gander at your city until it shuts down. Maybe for you it's nothing. For me, it's not something I want to face. And they're not giving any reassurance or plans to help deal with this problem. Which kind or reinforces they are building obsolescence into the software which means my cities have a life span. I got enough death in my life to want see my cities die too. So it needs to be hammered now that, maybe not for you, but some of us need offline play with offline saving so we can stay connected to our cities until we decide it's over not EA.

[jason leo 485]

There just too many negative comments and concerns posted in this topic. If there is still something good, why should we think too much about bad things? We must understand that EA has a plan and the developer doesn't want another fail game. Let we see about things that will happen in february 2013, be patience and don't predict something that we don't know completely. Just wait and think more about the positive side and not the negative side. We should be able to give comments, suggestions and critics to them and judge the game later, and shouldn't now ! Don't think about they will shut down the server or buffering area or graphic problems or skyscrapers is impossible. It seem that the way it works will be different with SC4, and some limitations might be exist. However, should we think that EA is evil and try to kill Maxis ? I don't think so and that thing is just too far away from the topic that we discuss here.

Another that, i do like suburban and rural areas, and not everyone love big cities. Should we complaint too much before the game is released ? Should EA and Maxis become the perfect game developer ? From my own preview, the game is still quite promising and nothing is extremely crucial thing that EA missed. When i see the video about the game, everything looks okay for me, a bit cartoonish and not the perfect one, but the features is not bad at all. If they missed some features, forgive them and then, we will know that they hear our critics or not. In my own opinion, if they want to make it become a succesful game, then they should hear to us.

Btw, thanks ILL Tonkso for your review, but there still high possibility if the game that you try is still a prototype and not the finished software.They will show the result of their work in February, not now. And don't become nuts, preventing EA from shut down the game and make us cry after losing a city that we already build is better than let it happen. The way to prevent it from become a reality is based on our own effort.

I apologize if this post is maybe a bit off-topic but i just want to remind everyone that we just talk about the review of SimCity 2013, not EA and Maxis problem.

  Edited October 11, 2012 by jason leo  

[jacksunny 741]

baertooth: I'm not saying I don't care. All I'm saying is there has been way too much speculation in this forum, and not enough discussion based on actual facts.

I do worry about the servers eventually shutting down, and EA deciding to just take everything away, and not give us an offline game to play. It's just a conversation that I feel should be saved until at least after the game is released. For now, let's talk about the features of the game, and features that have yet to be unveiled.

[Cupcake Carly 12]

The discussion on EA shutting down the servers really needs to stop. The game hasn't been released yet and we are already speculating over this. Lets talk about some of the things that are going to be in the actual game and not when the plug will be pulled.

\

So it needs to be hammered now that, maybe not for you, but some of us need offline play with offline saving so we can stay connected to our cities until we decide it's over not EA.

Absolutely positively agree with this. If nothing else is fixed, this simple concept is at least what needs to be fixed, then I can at least rest easy on my time and effort and the money spend in the first place. Why pay for something if 6 years down the road I can't use it? Especially if I still WANT to use it?