Discussion about City Tile Size

[NCGAIO 562]

The simulation is the main system hog in SC2013 and the real reason that we can't have larger maps. The map itself contains simulation elements (wind, resource layers, water table, pollution mapping, etc.), and every new street you zone adds dozens of new objects for the CPU to handle. The graphics are a mere fraction of what the game expects your computer to do.

 

 

Nothing could be further from the truth my dear ...  the new game uses the same language for data analysis than the former and any modern CPU can chew on these masked analysis , statistics and informative graphs of the new game until with  faulty chip.

 

Fasten the graphical rendering RenderWare  with the implications of the model adopted for 3D objects does not seem the best option ( renderware + new r language = GlassBox ) unless the engine is company-owned publisher,  of course.

 ( Reminds me  to the choice of  S3D simglide derived from the partnership known EA & 3dfx and the subsequent problems with the new GPU drivers )

 

But then again this is the face of the publisher is not?

 

The trick here is to maximize profits and decrease costs since consumers will rush to pre-order purchase of anything they do, even without knowing exactly how it will be.

 

Sign of the times ...

[USA_Pride 49]

It's a programming failure that they cannot support larger maps.  With today's quad core and beyond processors there is simply no excuse.

 

GlassBox is a pile of junk if it can't run on today computers.  It's like having a big shiny car with no engine in it; it's fun to look at, but you're not going anywhere.

 

Now knowing that map sizes will never be larger, I can safely say that I will not ever purchase this game.

[SAGGG 47]

It's a programming failure that they cannot support larger maps.  With today's quad core and beyond processors there is simply no excuse.

 

GlassBox is a pile of junk if it can't run on today computers.  It's like having a big shiny car with no engine in it; it's fun to look at, but you're not going anywhere.

 

Now knowing that map sizes will never be larger, I can safely say that I will not ever purchase this game.

Man, I wish I knew that before I purchased this game. To me, they conveniently told us after they checked to see if they could make the map size bigger. EA really pulled a fast one on me...

[darkaliendude 44]

It's a programming failure that they cannot support larger maps.  With today's quad core and beyond processors there is simply no excuse.

 

GlassBox is a pile of junk if it can't run on today computers.  It's like having a big shiny car with no engine in it; it's fun to look at, but you're not going anywhere.

 

Now knowing that map sizes will never be larger, I can safely say that I will not ever purchase this game.

There's nothing that says modders won't be able to make city sizes bigger. I have high hopes for this game.

[SAGGG 47]

It's a programming failure that they cannot support larger maps.  With today's quad core and beyond processors there is simply no excuse.

 

GlassBox is a pile of junk if it can't run on today computers.  It's like having a big shiny car with no engine in it; it's fun to look at, but you're not going anywhere.

 

Now knowing that map sizes will never be larger, I can safely say that I will not ever purchase this game.

There's nothing that says modders won't be able to make city sizes bigger. I have high hopes for this game.

I'd sure like to think you're right, but won't they also have to mod the Glassbox engine as well as the map size? :?

[Cobraroll 138]

I guess one could modify the system so that certain things that are handled by agents today - power and water, for instance - could be redone to be handled by statistical simulation. That should, in theory, free up resources to spend elsewhere. Also, a static connection between a house and a work space could make sims easier to simulate - as long as the house and the workplace both exist, the sim would only ever travel between those two lots. Or, heck, just randomize where the physical car/sim models go, and make traffic simulation all statistical instead. This would lead to some empty roads being branded as struggling with traffic, or roads congested with vehicles shown as being empty, but that's a trade-off between realism and resource spending.

 

I think I read somewhere that what limits the size of the cities is the pathfinding algorithms, causing agents to not find their way if the distances involved are too long. If they turned down the detailed simulation a few notches, they could allocate more resources into rendering larger cities. It could, potentially, break the very idea and identity of SC2013, but it would fix a fair few problems.

 

Not sure how much of this modders would be able to do, though. I guess most of the problems lie in the GlassBox code, at levels we aren't able to reach even in SC4, a decade after its launch. The best thing EA/Maxis could do for us in terms of tile sizing, would be starting the game again from scratch, with "being able to build a metropolis" as an unbreakable design criteria.

[derethan 1]

Persdonally i can understand how larger city tiles would be an issue. Despite what anyone here has said i have run this game on both high end I7 Laptops, desktops and my Dual X5570 Xeon workstation and the siulation uses massive amount of resources on your PC. Its not like you add a little size to the map an it ads a small amount more simulation. every inch you add to each side of the map would is a significant ammount more that can be added into a city (considering i can fit several hundred thousand sims in just a 1 inch strip top to bottom from one side of the current map). Also keep in mind that 90% of he ppl on this planet cant afford a super computer or even a higher end I7 series so its not logical to make a game that requires a 2000 dollar rig

 

I think there is a possible solution to this, however it would not increase the size of your individual city but it would give off more of a Simcity 4 style appeal of one large city broken dwn to sections. Since the map itself seem to be able to support sveral standard cities within it EA need to either allow us to cvreate regions or make some regions that are setup so that each city border connects to the other. This would give the impression of a large city broken down into sections but still maintain city sizes. Since we have seen 16 city regions (not sure if this is the limit) you could easily take a smaller region and have all 16 cities connected side by side and it would make your region seem as if it was a massive city itself.

[baertooth 330]

I think there is a possible solution to this, however it would not increase the size of your individual city but it would give off more of a Simcity 4 style appeal of one large city broken dwn to sections. Since the map itself seem to be able to support sveral standard cities within it EA need to either allow us to cvreate regions or make some regions that are setup so that each city border connects to the other. This would give the impression of a large city broken down into sections but still maintain city sizes. Since we have seen 16 city regions (not sure if this is the limit) you could easily take a smaller region and have all 16 cities connected side by side and it would make your region seem as if it was a massive city itself.

 

 

 

 

This was suggested about 30seconds after everyone found out how they were handling regions way back in the wee days of development.

[ReneXL 16]

Try Cities XL for a change, it's surprisingly entertaining, great graphics, good simulation, lot's of content (over 1000 buildings), no online, LARGE maps...
And mods... xlnation.net

[Snugies 91]

Interesting idea that agents can't go to far. I noticed this a power plant pumps out a certain number of agents per time. it seems the farther they travel along the roads the more spread out the agents get and buildings far away do not get enough agents per minute or so that they require. And a time effect if the buildings are too far away by the time cars get there the work day may be over already. The cars are moving in real time it seems but the game time is sped up. 1 minute in game is equivalent to 1 second I think.

I have noticed buildings far away via the road system do not get power even though the power plant is pumping out enough agents. therefor I have to plop another power plant near to this part of the city.

[Niego 2]

Hi) Sorry for my english, i'm russian. Recently I bought Cities of tomorrow EP and DLC with amusement park, so I've got only one question.. HOW CAN I PLAY WITH ALL THIS STUFF HAVING REALLY SMALL TILES?

Look at the Cities in Motion 2, there are many "agents", good graphics andREALLY BIG MAPS. I hope we'll have open-region building in future. 

[Snugies 91]

ya they are small especially when the oil refinery is huge wit add-ons plues oil refinery requires another large water plant and sewage plant and a lot more power that's about 15% of the map already if no hills if there are hills that's about 25% of the map.

[yessoos 0]

I guess one could modify the system so that certain things that are handled by agents today - power and water, for instance - could be redone to be handled by statistical simulation. That should, in theory, free up resources to spend elsewhere. Also, a static connection between a house and a work space could make sims easier to simulate - as long as the house and the workplace both exist, the sim would only ever travel between those two lots. Or, heck, just randomize where the physical car/sim models go, and make traffic simulation all statistical instead. This would lead to some empty roads being branded as struggling with traffic, or roads congested with vehicles shown as being empty, but that's a trade-off between realism and resource spending.

 

I think I read somewhere that what limits the size of the cities is the pathfinding algorithms, causing agents to not find their way if the distances involved are too long. If they turned down the detailed simulation a few notches, they could allocate more resources into rendering larger cities. It could, potentially, break the very idea and identity of SC2013, but it would fix a fair few problems.

 

Not sure how much of this modders would be able to do, though. I guess most of the problems lie in the GlassBox code, at levels we aren't able to reach even in SC4, a decade after its launch. The best thing EA/Maxis could do for us in terms of tile sizing, would be starting the game again from scratch, with "being able to build a metropolis" as an unbreakable design criteria.

 

What if they deliberately limited the tile size and subsequently the game code because they knew there could be problem on their side if they made cities bigger? To be fair, my 4-code cpu and the graphics card doesn't even sweat when I play 350k city. Based on this I would conclude that the GlassBox itself has a potential for handling a much bigger city. Now then, if everybody played a bigger city (say 1m+ ppl) connected to a full server, would it handle so much more data? We don't know, but what we do know is that they blame end users' computers for not being able to handle bigger maps. Now we also know that they modified hundreds of lines of code to allow fans play offline. I'm waiting for the update 10.0 and more info on this cause I hope that they designed the game so that it will not use external (server's) resources anymore and that + new agreement that actually allows for using mods will bring the door wide open for the modding community.

[SAGGG 47]

I just got a terrible feeling: That when EA allows for offline mode, they'd be afraid if the mods could make bigger maps, then more people would go offline. This would undercut their wanting to use online, and thusly EA would not allow said mods to have the ability to create bigger maps. Am I being paranoid, or do I have an actual point?

[ZackEsterhuizen 2]

quick question?

I've been seeing tons of youtube tutorials about people downloading a Mod that allows you to build freeways and place non RCI buildings outside your city tile, 

is this a legal Mod and if so, where can i find one for Mac?

 

Oh, and the problem i have with the silly small tiles is, it doesn't look like a natural city, i can't use most of the factories and mines and cool things cos i never seem to have enough people to do the jobs, i always have tons more jobs than people, i want to build a large city centre with surrounding urban and large suburban areas and surrounding farms (one more thing that can make the game cool, it can link with trade and fright to commercial), with a 2km tile, it should be called "Simtown"

[yessoos 0]

I just got a terrible feeling: That when EA allows for offline mode, they'd be afraid if the mods could make bigger maps, then more people would go offline. This would undercut their wanting to use online, and thusly EA would not allow said mods to have the ability to create bigger maps. Am I being paranoid, or do I have an actual point?

 

FYA they already allowed modding + the offline mode is coming as well. I bet that majority of players chooses offline mode anyway and I guess that Maxis/EA finally realized it.

[SAGGG 47]

Right, but my point is would EA allow the mods to then create bigger maps in offline mode?

[Cob92 360]

quick question?

I've been seeing tons of youtube tutorials about people downloading a Mod that allows you to build freeways and place non RCI buildings outside your city tile, 

is this a legal Mod and if so, where can i find one for Mac?

 

Oh, and the problem i have with the silly small tiles is, it doesn't look like a natural city, i can't use most of the factories and mines and cool things cos i never seem to have enough people to do the jobs, i always have tons more jobs than people, i want to build a large city centre with surrounding urban and large suburban areas and surrounding farms (one more thing that can make the game cool, it can link with trade and fright to commercial), with a 2km tile, it should be called "Simtown"

 

It would be better if the commuting actually worked properly. From the way the numbers are, it looks like the game was designed for some cities to serve as bedroom communities to other cities where the jobs would be. After all, if you zone to satisfy demand in one city, you will end up with twice as many jobs as workers. Problem is that when you try to build a suburb to serve your employment center, people won't go to work and the city fails. Again, a great concept by Maxis that fails in execution.

[ebalosus 19]

Right, but my point is would EA allow the mods to then create bigger maps in offline mode?

 

Friend, I keep asking that question everywhere to Simcity devs, quoting what a developer said in this interview: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/14/maxis-simcity-online-opposition-was-clear-ahead-of-launch

 

Alas, I have yet to hear a reply unfortunately.

[SAGGG 47]

Thank you for the article, ebalosus. I'm hopeful some mod will make a larger map.

[MassDaGod 16]

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...
 
So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 
 
I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

[Darth Apple 54]

 

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

That assumes that city tile sizes are not hardcoded into the engine. If they are, it will be extraordinarily difficult to create larger city tile mods. We shall see...

[USA_Pride 49]

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

I hope you're correct; that modding can bring larger city sizes.

However, I'm extremely skeptical.  Modders have done so much for SC4, but I don't think they were ever able to achieve a modification of that nature.

[yessoos 0]

 

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

I hope you're correct; that modding can bring larger city sizes.

However, I'm extremely skeptical.  Modders have done so much for SC4, but I don't think they were ever able to achieve a modification of that nature.

 

 

If you played SC4 you know well good that a mod of this nature simply wasn't needed. With 3 tile sizes and adjacent borders there was more than enough space to create absolutely anything. 

There is just too much empty space between cities in SC2013 - space that begs to be utilized and I hope that sooner rather than later we'll all get that opportunity to build larger and better, thanks to modding community.

[USA_Pride 49]

 

 

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

I hope you're correct; that modding can bring larger city sizes.

However, I'm extremely skeptical.  Modders have done so much for SC4, but I don't think they were ever able to achieve a modification of that nature.

 

 

If you played SC4 you know well good that a mod of this nature simply wasn't needed. With 3 tile sizes and adjacent borders there was more than enough space to create absolutely anything. 

There is just too much empty space between cities in SC2013 - space that begs to be utilized and I hope that sooner rather than later we'll all get that opportunity to build larger and better, thanks to modding community.

 

I certainly agree with you about the need and reason, I just don't think modding will get us there.  I would love to eat crow on this subject.

[CapTon 592]

 

 

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

That assumes that city tile sizes are not hardcoded into the engine. If they are, it will be extraordinarily difficult to create larger city tile mods. We shall see...

 

He's right. Assuming that the sizes of the city tiles are not a part of the core game files (which cannot be altered in SimCity 4, and cannot be altered in SC2013), it is probably possible to change the sizes.

 

But in altering the sizes, you'd also have to alter the terrain so it would fit the new city sizes accordingly, and that doesn't sound all too easy.

[MassDaGod 16]

 

 

 

Some of y'all forget that "Offine mode" = "Mods" = "adjusting city sizes" and a plethora of other things...

 

So to the people still complaining about the city sizes AFTER the info about offline player, RELAX.. If you knew any better, you would know that this is 1 of the FIRST things modders will fix once the game goes offline... 

 

I would give it 3 or 4 days after the offline play is released before we see the 1st "make the city size bigger" mods.

 

That assumes that city tile sizes are not hardcoded into the engine. If they are, it will be extraordinarily difficult to create larger city tile mods. We shall see...

 

He's right. Assuming that the sizes of the city tiles are not a part of the core game files (which cannot be altered in SimCity 4, and cannot be altered in SC2013), it is probably possible to change the sizes.

 

But in altering the sizes, you'd also have to alter the terrain so it would fit the new city sizes accordingly, and that doesn't sound all too easy.

 

The reason why I said possibly Modding = Bigger City Sizes is because we already know that building outside of the city limits it Possible already.

 

there are already devmode-cracks that have been played w/ and we have seen people mess with the highways, plant trees outside of the size limits already on youtube, and this stuff was cracked literally within a month of the game coming out last year with limited resources...

 

Im almost sure if we have offline mode it would even further being able to develop cities outside of the city perimeters... even camera angle hacks to allow us to look at the whole region...

 

 

Just think about it.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

A general reminder:

 

We're yet to fully understand what extent the game can be modded after Update 10.

However, discussion on methods to illegally exploit or crack software is not permitted at Simtropolis.

 

This includes modifying core game files as prohibited in SimCity's modding guidelines.

 

-Cyclone

[cshmech 30]

 

I think there is a possible solution to this, however it would not increase the size of your individual city but it would give off more of a Simcity 4 style appeal of one large city broken dwn to sections. Since the map itself seem to be able to support sveral standard cities within it EA need to either allow us to cvreate regions or make some regions that are setup so that each city border connects to the other. This would give the impression of a large city broken down into sections but still maintain city sizes. Since we have seen 16 city regions (not sure if this is the limit) you could easily take a smaller region and have all 16 cities connected side by side and it would make your region seem as if it was a massive city itself.

 

Looks like a valid solution to me. The current region play makes it look like an under 12 (age) game. And also I would like to stay in control of how I connect to my neighboring cities... roads, rails, metro.. leave me to decide. 

 

 

 

Try Cities XL for a change, it's surprisingly entertaining, great graphics, good simulation, lot's of content (over 1000 buildings), no online, LARGE maps...

And mods... xlnation.net

 

I've been playing CitiesXL for quite a while now after the SIMCITY screw up. But I feel like the UI in this game is a little bleak. Everything in this game is just red and green and no numbers.. If I plop a power plant, to this day I have no idea how many units/tokens of power that is gonna produce! And also I miss the 'news' that would appear on this SC4.. criticizing my work as a mayor.

 

 

 I hope we'll have open-region building in future. 

 

I'm hoping the EA would at least do that!

[nightbird615 1,430]

I agree with Alex Macnamara.   The only thing that bothered me about SC4 is I didn't like all the different sized "city zones".   I want ONE HUGE MAP where I can just spread out and build a massive city.  

 

If SC5 doesn't give that option or least make for larger tile maps (cities), then I, and others I know who feel the same way, will not buy.   The community has to vote with their wallets until the makers get it and do it RIGHT! 

 

I don't understand how 10 years after SC4 (which was done magnificently), with the technology available today, that the makers managed to botch this game!    I'm hopeful they will address our issues/concerns and take the time to make the game so much better than SC4 and then they will reap the financial rewards of their hard work.