Nofunk's BAT Thread

[nofunk 1,933]

.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I'm eating oatmeal.

edit:  With peanut butter

edit: I'd just say it's a 1x8, and then I'd ignore real life's dimensions and just work off the 1x8 idea.  I don't think a 1x8 is too crazy of a lot for an industrial, since industrial is just sorta zoned in big chunks anyway.  I think a lot of people probably zone 8 tiles deep too (4 from each road) so that fits pretty well.  Then you won't have to try and figure out RL measurements, you'll just need to look at proportions and scale those proprtions to fit a 1x8.

So I think a mix between 1 & 2, but don't do 3 or 4.

I don't know what to say about pictures though.  I'm surprised there aren't more of them for such an important place.

[SimFox 801]

Nofunk:

Hm.. I feel completelly lost after reading your post about dimensions. I, to be honest see no logic in your reasoning...

First of all I see no reason for you doubting measurements given by museum. On what basis?? For instance when you say "Now you'll notice that the building is almost but not quite as tall as it is wide. That would give it a height of, let's say, 54 ft." Why? How you have decided on 54 ft? If you look more carefully at the picture and may be make some measurements you'll see that Building is about 1/6 wider then it tall. this will give estimate of something about 47 ft of height

Then this "The only problem is that garage door, which is most definitely not 18 ft tall" well yes.. but why should it be 18 ft tall? where's problem in that?

"In addition to being in a very precarious position, the top little nofunk would be at most about 42 ft off the ground. Clearly the building is not 14 ft wider than it is tall, so this can't be right" What this is suppose to mean?? You say "clearly"... really? it isn't clear to me at all why it is clear, or for the matter of fact where is this 14 ft difference came from? Anyway you do way too may "lets assume"s

BTW there is a measure tool in Google Earth which is very precise (tested it on few structures i surely know size of) it also provides measurements in all common units in both Metric and Imperial systems. It is found in Tools -> Ruler

BTW building measures exactly as museum data suggests.

As for what should you model.. well do the whole complex cause just this long building will be not to realistic in either real world - there will be and is something else on the site, or in game... Of course if you could come up with some busy lot...

[nofunk 1,933]

SimFox: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you did not mean to come across as rudely as you sound in your comment. I am extremely new to the BAT -- have only really been designing for the past month or two, and from my perspective, the dimensions didn't seem right to me.

I meant my last post to be mostly humourous, but you seem to have missed that part.

[mntoes 270]

Great work! Can we have this thread re titled please..... take out the word Novice.

[nofunk 1,933]

mntoes: Haha, thanks! (Although after you read the update below, you might decide that I'm still a novice.)

UPDATE

The John King Bookstore started off on the wrong foot tonight:

After saving the building into a separate gmax file and merging it into a new scene, I was able to get the BAT exported, but there are still some glitches in the render. They're not too noticeable, but I want to try and render again. Regardless, this looks better, huh?

(There must be a book sale going on -- look at all those people!)

The one thing I've noticed in gmax with this BAT is that it doesn't want to be centered. I grouped the entire BAT, minus LODs or any lighting I didn't put on it, and centered it, but it's off center. The only thing a novice such as myself can imagine is that there is some piece of geometry sitting outside of my model. The problem is, I can't see anything. Do UVW maps affect this? I am also guessing that it might somehow explain the two or three strange "seams" in the current render. (Take a look at the corrugated texture just above the entrance in the last screenshot, for example.)

And I'll be gosh-darned if gmax is going to mess up that corrugated texture! I spent too much time getting it right. Speaking of textures, I also changed the roof texture.

[marc 13]

This looks great! You're probably right about the centering- some small forgotten piece of geometry (or a fragment of one, like a broken mesh or mesh point) might be causing the bat to appear off center- but then wouldn't your preview and final renderings also look off center?

Regarding the seams in the renderings, apparently that is a common problem with some batters. Many of my bats have them, and I have seen them on many of other batters' works too. (It could be gmax's limitations or the way we're texturing.) I remember Odainsaker had a similar question about the way the Tower Life building was rendered. I don't know if there's any practical solution to it. You could try re-rendering if you feel like it.

[SimFox 801]

NoFunk:

I’m sorry if my post offended you, that wasn’t my intend. But to be honest I still fail to see what exactly in it was so rude? The simple fact that I’m disagreed with some of you claims and calculations? Or asked for clarifications of some statement that I haven’t found self evident?  Basically you make public statement.

Humorous part is fine with me, and Little Green Nofunk was cute and all… I just wondered how you came up with those numbers... and as those numbers were key of your doubts I thought it was appropriate to comment of those.

Anyway, take it easy and don’t get upset so readily.

I wish you great success in you BATing!

Take care!

Again Sorry I’ve inadvertently offended you.

As for your troubles with Book Store building. I’m in agreement with you on the reason it refuses to center. It most probably single vertex and this is a reason you can not see it!

Check all your objects that are converted into Editable Poly or Editable Mesh and click on “Remove Isolated Vertices” button in Edit Geometry Roll-out.

IT could be also that this stubborn vertex is all that remain of object you’ve deleted in that mode… so do the inventory… see if all the objects listed in the scene are needed and visible when turned on. Remove those that aren’t.

 

As for tha seam lines.. that has nothing to do with rendering itself, but rather with how pieces of the building are assembled in LOT Editor or game. I think some help for this could be then new script that was posted on SC official site…

[6underground 11]

Simfox

I'm sorry if my post offended you, that wasn't my intend. But to be honest I still fail to see what exactly in it was so rude? The simple fact that I'm disagreed with some of you claims and calculations? Or asked for clarifications of some statement that I haven't found self evident? Basically you make public statement.

Humorous part is fine with me, and Little Green Nofunk was cute and all... I just wondered how you came up with those numbers... and as those numbers were key of your doubts I thought it was appropriate to comment of those.

Anyway, take it easy and don't get upset so readily.

I wish you great success in you BATing!

It's not necassarily the content of you posts SimFox it's your aggressive tone in them that offends people. Ive noticed this twice in your comments. You just need to be more diplomatic in your posts rather than aggressively airing your comments in a dominating fashion.

Thats all. =D

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I agree with 6underground.

Nofunk, it looks great in game.  The new roof is a big improvement.  The windows turned out really well too, and, well, so did the rest of it! lol  If you do the same good job on Piquette it'll turn out even better.

For the centering issue, I'd just manually center it.

And you're not really a novice anymore, lol.  So far you've been making BATs better and faster than a lot of people who no one would consider novice.

[nofunk 1,933]

BURTON MEMORIAL TOWER RELEASED!

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17260

Built in 1936 and designed by architect Albert Kahn, the Burton Memorial Tower stands 212 feet (73 meters) above the main campus of the University of Michigan, in Ann Arbor. Its bell tower houses the 43-ton Charles Baird Carillon -- the fourth heaviest musical instrument in the world! This is a faithful recreation of the actual building: the only liberties taken have been with the lot design of the educational building.

A very special thank you goes out to Jasoncw for the modding and lot design; JBSimio for the custom queries; and T Wrecks for the readme. And of course, thanks to everyone who has given me such valuable feedback in my BAT thread!

---

marcszar: Thanks! Jasoncw explained that the texture glitches that sometimes crop up on BATs are due to how SimCity4 builds the LODs and there's essentially nothing that can be done about it. Kind of disappointing, but what can you do?

SimFox: No hard feelings. I think emotions and intentions always come across very poorly on the internet -- it can be very difficult to "read" someone's intent just from words on a computer screen. I really appreciate your input and I hope that you will continue to share it!

Jasoncw: Thanks, bud! I'm really pleased with how it turned out -- texture glitch aside. Maybe I'll take "Novice" out of my thread title (I can do that, right?)

---

UPDATE

I do not have any images to show you tonight, but I have been slugging away at the new Ford Piquette Plant, and I have done some (but not much) more work on Cadillac Tower. Still, Cadillac is very close now... I basically have one wall and the roof to finish. But at about 200,000 polys now, work is very... very...... very......... slow.

John King Used & Rare Books is off to be modded, so that will be my next upload! Look for it within the next week or two!!

I hope everyone is doing well. And I hope to have something really substantial to show you come this weekend!

[Chris M 406]

I just love the Burton Memorial Tower! BTW, I see Cadillac is at 200,000 polies. Do you need any help rendering it? I would be glad to help if so!

[6underground 11]

The tower looks delicious. I adore it! =D

[SimFox 801]

the tower is really impressive!! One of the best and most appropriate night lighting I've seen. May be just a tinny bit for the roof itself... BTW would roof be seen from the ground??  It is sooo good that it kind of odd to see it just like hat on the side of the street... I think monument like this demands and deserves sort of plaza for itself!!

[jacqulina 162]

the tower is awesome and it sure looks great at night

[nofunk 1,933]

DragonAnime: Thank you!! And thanks for the offer to render -- I'll let you know. The largest thing I have rendered so far was only around 25,000 polys... Cadillac is at 173,000 and I still have a wall and the roof to BAT. Is render time just geometric, i.e., if it took me x minutes to render 25,000 polys, it will take me 7x minutes to render Cadillac? Or do I run the risk of locking up my system with something this large?

6underground: Diolch yn fawr iawn! I'm really glad you like it.

SimFox: Thank you! Yeah, I'm starting to think that maybe the STEX rating suffered a little because I didn't put it on a more elaborate lot. However, in real life it is just standing on concrete. (Of course, it is at one end of a larger plaza...) I wanted to keep the lot minimal so that people could fit the building however they wanted into an academic or cultural campus in-game. The 1x1 gives you the most flexibility. Maybe I should have included a larger lot, though...

jacqulina: Thanks Jacky! I can't wait to see how you'll use it in Paradise Falls!

UPDATE

I'll keep this short: Dare I???

[Spike345 20]

That would be AMAZING!

[Chris M 406]

Originally posted by: nofunk DragonAnime: Thank you!! And thanks for the offer to render -- I'll let you know. The largest thing I have rendered so far was only around 25,000 polys... Cadillac is at 173,000 and I still have a wall and the roof to BAT. Is render time just geometric, i.e., if it took me x minutes to render 25,000 polys, it will take me 7x minutes to render Cadillac? Or do I run the risk of locking up my system with something this large?quote>

You're welcome.  With my knowledge of BATing and rendering, I would have to say poly count is what really causes buildings to take longer at rendering.  When I first started BATing, one of my larger towers had an ungodly poly count like 225,000 polies and I set it to render when I went to leave for the day, it was still rendering once I came home that night (which had to be like 14 hours or longer) and then I tryed rendering again over night and during the day which was nearly 20 or so hours!

But, now that I'm more experienced with the BAT, I can try a few tricks on Cadillac to get the poly count lower, thus getting it to render faster. 

[budweiserdude23 80]

If you want to become good friends with clone and array. The detailing is your killer here...nonetheless good luck should you pursue to model this bad lad.

[Sim shady 12]

omg!!!!!!!!! if you will be able to do this i'll give u 100 bucks! not really...but still god is that beautiful!

[SimFox 801]

OMG!!!

what is it???

[Jasoncw 11,840]

lol, it's Book Tower from Detroit.  http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=%22Book+Tower%22

You can dare!   But remember if you do it you need to do a perfect job on it!

I'd do a bunch of practice exercisses first though, to get warmed up to that kind of detail making.

Luckily though, I don't think there will be any problems with photo references for Book Tower.  It's well photographed, and I don't think there are any parts that hide (unlike all of the buildings I seem to do, lol).

[nofunk 1,933]

I want to keep this short so I will respond to comments tomorrow, but I wanted to show you all a few pictures of the progress I made on the Ford Piquette factory tonight. It's coming along a lot faster than I had expected. Of course, I still have a long way to go.

Don't pay attention to the roof -- I textured it just for the preview, but I will be changing it before it's finished.

And for reference:

[jacqulina 162]

hi there i will see what i can do in paradise falls when i have built the village up but i think i know allready where im going to put it and i think you will like it,that building you are thinking of doing will be a big achievement for you the detail is going to be a pain but i think you can do it.the ford building is great some great progress there.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

That's some nice progress there! Somehow that plant looks like one of JB's Smalltown USA buildings stretched to insane proportions in the back.

I guess the brick texture is not the final one, or is it? I'M asking because it's too brown and too regular and even compared to the real thing. Another aspect that caught my attention was that the buildign once more looks squashed. It's especially noticeable on the first floor windows, which are very tall and thin on the real building, but almost squares on your BAT. One more thing that's not really close to the original yet is the window frames, both in colour and in shape.

However, seeing how your previous uploads turned out in the end, I don't have the slightest fear that any of these points will be forgotten. Keep it up!

[JBSimio 152]

Lol @ T Wrecks. It's funny because it's kind of true!

Off to another great start, Nofunk. I would agree that it looks a little squashed though. The front is pretty close, but I especially notice it on the side along the top. The window arches and the crown detailing both seem to get lost from the SC4 angle. Jason taught me a trick on arches that may help. I now usually make the arch and then scale it up 115-120 before attaching it to everything else. It has really helped a lot in keeping them from flattening out in the render views. Just a thought... he could probably explain it better if it will help.

JB

[nofunk 1,933]

DragonAnime: Oh wow! And you're telling me your PC didn't melt down after 20 hours of rendering?!

Spike345, SimShady, SimFox, jacqulina: That gorgeous building above is the Book Tower and, at 37 floors, was Detroit's first skyskraper. I desperately want to BAT it, but I am a little intimidated by the "decorative gargoyles, shells and 20 foot maidens" involved.

T Wrecks: I haven't scaled it up yet, which is why it looks squashed. I agree with you on the brick texture -- I'll have to design my own, I think. I'm not sure what you mean about the windows though. You're right that the frames are not black like they look now -- I haven't textured them yet -- but what about the shape? Each pane is made up of 6 smaller pieces of glass; except for the large arched windows on the 3rd floor which are 3 sections, 2x2, 3x2, 2x2 ... which is what I've got. The bottom windows seem to have metal grates on them, which I haven't added yet. I think part of the problem might be it not being scaled -- because everything looks shorter and wider than it should. Also, both the bottom and the top windows are arched but it's hard to tell on the side due to SC4 angle. I'll see if I can fix the scaling/render view issues tonight, but I'd be curious to know more of your thoughts on the windows.

JBSimio: I'll definitely try the suggestion about the arches, b/c they do look very squashed. It's going to take some work though *cringe*. Do you just scale them up vertically, or do you pinch them as well?

EDIT: T Wrecks & JB -- it's funny b/c looking at it last night I was very tempted to just break off the front 1/3 of the building and make a little factory with it. I was actually thinking about how perfectly it fit in with JB's work on the SHUR project. Ha!

[jacqulina 162]

i think it might be worth a try,i think that you can do it

[bixel 1,223]

@ nofunk You have awesome super-fragilistic-expyalidoshious-funkitron stuff there!! As for properly centering building I know sometimes when a lot of geometry is grouped together or groups of groups the center can be off even when set to 0,0. Here is a simple and easy trick I figured out to solve that problem. 1st turn the draw snap button to on...then go to the customize grid menu and select vertex and make sure grid is unselected. Then from the top-down view draw a rectangle snapping frm the furthest edge to the opposite furthest edge of your building. You should now have a rectangle with the perfect dimensions as the entire building grouped. Check the x, y coordinates. If the coordinates say something like x3.72 y-1.87 then simply select the grouped building and move it to x-3.72 y1.87 and it should be perfectly centered...delete the rectanlge..double check LODs and render.

[JBSimio 152]

Actually... looking closer at the type of arches you have, I would try the scaling trick with the spline itself (arch attached to window opening) but before attaching all the window openings to the wall. (I hope that makes sense) I don't normally have to pinch the sides together, just scale vertically. Normally I do this on "full arches" which is not what yours are, so that's why I've changed the suggestion a little.

@Bixel: That's such a simple trick, I'm almost mad that I never thought of that. Thanks!

JB