Nofunk's BAT Thread

[spa 968]

That new tower looks like it'll be interesting. Should fit well with Ill Tonkso series of 2x2 office towers. As for the borders, it's a great little bat and Twrecks work in the lot editor is just the finishing touch it needed. I'll be downloading it when it comes to the stex.

[6underground 11]

That clocktower is just beautiful!

[JBSimio 152]

Cadillac Tower should be a fun one to do.  It looks to be a pretty straight forward building with just enough details to keep it interesting.  I'll be interested to see what you do with the blank wall, too.  From "our" standpoint... the mural would be sweet to see (or maybe even a prop family with both murals), but that might take away some mass appeal.  Hmmm...

Good luck with your latest.  In the meantime, I'll be waiting for the files when they're ready.  Speaking of which... "Simtropolis MVP"... me??? Let's not get carried away, huh? 

Oh yeah... the lot looks great, T Wrecks!  Sorry... didn't want to leave that out.

JB

[nofunk 1,933]

T Wrecks: That looks just fantastic! I wouldn't change a thing. Thank you so much for your help on this!

jacqulina: Thanks! I sure hope you're clearing some land in Paradise Falls for a beautiful clock tower!

cammo2003: Thank you! My plan for Cadillac Tower at this point is to design it accurately first (i.e., with the blank wall) for posterity and for people in the Barry Sanders Project (or anyone else) who might want the accurate recreation. Then I will release with it an alternate set of files, with that blank wall designed like the three other walls, for people who might not want a 40-story wall of brick towering over their skyline.

That's the plan, anyway.

spa: Thanks! Yeah, I think Cadillac's a great building, too. And it'll be nice to have some mid-rise (although at 40 floors I suppose this isn't a mid-rise) older buildings in the game.

6underground: Thank you! That means a lot coming from someone who does beautiful work himself. (Odeon is looking magnificent!)

JBSimio: I explained what I'm going to do with the blank wall to cammo2003 above. You'd better believe there will be at least one version of this released with a mural!

Totally an MVP. Yep.

QUICK UPDATE

Got a little more added to Cadillac Tower tonight. I'm having a bit of a hard time deciding which details should be modeled and which should just be done with textures. the problem is so many of the details are not quite big enough for modeling, but maybe not small enough that texturing would do them justice.

This sort of stuff, for instance.

In any case, here's where I am:

Still looks sort of small, too, but it's the right size...

[nofunk 1,933]

UPDATE

I hate to bump my own thread... I hope this is OK.

I uhh... got  a little more work done on Cadillac Tower tonight. Just a little...

I guess I was too afraid to watch the game after last night. (Of course, it didn't matter 'cause it was postponed anyway.)

I probably should have been texturing all this time... (Some of it is textured, but all that terra cotta... !!)

[spa 968]

Wow that's tall, especially for a 2x2. Nice details though. Your "little" bit of work seems to be paying off.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Here I am with some news on the Borders Bookstore.

I decided to pick the funky ants icon for the landmark version and the sober "Borders" icon for the plop version. I reckoned the ant icon might get a smile and a nod of acknowledgement by those who are familiar with the building and prefer the landmark version for nostalgic reasons, whereas the sober icon will be ideal for people who go for function. Both icons will appear grouped together, have the item order property set to 3 like the BSP Detroit Free Press Building, and they are labeled with what they are. In the second picture, you can see the situation after adding the plop with jobs and grouping the icons.

        

(Please note that meanwhile the placeholder zeroes in the landmark icon hover query have been replaced by the actual values.)

The description texts are suggestions by me and open to any changes and suggestion you BSP guys want to make. There is no credit for a custom query in the plop lot as I assume that growable and plop will use the standard query whereas the landmark version will feature one of JB's masterpieces, which I suggest should be amalgamated with the landmark lot file directly to reduce clutter.

Speaking of amalgamating and reducing clutter, I have merged the files in a way that each version will come in one single file, and I have deleted all superfluous internal files, shaving off some bulk and making these puppies impossible to upload on the pirate kiddie playground known as the Maxis Exchange.

EDIT

If you take a veeeery close look at the menu bar, you can spot some super-secret *cough* 1337 projects I'm working on - a cookie for those who guess what they are.

[JBSimio 152]

Those look great, T Wrecks! Actually, I had planned on doing queries for both versions and merging them into the model file. Since the PNGs will be in there anyway, one more UI file won't really change the file size that much... and it will still be available no matter which version is or isn't installed. Of course... that's only if Nofunk wants custom queries on all the versions! We haven't really discussed this one yet, so I'm not sure which he prefers.

JB

[jacqulina 162]

im sure your beautifull clock tower will fit in somewhere in paradise falls

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Sounds good to me, JB. I'm waiting for a word from nofunk, and if he says custom queries for plop and LM are okay, I will add the credit line for your query to the LTEXT and send the files back to nofunk and you. Any text changes suggested by nofunk can be added, too.

Afterwards, the files would be completely finished except for the query, which I suppose is added using the iLive Reader.

Do you guys want to stick to the readme scheme I made for Jason's DFP Building? If so, I could wrap that up while you are busy with the queries...

Oh, and another question to nofunk: I have Jason's permission to translate and upload his BATs (both BSP and non-BSP) on the German fansite simszone.de. Would you mind me translating and uploading your stuff there as well? It won't happen anytime soon, but when we have collected enough stuff of a kind to make one homogeneous upload package.

[mntoes 270]

Nofunk - This building looks great. How on earth did you manage to get the detail showing under the windows. Is it in the texture or a seperate extruded part? I can't seem to get the nack of this sort of stone detail yet. Can you please post a picture of how you managed it.? Such fine detail. Thanks.

[nofunk 1,933]

spa: You're right, it does look really tall for a 2x2. But both Jasoncw and I measured this and the building's footprint is a very solid 2x2. Keep in mind this is a 40-story building IRL! For what it's worth, this isn't going to go up much farther -- there are only 4 more floors and then the roof detail. Also, once I scale it properly the building will be about 2 m wider. (Not that 2 m will make it look any shorter lol.)

This will give you a good idea of how it will look in proportion to other Maxis buildings. Tall, yes, but not out of place.

jacqulina: That makes me glad!

T Wrecks & JBSimio: Those custom icons and descriptions look phenomenal! TW -- I'll pm you.

I'd also welcome any feedback from JBSimio and anyone else in BSP (or really, anyone else for that matter). But personally I think these look great as is.

Along with JBSimio, I'd say let's put custom queries on all versions. In fact, when I think about it, I wonder if we should even have an LM version. What do you guys think? I just assume everyone will use the CS$$ ploppable or allow it to grow. I'd love to hear your opinions on that, too.

I haven't looked at the readme for the DFP Building since I first installed it, but I'm sure it's fine. I'll take a look and let you know. Also, I'm perfectly fine with you uploading these to simszone.de!

mntoes: All that detail is extruded! For some of the details I will try to use textures, but these are the real deal. They're very quite simple, actually. Each horizontal is just an extruded rectangle that runs the width of the building. I then designed frames out of rectangles to the right dimensions and within each of these I nested an extruded square that I rotated 45 degrees. The frame and boxes are extruded 0.1 more than the horizontal, so when they're seated together, the details stick out. Here's a screenshot:

Of course, the real-life building has more detail, but this would all be lost in the game. What I've done is a very close approximation. Hope that helps!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yeah well, I also asked Jason and he said he is more into having a basic hover query like all Maxis landmarks and save the text for the query window. I wouldn't have a problem with that; in this case we'd have a landmark hover query that only contains monthly cost and origin, and a ploppable query that would only contain a short line like "Ploppable version with 132 CO$$$ jobs" or whatever. The rest would then be in the query window.

Myself, I'm more of a guy who prefers growables only and all standard queries, but in turn doesn't mind a longer hover query text. I'd rather have an LTEXT inside that's 3 lines longer than a whole query window that adds quite some filesize, but no function at all.

Now since there is neither the one right way nor the one wrong way, I'd like to pass this question on to the BSP team as a whole. I can live with any of these solutions, but I thought it would be nice if the new BSP releases had a more or less uniform look-and-feel, kinda like NDEX or SimGoober's RLS stuff or any other bigger series. Once again: It's up to you, and I'm open to any suggestions.

Oh, and thanks for letting me upload your BATs to the simszone!

EDIT

Jeez, can you believe it... I didn't even comment on some other things.

First of all, Cadillac Tower looks awesme so far! I guess it will be about as tall as Wren Insurance, could that be?

Secondly, as far as I am concerned we don't need a landmark version for buildings such as the Borders Bookstore. Anyone can maintain a CS$$ plop with so few jobs, and it can't really be considered a cheat, either - things would look different if we were talking about a 5,000-job CO$$$ monster here.

In this particular case, however, we already have a landmark version, and it's all modded and listed in the readme, so I suggest we keep it at least for this building.

[mntoes 270]

Nofunk - Thanks for the tip and picture that will be a usefull method for some of my planned Bats.

[6underground 11]

The style of that tower is very familiar! . I love the style very nice looking. remember though anything under "0.2" in BAT and it wont show up very well. It's a sad thing but true, in BAT you are penalised for detail. If like me, you love adding more and more detail to your BAT's be wary that your labour of love isnt ruined by the shortcomigns of the BAT .

I really cannot wait for the clock tower to be released, I'm thinking of adding it as part of the University of New Rhodesia.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

In general .2 is a good standard, but you can get away with .1 sometimes.  We can see them in the preview render, so they show up (which is the ultimate measurement), and there are texturing tricks that can make them show up even more later.

Yes, for the menu stuff I think the way that the Detroit Free Press Building was done is perfect.  But yeah, that's just me. 

I also think there should be a landmark version, if you need to make one to make the ploppable anyway, it might as well have the final touches put on it so it can be included.

Also, Nofunk, I think you should reset your lights and cameras (in the parameters rollout in the BAT area).  Some of the objects don't seem to be too deep, but they're casting super big shadows.

btw, it's still looking great!  I'll have to start looking for a place to put this in my city.  Luckily it's a 2x2, so it should fit pretty much anywhere, lol.

[nofunk 1,933]

T Wrecks: I think it could easily be as tall as Wren, yes. Of course, I don't see it too often in my cities (and I don't even have the "Go Away Wren" mod installed!) but from what I remember, yes this will be comparable.

mntoes: No problem. I look forward to seeing what you will come up with in the BAT!

6underground: Labor of love indeed! Yes, I'm having the problem right now with Cadillac Tower where I want to add the most minute details but I'm having to stop and say (begrudingly) "I will do that with textures later..." I've found that 0.1 does show *sometimes* ... usually the least I will extrude something is 0.15. However, the real test is just preview rendering -- which I almost always do in "high" resolution, so I get a really good idea of how everything will turn out. If the extrusion shows up there, then I leave it; if not, then I might increase it, or find some other way to accomplish what I want.

I can't wait for my tower to be released, either! Unfortunately, until I figure out how to mod these things myself, I am at the mercy of my fellow BSP cohorts.

(Look for it within the next week.)

Jasoncw: Actually, I do reset my light & cameras and LODs before every preview render. I'm going to guess you are referring to those vertical "arrow" details on the facade. The actual (and accurate) design of them is just a long rectangle rotated 45 degrees, and that's what I did. But I agree with you about the weird shadows and I'm not sure why they're so pronounced. Maybe I'll try recessing them more and see what that does.

And seriously, you have no idea (or maybe you do) how awesome it is to hear someone say "I'll have to make space for that in my city." It's awesome!

UPDATE

OK, real quick update. Cadillac Tower is quickly coming to an end! Well, vertically anyway. I still have the back two walls to BAT, and the roof detail. But this is about as tall as it gets (add maybe 3 metres more).

I fixed the weird brain-fart that happened on the mechanical floor about half-way up the building. I had added an extra row of facade detail -- and at this point I don't need this thing to be any taller than it already is! (For the record, it's scaled pretty much spot-on -- just needs to be wider by about 2 metres.)

Now though, a question. Why have my textures disappeared from the base and center canopy? I haven't moved the textures; I haven't deleted them; I haven't textured over them. Why have they forsaken me?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The diagonal parts do that, but I was looking more at some other parts (mostly the right edge of the front wall, where there used to be a really wide shadow coming from that little edge).  It's not there anymore though, so I guess it's not a problem now.  But yeah, if you want to make the diagonal shadows weaker you can just make them flatter.  One way is to use the ununiform scale tool.  That's not the funny shadows that were bugging me though.

The textures disapear because Gmax is dumb, lol.  If you pick them in the material editor, and press the blue checkered box off and then back on, it should come back.  But for the black base, I'd just include it with the rest of it, and then I'd add in the black to the texture later.

lol, yeah, it is nice to hear.  But really, pretty much everyone who visits a BAT thread thinks about how something could fit into their city when they see it.  So I'm not alone.

[JBSimio 152]

Wow Nofunk! That's come a long way in a very short time. It looks really good, too! For the minimum size to show up in BAT, 0.2 is usually a safe size (in height or length), but it you're dealing with extrusions, I'm often able to get away with less than that. Like Jason said, the texturing can really help there, too. I have some things that only extrude 0.05 farther than the piece behind it... but that's rare and definitely needs the assistance of a texture to really show.

@T Wrecks: I really liked the readme style from DFP and would stick with that if there are no objections.

JB

[spa 968]

Wow this is looking great. The top really rounds things out and makes the tall arrow thingys look like they belong (they didn't at first). This one is tall and stately. You've done a wonderful job with the details. I shudder to think about the render time! For my bats, like JB, I too have gotten away with .05 and .075 with some texturing assistence. In my experience .1 seems to be the real threshold but even then things can get lost if the textures is the same as nearby objects. 

[Spike345 20]

could you make my day and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it a Starbucks in the corner?

[nofunk 1,933]

JBSimio: Thanks! Unfortunately, I didn't make any progress on it this weekend -- it is *really* starting to lag and that's burning me out. At the very least I hope to get the modeling done this week; textures might take longer.

spa: Thank you! It really is a great building. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to render either. I'm up to about 180,000 polys... and not done modeling yet.

Spike345: Hmm... I'll consider it. The building actually houses a Subway underneath that green canopy, but I prefer gourmet coffees, myself. We'll see...

UPDATE

In a whirlwind of BAT and caffeine, I plowed through 40 stories of the Cadillac Tower in just a couple of days. It isn't finished, but I'm burnt out on it.

Not burnt out on the BAT, though, and so over this weekend I plowed through another Detroit landmark. This one is much more reasonable -- a small, 4-story warehouse at 901 W. Lafayette Blvd. in Detroit which in 1977 was converted into a retail shop.

I present to you, the largest bookstore in the state of Michigan, John K. King Used & Rare Books:

I still have some work to do on it -- namely roof junk, and adding a few more signs. I will also probably tweak the nightlights and textures some. But it's almost done!

What do you guys think?

Edit: A photo for reference would be nice too, huh?

[Sim shady 12]

wow very nice job here! i honestly have had no clue as to what you've been doing here until today because your pics haven't been showing up...now they are i love that cadilac tower you're working on. very classy building. cant wait to see more

edit: ick! screen is super stretched for me

[Jasoncw 11,840]

It looks pretty good.  The yellowish parts and the roof might need some texturing work.  If you do that photoshop backdrop thing from the BAT school you'll be able to tell.  When you look at it, if it doesn't look perfect then keep on working on it.

Is this zoom 4 or 5?  If it's 5 then it needs to be scaled up too, since those types of buildings have tall ceilings.

It looks like an interesting place.  From its address it looks like its on the westside, which is why I've never heard of it in my entire life, lol.

[budweiserdude23 80]

Excuse me if i'm repeating but here goes...

1. Nice work.

2. Awesome work.

3. Explective work.

Okay, that said, the only thing that's weird is the yellow trapezoid on the book store roof. Other than that, not a single criticism. Can something be ugly and pretty at the same time? If so, you've proved it...

As the 0.1 meter issue is concerned, trust me it works as long as  its not a detailed piece. You can have a box extend 0.075 above the shape upon what it was modeled upon and still have it show properly with texture in most instances. I still tend towards no less than 0.1 though if not more, just shows better.

[JBSimio 152]

Wow Nofunk! An people keep asking me how I churn them out "so fast"... looks like you can take that title over anytime you want! This looks really nice. I agree that it should probably be scaled up a little more. The chipped painted brick texture looks great. And yes... I'll gladly do any queries you need. (Answering from my own thread here... confusing, isn't it?)

JB

[6459978. 106]

Good use of textures in general. But please don't recycle that Maxis roof texture (I believe it's one of the textures from an in game building that was released - if not ignore me. But I'm pretty sure.)

[spa 968]

That's a nice little warehouse. I really like the wall texture. I do have to agree with 6459978 about the roof though. One other thought, have you considered making an actual small industrial with this one too?

[bixel 1,223]

This just keeps getting better and better!! Love the little warehouse...love the updates on the tower.

[nofunk 1,933]

BORDERS BOOKS & MUSIC RELEASED!

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17212

In 1971, brothers Tom and Louis Borders opened the first Borders bookstore in downtown Ann Arbor, Michigan. From these humble beginnings, Borders has grown to become the world's second-largest retailer of books, music and video, with more than 1,200 stores and 35,000 employees in nine countries around the globe. This BAT is a faithful recreation of the actual building, except that some liberties have been taken with roof junk and lot design. However, it even features the ants mural on the back wall of the real-life building, which was also used as the icon for the landmark lot.

For SimCity4, the building has been adapted in various versions to give you the widest possible choice, depending on your individual taste. It is up to you to decide which of the available versions you would like to use. It doesn't matter if you select only one or if you decide to use all of them simultaneously; there are no conflicts or other limitations that would prevent you from doing so.

Special thanks to T Wrecks for modding, custom menu icons and readme; JBSimio for custom queries; Jasoncw for technical help with BAT; and ALL OF YOU who have given me such valuable feedback!

This is only the beginning!