High Speed Rail Project

[rodent1989 9]

I like the current tunnel design, but I always thought high speed tunnels segregated the two tracks, like in this pic:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/images/chunnel2_tunnel_1.jpg

this is (i'm assuming) to prevent fires and such from effecting both sides of the tunnel, just a suggestion!

As I said before this is brilliant work and definitely one of the best additions to the stex of late.

[degnaw 0]

This mod is great! i put it in a region of two large cities (with towns in between) and now it gets over 15,000 usage. only comment is, you might want to increase the capacity of the base hsr station, as the hsr hub doesnt look right in a small suburban community and the base station would be over 500% capacity.

[Yoman3 5]

I tried it out in game and got 2 problems.

1 : my gantry poles show up fine on perfectly straight track but the wires done although the wires show up on the diagonal tracks

2 : At farther zooms the tunnel enterance looks like this

But closer up this happenes?

Any help? Also notice how the wires are gon on a straight like that

[KeanoManu 42]

Originally posted by: 3ddz @KeanoManu / SC4BOY: You can use the original monorail station, technically it works for the HSR, but the track visually didnt fit with the HSR track. And for realism isues the station is way to<br />short/small for the HSR Network, even the big transit Hub is often to short for the trains. Its just completely unrealistic to use such a small station for high speed rail. And its only called HSRP <br />station because i changed the name of the monorail network so the old station is renamed automatically. But when u use the old station beware that i will replace it completely with the<br />tansit hub in the final release so you could get problems if you use it now and then install the final release.quote>

 <br /><br />Please, If you are going to delete the orginal one, make another, longer station thats just one square and places on the track.

[jlemen 0]

I have started building the HSR system in my region... Even though I was a bit leary of the beta release at first, I must say I'm very impressed with the results.. The tracks look great and the curves, while not being the easiest to make where you want them, They really shouldn't be.. After all it is a "high speed" rail and it wouldn't be able to curve too sharply and stay "high speed" in RL.... I just want to say "Very good job!!"..

The only thing is.... More stations?? Did I read right that you could use the monorail stations with this?? And that it will still work right??

[3ddz 17]

@degnaw/degnaw: concerning the station i already wrote some lines on the last page...

@Yoman3: hm just had a look inside all hsrp files and could not find that old tunnel texture, did you have also the alpha version installed?

@rodent1989: The tunnel i know are single tubes, i think dual tubes are only used for longer tunnels like the english channel tunnel you showed in your picture.

Edit:  i created new preview graphics so now the track shows up correctly when dragging.

[jj88 23]

Good work 3ddz!

[SC4BOY 20]

I have been using the HSR for some time now and built versions of it in a number of regions and cities. The major comments I have are
1. Folk have to be careful about placing the small on-track station.. it will automatically plop FLAT. it will not conform to any slope at all. This is fine, but give the severe limits on track slope (4% or so grade?) it can be VERY HARD sometimes to have a stretch of 6 tiles that are completely flat.. if the 2 track pieces touching the station are not FLAT then the connection will FAIL.. This can lead people to some frustration as it is not apparent that the connection is bad.. If you can't "DRAG A TRACK THROUGH" it is bad (and get the clean yellow track)

2. As I have already mentioned, but in summary you CANNOT place a road of any kind touching the large station at the ends where the track enters/exits the station. You must have at least one tile in between. I haven't encountered it yet, but I'm betting the "FLAT TRACK for one tile in and out" also applies to this station too.

EDIT: I have since gone back to this city and confirmed that streets/.roads CAN be placed at the ends without adverse effects... I can only assume that my original layout had a slight slope and that the slope "broke" the connection.. sorry for the error.

3. The slope requirements of the HST are, though perhaps realistic for a "real world simulation" are IMO extremely restrictive for this GAME! It is extremely difficult to use the track through any but the most mild terrains unless you want your terrain to be ripped apart.. and normally you have to rip it up yourself as the track will not "auto terraform" beyond the mildest cases.  I just did a link from one "highlands" area to an adjacent lowlands city square and it took 135 tiles to drop 100 meters.. extremely restrictive and took  in excess of the entire length of a medium city tile just to drop the 100 meters (and if I do say so myself I am damn good at terraforming.. many will find it essentially impossible) This works out to a real slope of 4.63%.. This means you just won't be able to use it in a LOT of places. It would be fine if you could "tunnel between cities" or "bridge between cities" but of course this is forbidden. Not to mention that it took a LOT of re-landscaping and much time just to do it.

An example photo:



Note too that this only decends a SMALL PART of the mountain height. This is intended to be a small isolated resort "across the mountains", but it turned out to be "the city with the rails over everything".. And of course there is NO WAY it can EXIT the city square in any direction other than back up the "one you came in on"

I believe a bit of experimentation should be done to see what MAXIMUM SLOPE is possible without major compromise of the artwork, and a method to CHANGE THE SLOPE should be posted for those wishing to compromise.  I'd be happy to contribute here, but someone will have to explain the method for doing the changes to me.

[jj88 23]

I agree with SC4BOY the slope requirements for HSR are very restrictive.

Hopefully this gets changed before the full release.

[GreekMan 246]

does this replace El and monorail?

[prince_of_sims 0]

if you had taken the time to read through the thread, or even the first few pages, you'd know that it only replaces the monorail.

[3ddz 17]

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

...

2. As I have already mentioned, but in summary you CANNOT place a road of any kind touching the large station at the ends where the track enters/exits the station. You must have at least one tile in between. I haven't encountered it yet, but I'm betting the "FLAT TRACK for one tile in and out" also applies to this station too.

...quote>

 

Maybe i missunderstood your post, but it is possible to run a road along the track side of the station, below is a screenshot of it or was it something different you mean?

 About the maximum slope allowed i will do some testing to find out if i can increase the slope a bit to lets say 8%...

if you would like to do some experimenting on your own you need the ILive Reader and open the hsrp.dat. Select the filter button in the toolbar and select only exemplar files and hit refresh.

Now select the third last entry and on the left side you see a bunch of values and the name of this exemplar "HSRP Placement Tuning Parameters".

In this exemplar file you can adjust the "MaxSlopeAlongNetwork" value change the max slope, then save the file and test it ingame.

But beside that i personly like just the fact that you have to carafully chose the path for the tracks since you cant go up and down the hills like a rollercoaster which is possible with the standard networks.

I think it just adds a great sense of realism to the game that you have to deal with some restrictions when planning your high speed rail tracks just as it is in real life.

Thats all one essential aspect of the modd to bring a more realistic transportation network to the game and thats the reason why i will also replace the original monorail station in combination

with the high speed rail network in the final release since its absulutely unsuitable for the network.

[LBraden 14]

looking very good, all I need is to get my new uber region looking right and I will be doing this mod, but its taking a while to do everything here, and the stuff is looking very nice, and can you point me to texture etc for the new HSRP as that I want to make a new station in BAT that looks similar to one that I saw a while ago, cannot remember where

[3ddz 17]

Look in the stex in the  .3ds section there you find models and textures for the HSRP

[BerlinDude 14]

Just have to show ya, how well the HSR fits with simrolles s-bahn viaducts!

[SC4Noobie 5]

I think this was already talked about, but I am making a HSR station, and I downloaded the textue pack for the HRSP, but I only have gmax (figures, 3ds is like $2k) Could you guys save the model as a gmax readable file? Thanks.

Edit: here's a pic

I know it's not much yet, only put about 2 hours into it.

[prince_of_sims 0]

open Gmax/BAT and choose Import. then import the 3DS file. you'll have to redo the texturing.

[Swamper77 90]

SC4Noobie,

In the File Menu in GMAX, select Import. GMAX can import 3DS models.

-Swamper77

[SC4Noobie 5]

Thanks guys. I didn't know that.

[BerlinDude 14]

I'm also currentliy working on a HSR station for 2 tracks and like 3ddz's hub it will be enabled for the normal rail as well:

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: 3ddz

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

...

2. As I have already mentioned, but in summary you CANNOT place a road of any kind touching the large station at the ends where the track enters/exits the station. You must have at least one tile in between. I haven't encountered it yet, but I'm betting the "FLAT TRACK for one tile in and out" also applies to this station too.

...quote>

 

Maybe i missunderstood your post, but it is possible to run a road along the track side of the station, below is a screenshot of it or was it something different you mean?.... quote>

Yes that is EXACTLY what I had other than I used a STREET instead of a ROAD.. This is very odd as I tested this three times..  Have there been any revisions in this since the beta release? I suppose, tho it was on an absolutely flat map, that I may have had some tiny slope change or elevation change.. Thanks for correcting this, and I 'll go back and try to figure out why I was not getting it to work.. I could place the street, redrag the connections, and NO TRAFFIC.. I could delete them and I got 4000 traffic.. very strange... 

EDIT: I have since gone back to this city and confirmed that streets/.roads CAN be placed at the ends without adverse effects... I can only assume that my original layout had a slight slope and that the slope "broke" the connection.. sorry for the error.

 About the maximum slope allowed i will do some testing to find out if i can increase the slope a bit to lets say 8%...

if you would like to do some experimenting on your own you need the ILive Reader and open the hsrp.dat. Select the filter button in the toolbar and select only exemplar files and hit refresh.

Now select the third last entry and on the left side you see a bunch of values and the name of this exemplar "HSRP Placement Tuning Parameters".

In this exemplar file you can adjust the "MaxSlopeAlongNetwork" value change the max slope, then save the file and test it ingame.quote>

Thanks kindly for your tips.. I will fool with it a bit, though of course you are far more qualified.

But beside that i personly like just the fact that you have to carafully chose the path for the tracks since you cant go up and down the hills like a rollercoaster which is possible with the standard networks.

I think it just adds a great sense of realism to the game that you have to deal with some restrictions when planning your high speed rail tracks just as it is in real life.

Thats all one essential aspect of the modd to bring a more realistic transportation network to the game and thats the reason why i will also replace the original monorail station in combination

with the high speed rail network in the final release since its absulutely unsuitable for the network.quote>

 

I recognize this, and it's an admirable goal.. However when "realism" makes a game feature unplayable, it becomes an empty pursuit. And 4% grade is simply unplayable unless you are a "grade it flat player". As I mentioned, I am more than competent as a terraformer, but even a very mild terrain causes fits to rational HST function. Not to mention the inordinate amount of time it takes to fool with it to get even a mild run curving down a valleyway and simultaneously gobbling 2/3rd of a medium map's terrain.. And further it complicates the placement of other features since the track is (unless on a completely flat map) ALWAYS on a slope, thereby hosing the use of surrounding landscapes and construction features.

Don't get me wrong.. I think its a great SC4 feature, and as long as I can fool with my own copy if others demand this "realism", I will stand quietly by. But personally I think excessive pursuit of "realism" is pretty silly given all the constraints of the game..   And of course anyone recognizes the laughable situation with the monorail.. soooo.. I guess its all a question of balance.

Originally posted by: BerlinDude Just have to show ya, how well the HSR fits with simrolles s-bahn viaducts!

quote>

 

Looks ok, even charming.... BUT it is completely out of character with an HST.. how often do you suppose you'd be replacing those windows as trains pass at 400km/hr? Not to mention hearing yourself think.. That particular integration, tho "charming" I find truly incongruous.

PS: I like the way your station is coming along..

[BerlinDude 14]

Well, at least in germany, high speed trains are alwys driving with a fraction of it's actually highspeed within the towns, so for examapel "only" between 70 and 100 km/hr, so I don't think it's so a wrong place for it.... Oh an tahnks

[SC4BOY 20]

Has anyone given any thought to my previoius comment that the supports seem to be WAAAY too close together? 

These posts are not only MASSIVE but at 7:1 over rail supports seem way too much.. not only from an engineering standpoint, but from an aesthetic standpoint.. I don't know how hard this is to change, and the artwork is topnotch, but a reduction of 1/3 to 2/3 in supports seems desirable.

[LBraden 14]

I agree there SC4Boy, them supports are wayyy to close together

SC4 Noobie, I myself have 3ds Max, and due to a friend who uses it in his business, I was able to get it free, except that it is registered as another copy of his small business licence (I do help him from time to time)

[jj88 23]

I agree SC4BOY the supports are a bit too close together is also possible to have more than one type of HSPR bridge or am i asking to much?

[your_adress_here 11]

Thats because the supports for the monorail were that close.

[DaMaster_architect 0]

I downloaded the HSRP, and I must say, so far it's perfect! The HSRP fits nice into the game. The balance is even better now, in my opinion. Instead of everyone using the highway, half the people in my cities use the highway to get to work, and the other half uses the HSRP.

Just one note, but it may be announced before... please increase the max slope rate! It cost me like three hours and 750.000 simdollars to lay down 100 metres of HSRP track over a small slope

Anyway, thanks for the efforts 3ddz and others! This is the first best addition to simcity after the NaM IMO

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: your_adress_here Thats because the supports for the monorail were that close.quote>

 

I understand that, but history is rather a poor reason to do something poorly if you know how to correct it.. This thread has already revealed MANY innovations, so why be small-minded in limiting your creative thinking?

[LP 1]

So, now that the basics are pretty much done, short of a few modifications... what about the next step? I'm talking ground-based of course.

[aldara6166 109]

Originally posted by: LP So, now that the basics are pretty much done, short of a few modifications... what about the next step? I'm talking ground-based of course.quote>

 

Based on the way it was explained before, this mod was a REPLACEMENT for an existing mode of transportation...and the monorail, being under utilized as it was, was the natural selection...as the NAM guys have stated, something like this can't be created as a new transportation network but only as a replacement for an existing one...