SC4 for Mac 64-bit

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Hiya, @dancisa. Welcome to Simtropolis.

I'm by no means an expert on NAM. Actually, I'm much more of a neophyte in that regard, but I had something similar occur with regard to some curved sections of SAM. I forget for sure who was able to diagnose that for me, but it was likely @rsc204. It turned out because I had done a custom install, I didn't realize I needed certain FARR and Wide Radius Curve options enabled too.

So, all that to say it seems likely there is some option which was not selected during installation and so those parts don't know which network textures to display. Ideally if you could post a picture or two showing the missing sections that would prolly help the experts visually see what the trouble is.

[dancisa 2]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Hiya, @dancisa. Welcome to Simtropolis.

I'm by no means an expert on NAM. Actually, I'm much more of a neophyte in that regard, but I had something similar occur with regard to some curved sections of SAM. I forget for sure who was able to diagnose that for me, but it was likely @rsc204. It turned out because I had done a custom install, I didn't realize I needed certain FARR and Wide Radius Curve options enabled too.

So, all that to say it seems likely there is some option which was not selected during installation and so those parts don't know which network textures to display. Ideally if you could post a picture or two showing the missing sections that would prolly help the experts visually see what the trouble is.

Thank you for your input!

I uninstalled everything and installed it again and it still keeps happening. I choose the complete standard installation for the NAM, so I should have all the files.

Having a bit of a look I can see I'm missing random bits and pieces, so far these are the ones:

- diagonal viaduct rail slope

- viaduct rail junction to 45 degrees

- viaduct rail 45 degrees turn

- underground rail entrance

- viaduct rail over rail

- road underpass for avenues (i do have the ones with the tram in it)

 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 minute ago, dancisa said:

I choose the complete standard installation for the NAM, so I should have all the files.

Yeah, that certainly should do it.

Next question: Can you go to a test city and try drawing/dragging those out there as a new start? One thing I do know with the ground rail I use (RRW iirc) is that some radii that Maxis would show don't have an equivalent in NAM. In other words NAM sometimes requires a gentler curve for better realism and if it's too tight, it'll default back to the Maxis textures.

While you test that, I'll create a couple pics to show what I'm talking about.

[dancisa 2]

7 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Can you go to a test city and try drawing/dragging those out there as a new start?

I have just tried that and still these pieces are not appearing. I have tried a new city, region, and reinstalled SimCity 4 all together and they don't appear where they used to be, or anywhere else I could find. 

10 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

In other words NAM sometimes requires a gentler curve for better realism and if it's too tight, it'll default back to the Maxis textures.

So you mean that if the radii is too tight, the piece might just disappear all together?

I have an old MacBook that is not on Catalina, I will try there see what happens as well.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

7 minutes ago, dancisa said:

So you mean that if the radii is too tight, the piece might just disappear all together?

Yes, that's my current guess. (And it really is only a guess.)
 

In my region, I laid out the rail line thru dozens of city tiles before I'd even installed NAM.

Here's a picture of a section of it with Maxis default rail:

 

Then updating it to NAM's and it does not have a texture to do that super tight wye:

 

But, it can do it this way:

 

So, it might be possible that is what you are experiencing. (In other words, prolly nothing wrong with your NAM install, but some places that are not configurations NAM supports.)

 

[dancisa 2]

Oh I get it now! The issue is that I'm not even able to place the pieces I'm missing because I can't event choose them in my case. When I click on the viaduct rail, for example, and go through all the puzzle piece with the tab key, they're not there.

[rsc204 21,808]

On 10/04/2020 at 8:29 PM, CorinaMarie said:

So, it might be possible that is what you are experiencing. (In other words, prolly nothing wrong with your NAM install, but some places that are not configurations NAM supports.)

In this case it's only because you are using RRW which has these restrictions, the default "Maxis rail" allows for all such setups. It's also important to note that the Viaduct Rail pieces, not the E-RRW, which is flex/drag based, uses Puzzle Pieces. All the pieces can be placed, provided space exists for them and unlike RUL-2 based networks, should never have stability/override problems, because they are static pieces with a singular function.

All the pieces for the Viaduct Rail at least are contained within NetworkAddonMod_RailViaducts.dat in the Network Addon Mod\Rail folder. What this means in practise is that's it's very unlikely you were missing a file, since then you'd have no pieces.

Just for clarity, you're saying that the missing pieces don't even appear in the Tab-Ring?

If that's the case, it could be a controller problem, specifically missing RUL0 code, which controls all the Menu Items/Tab-Ring behaviour. I've never heard of a problem like this before and again like with the actual content, if the code is there for most pieces, then it should contain the full code for that feature. If you were using a custom-compiled NAM Controller, it might be worth trying with the default controller, just in case. But this is really just to rule out any weirdness from the Controller Compiler, which is only told which "chunks" of code to add together, it simply doesn't operate at the level of individual pieces.

That would lead me to believe this is potentially another victim of the port to 64-Bit, changing how the game works in completely unknown ways. It's quite possible some values used for those specific pieces, may no longer be supported in the current App Store release. Given that Catalina is 64-bit or bust, the best advice we can give Mac users right now, assuming SC4 is important to you, try holding back from updating to Catalina/the 64-Bit version of SC4. Otherwise return to Mavericks or older, perhaps by use of a bootable drive? Of course this also requires access to the old 32-bit edition of SC4, how feesable this is to do without an existing 32-bit version I can't say. What with the App store being so finicky regarding older versions of software.

Within the NAM team, we simply don't have the equipment to properly test these issues, we're all heavy Windows users. I'm not sure if Tarkus' Mac Mini can handle Catalina, mine certainly doesn't. Without feedback from users, it's unlikely we'd even know of the existence of these issues to begin with. But even when we hear of them, it becomes very difficult to test any potential changes to find what's wrong. I'm sorry to say, but even then, we're not exactly pushed for tasks to keep us busy right now. Unless this turns out to be something simple and obvious, or someone with a good working knowledge of the NAM, with access to a suitable Mac can help, it may be some time before we can resolve these compatibility problems.

A cursory look at the pieces in question don't show any obvious places to start tinkering.

[Tarkus 6,932]

The issue definitely sounds like the RUL0 entries are not present, or are being blocked somehow.  The Mac version, to my knowledge, will end up installing a full controller, as the Wineskin wrapper blocks the NAM Controller Compiler from running.  It would be really, really weird if the 64-bit change blocked specific HIDs in RUL0 from being referenced.  The Rail Viaduct PPs are a pretty old part of the NAM, and none of the pieces you mentioned are all that new--most date back to version numbers in the 20s.  (The Underground Rail entrance portal is from NAM 20, in fact.)  It almost sounds more like an old controller is sitting somewhere else in your Plugins, blocking that content.

The main issue I'd have in diagnosing is not so much a matter of if I could install Catalina (my Mac Mini is currently on Mojave), but the fact that the Mac version of the game I have access to is the Steam one, not the App Store one.  The App Store version is 64-bit, but the Steam version is 32-bit.

-Tarkus

[Wiimeiser 444]

For all we know it could be related to whatever coding loop is causing the Capitol Records/Max's Grill conflict. Does the latter also cause problems on 64-bit? Given how mysterious that particular bug is there could be a connection, but it's reaching...

[mmprog 104]

Revisiting SC4 on my Catalina Mac with my latest plugins/regions. I've tracked down one last plugin that was triggering a CTD: the Ordinance Overhaul Mod. It only CTD if you load a city with the Free Clinics, Pro-Reading, or Smoke Detectors ordinances enabled. It will also CTD if you enable these ordinances and then run the game for at least a month.

Anyway, the issue was some more Float32 properties with rep=1 (Health Quotient Decay Effect, School EQ Decay Effect, and Health Quotient Boost Effect). Everything runs fine with these fixed. Attaching the fixed mod here.

Also, @c4bl3fl4m3 and others have expressed interest in the "Wine-bottled" version of iLives Reader that I've been using on macOS. It doesn't seem to work on Catalina, I'm guessing it would need to be re-packaged, but I haven't set aside time to attempt this yet (if I do make progress with that, I'll start a new forum thread). Anyway, you can download the app from my personal site (it's 53 MB so I don't want to attach directly to this post); it should hopefully work for others who have access to a pre-Catalina version of macOS. The first time you run the app, you will need to right-click and select Open instead of just double-clicking, and accept the prompt warning you about running an app from an unknown developer.

Ordinance Overhaul Mod - 64-bit macOS.zip

[xxdita 1,097]

1 minute ago, mmprog said:

Revisiting SC4 on my Catalina Mac with my latest plugins/regions. I've tracked down one last plugin that was triggering a CTD: the Ordinance Overhaul Mod. It only CTD if you load a city with the Free Clinics, Pro-Reading, or Smoke Detectors ordinances enabled. It will also CTD if you enable these ordinances and then run the game for at least a month.

Anyway, the issue was some more Float32 properties with rep=1 (Health Quotient Decay Effect, School EQ Decay Effect, and Health Quotient Boost Effect). Everything runs fine with these fixed. Attaching the fixed mod here.

Also, @c4bl3fl4m3 and others have expressed interest in the "Wine-bottled" version if iLives Reader for use on the Mac that I've been using. It doesn't seem to work on Catalina, I'm guessing it would need to be re-packaged, but I haven't set aside time to attempt this yet (if I do make progress with that, I'll start a new forum thread). Anyway, you can download the app from my personal site (it's 53 MB so I don't want to attach directly to this post); it should hopefully work for others who have access to a pre-Catalina version of macOS. The first time you run the app, you will need to right-click and select Open instead of just double-clicking, and accept the prompt warning you about running an app from an unknown developer.

Ordinance Overhaul Mod - 64-bit macOS.zip

Have you had a chance to try out the Release Candidate for NAM 37? 

[mmprog 104]

1 minute ago, xxdita said:

Have you had a chance to try out the Release Candidate for NAM 37? 

Not yet, but I saw it was out and am very interested!

[xxdita 1,097]

Just now, mmprog said:

Not yet, but I saw it was out and am very interested!

I believe your feedback on the installer and making sure there are no CTD issues would be quite helpful. 

[rsc204 21,808]

5 hours ago, mmprog said:

Also, @c4bl3fl4m3 and others have expressed interest in the "Wine-bottled" version of iLives Reader that I've been using on macOS. It doesn't seem to work on Catalina, I'm guessing it would need to be re-packaged, but I haven't set aside time to attempt this yet (if I do make progress with that, I'll start a new forum thread).

Not sure if it would be possible to run Reader even under emulation, since it's a 32-bit application. It seems likely that provided the O/S changes don't completely prevent it, WINE and the like would eventually be updated to allow such things. But, if my experiance of trying to run 16-bit applications on 32-bit Windows is anything to go by, it might simply be technically impossible. In that case the only sure workaround is using a bootable drive or similar containing a 32-bit compatible O/S.

Whilst quite different in many ways, a 64-bit version of SC4Reader does exist and in-theory can do everything iLives Reader can. It might be worth taking a look at getting that running through WINE?

[Augusto_ 4]

Hey everyone, I created a topic on how to to get more money on SC4 Deluxe from AppStore on MacOS Catalina 64bit, if intersted you can check it here:

Cheers

[c4bl3fl4m3 405]

On 05/05/2020 at 5:57 PM, mmprog said:

Also, @c4bl3fl4m3 and others have expressed interest in the "Wine-bottled" version of iLives Reader that I've been using on macOS. It doesn't seem to work on Catalina, I'm guessing it would need to be re-packaged, but I haven't set aside time to attempt this yet (if I do make progress with that, I'll start a new forum thread). Anyway, you can download the app from my personal site (it's 53 MB so I don't want to attach directly to this post); it should hopefully work for others who have access to a pre-Catalina version of macOS. The first time you run the app, you will need to right-click and select Open instead of just double-clicking, and accept the prompt warning you about running an app from an unknown developer.

So I did all that, and the program opens and then closes itself without loading any kind of interface. Do you have to open it WITH a BAT file or something to get it to work?

[mmprog 104]

4 hours ago, c4bl3fl4m3 said:

So I did all that, and the program opens and then closes itself without loading any kind of interface. Do you have to open it WITH a BAT file or something to get it to work?

No, I open the reader itself and then use its menu to open a file. Not sure what might be going on. Do you have the WineBottler app itself installed on your Mac? Perhaps there are other resources (dynamic libraries, etc.) that the program needs in order to work correctly. I don’t have access to any other non-Catalina Mac to test running it on another machine myself, so unfortunately I think it will be difficult to figure this out. Sharing the file I made was a bit of a shot in the dark.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Just an idea if @smf_16 would help out. My idea is similar to a feature of his program mentioned in this post. There we see the option to modify the OccupantGroups in all data files in a folder. (There's also an option to do that folder and all sub folders using the --recursive option.)

The sample command for the tilesets:

SC4 tileset --euro --force  "path/to/directory"

In the actual code I found the part starting in lines 463 & 464 how it checks for which property to update:

// Look for the "OccupantGroups" property.
if (prop.id === 0xAA1DD396) {

And after that it does its magic (which CB and I tested earlier this morning).

 

Now, what I wonder is if the program could have a SC4 macfix "path/to/directory" option added which would find the following properties:

• 0xe90e25a2 (Transit Switch Entry Cost)
• 0xe90e25a3 (Transit Switch Traffic Capacity)
• 0x8922041b (School Student Capacity)
• 0x69220415 (Hospital Patient Capacity)

And set their Rep Count = 0 leaving everything else intact.

The first two are the ones causing the CTDs. The other two are simply the 1/1000 bug tho they might also be CTD prone in the 64 bit version.

 

And since that program is Java based, it'd be cross platform and Mac peeps could simply install their plugins as they already do and then let this program fix it all up for them.

Maybe?

[smf_16 1,835]

Well I haven't read the thread so I don't really know what exactly the problem is but yeah that seems doable. Can you give maybe a little more context? I'll see if I find some time to add such command.

Just to be correct though, the tool is JavaScript based instead of Java based, but indeed it should make it independent of the OS used. One problem I could imagine though is that my precompiled C++ code - which is required for the checksum and compression algorithms - doesn't work on Mac and as such you would have to compile it yourself. Perhaps that someone with a Mac can try to run my tool to see if it works - doesn't really matter which command, perhaps "historical" is the easiest.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, smf_16 said:

I don't really know what exactly the problem is but yeah that seems doable. Can you give maybe a little more context?

From the very beginning there has been a bug in the Mac version of SimCity 4's game code such that when the Rep Value is set to 1 instead of 0 of certain properties it has caused what is known as the 1/1000 bug. For instance, if any station has, say, 5000 capacity, but the Rep is set to 1 then for Mac players they'd only get a maximum of 5. While that was annoying for them, the new 64 bit version of the game will now crash because of this.

On Windoze systems it acts normally with a 1 or a 0 for that rep value.

Here's a picture from Reader where only one of the two troublesome properties is incorrectly set to Rep = 1.

 

The solution has been for peeps to use Reader to manually set the Rep back to zero, save the file, and make it available for Mac users. Additionally, in a PM with @c4bl3fl4m3 a long while back, they discovered that a school's capacity was also affected by the 1/1000 bug. Medical is also likely to suffer from this.

So, an ideal solution instead of fixing each file one by one via Reader would be how your program already has the ability to change property values in a group of files.

 

1 hour ago, smf_16 said:

One problem I could imagine though is that my precompiled C++ code - which is required for the checksum and compression algorithms - doesn't work on Mac and as such you would have to compile it yourself.

Ah. I understand. Hopefully one of our techy Mac peeps can check this out and/or compile the required libraries using a Mac.

In the meantime, if you add that option for the 4 properties I listed, we could still use it to help the Mac peeps. They could corral any troublesome files into a folder, zip it up, send it to a Windoze user of your program, then we'd run the fix and send the files back. This would be a much quicker solution than fixing each file individually.

And, ofc, if someone compiles the libraries for the Mac, then any Mac user could benefit from your program themselves.

[Enrique Feterman 1]

I have an IMac 27, Catalina 10.15.4, I understand that today the upgrade to 64 bits for SimCity 4 de luxe edition is available, I loaded the game and a region appears, but when I tried to load a city to play, suddenly the game quit, and a window pop-up with an error description, any suggestion?, I am not an expert in software, thank you in advance

[xxdita 1,097]

49 minutes ago, Enrique Feterman said:

I have an IMac 27, Catalina 10.15.4, I understand that today the upgrade to 64 bits for SimCity 4 de luxe edition is available, I loaded the game and a region appears, but when I tried to load a city to play, suddenly the game quit, and a window pop-up with an error description, any suggestion?, I am not an expert in software, thank you in advance

What did the error description say? 

[Enrique Feterman 1]

it opens a large window, this picture enclosed is the top part

[Hubert 53]

Hi @Enrique Feterman you might want to look at this thread in which several people describe the same problem as yours (unexpected/spontaneous upgrade by Steam to 64-bit version, subsequent Crashes To Desktop when trying to load pre-existing city tiles). It may be connected with incompatible plugins. The post by @urbanbabel215 suggests a 'partial fix'.

Cheers,

h

[rsc204 21,808]

On 21/05/2020 at 1:58 PM, CorinaMarie said:

In the meantime, if you add that option for the 4 properties I listed, we could still use it to help the Mac peeps. They could corral any troublesome files into a folder, zip it up, send it to a Windoze user of your program, then we'd run the fix and send the files back. This would be a much quicker solution than fixing each file individually.

I think from what I've read, this is not specifically limited to the 4 Properties, but a more general Problem where the Data type Float32 is used. If such a Data type contains only a single Rep, the Rep. value must be 0, not 1.

@smf_16: If a tool can be made to fix these entries, it might be we need a two-prong attack. First the fix the Plugin files containing the errors, but possibly also to ensure this data is updated within the save files themselves. I really can't say for sure, but again from Problems we're hearing with Mac users getting the 64-bit update, but then being unable to use previous save files, I wonder if this error is being propagated into the save file. In other words, if a mod with the problem values has been placed and saved in a city whilst playing the 32-bit version. When running the 64-bit version, it prevents the save from being loaded. In any event, I think we need to pool these issues into one place to get the bottom of them. Assuming of course you have time/motivation to assist. For the moment, here's what I know about the problem:

 

[xxdita 1,097]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I think from what I've read, this is not specifically limited to the 4 Properties, but a more general Problem where the Data type Float32 is used. If such a Data type contains only a single Rep, the Rep. value must be 0, not 1.

@smf_16: If a tool can be made to fix these entries, it might be we need a two-prong attack. First the fix the Plugin files containing the errors, but possibly also to ensure this data is updated within the save files themselves. I really can't say for sure, but again from Problems we're hearing with Mac users getting the 64-bit update, but then being unable to use previous save files, I wonder if this error is being propagated into the save file. In other words, if a mod with the problem values has been placed and saved in a city whilst playing the 32-bit version. When running the 64-bit version, it prevents the save from being loaded. In any event, I think we need to pool these issues into one place to get the bottom of them. Assuming of course you have time/motivation to assist. For the moment, here's what I know about the problem:

 

Testing done in this thread (on this same page) suggests that there are at least some Float32 properties that absolutely do require the rep count of 1. 

[rsc204 21,808]

37 minutes ago, xxdita said:

Testing done in this thread (on this same page) suggests that there are at least some Float32 properties that absolutely do require the rep count of 1. 

Could you perhaps link to the specific post in question, because I can find no such information in either thread.

[xxdita 1,097]

Sorry, you're right. I'm getting the threads jumbled together. 

It was actually this thread. The Simmer2 file mmprog posted was found to be problematic in his own testing, while the version Tibi posted solved the issue for him. The details aren't explicitly laid out in the thread, but they have been discussed on Discord. At this point the matter needs more testing. 

[rsc204 21,808]

6 minutes ago, xxdita said:

The details aren't explicitly laid out in the thread, but they have been discussed on Discord

Right so perhaps this being the case, you might consider adjusting your tone in future to be less accusative? This has always been one of things I dislike about stuff going on on Discord, if you're not there, many important things don't get communicated to the wider community. If we aren't open about detailing problems and gathering data, how can anyone else be expected to know about it? Or is there some elite club I'm not a member of that's handing all this, because honestly I'm just trying to help, if my help is not wanted, I'll stop wasting my time.

[Tyberius06 12,189]

34 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Right so perhaps this being the case, you might consider adjusting your tone in future to be less accusative? This has always been one of things I dislike about stuff going on on Discord, if you're not there, many important things don't get communicated to the wider community. If we aren't open about detailing problems and gathering data, how can anyone else be expected to know about it? Or is there some elite club I'm not a member of that's handing all this, because honestly I'm just trying to help, if my help is not wanted, I'll stop wasting my time.

Ok, it's my fault.
But I was/am pretty busy and discord was the fastest way to get some information. And I don't even understand half of these different REP values (yet) or their functions, just experiencing things...
When I fixed that SM2 lot and sent it back to @mmprog, I realized that the only difference is the Lot Resource Key (LRK) REP count value. On my working fix it was 1 (PIM-X automatically changes that to 1 when you save the building examplar, while Maxis LE changes that to 0). I ran a whole lot of tests how the PIM-X, LE and the SC4 tool saving process modify the TE switch and LRK counts. I found, that LE changes that upon saving to 0, while PIM-X changes that to 1. SC4 Tool leave it as is, but it changes the transit switch rep values, which leads us to the MAC TE bug and now CTDs.

So mmprog "fixed" the SM2 lot with Reader, by changing the TE REP values, which prevented him getting further CTDs plopping that lot, but he got other issues. That lot was saved in Maxis LE during its creation, and as far as I know the PIM-X LE doesn't change anything on the building examplars, therefore the LRK REP count was 0 on it. MMPROG didn't change the LRK REP value when he fixed the TE bug, but he got some other issues with the lot as he mentioned in that thread. 
When I ran the lot through in PIM-X and saved the building examplar, the PIM-X changed the LRK REP count to 1 (this is the only difference between the two fixes), and when mmprog tested my version, he reported back, that it was working properly now, and his previous issues had been gone. 

Yes I asked around in discord what the hell LRK does actually and what could be the relation, but since it was only one case I can not say for sure that it is a general issue. Also I'm quite busy right now, so not even following that closely these MAC threads, but I've sent a PM (partially) about this issue last night as far as I remember.

@mmprog: if you read this. I wanted to send a PM to you, if you would be able to test some more lots, which actually were fixed the same way how you did, but I wasn't able to send the PM due to some Error code: 2C137/2. @Cyclone Boom or @CorinaMarie any idea what that error code might be?

- Tyberius