[Solved] Lot Editor not functioning with Steam SC4

[tariely 4,496]

Trying to get back on the saddle. Bought SC4 from Steam, installed it, everything OK, but Lot Editor not functioning. Have been told to add a command to the shortcut target property. Still doesn't work.

Anybody here using Steam to play and also using the L.E. ?

(I'm playing on a virtual Windows with Parallels. Have tried with empty plugins folder -- after test folder almost empty -- No cigar.)

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

Hiya, @tariely.

I've Googled a bit on this and it seems Steam includes the LE somewhere in its installation folder structure. Is that the one you are running? There's also hints you might need to run it with administrator rights, but that seems more like a guess since it would only need access to your Plugins folder in Documents which shouldn't be a restricted area. And, ofc, many suggestions are to skip LE altogether and use PIM-X.

[tariely 4,496]

I've tried both PIM and LE but the LE works so much better for me for many reasons... I would resort to PIM if there is nothing else I can do but it will be a pain.

Anyhoo, I'd like to have another go at this before giving up. BTW where should the L.E. be in STEAM SC4 ? --if it is included in it ; and if not, where should I put it ?

(Haven't even checked if PIM is working...)

.............

Nope. Get an error message too. OK, I'm officially despondent. Again. Maybe the Goddess is trying to tell me something, here.

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

The topic I'd found only mentioned it's within the Steam install structure. You should be able to use File Explorer and type the program name into the search box and see if it finds it. From there (if found) you can right click, view properties, and find out its exact location.

Hopefully a Steam user can provide better info.

[tariely 4,496]

PIM doesn't work either ...

[rsc204 21,804]

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

here's also hints you might need to run it with administrator rights, but that seems more like a guess since it would only need access to your Plugins folder in Documents which shouldn't be a restricted area.

Bear in mind both the LE and PIM-X need to access the base SC4 dat files which are located in Program Files (x86) by default. Likewise, often such apps will want access to the Registry in order to locate such files. From my understanding, both would be off limits under Windows 10 without Admin rights.

Case in point, the PIM-X error shown is a result of a failure to read the registry keys needed to locate the SimCity_1 - 5 dats.

[tariely 4,496]

Will try again, thank you !

[tariely 4,496]

On 21/5/2019 at 9:06 PM, CorinaMarie said:

The topic I'd found only mentioned it's within the Steam install structure. You should be able to use File Explorer and type the program name into the search box and see if it finds it. From there (if found) you can right click, view properties, and find out its exact location.

Hopefully a Steam user can provide better info.

There is no "Steam install structure” that I can find. Steam installs sc4 in a Maxis folder, in ProgramFIles(x86) ; and there is no L.E. in there except the one I myself put in Apps. 

So . Any Steam user around here ? Anyone ? 

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

14 minutes ago, tariely said:

There is no "Steam install structure” that I can find. Steam installs sc4 in a Maxis folder, in ProgramFIles(x86)

Checking for the location they provided to me with when I wrote the updated damnControl.dat it looks like the default is:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\SimCity 4 Deluxe. (Not that that helps any.)

[rsc204 21,804]

9 hours ago, tariely said:

Steam installs sc4 in a Maxis folder, in ProgramFIles(x86)

No it doesn't. All Steam games install in a subdirectory of the Steam application, such as Corina's example here:

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\SimCity 4 Deluxe.

I suspect the Maxis folder still exists because you previously had the disk version of SC4 installed. But that is not where you are running SC4 from anymore.

9 hours ago, tariely said:

and there is no L.E. in there except the one I myself put in Apps.

Which again may be the problem. Without getting into technicalities, it's expecting certain files to be in the previous folder. Which if the game isn't installed where you are using the Apps directory, it may be unable to find.

As such, you need to locate the Steam install of SC4 and use or install the LE from that location.

[catty-cb 4,381]

I've just checked my SC4 Steam setup but I use Linux these days so can't be sure setup is the same, I don't have the LOT Editor I'm assuming I would have to install it from here

https://community.simtropolis.com/sc4-maxis-files/

The SC4 Game files are here along with a Plugins folder (all my plugins are in it and it seems to work ok)

/home/catty/.steam/steam/steamapps/common/SimCity 4 Deluxe/

But it also set up a folder here  and it also has a Plugins folder in it, but it doesn't recognize plugins you stick in it.

/home/catty/Documents/SimCity 4/....

[tariely 4,496]

Gah, I'm so dumb. Will go back and try again, Thank youse.

...........................

EDIT : (sheepishly) : Found Steam folder, steamapps, common and SimCity Deluxe folders. Put plugins in Plugins folder. Game works.

Now exactly where do I put lotEditor.exe and LotEditor.ini ? In which folder ?  (Tried to dezip it in the SC4 Deluxe Folder, still doesn't work.)

[rsc204 21,804]

Check the apps folder within the SC4 Deluxe folder. If there is already a LE application there, use that and not the one you are installing. Otherwise place the LE files into that folder. Either way, at this point you should create a new shortcut for it, either on the Desktop or wherever you prefer. To do this, drag the LotEditor.exe program to where you want the shortcut, but hold CTRL + Shift before you "drop" it, this creates a new, working shortcut. If you have an existing shortcut, either delete it or allow the new one to "overwrite" the old one. This will ensure all the settings for the shortcut are correct. Check if that works before adding the previous command, since you may not need it.

As a side note, I temporarily moved the LE application from Apps to the root (previous) folder. When I tried to run it, I got the exact same error as you. So it looks very likely it's simply installed in the wrong place. As I said previously, applications usually expect to be in a certain place, when they are not, many things can go wrong. Ideally, running the installer when adding new applications is best, because it will do all this for you.

[tariely 4,496]

(Hyperventilating) Can it be my problem will be solved and I can LE. again ???? Back in jif'

....................................

Just dropping the already dezipped files in Apps doesn't work (with or without the command.) . I'm gonna try with the installer.  Which is only a zip, right ? (I couldn't get anything on the EA SC4 link, the page won't uplad ; as for SC4D I get a 404 error for the link provided by Cockatoo [from google search]

It dezips only as LotEditor.exe and LotEditor.ini., right ? Nothing else ?

One dezipped in Apps, clicking on the .exe does the same thing as clicking on the shortcut (when I make a shortcut, with or without the command) :: the black window opens and the warning “Program ceased functioning” appears at once ; or the black windows opens, something is pedaling in the background, then after a while the same “Program Ceased Functioning” shows up.

What now ?

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

9 hours ago, tariely said:

EDIT : (sheepishly) : Found Steam folder, steamapps, common and SimCity Deluxe folders. Put plugins in Plugins folder. Game works.

While this will work, it is still recommended to place any user content plugin files in your Documents folder such as:

C:\Users\Cori\Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins (replacing Cori with your user name on your comp)

 

3 hours ago, tariely said:

I'm gonna try with the installer.  Which is only a zip, right ?

Are you getting  LotEditorInstaller.exe from our Maxis Files Page as @catty-cb mentioned? And no, that is an actual installer program and not just a self extracting zip file.

 

3 hours ago, tariely said:

It dezips only as LotEditor.exe and LotEditor.ini., right ? Nothing else ?

Again, nope. It's an installer which will place LotEditor.exe and LotEditor.ini in the appropriate folder based on what location it finds in your Registry as well as putting the Lot Editor Manual.htm (and its files folder), DetailPriorities.ini, and LotEditor.dat one folder level up from there.

When it installs (on a 64 bit OS) it is checking in the registry in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Maxis\SimCity 4 for the value stored in InstallDir. If you've had more than one install version, it might be getting confuzzled.

At this point, are you sure you've run the LotEditorInstaller.exe as downloaded from ST? When running it you should only see two screens:

Upon running:

 

And after it does its thing:

 

[tariely 4,496]

I was asking those questions because I knew something was not right. Which is why I also signaled that I couldn't download a fresh installer either from the EA site or the SC4D site... And now I have it, thank you Cori -- I didn't know where to look for it.

We Will Prevail, by Jove ! Stay tuned.

.................................

It works (she said, soberly. But you should see the raging orgy inside !)

................................

and now a question for @CorinaMarie : you said “While this will work, it is still recommended to place any user content plugin files in your Documents folder (...)—

If you meant a plugins folder with my stuff in it, may I ask why (or what else you meant by that)  ? The game opens much more slowly when I do it .

[tariely 4,496]

And again, thank you all !!!!

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

1 hour ago, tariely said:

If you meant a plugins folder with my stuff in it, may I ask why (or what else you meant by that)  ? The game opens much more slowly when I do it .

There are the two different Plugins folders. The one in Documents and the one in the installation folder. Everyone has always said to use the one in Documents since it doesn't get erased if you uninstall the game (providing you check the option to keep your cities). And that's the place all the downloads that have installers will place things. So, it keeps things nice and tidy if you only use the one.

There really shouldn't be any difference in load speed unless your install is on a Solid State Drive and your Documents are not.

[Cyclone Boom 16,829]

@tariely

Glad to hear the Lot Editor is now working for you.

Just adding to what Cori said above, and the Plugins folder in the game's installation will load first before any in the Documents location. This is important to consider how anything loading afterwards would override what enters memory beforehand. Then also it might be a lesser concern, but if on a shared computer and anything in the installation folder would also be used between all user accounts which run the game, with it being a common location. The Documents Plugins is an independent area.

I'm not so sure about the speed difference, and don't believe there would be a difference there (unless using a SSD in one place and not the other).

The sole purpose I use the installation Plugins is for placing DLL files being the Extra Cheats and the SC4Fix. The reason is because then when testing different sets of content in my Documents Plugins, it means those 2 DLLs will still be loaded no matter what.

Also the 5 city background PNG images are located there by default also, and these must be there or else they don't get recognised.

[tariely 4,496]

Let me check the technical stuff (bear with me...). My good old Mac desk computer is not SSD. The partition on which Windows is installed is on my Mac (also, it is not a shared computer). So no SSD in the loop. No discrepancy between the Document folder's location and the Steam Maxis Plugins folder location (right ?).

The loading speed (sheepish smile) was due to the fact that the game was loading an empty plugins folder (I am dumb, I tell you !)

I formerly used the Documents Plugins --for everything, including installs. If I keep on using it, and let the Steam Game Plugins empty, nothing in it (except the two DLLs Cyclone Boom lists)  will not override what is in Documents. Do I have that right ?

Re the Backbround PNG images : I am using (trying to use) another background (pretty clouds and blue skies...) and I should I put those in the Game Install Plugins  folder too in order for them (or any other background I want to try)  to be recognized. Yes ?

Last but not least : May I keep on playing musical chairs with Plugins TEST, Plugins GAME and Plugins BAT  with all three of them being in Documents (and only one of them at a time being “Plugins”, of course.)

[CorinaMarie 29,556]

@tariely

Yep, yep, yep, yep, and yep (if I got the count right). You have all the techy parts exactly right.

Just skip the part about being dumb. That I don't agree with.

[Cyclone Boom 16,829]

All sounds good to me.

For replacing the 5 background PNG images and they'd need to be named exactly as they are currently (with the .png file extension) or else they won't be loaded.

One is for each of the 5 main zoom levels (and the 6th is just a magnification of the 5th). So it'd probably be worth copying them over to a safe place first so the originals could always be restored if ever desired. There is an exception for backgrounds for the region view, as with the set of solid styles I created here. These types of backgrounds are different in being .dat files as with normal content, meaning they can go in either Plugins folder. Of course, with the Documents one being the preferable.

For having multiple extra folders inside of SimCity 4 in Documents and this is indeed something which is perfectly fine to do. I often make use of this strategy. The game will only recognise "Plugins" as the folder to load, and the same also for "Regions" also. Even one character difference in the name and it'll be seen as completely unique.

If you've any further questions, we're all here to help.

[tariely 4,496]

Oodles of gratitude all around !

Have a cookie.

 

[tariely 4,496]

And now that you have feasted upon the cookies (urp) : what about SC4PIM, which doesn't work either ? (I have the PIMeXtended version)

EDIT : BELAY THAT. I reinstalled it and it works now (happy dance).

[WannGLondon 2,237]

I realize I am almost a year late to this conversation, but I am having the same issue with LE on Windows 10. May I ask what was the resolution here? I am able to open the LE, but only if I check the compatibility settings box that runs it in 640x480 screen resolution, and once I attempt to select a lot (from the unpleasant, small screen), the LE crashes.

Please let me know.

Thanks -

[rsc204 21,804]

You probably just need to run the LE in software rendering, it uses a similar engine to SC4 itself, but given your problems, I'd start there. Right click the application's shortcut, select Properties and try adding the following to the end of the target line:

-d:Software

See if that makes it behave. You might also consider adding some other commands:

-w -r1280x768x32

This sets Windowed mode (-w) and a custom resolution, I don't think it supports anything much higher, but the values in orange can be altered to any supported (app) resolution.

Frankly though, I wouldn't bother with any of this, a third party tool, SC4 PIM / PIM-X combines both the Maxis PIM and LE applications into one. It contains many neat features and does away with some of the more annoying restrictions of the Maxis tools. You won't be able to adjust the Lot Size, nor set Water/Land constraints, the first of which is easily done in Reader. But those minor things aside, it's just better in every way.

[WannGLondon 2,237]

13 hours ago, rsc204 said:

You probably just need to run the LE in software rendering, it uses a similar engine to SC4 itself, but given your problems, I'd start there. Right click the application's shortcut, select Properties and try adding the following to the end of the target line:

-d:Software

See if that makes it behave. You might also consider adding some other commands:

-w -r1280x768x32

This sets Windowed mode (-w) and a custom resolution, I don't think it supports anything much higher, but the values in orange can be altered to any supported (app) resolution.

Frankly though, I wouldn't bother with any of this, a third party tool, SC4 PIM / PIM-X combines both the Maxis PIM and LE applications into one. It contains many neat features and does away with some of the more annoying restrictions of the Maxis tools. You won't be able to adjust the Lot Size, nor set Water/Land constraints, the first of which is easily done in Reader. But those minor things aside, it's just better in every way.

Thank you - I actually love the PIM and use it all the time, but I guess I need to take a deeper look into the user guide for it because I would like to choose different lot base textures/overlay textures and was not certain one could do-so with the PIM.

[rsc204 21,804]

It can appear to be more difficult at first, because the PIM-X LE only allows use of keyboard shortcuts to select/change objects on a lot. Whereas the Maxis one allows for doing this with buttons/mouse use.

With the LE part open, press T to edit textures, V for overlay textures and P for props. You can now select the textures from the Pop Out LE Tools window. Other commands are used too, if you don't have it, all is covered in the official PDF manual.

[WannGLondon 2,237]

Ah - thank you so much!

[rsc204 21,804]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

the PIM-X LE only allows use of keyboard shortcuts to select/change objects on a lot

I should add, so does the Maxis tool and both share the same basic configuration. Although PIM-X does more, for example the ability to set a grid and snap objects (ex. Props) to it.