Cover an entire tile in trees

[monkeywater 910]

What is the easiest way to do this?  I want to cover an entire tile in these https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2945 summer spruces?

 

They are in mayor mode, so I presume I would have to figure out how to create a tree controller?

[rsc204 21,862]

The question is not really if you want to cover an entire tile in these trees, but rather do you exclusively only want to use this tree for your God Mode Flora brush?

If that answer to that is yes, you can make an override of the Maxis Flora exemplars, by altering the RTK ID properties to the tree models you want to see. Bear in mind, such an override can not be seasonal, in that case you'd have to make a new tree controller.

The Maxis tree controller consists of three parts, Oaks in low-level areas, Pine trees in higher elevations with Scrub Brush mixed in between and on higher ground. Overriding it means having 5 tree models to replace the oaks, 5 to replace the pines and more if you want to replace the Scrub Brush. The first two are real easy to replace, although the clustering won't be perfect, if you just want a working mod, it's quick and easy to do. The mod attached to this post will serve as a good template if you want to go that route:

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

One technique I'm aware of and have personally made use of is the flora blast command. This is included as standard in the game (not even requiring the Extra Cheats Plugin), and supports 3 parameters which set the count for the center/outside, along with the coverage radius. This allows the God Mode trees to be planted throughout an entire tile to a desired density, which would otherwise only be available using the regular flora brush tool.

As this topic goes onto explain:

 

For using this method to plant custom flora, it does sound like it would indeed depend on a tree controller being created. Then for making it compatible and allow flora blasting, needing to override the Maxis default trees.

The specifics of such are beyond my current technical understanding. But the preliminary conclusions made in that topic were some tree controllers do this like Meadowshire. While on the contrary, others add new instances which don't replace the default oaks, pines, and shrubs, so the blasting does nothing except plant null invisible models. Therefore seemingly to use the desired spruce trees in your linked mod, a controller is what needs to be created. To get an idea in terms of the types of properties used, perhaps it's worth taking a look to compare those which do and don't work with flora blast, and then determining what steps might be necessary.

Also along with what @rsc204 linked in suggestion above, you may find the following tutorial by @11241036 useful if wishing to explore the possibilities of tree controllers:

 

[monkeywater 910]

I have found a tree controller that gives the desired distributions on my maps when I do flora blast: 

It also gives 2 files, one for replacing maxis low altitude oaks with pine, and a separate for replacing maxis mid altitude with pine.

 

Now, to give my ideal tree controller it will do a few things

1) Replace the PEG pines with the summer version of https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2770

2) Increase the tree density as I was not entirely happy with the resultant density of the PEG trees

3) Remove the high elevation shrubs and replace them with nothing (save CPU)

 

Starting at step 1 first:

I am lost.  I looked at the exemplars for the type of tree I wanted and edited the exemplars of the PEG mod to match the new tree.  But I was unable to figure out how to make it match the instance.

What am I doing wrong here? looking at your mod you have different exemplars in the mod file compared to the tree exemplar, so I am doing this super wrong.

Should I have just edited the resource keyType1 instead?

 

 

[rsc204 21,862]

5 hours ago, monkeywater said:

Should I have just edited the resource keyType1 instead?

On 06/11/2018 at 7:12 AM, rsc204 said:

you can make an override of the Maxis Flora exemplars, by altering the RTK ID properties to the tree models you want to see.

The exemplar IDs of PEG's mod and mine are identical, because, PEG's mod was the inspiration for how to do it. I however went and took the original exemplars from SimCity_1.dat and simply altered the Exemplar Name, then the Resource Key Type 1 property to link to the trees I wanted instead.

It should be noted that my mod includes other resources, you just need the 2 groups of exemplars (4 per tree) at the top and I'd keep the linked LText files. In other words, remove all the S3D files, these are there to alter the size of Girafe's trees without falling foul of community rules/altering every instance of such trees.

5 hours ago, monkeywater said:

2) Increase the tree density as I was not entirely happy with the resultant density of the PEG trees

This is highly complex and would likely require much tweaking to get right. See the tree controller tutorial (linked by Cyclone Boom), because the flora properties that control placement/clustering are all explained there.

5 hours ago, monkeywater said:

3) Remove the high elevation shrubs and replace them with nothing (save CPU)

It's easy to locate these exemplars in SimCity_1.dat, using the Reader's Navigator function, you can search by Flora, there really isn't a lot to sift through. Make a copy of such exemplars (I think there are 4 or 5), given each one a null key, i.e. 0x0,0x0,0x0 for the Resource Key property and you're good.

[monkeywater 910]

8 hours ago, rsc204 said:

The exemplar IDs of PEG's mod and mine are identical, because, PEG's mod was the inspiration for how to do it. I however went and took the original exemplars from SimCity_1.dat and simply altered the Exemplar Name, then the Resource Key Type 1 property to link to the trees I wanted instead.

Sorry for the silly questions, this is my first time modding at this level.  Before I only adjusted powerplant lifetimes and output.

 

I have opened the abies grandes prop file, and your mod in the reader.

I see in your mod the Resource Key Type 1 property that links to the grandes.

 

However in the grandes dat file I only see S3D and FSH files, I can't find the location where you obtained the Resource Key Type 1 property from.

 

EDIT:  I figured that part out, the resource key data was in the other dat, the summer abies grandes dat file.

 

 

Now to play with part 2:  I successfully flora blasted a large region with the pines, but as the below image shows, the density of them is super low compared to what is doable with the MMP.

 

[monkeywater 910]

Denser:

I may need to find a happy medium with how long it took to flora blast this...will this slow down a city vs no trees?

Density difference came from modding the 11 and 13 spaces of flora preferences.

 

For the 5 lower altitude trees they were:

2/2, 4/4, 6/6, 8/8 and 9/9

 

I modifed that to

1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5 to give this new image.

 

Higher (mid) altitude pines were left at @rsc204 defaults.

[monkeywater 910]

Here is where the two elevations change, and as such, tree density.

I'm not totally loving the elevation difference being where it is.

Next step will be adjusting that transition lower to minimize the amount of terrain I have with the high density trees.  Is there a way to measure elevation and correlate it to how to set the altitude rep table?

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

10 hours ago, monkeywater said:

I successfully flora blasted a large region with the pines, but as the below image shows, the density of them is super low compared to what is doable with the MMP.

I'm glad to hear the flora blast did work.

For the density of the coverage, it depends on the parameters used. The higher the numbers in combination, the more trees which will be planted. For me personally I've found using flora blast 400 400 400 to be adequate. Though I have also tried 3000 (x3) for an even more uniform coverage. Since MMPs are effectively individual flora models themselves, it could be how larger tree models are taking up more space. There is a limit to the number of flora instances which can be planted in any cell, and also limiting factors are with the steepness of the terrain and changes at higher elevations (like how Maxis shrubs only appear in elevated arid terrain).

 

6 hours ago, monkeywater said:

I may need to find a happy medium with how long it took to flora blast this...will this slow down a city vs no trees?

For any predominantly land-based tile, the time it takes for flora blasting will be maximised since it will attempt to plant in all areas. Should there be water, it skips the process and reduces time for it to complete by just focussing on areas where trees can be planted.

With regard to performance how SC4 renders flora objects, using a larger quantity may put extra demand on the game. This will be maximised depending on your shadow settings inside Graphics Options. As a suggestion, it might be worth turning this to Medium or Low if scrolling lag becomes a hindrance while building a city. Then considering to set it back to High for taking pictures or sightseeing.

 

5 hours ago, monkeywater said:

Is there a way to measure elevation and correlate it to how to set the altitude rep table?

There is a command included in the game called TerrainQuery which reveals the height of any point as hovered over. Once typing it in and hitting Enter, the regular query tool can then be used when inside Mayor Mode.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to make this happen in God Mode. So it might need to be used at checkpoint intervals with the tile saved, and then to establish the city temporarily to check the heights, before exiting back to region without saving. Having said that though, it might not be an issue since a city could be established and the flora blasting can still be done then, and also if needed, accessing terraforming tools by holding Ctrl+Shift+Alt and clicking the God Mode button.

As a preview using plain vanilla Maxis trees:

 

The type of tree will be described by the label. Then the height is represented by the y value which by default is 270 metres.

In a north-facing tile, the other coordinates are (in metres or cells from the top left corner):

x = Distance on the horizontal axis.
z = Distance on the vertical axis.

(There's a post here by @Ganaram Inukshuk which explains this very well in detail.)

[monkeywater 910]

Thanks for the terrain query command!

 

With this I continued exploring the effect of the tree controller.

The "gentle slope treeline", that is the separation of the high density from low density trees appears to be at 400m elevation.  In areas of higher moisture there may have been exceptions.(little ravine like places)

The hard tree line, the low density trees being separated from shrubberies. appears to be at 475.  Exceptions are made in high moisture locations.

Water is at 250 m.

I want to keep the hard tree line, and lower the soft tree line.

After staring at it 10 lines of 256 values each, i thought I figured how to adjust the density line and adjusted 16 values.  Below is the result.  Nope, failed.

 

Any further guides on this?

 

[monkeywater 910]

On 11/7/2018 at 5:16 AM, rsc204 said:

It's easy to locate these exemplars in SimCity_1.dat, using the Reader's Navigator function, you can search by Flora, there really isn't a lot to sift through. Make a copy of such exemplars (I think there are 4 or 5), given each one a null key, i.e. 0x0,0x0,0x0 for the Resource Key property and you're good.

This post has been so helpful!

 

I have found them via the navigator, however I cannot match the exemplars I find to those I find on the main directory of simcity_1.dat.  How does one copy a flora exemplar from the simcity_1.dat file to the tree controller?

[rsc204 21,862]

Simply right click the entry in Navigator, then select "Synchronise" and the selected file will be highlighted/shown in the main Reader window.

[monkeywater 910]

Covering an entire tile in highest-density trees, and then bulldozing 1/4 and trying to build a city in that 1/4 of a large tile... Told me high density trees are a no.  Really slowed everything down.

 

I decided to go with the standard density everywhere using flora blast, and then made a separate controller to swap out to use the brush with high density trees, only in small desired locations.

 

Is this safe to do?  It seemed to work.

[matias93 7,535]

Generally speaking, the answer would be no, because changing tree controllers is a known cause of CTDs. Nonetheless, I guess in this case the issue doesn't arise because both of your controllers point to the same tree models. I would keep a backup of all built city tiles anyway, just in case something goes awry.

[rsc204 21,862]

53 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Generally speaking, the answer would be no, because changing tree controllers is a known cause of CTDs. Nonetheless, I guess in this case the issue doesn't arise because both of your controllers point to the same tree models

The issue with CTDs comes from having flora that is planted in a city, but no longer existing in your plugins folder. The beauty of a simple override of Maxis trees, is that you can remove it without issue or even change the tree models. So actually this specific issue would not apply here.

However, the effects of altering the properties of the flora clustering for trees dynamically in this way are probably unknown. I would imagine it'd be fine, since it just controls where the trees go. But, switching between settings could cause undesirable effects, keeping backups and monitoring things is a good idea. 

[monkeywater 910]

So I am back at this a year later, making a less simple controller. Thanks @rsc204 and @Cyclone Boom for all the all the assistance last year!

 

I'll document my progress here

 

First a weird error.

 

I have not updated my previous tree controller, but I have downloaded more trees.  Oddly a couple brushes appear to have made their way into the controller, without action on my part.  weird.

 

 

Looking at my tree plugins it appears to be these: Temperate rainforest and jeronidog madrople forest, the icon above the selected one below.

No idea why this happens, but I like the look, so I won't fight it.

 

My next post will detail how I will replace the lower elevation pines with the coastal rainforest from the PNW tree controller

 

[monkeywater 910]

The coastal rainforest brush is my fave brush, especially the last 3 trees so here is what each click does, it appears to have 7 trees in it, so that will help me as I go looking for the right stuff to copypast from the PNW tree controller.

 

I also like a few trees from the old growth forest, so I'll jack some of those too.

[monkeywater 910]

I am running into my first issue, my favorite tree, the 7th coastal rainforest tree is apparently seasonal (but not really in game?) and is resourcekeytype4, not type1 like the rest.

How can I use @rsc204 's god mode tree replacer as a template, and still get coastal rainforest tree 7 in there (I don't care if it changes with seasons or not)

[monkeywater 910]

Scratch that last question, I was being dumb and looking at the wrong tree.

So its looking NICE

 

At higher elevation it transitions from meadow-->subalpine firs--> old growth rainforest

At lower it goes from meadow to birches to old growth forest.

 

I still need to play with loading order for some trees, and play with densities, and replace the maxis meadows with something nice.

 

But this is working surprisingly well.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

How's your game performance after stuffing the sector with all those thousands of trees? And how big is your save-game file now?

[monkeywater 910]

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

How's your game performance after stuffing the sector with all those thousands of trees? And how big is your save-game file now?

Fully treed tile at highest density of trees vs blank tile.

 

This is a city of 1.5 million, surrounded by PNW tree controller at max density that works just fine (lil slow with big bulldoze though)

 

 

Should be just fine.

[monkeywater 910]

Parameters 11 and 13 of flora preferences changed from

1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5

to

2/2, 4/4, 6/6, 8/8 and 9/9

 

This reduced the forest density and actually gave more variety in the treetops visible,

 

It also cut a blank tile filled with these trees using flora blast 3000 3000 3000 down to 4.6 megabytes from 7.9.

 

This alone probably makes it worthwhile.

 

 

[monkeywater 910]

I decided to switch the mid level trees from being all subalpine firs to being a few other tree types.

 

Very similar on the zoom out.  On the zoom in I don't have much preference I think.

[monkeywater 910]

I have this irrational hatred of space between trees, so I changed the upper tree density based on parameters 11 and 13 to 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5.

 

I like this better, but it won't be good for performance.  All these trees at this level are HD....

[monkeywater 910]

I tried to remove the trees

These are supposedly just mmp brushes.  But in when they are present in plugins they get placed with the god mode brush at some areas.

 

The below image is after removing them.  I will leave them in, I like the additional variety. (although this does mean I'm using two TCs at the same time?  YOLO I guess, no issues so far)

[monkeywater 910]

I doubled the density of the CPT madrogg forest and temperate forest

 

Same double density for the cycledogg trees, on a different tile in the region. Pay no attention to the big flat area, a city will go there.  But the trees contour nicely to the terrain

It looks really good, and the total file size is only 6.9 MB, which should be fine.

When I bulldoze the trees in the aprox area the town will go, the size decreases to 5 MB

[monkeywater 910]

So now I'm stumped (heh, a tree joke, get it?? LMFAO)

 

I want to edit the meadows.  (somehow without making files get even more insane, but I'll be adding HD bushes so RIP in pieces CPU)

On 11/7/2018 at 5:16 AM, rsc204 said:

It's easy to locate these exemplars in SimCity_1.dat, using the Reader's Navigator function, you can search by Flora, there really isn't a lot to sift through. Make a copy of such exemplars (I think there are 4 or 5), given each one a null key, i.e. 0x0,0x0,0x0 for the Resource Key property and you're good.

How do I copy exemplars? Also, where do I find simcity_1.dat?

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

I think it'll help to answer this first...

1 hour ago, monkeywater said:

Also, where do I find simcity_1.dat?

Try looking at:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\SimCity_1.dat

(For other installations like the Steam version, it should still be directly inside the game's folder.)

 

1 hour ago, monkeywater said:

How do I copy exemplars?

For copying exemplars or any entries inside Reader, it involves selecting any in the the left pane (Ctrl+Click to select multiple).

Then right click and choose the Copy file(s) option:

 

In terms of copying exemplars from the SimCity_1.dat file, it's possible to do this by opening 2 instances of Reader and do so. Probably the more assured method as @rsc204 mentioned is using the "Navigator" option. Upon clicking the Navig. button at the top, the exemplar list will be loaded.

This one: 

Then a tree list appears in a new window.

Scrolling down to the "Flora & Fauna" section, double click or use the + to expand the list, and do the same into "Flora" to open up the full range of the entries as grouped. Next when right clicking it's a case of using the Add to patch function.

Like so:

Note: Just an example above, and not saying the Flora Tuning Parameters are what you'll need.

This option loads the relevant exemplars into a list, from where they can be all saved into a new DAT file. The option for Group adding appears to be what allows the sub files to be added also, so that might be needed in certain cases.

Since this process involves copying them over to be saved in a new file, it'll contain the same TGI values which allows them to override the defaults in the SimCity_1.dat file. This stands for Type, Group, and Instance and can be seen in the status bar below, which corresponds to each of the columns in the main list. If useful, the Synchronise option allows any to be previewed in there, such as if preferring to manually copy an individual entry to an existing file you've got ready.

Once you've added however many needed as applicable this via the patch option, the next step is to click the Patch button.

Which is this: 

This will then open up the Patch Manager window:

Here I've also added a few misc Flora entries as an example.

The final step involves to click the Create DAT option as highlighted, then give it a name and Save the file.

From there any could be copied as needed into other .dat files you've already got. If so and a little extra step would be to right click in the left hand pane and use the "Rebuild Directory file" option. This ensures a DIR index is created if needed for any compressed entries. I believe Reader 0.9.3 does this automatically upon saving though, but it's a good habit to get into just as a preliminary precaution. The game wouldn't recognise any to be decompressed otherwise, and would crash.

Then just remember how the loading order takes precedence for any Instances (the "I" in TGI) which are identical in your Plugins folder.

Hope this helps!

[monkeywater 910]

Thanks!  Now I had a nice template tree controller from @rsc204 with exemplars for each tree of the brush, but not for the shrubs at high elevation.  How do I ensure I copy out all the ones that are applicable?

[monkeywater 910]

 I found the right flora parameters.

 

Thank you!

 

However every time I go to create dat with it, ilives reader crashes...