SC4 Future Planning

[MrBradB 9]

I wish I had the ability to work on future planning in-game. I currently make liberal use of sign posts to designate where future buildings, roads and zones will be. The problem is I can't "see" the footprint of those building(s), road(s) or zone(s). If I'm off by a single tile when actually placing the planned building, road or zone it can mess up the whole area.

I'd love to be able to go into "future planning" mode and "place" the building(s), road(s) and zone(s) and see the highlighted tiles of where everything will be placed. Upon leaving "future planning" mode, the area would look just like it did before.

Is something like this possible or does it already exist? I did a search of Simtropolis before starting this topic and I didn't find anything. I know that doesn't mean it isn't out there. It just means I didn't find it.

Thanks -- Brad

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I would absolutely love something like this, and whenever I think of what the ideal SimCity game would be, my thoughts include this.

Unfortunately it's not possible to add this to SC4.* This would be programming a new feature for the game, which would take some expertise by itself, but also access to the original game code which we don't have.

*On a super technical level, it might be possible using .dlls, but it's far beyond our ability at this point, and will probably always be.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

This is prolly me being silly, but why couldn't one create ploppable park lots similar to the Open Grass one which conforms to slopes and just paint the texture the appropriate color for low, medium, and high density of each zone type? Then create textured lots that would be for streets (just a square light gray), roads (square black) and for police stations and other civics have them orange with maybe a single letter like P or J for Police and Jail and so forth. These would be zero cost, zero maintenance, zero power needed, etc.

Make one for everything and call it the City Planner Pack. Basically it'd be a painter's package.

Spoiler

 

[Odainsaker 2,134]

I like to cast out grand axial layouts with landmarks in some sort of pretentiously meaningful alignment.  That leaves me often plopping lines of trees or counting plopped marker rocks at intervals.  Meanwhile, lonely monuments or their cleared work sites stand seemingly abandoned in the wilderness, sometimes even on completely different tiles, waiting for the day when the city will grow enough to actually reach them and hopefully with their alignments still true and intact.

While a proper planning "mode" is probably more than we can technically achieve, I wonder if we can still get something similarly useful with MMPs.  Instead of ad hoc rocks or trees placed at intervals, maybe a set of ploppable surveyor markers or even a little Sim with a theodolite, who when plopped casts out an overhang of hash lines, dashes, or even stakes for some set convenient number of tiles in a chosen direction.  Bulldoze the tile with the Surveyor Sim with the theodolite, and the demarcation line goes away.  When the timing and funding comes, drag your roads over the Surveyor Sims and they and their lines go away like just like bulldozed trees.  If this can work with dashed lines, then the same could be done with colored lines and fields to make something like generalized zones or building footprints.  Maybe also included as a special plop could be a sign, banner, or billboard indicating "Future Site of...", with a query text field allowing the player to fill in the blank.

[Propfam 2,288]

If you want add features that impossible for now, then you should contribute to KotCity, an open-source and free city simulator inspired by SimCity (1989) and SC3000. KotCity available on GitHub, meaning you can just create an issue or pull request.

OK, that requested feature isn't impossible, just more difficult. If you've installed Extra Cheats, then you can plop buildings one by one using BuildingPlop cheat. But, you should zone the appropriate zone for the building, otherwise the building will be abandoned.

If you want to control the zoning, use mods like IRM (industries separation based on density). Unfortunately, they generally to specific zone types. So, you need to download the mods you wanted.

To be concluded, SimCity 4 and basically almost all citysim aren't designed to be completely in control. They need to be automatic because too much interventions meaning giving headaches to the player. If you want skyscrapers, you need to improve your city in general and if you want slightly more, you can just plop it yourself.

Thanks.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I think one thing people do to measure lengths is drag out the road network (or one of the other networks) and look at the total cost of the length.

[MrBradB 9]

I really like CorinaMarie's idea.

I'd be happy with draggable puzzle pieces. It would be easy to drag out a 2x3 footprint and stick a signpost in the middle that reads "Elementary School." Different colors would represent different things: green -- residential, blue -- commercial, yellow/tan -- industrial, gray -- roads/rails/transportation in general, orange -- ploppable buildings such as schools, clinics, bus stations, etc. I, personally, wouldn't need different shades to represent different densities. I can keep track of that myself.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the modding side of the game.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

23 hours ago, MrBradB said:

I really like CorinaMarie's idea.

Thanks.

 

Disclaimer first: I have basically no idea what I'm doing. These are the first textures and lots I've ever created. Here's what they look like in the game:

 

It so happens the lot I cloned for my template was the Open Grass lot which I'd already edited with Reader to make the monthly cost minus one per month. That's still in there, but could be changed to zero. I changed the maximum slope from 40 to 256. These are using my personal Texture IIDs so there shouldn't be a conflict with anything else. I didn't do the fancy part of changing the item names in the menu or the hover over when plopped. (They will all say Open Grass Area.)

Consider this a proof of concept draft. No guarantees.

Edit: Fixed Bulldoze Cost and Monthly Cost to zero.

Planning_Blocks.zip

 

[adsii1970 85]

7 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Consider this a proof of concept draft. No guarantees.

It is a neat concept and is a great idea for a placeholder.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

I first suggested "shadow" construction back in 2013 to assist with holding space for future interchanges, stadiums and other large structures one can't afford to build or maintain in a start-up city. I'm glad to see others taking an interest now. Far from being impossible, one just needs some cheap lots sized to match known structures.

Until those are invented, the old-school workaround is to print out a list of structures you care about and then paint farms where you plan to plop. You can build roads around the farms and drop signs to remind yourself what the site is being saved for.

[MrBradB 9]

@CorinaMarie, I like it!

2 questions: 1) Is it possible to add transparency so they would be more subtle? and 2) how do I add them to the game?

Thanks, Brad

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

8 minutes ago, MrBradB said:

1) Is it possible to add transparency so they would be more subtle?

Someone who knows what they are doing might be able to add transparency, but I have no clue how to do that. What I did figure out was I can create a 128x128 pixel PNG image and convert that to a texture which I can then place on a lot. I added a 1 pixel black border to all except I made it white around the black one. Any color(s) you'd want to create in the image could then become the lot. Like if you wanted to use a more subdued version of each color that would be doable.

 

10 minutes ago, MrBradB said:

2) how do I add them to the game?

If you grabbed the file a few moments ago, delete that one. I just fixed it up so there is no bulldoze cost and the monthly cost is now zero per month. Re-download from the linky in my post above. Unzip the file and place the folder it creates in your Plugins folder under SimCity 4 in your Documents folder. Then they will show up in the Parks menu.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Just to clarify: I believe transparency in the game would be letting some of the ground texture show thru. While it might be possible, it's not something I know how to do. On the other hand, if you are referring to making the colors not so bright, that is within my capabilities.

How about these shades?

[MrBradB 9]

Yes, transparency would allow some of the underlying texture to show thru. Not a big deal really. I'm definitely going to dl the file you created and start using it.

Thanks again, Brad

 

[matias93 7,535]

On 11-03-2018 at 8:04 PM, Jasoncw said:

I would absolutely love something like this, and whenever I think of what the ideal SimCity game would be, my thoughts include this.

Pinging @kotcity on this, not only because of the wishlist theme of the first comments but also because I remember that the original SimCity had a pair of pencil tools to make annotations and draw over the city (or it was only Micropolis?). Anyway, this could be implemented on a more practical way by making a 'virtual' layer to work like a sandbox.

[kotcity 110]

13 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Pinging @kotcity on this, not only because of the wishlist theme of the first comments but also because I remember that the original SimCity had a pair of pencil tools to make annotations and draw over the city (or it was only Micropolis?). Anyway, this could be implemented on a more practical way by making a 'virtual' layer to work like a sandbox.

DANG! I love you people. This is super easy to implement and I never even thought to do so. I don't see any reason why I can't add this to 1.x. We already have superimposed layers and GPU accelerated alpha blending. This is like a few hour detour.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

32 minutes ago, kotcity said:

DANG! I love you people. This is super easy to implement and I never even thought to do so. I don't see any reason why I can't add this to 1.x. We already have superimposed layers and GPU accelerated alpha blending. This is like a few hour detour.

So to expand on my thoughts for this feature, when building things you would go into a special planning mode, which is a lot like how the game normally is, except all of the changes you make are not committed until you finalize them. So for example, if you wanted to build a bridge somewhere, you could enter planning mode, and terraform and build and demolish and terraform as much as you wanted until it was the way you wanted, and then you could either commit to the changes, or cancel. The cost of the changes would be tallied in the corner of the screen when in planning mode, so that in that example you would only pay to have the bridge built once. It would also be useful when doing things like terraforming coastlines, where you could accidentally demolish buildings.

Another nice thing about such a feature is that you can price infrastructure more realistically. In SC4, you build and demolish and rebuild everything over and over until you get it right. Gameplay wise, something like a long subway line should be expensive. But it can't be expensive if you have to demolish and rebuild it a few times before you get it the way you want. With a planning mode you would only pay for the final result.

[kotcity 110]

40 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

So to expand on my thoughts for this feature, when building things you would go into a special planning mode, which is a lot like how the game normally is, except all of the changes you make are not committed until you finalize them. So for example, if you wanted to build a bridge somewhere, you could enter planning mode, and terraform and build and demolish and terraform as much as you wanted until it was the way you wanted, and then you could either commit to the changes, or cancel. The cost of the changes would be tallied in the corner of the screen when in planning mode, so that in that example you would only pay to have the bridge built once. It would also be useful when doing things like terraforming coastlines, where you could accidentally demolish buildings.

Another nice thing about such a feature is that you can price infrastructure more realistically. In SC4, you build and demolish and rebuild everything over and over until you get it right. Gameplay wise, something like a long subway line should be expensive. But it can't be expensive if you have to demolish and rebuild it a few times before you get it the way you want. With a planning mode you would only pay for the final result.

Very interesting. I need to think about this with my engine. Maybe I pause the sim while you "test" out changes and you either commit or revert them. Originally I was thinking just a colored layer for planning (easy). What you have proposed is a little more complex and I am not sure I can easily incorporate it.

[redfox85 659]

I future plan my districts in excel. I'll first divide everything out into phases. my current region is split in half by a large bay and the phases work out like this: 

phase 1-2 post wwii housing
phase 3-4 modern housing
phase 5-6 pre-wii housing
phase 7-8 industry & seaport
phase 9 medium density
phase 10 downtown
phase 11 stadium district
phase 12 seawalls

I first layed out the grid network for phase 1 to 4. One grid contains green avenues, the other red TLA-3's. From there I screenshot the area for phases 1-6, paste in excel, transpose the grid into excel and assign the tileset. Background color denotes the tile, black the roads, gold the highway so it looks like this:

 

For the later phases (7 to 10) I know where the rest goes (... visual memory  ). I use excel to plan out the diagonal lots, Now I do play with many cheats and parks with jobs and cap relief so I can build res first. Lot plopped the industry phase, and so far for phase 7 to 8 I've created around 130 lots. Phase 1 to 6 took 6 months. Phase 7 to 8 I'm entering month 6 but almost done. Phase 9 to 11 will take atmost 2 months. Its phase 12 that terrifys me,  but I am starting to prototype the sea wall.

 

[doldrum 67]

MrBradB

This isn't as ambitious as your mod idea, but it has worked for me thru the years.

1st) Does something like this work for you?

These are some textures I made years ago, and placed on 1 x 1 lots in my Landmarks menu, as planning lots. These TGI's were chosen because of a small gap available in the MAXIS textures. Those IID's might not be available to you.

If you are interested, I can give you the lots & textures.

2) The use of the labels needs a little more explanation and some rudimentary Reader knowledge.Supplied w/SC4, is a Courier font. Using Reader, I replaced the label font w/ the Courier font and resized it. The advantage is that font allowed me to use these symbols using a trick of Win98/WinXP, that may not be available on other OS's: holding down the 'ALT' key while typing a 3 or 4 digit ASCII code on the Number Pad lets you use the special symbols in the font.

 

3) Finally, I went one step further: using some old DOS hex editing hacker tools, I found in the .exe the MsgID for the label and sign tools, and replaced things I would never use in the KeyCfg.ini file (how many times do you need a keyboard shortcut to place a Ferry? ) w/ keyboard shortcuts for Signs and Labels.

I know that other people may find those things interesting, too, but as  I have other things going on, it may take me a little while to make those available, with clear explanations on how to do it.

P.S. I lament the lose of much old knowledge from this site. There used to be a small .dat file available called "Stupid Texture". It was just a texture of a scribble. In the old days, modders who wanted transparent bases would load an LE completed lot into the Reader, and manually delete the base file from the Lot Config. You had to be careful and know what you were doing. With the "Stupid Texture" you would use it for a base texture in the LE, and then just remove it from your plugins. The only downside to either technique is known as the "Water Bug". If you use an overlay texture w/o a base texture and go into any underground view, when you return to the surface, the lot is black. The only way to return to normal is to exit to Region View and return. There is no harm,  just inconvenience.

PP.S. jeffryfisher - I know you from the RRTycoon site, I was 'theguyintheshed". It's been years since I've been back there. I still owe you some info on hacking the . exe to create custom farms. Give me some time, and I will try to get back to you.

Note: Not sure if I did this right. Doesn't seem to be a clear option to delete a mistakenly embedded pic. Any tips for an old dog trying to learn new tricks?

[rsc204 21,808]

10 hours ago, doldrum said:

Those IID's might not be available to you.

Ideally you should use a dedicated ID range, because even if Maxis didn't use these IDs, they may be used in common or uncommon dependencies. If you just need a handful for this, I could happily provide you with them. Otherwise you can request a personal range here.

10 hours ago, doldrum said:

There used to be a small .dat file available called "Stupid Texture". It was just a texture of a scribble...

...you would use it for a base texture in the LE, and then just remove it from your plugins.

Such a file isn't really necessary. If you're aware of the game limitation on Lot Transparency, i.e. if using Overlay textures without Base textures = the water bug, making such lots is easy enough. Either use PIM-X, which is an improved combined version of Maxis' PIM and LE tools, since it lets you save lots without Base textures. Otherwise, the trick removing them in the Reader doesn't require a special texture to pull off. Note the ID of the Base textures (best to use an identical one for all tiles), then you know which IDs to look for and remove in Reader.

10 hours ago, doldrum said:

I lament the lose of much old knowledge from this site.

Not having been here until maybe 2012-2013, I can't really say about lost information. What I can tell you is that what remains was sufficient for me to learn most aspects of Modding SC4. If you have any desire to get back into that side, no doubt most of what you need still exists. With the site being around so long, some information is a little buried. But for the most part if you need help, someone will usually answer any posts in this regard.

10 hours ago, doldrum said:

Doesn't seem to be a clear option to delete a mistakenly embedded pic.

Click to select the image, press delete on your keyboard should work?

I tried to edit the post for you , but it seems an old gremlin has krept in, where it gets re-embedded at the end of the post. @Cyclone Boom, @CorinaMarie: can either of you help with that please?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

12 hours ago, doldrum said:

Doesn't seem to be a clear option to delete a mistakenly embedded pic.

And @rsc204, CB and I noticed the extra pic at the end last night, but decided we'd leave it to see if doldrum went back to edit. Unlike the double image bug the site once had, this was a case of an actual extra upload. When not placed in the post itself the editor tosses it at the end when saving. The extra pic is already gone. From the edit logs it seems you did figure it out.

When in the editor you'd see this down at the bottom:

^ Then to remove any attachment, just click the trashcan in the lower right corner of the image to ditch it.

 

12 hours ago, doldrum said:

Any tips for an old dog trying to learn new tricks?

From my sig: Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis. (That has a few tips and tricks in it.)

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

Just to add, I've checked from the database side and all appears fine now after double checking the pic is no longer associated for the duplicate. Then making sure how the other one is correctly referenced in the relevant table. As Cori said, our suspicions are it must've been another uploaded and then automatically tacked onto the end.

Here's how the record looks now:

No worries about these things, and that's why as staff we're here to help.

[doldrum 67]

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Ideally you should use a dedicated ID range, because even if Maxis didn't use these IDs, they may be used in common or uncommon dependencies. If you just need a handful for this, I could happily provide you with them. Otherwise you can request a personal range here.

I'm aware of those problems. These were for personal use, so I had no qualms about using my own IID's. Were I publishing mods publicly, I would have used the IID reservation system (though I have some philosophical concerns about some elite system of parceling out IIDs. Believe it or not, I DO understand the pro/cons of the argument.) I pointed out the IID concern, if the OP was interested in using my lots, so he would be aware of it.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Such a file isn't really necessary. If you're aware of the game limitation on Lot Transparency, i.e. if using Overlay textures without Base textures = the water bug, making such lots is easy enough. Either use PIM-X, which is an improved combined version of Maxis' PIM and LE tools, since it lets you save lots without Base textures. Otherwise, the trick removing them in the Reader doesn't require a special texture to pull off. Note the ID of the Base textures (best to use an identical one for all tiles), then you know which IDs to look for and remove in Reader.

Please clarify for me. As i read this, I think your saying the game proper will use a lot without a base, that PIM-X simply supersedes the Maxis LE requirement to have a base texture? The "Stupid Texture" trick was for users to avoid having to find the texture IID in the Reader. I am aware you didn't need it for the Reader trick. I was simply trying to clarify for the OP the gist of the trick, and emphasis the loss of old knowledge.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Not having been here until maybe 2012-2013, I can't really say about lost information.

Despite my lack of profile-able activity on the site, I've been here a long, long time. The loss of information is HUGE.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

What I can tell you is that what remains was sufficient for me to learn most aspects of Modding SC4.

Please forgive me if I sound rude. It is not intended. I'm not talking about "Modding" as it seems to be used nowadays. The title of this forum is "Modding- General Discussions". Once upon a time, there was a forum titled "Modding-Research and Development". Big difference.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

If you have any desire to get back into that side, no doubt most of what you need still exists. With the site being around so long, some information is a little buried. But for the most part if you need help, someone will usually answer any posts in this regard.

My point - that info is not buried, its GONE. But thank you, I know posters are always looking to help.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Click to select the image, press delete on your keyboard should work?

Tried that, didn't seem to work. I couldn't properly select the image in the edit box, ala Ms-Office, without getting a popup that didn't have a delete option. Finally, I just zeroed all the specs of the image. (By the way, I was trying to delete the large white font symbol pic, not the one currently at the end.

 

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I tried to edit the post for you , but it seems an old gremlin has krept in, where it gets re-embedded at the end of the post. @Cyclone Boom, @CorinaMarie: can either of you help with that please?

Thanks for trying, I'll see if I can figure it out.

 

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

And @rsc204, CB and I noticed the extra pic at the end last night, but decided we'd leave it to see if doldrum went back to edit. Unlike the double image bug the site once had, this was a case of an actual extra upload. When not placed in the post itself the editor tosses it at the end when saving. The extra pic is already gone. From the edit logs it seems you did figure it out.

I will try to re-edit it, yes it was an accidental extra upload. (Told you its been a long time since I've done this.) BTW, yes, I deleted the pic I wanted to delete, but re-visiting the thread today, there is still an extra pic at the end. I will see what I can do.

 

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Then to remove any attachment, just click the trashcan in the lower right corner of the image to ditch it.

Didn't notice the trashcan.

 

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

From my sig: Check out the Introduction and Guide to Simtropolis. (That has a few tips and tricks in it.)

Thanks, I will definitely look at that.

[doldrum 67]

8 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Just to add, I've checked from the database side and all appears fine now after double checking the pic is no longer associated for the duplicate. Then making sure how the other one is correctly referenced in the relevant table. As Cori said, our suspicions are it must've been another uploaded and then automatically tacked onto the end.

Here's how the record looks now:

No worries about these things, and that's why as staff we're here to help.

Thank you, Cyclone Boom ( and CorinaMarie, and rsc204). You were all helpful. I think I got it now. Just to clarify, by accident, I attached a 2nd copy of the large white font symbol pic. That was what I had trouble deleting. On visiting the thread today, I found the pic embedded at the end, showing one of the two in-game pics of the symbols. After reading everyone's msgs., I went back to re-edit the post. After some confusion as to which I was deleting/inserting, I think its straight now. Sorry if this totally confuses your database.

On a side note - though I did not expect much reaction to my planning lots and textures, I was a little deflated by the non-reaction to the labels/font aspect.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 hours ago, doldrum said:

On a side note - though I did not expect much reaction to my planning lots and textures, I was a little deflated by the non-reaction to the labels/font aspect.

Atm, I see 6 positive reactions for your post containing them. Keep in mind very few peeps label things in their game so that'll limit the audience for same as well as it can take days or weeks for all active and semi-active members to catch up on posts.

[doldrum 67]

A query - I am prepping my above lots for an attachment to this thread. They are good to go.

However, the 'KeyCfg', 'Fonts.ini', & 'LabelUI' mods are of some concern to me. Am not too concerned for myself, but would I create a problem for this site, with Maxis, by uploading modified versions of those files from the simcity_1.dat file, that use the same IIDs.

In particular, the 'KeyCfg' mod contains un-published info extracted from the .exe, specifically the MsgIds for signs & label?

Could probably get around this by writing a 'readme' that tells how to make the change, with the affected lines excerpted, but need to know prior to writing the readme. I DO NOT plan to publish this generally on the STEX. Would have messaged you, but that site function appears to have a problem at the moment.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

No worries at all, it's perfectly fine to ask about this here.

My own personal feeling on the matter is that as a creative and enterprising idea for a mod, this is perfectly fine and above board. How uploading your creation to the STEX would actually be a platform to be of wider use for people in the community than just here in the forums. It really is clever and thoughtful what you've created.

That said however, as you suspect, we do have to take caution with respect to legal compliance with the EULA of the game and other applicable policies.

A lot of this is very much subject to interpretation. For data extracted from the executable, this might pose somewhat of a concern should that have been retrieved through certain means such as reverse engineering of code (which understandably is a very sensitive subject). However for the purpose with this being information gained to set the correct IID values and whatnot, I imagine this would then be used as a helper to perform a specific function. As such and it could be seen as gaining knowledge to assist with a purpose, and not altering the game by modifying the executable directly. That particularly I believe is where the line needs to be drawn in any case.

In terms of including templates for the fonts and labels (being UI elements), that's something which is accepted as a common practice with modding. Given all types of SC4 mods use the DBPF file format (as containers), and then to override individual instances inside the SimCity_1.dat and other data files.

We'll discuss this and get back to you with a verdict either way. Thanks for asking.

[doldrum 67]

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

My own personal feeling ...

Thanks for the compliment.

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

That said however, as you suspect, we do have to take caution with respect to legal compliance with the EULA of the game and other applicable policies.

The reason I asked. I have no problem with receiving a 'cease & desist' order to me, personally. Didn't want to be the cause of a site problem.

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

A lot of this is very much subject to interpretation.

You DO recognize law is written by lawyers, don't you? "Honey! Let's do Paris next vacation, OK?"

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

For data extracted from the executable, this might pose somewhat of a concern should that have been retrieved through certain means such as reverse engineering of code (which understandably is a very sensitive subject).

It was not reverse engineering, as I think the term is intended. I was aware of strings in the .exe. I wanted a keyboard shortcut for signs & labels. There were hex numbers in the 'KeyCfg.ini". Got nosy. Noticed the strings (reflective of the comments in the 'KeyCfg.ini' file) had addresses associated with them. Curiously, there were addresses where the 'KeyCfg' file had no break. Found the addresses referred to a place earlier in the .exe (probably, the compiler did that), where the called functions actually reside Did NOT examine source code. Not possible with a simple hex editor. Trial and error. Found MsgIDs that worked, put them in my 'KeyCfg'.

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

In terms of including templates for the fonts and labels (being UI elements), that's something which is accepted as a common practice with modding. Given all types of SC4 mods use the DBPF file format (as containers), and then to override individual instances inside the SimCity_1.dat and other data files.

I understand that. It is the basis of all the modding. Strictly speaking though, what I have are not templates. They are copies of the existant files, with the same IIDs, and minor (!) modifications. Is that just an override, if it involves info from the .exe, specifically left out by Maxis? I don't see a problem with my font choice & mods for labels, or my mod to the label UI. It's the 'KeyCfg' file that concerns me.

 

13 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

We'll discuss this and get back to you with a verdict either way. Thanks for asking.

Please do. I don't want to create a problem.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

4 hours ago, doldrum said:

Trial and error. Found MsgIDs that worked, put them in my 'KeyCfg'.

First of all, we appreciate your concern for how you felt unsure whether this is permissible or not. Based on your detailed description of the process, we're satisfied how obtaining the IDs has not involved any process which decompiles, deconstructs, or modifies the executable in any form for the intended purpose. As such with using trial and error to get this to work, that was how you've found the values and then integrated them into your custom keyboard shortcut configuration.

 

4 hours ago, doldrum said:

Is that just an override, if it involves info from the .exe, specifically left out by Maxis? I don't see a problem with my font choice & mods for labels, or my mod to the label UI. It's the 'KeyCfg' file that concerns me.

What you've done is to gain knowledge from peaking under the hood, not by reverse engineering which may potentially be frowned upon in a legal sense. For this to work by hooking into a function inside the executable, that's code which remains untouched by your modding efforts here. Similarly to when extracting data including UI elements and exemplar overrides from the internal .dat files. The only difference here is the technical mastery of how those values are directed when assigned accordingly.

Therefore in our judgement, it's nothing that anyone needs to be concerned about.

You have permission to upload your mod containing all files needed to ensure functionality. This can be done either in this thread as a zip file attachment, or even in a STEX upload if that might be preferable. It's completely your call on that front too, so just what you feel would be best.

Most of all, the works you've created will surely be of benefit to the community as a new inventive idea for SC4 city planning.

By the way, as a side note...

When replying it's possible to use Selective Quoting to choose individual parts of posts to reply outside of quotes.

I've fixed your above post and a couple prior ones to move your replies below those quoted (thanks for the italics which helped). It's all good and no worries at all, but just thought I'd mention that as a little tip for when replying again in multiple parts.