How many of you use Sketchup as your primary 3d modeling application?

[Irkie500 0]

I have been using sketchup hobby wise for several years now, making small 3d projects for my own enjoyment, but I recently got the urge to try and venture off and make a building or two for Cities Skylines. I do have 3ds Max via the student license and I even got a great deal on a 20 hour training course, but I felt really overwhelmed with all of the UI options I have available to me. The main reason I love sketchup is its ease of use, and fluidity when designing objects. With that being said would it be wise to really just sit down and learn 3ds Max, or is sketchup fine to use for making in game buildings? I realize there are some limitations such as UV mapping and I know the models can sometimes get a little "dirty" so to speak in terms of tris, but I would rather stick to what I know.

Does anyone here use sketchup as their main tool? What types of challenges do you run into, and why do you prefer it over something like Max or Maya?

 

Thanks!

[bsquiklehausen 190]

Use Max or Maya if at all possible. The tools are much more robust, and the interfaces are professional standards, unlike Sketchup or even Blender. It'll let you get much finer control of UV layouts, edge flow, soft/hard edges, and lots of other small details that can make a model great.

[pauliaxz 195]

There are several modders who use Sketchup for making buildings, or mainly to convert already made models.

I, personally, don't use Sketchup nor convert anything from it. Conversion (fixing and modifying imported Sketchup model) takes comparatively a lot of time as to make model from scratch.

 I am also 3ds Max user and I make everything using it only. I recommend you to grasp the basics and more of modelling using 3ds Max

[Darf 1,439]

IMO blender and 3dsMax have really terrible interfaces. Sketchup is fine, just know what to use it for and how to use it. The rest you can still do in Blender or 3dsMax.

[Lost Gecko 481]

I started with Sketchup, only using Blender for UV mapping for pretty much the same reasons as you: it's very easy to use. I had never heard about anything related to 3d modeling before so Blender and the like were incredibly daunting. You can get the work done with Sketchup just fine for square-ish models but as the others say it's really worth switching to 3ds Max. You don't have to learn it all in one go: after UV mapping I began to take care of shading in Blender as well, then tweeking the geometry a bit, and from there you can make the transition very progressively. I've achieved this transtion three months ago (having started modeling 8 months ago) and never looked back

[Irkie500 0]

Thanks guys! I know of several sketchup plugins that can make life a lot easier, and seeing how the program was designed mainly for architectural purposes it is hard for me to break away from it. I know max and maya are industry standard so I do want to learn them thoroughly at some point, but I may take the route here of "use as needed" until I feel more comfortable with the controls and layout.

Honestly its the UV mapping that makes me the most nervous since every video I watch on it, it seems like a ton of steps to get everything proper. Not to mention the more complicated the model, the more mapping it takes. Serious props and hats off to all of you who crank out very detailed models on a regular basis.

[pauliaxz 195]

Yeah, UV mapping is the big deal for more complex models. I tend to lose motivation in the beginnings of UV mapping. Just seeing how much still is left to do, and then telling to myself: "no, not today.. I'm done."

It is actually nothing difficult, it is just tedious.

[boformer 3,169]

I also made a few models with Sketchup. Then I imported the models into blender for cleanup and UV mapping.

I don't recommend it: The cleanup took longer than the actual modeling.

Blender offers the same modeling tools as Sketchup (and even more advanced stuff). It takes a few weeks to learn, but it's worth it.

[Irkie500 0]

8 minutes ago, boformer said:

I also made a few models with Sketchup. Then I imported the models into blender for cleanup and UV mapping.

I don't recommend it: The cleanup took longer than the actual modeling.

Blender offers the same modeling tools as Sketchup (and even more advanced stuff). It takes a few weeks to learn, but it's worth it.

Just out of curiosity what does sketchup do to the models that makes them "dirty". I know it has to do with how sketchup treats things that are extruded or something along those lines. Can it be avoided by using groups and components, and then flatten them all together when you go to export? Basically take all your components and make them one large component?

[Avanya 2,605]

SketchUp creates alot of extra faces/tris which aren't needed due to the way it works, which makes it not very useful for Cities: Skylines, where optimized assets matter. I remember someone who works in SketchUp and is able to group things so there isn't a large clean up needed afterwards, but ofc I can't remember who. Also SketchUp seems to have some issues creating LODs as it's more careless with UV coordinates, which C:S doesn't like.

I've got a good example of the extra tris it adds. Here's a pile of tires, highlighted in orange is 207 faces (triangles), which are completely invisible in game. The 2nd image has 4 triangles highlighted, which should really only be 2. It all adds up landing this pile at 3577 tris. Getting rid of the unneeded faces and merging the extras like on the 2nd image brings it down to 2472. so that's a clear difference. And like boformer said you can easily end up spending more time cleaning up a model than you spent on Blender. That said Blender isn't the easiest program to learn, but it's free and it can do all you need for creating assets for the game. Since you have access to 3ds max I'd suggest learning that. There's some guides here, on the workshop and ofc on youtube to get you started. Most importantly you don't need to know all the program can do to make models for C:S. And in the long run it'll be quicker to learn something proper than clean up all those SketchUp models.

[Irkie500 0]

35 minutes ago, Avanya said:

SketchUp creates alot of extra faces/tris which aren't needed due to the way it works, which makes it not very useful for Cities: Skylines, where optimized assets matter. I remember someone who works in SketchUp and is able to group things so there isn't a large clean up needed afterwards, but ofc I can't remember who. Also SketchUp seems to have some issues creating LODs as it's more careless with UV coordinates, which C:S doesn't like.

I've got a good example of the extra tris it adds. Here's a pile of tires, highlighted in orange is 207 faces (triangles), which are completely invisible in game. The 2nd image has 4 triangles highlighted, which should really only be 2. It all adds up landing this pile at 3577 tris. Getting rid of the unneeded faces and merging the extras like on the 2nd image brings it down to 2472. so that's a clear difference. And like boformer said you can easily end up spending more time cleaning up a model than you spent on Blender. That said Blender isn't the easiest program to learn, but it's free and it can do all you need for creating assets for the game. Since you have access to 3ds max I'd suggest learning that. There's some guides here, on the workshop and ofc on youtube to get you started. Most importantly you don't need to know all the program can do to make models for C:S. And in the long run it'll be quicker to learn something proper than clean up all those SketchUp models.

Thanks for the visual aid man appreciate it! I know sketchup has tools like CleanUp that will remove excess lines, faces, and things like that, but what I don't know is how that ultimately translates afterwards.

I will dig more into 3ds max I guess. My biggest thing is I have been sorely strapped for time lately with house renovation projects and the like, so sitting down for several hours days on end to learn a whole new program doesn't exactly excite me, but I suppose the light at the end of the tunnel should!

[Darf 1,439]

You guys are a bunch of SketchUp Newbs.  It's really not that hard to avoid excess faces lines and all the other stuff you complain about. Sorry Avanya, but that's one of the worst things you can do in Sketchup: just use one object. Like in any 3d program you have to combine objects. Just create one element, group it or make it a component and use the different layers. More difficult objects are all pretty easy to make if you know how (for example custom spheres). Just look at this example of Sketchup where the combination would have to give zilions of intersected faces like in your example, but is created in the right way. 

https://skfb.ly/6nHpM

UV mapping and normal mapping is a different thing, but in modelling SketchUp really is king.

 

[Avanya 2,605]

No worries - the model in the pictures aren't mine and I've never used SketchUp myself. So all my "experience" on the area is what others have said and the models I've seen come out of SketchUp.

[Lot Creator 304]

As someone who has experience with modeling with mostly Blender, it's worth it. You can even get jobs if you have enough experience with it and fascinating times with it. One of the key things to remember about Blender is knowing the key sets, that is, shortcuts and knowing what they do. You also have to eventually understand how the 3D world works and how textures, the model, and everything works together to produce the final result. Textures are a breeze once you know what to do, screenshots, renders, etc, are all possible.

Sometimes it's not about the learning curve for the program, its more about learning how to model that is the harder part.

L.C.

[Irkie500 0]

1 hour ago, Darf said:

You guys are a bunch of SketchUp Newbs.  It's really not that hard to avoid excess faces lines and all the other stuff you complain about. Sorry Avanya, but that's one of the worst things you can do in Sketchup: just use one object. Like in any 3d program you have to combine objects. Just create one element, group it or make it a component and use the different layers. More difficult objects are all pretty easy to make if you know how (for example custom spheres). Just look at this example of Sketchup where the combination would have to give zilions of intersected faces like in your example, but is created in the right way. 

https://skfb.ly/6nHpM

UV mapping and normal mapping is a different thing, but in modelling SketchUp really is king.

 

Hey Darf, would you mind expanding on combining objects? I am familiar with Sketchup's group and component system, as well as layers. Are you saying to make the base of the building a component, the windows components, etc? In a sense all large structural components their own component? If so that's pretty standard practice in sketchup to maintain clean heiarchy within the model.

 

Just curious as to what your process is, as I browsed a couple of your buildings from the link you posted and they look great! did you photo match those textures from google itself, or are they custom?

**Also do things like walls and roofs need actual thickness or is it fine to make them as just a plane? I am so used to everything having thickness that might be a small adjustment I need to make.

[merc187 46]

When the game came out a while back and I realized that modding in this game meant I could create models to put into the game I eagerly wanted to learn how to 3D model.

 

I researched the software available and found SketchUp and Blender as the 2 free ones that were commonly used.  I started using SketchUp due to having a Google account etc.  I quickly found it was very inadequate and too simplistic for modeling game assets.  I quickly moved on to Blender and spent the next 6 months poking around, torturously slow, until I could figure out how to navigate the software and make some simplistic models.  I have learned a lot since then but still, Blender or another program like 3DS is the way to go.

[Irkie500 0]

3 minutes ago, merc187 said:

When the game came out a while back and I realized that modding in this game meant I could create models to put into the game I eagerly wanted to learn how to 3D model.

 

I researched the software available and found SketchUp and Blender as the 2 free ones that were commonly used.  I started using SketchUp due to having a Google account etc.  I quickly found it was very inadequate and too simplistic for modeling game assets.  I quickly moved on to Blender and spent the next 6 months poking around, torturously slow, until I could figure out how to navigate the software and make some simplistic models.  I have learned a lot since then but still, Blender or another program like 3DS is the way to go.

Out of curiosity what did you find about sketchup to be inadequate or simplistic for your needs? Anything you mention is curious to me since there are a million plugins that help to alleviate most problems.

I am a little surprised that you say that actually since Sketchup for me at least is just so fast and easy to make building with, which is most of cities skylines. I can see where its limitations would slow you down on more organic shapes, but the building themselves should be pretty easy to get going.

[Darf 1,439]

4 minutes ago, Irkie500 said:

Hey Darf, would you mind expanding on combining objects? I am familiar with Sketchup's group and component system, as well as layers. Are you saying to say make the base of the building a component, the windows components, etc? In a sense all large structural components their own component? If so that's pretty standard practice in sketchup to maintain clean heiarchy within the model.

 

Just curious as to what your process is, as I browsed a couple of your buildings from the link you posted and they look great! did you photo match those textures from google itself, or are they custom?

Kind of depends on the building, but mostly I first divide a building in cake layers now. First I create the horizontal part of a layer than the vertical part. Each in different layers in SketchUp. This usually results in a couple of 100 objects in 3dsMax, which I combine before I start UVing and texturing. For textures I usually start from photo's than touch up the individual components in Photoshop and try to get the most out of repeating textures, that's why I usually only use x512 texture in height. Another thing I've learned is to make the specular along the diffuse. My speculars usually are quite complicated and I not only use the specular for windows.

Good example is the Brooks building https://sketchfab.com/models/24d473a60f294f4e99cae6aba6da8314 (if you click at the wireframe in Sketchfab you can see the faces go from bottom to top and from left to right, which keeps triscount very low. Here's also an example of the diffuse and specular map. 

[Irkie500 0]

8 minutes ago, Darf said:

Kind of depends on the building, but mostly I first divide a building in cake layers now. First I create the horizontal part of a layer than the vertical part. Each in different layers in SketchUp. This usually results in a couple of 100 objects in 3dsMax, which I combine before I start UVing and texturing. For textures I usually start from photo's than touch up the individual components in Photoshop and try to get the most out of repeating textures, that's why I usually only use x512 texture in height. Another thing I've learned is to make the specular along the diffuse. My speculars usually are quite complicated and I not only use the specular for windows.

Good example is the Brooks building https://sketchfab.com/models/24d473a60f294f4e99cae6aba6da8314 (if you click at the wireframe in Sketchfab you can see the faces go from bottom to top and from left to right, which keeps triscount very low. Here's also an example of the diffuse and specular map. 

Thank you for the explanation, much appreciated!

For the spec map did you give your building a global setting by adjusting brightness and contrast, and then adjust the windows themselves afterwards for higher spec levels?

[Darf 1,439]

1 minute ago, Irkie500 said:

Thank you for the explanation, much appreciated!

For the spec map did you give your building a global setting by adjusting brightness and contrast, and then adjust the windows themselves afterwards for higher spec levels?

Globally, but depends on the material. For the terra cotta for example I used a different process, by creating a lot of artifacts, while sharpening, upping contrast, blur the result and adjust gamma and brightness.

[Bad Peanut 826]

I use sketchup because I'm too lazy to use 3ds Max haha, although I do import into 3ds Max to make sure UV coordinates are correct and to set vertex paint

I learnt 3ds Max in Uni but I was doing architecture and the way we used it wasn't with precise measurements, more general concept visualisation so I prefer sketchup because I can simply draw a line the exact position and length I want - whereas in 3ds max I'd have to learn how to precisely create objects in the right position etc and I'm far too lazy/far too little time to figure it out so it's a smooth process. I can do it with the limited knowledge I have but It's much faster and easier for me to create in sketchup the model and texture maps.

[Feindbold 1,190]

I use mostly sketchup (3ds max for modeling and texturing the LODs though) For my purpose, sketchup is much more pleasant than 3ds max. The 3dsmax UI is just as annyoing, overcomplicated and old, as it was around 2006/2007, when I started modeling. I feel like I allways need "full attention" working with 3ds max, while sketchup is so much easier, faster, relaxing and actually somewhat "fun" to use.

[AmiPolizeiFunk 446]

This has been an informative thread. Thank you guys for summarizing your experiences.

[Irkie500 0]

11 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

I use sketchup because I'm too lazy to use 3ds Max haha, although I do import into 3ds Max to make sure UV coordinates are correct and to set vertex paint

I learnt 3ds Max in Uni but I was doing architecture and the way we used it wasn't with precise measurements, more general concept visualisation so I prefer sketchup because I can simply draw a line the exact position and length I want - whereas in 3ds max I'd have to learn how to precisely create objects in the right position etc and I'm far too lazy/far too little time to figure it out so it's a smooth process. I can do it with the limited knowledge I have but It's much faster and easier for me to create in sketchup the model and texture maps.

Do you do any UV mapping inside sketchup at all? I know there are a few plugins that add that functionality but i wasnt sure how it would export.

[Ploefke 53]

I once followed a small tutorial in Blender, and I'm too afraid to start all over, so I'll keep it to blender. Converting sketchup models is a huge pain in the arse, so I wouldn't recommend that. 

[Judazzz 1,936]

5 hours ago, AmiPolizeiFunk said:

This has been an informative thread. Thank you guys for summarizing your experiences.

Same for me. I haven't touched a modelling program since I did an IT bachelor almost 15 years ago. That program was Maya, and it made me run off in sheer terror almost as soon as I opened it, to focus on interwebz tech instead - to the day I still kind of regret that, not the decision per se (life as a web developer treats me well), but because I can't believe I actually turned down a chance to dip my toes in the 3D modelling world (if only I knew back then I'd get so vested in C:SL one and a half decades later ).
So it's very interesting to see all the pro's and con's of the various programs coming from you pro's! 

[Irkie500 0]

53 minutes ago, Ploefke said:

I once followed a small tutorial in Blender, and I'm too afraid to start all over, so I'll keep it to blender. Converting sketchup models is a huge pain in the arse, so I wouldn't recommend that. 

But from the accounts of a few people mainly Darf it can be done properly and efficiently using sketchup, I just need more details on how.

[Irkie500 0]

Ok so after scouring the web for quite a while for tutorials and walkthroughs I arrive at one more question that I think will finally close the gap of confusion for me. In regards to UV mapping I can get a plugin that can UV map my model inside Sketchup and export the maps, as well as triangulate the model itself. Once I export the UV's what do I actually do with them, I think that's where I get lost. I know they are for texturing and telling the program where the textures are located in coordinate space, however would I be able to use the UV mapping tools to eliminate seams best as I can, and then apply my diffuse texture on my model directly in sketchup? I could then import the model to 3ds Max to create my lightmap and specular maps no?

Sorry for the handholding questions here, I really really want to do this, and frankly I haven't even had a second to sit down yet and even try any of this out, so I am trying to get most of my big questions answered now before I dive in.

Also a huge thank you to everyone who has shared it really has been a huge help, and I hope to show you all some of my assets in the near future!

[Ronyx69 2,413]

It sounds like you are making things unnecessarily complex for yourself.

UVs aren't seperate, they are usually a part of the 3d model, so if you export that, it should conaint UV as well.

If you're going to use 3ds max anyway, then use just that. Exporting and importing from different software can create extra hassle. 

And I don't see what 3ds max specifically has to do with illumination and specular maps, you create those using any photo editing software.

You're not going to figure out everything you want just talking, start making stuff and see what happens.

  Edited February 16, 2017 by Ronyx69  

[Irkie500 0]

59 minutes ago, Ronyx69 said:

It sounds like you are making things unnecessarily complex for yourself.

UVs aren't seperate, they are usually a part of the 3d model, so if you export that, it should conaint UV as well.

If you're going to use 3ds max anyway, then use just that. Exporting and importing from different software can create extra hassle. 

And I don't see what 3ds max specifically has to do with illumination and specular maps, you create those using any photo editing software.

You're not going to figure out everything you want just talking, start making stuff and see what happens.

I perhaps did not word myself that well. I think right now my best option is just going to be to play around with modeling inside sketchup and doing the texture/UV work inside 3ds Max. My main aversion to Max is that it just seems so overly complicated I just don't have the time right now to sit down and really learn the program. I am already proficient with sketchup and how it works, it would actually probably be faster for me to work through the import/export constraints as others have, rather than learn a whole new program.

What I am trying to figure out is the general work process for those who do use sketchup so I can better understand it myself that's all.

I have seen a few youtube videos done a variety of different ways, some more complicated than others. I just want to ensure that I wont have to go back later to fix mistakes that could have been avoided had I know about it.