Urban Vibravant's BAT Lounge

[BartonThinks 3,416]

If I can chip in my own two cents, I would say using the same IIDs is more helpful. I can't imagine a situation where I'd want to use the SD and HD versions at the same time, but I can imagine a few situations where it would be helpful to switch from one to the other.

[Barroco Hispano 26,931]

@Urban Abstraction SimFox once said that we should make the lod 20 centimeters wider to avoid that problem with shadows. I have not tried it myself.

 

[gutterclub 2,729]

Makes you wonder why Maixs created 6 zooms but didn't render their buildings with 6 different zooms. Would love to be able to play Z5 AND Z6. 

[BartonThinks 3,416]

2 hours ago, gutterclub said:

Makes you wonder why Maixs created 6 zooms but didn't render their buildings with 6 different zooms. Would love to be able to play Z5 AND Z6. 

I could be remembering this totally wrong, but I believe I read on SC4D once that the game was originally built to only allow Z5, and then Z6 was tacked on extremely late in the development phase after a request by EA. I think it had something to do with the game being tied to the new release of the Sims, where EA wanted players to be able to track individuals Sims as the walked around the neighborhoods created by players?

Edit: Here's a post from Steam where MGB seems to confirm this. https://steamcommunity.com/app/24780/discussions/0/1693785669854462424/

[Bombardiere 591]

On 3.11.2020 at 10:51 PM, BartonThinks said:

@Bombardiere has a number of BATs with the option of SD or HD models. I've never checked whether he used the same IIDs.

 

I did not use the same ID. Mainly because I was lazy. SD and HD need separate rendering so I did not bother to copy the ID as it would need to be done in Reader or similar. Making and espcially lotting a BAT was overwheling project enough, so by the end I was usually so exhausted that I did not energy for small details.

 

Nice BATs. Your style looks great. After couple years I have recently opened SC4 again. 

Yes, I think too that Z6 was after thought from Maxis. It is shame as there are pros and cons SD vs. HD. I almost daily based swicht my mind which is better

[Urban Vibravant 815]

Ok it looks like we've reached a decision.. all four versions will have the same IID's. Thank you everyone!  @BartonThinks had the best argument for this: 

On 11/3/2020 at 3:07 PM, BartonThinks said:

I would say using the same IIDs is more helpful. I can't imagine a situation where I'd want to use the SD and HD versions at the same time, but I can imagine a few situations where it would be helpful to switch from one to the other.

The shadow problem was resolved. @mattb325 I checked the LODs, they don't go below zero. @Barroco Hispano I gave the legend's advice a try and the 20 centimeter extension seemed to have worked well enough. The back does have a smidge of a shadow but it isn't near as conspicuous as it was, so thank you for that!

While ST was down yesterday, I decided to do a little more touching up on the back window area after noticing the fire escape was about the same color and material as the rusty air duct irl. I think it looks more like the real thing now:

Also I added in a few dangling wires/cables and roughed up a few parts of the brick, overall making it grittier like the real thing.

I've got ONE MORE issue that I think when corrected, players will appreciate.

The patio furniture in front of the Tonic Bar was apart of the building, but after seeing how intrusive it can be on the sidewalk, I decided to make it a prop. Players that want a cleaner looking sidewalk can simply delete the prop in Lot Editor OR just remove it all together in their plugins folder. The problem, albeit small, is pretty annoying:

I casted light on it for night time like it's coming from the restaurant. Having turned 'Light' to 'True' in pim-x/reader, the prop glows at night. (Which you see works when the lot is facing South and East) But for some odd reason, when the Lot is placed facing North or West, the prop doesn't glow.  Oh and forgive me that Tonic's entrance isn't illuminated, forgot to turn those omni's on during night render.   I need better traffic lights..

(Yes this is the same lot just facing different directions)

Thank you guys again for all of your help so far!

[rsc204 21,866]

On 03/11/2020 at 4:49 PM, Urban Abstraction said:

I know that both Maxis and Dark Night models should have the same IID, but what about HD and SD? Should you be able to play with both at the same time or should it be one or the other?

Emphatically I would say yes, because it doesn't have to be more work if you are methodical about the process, in any case it's more work to make multiple lots for each set of models. The biggest hassle comes from the fact that SD or HD models, must export a unique 3DS file containing the LODs for each, which are then imported into SC4BAT to render. Unlike doing this for MN / DN variants, you must change the ID manually, if you want both models to be the same. This isn't too difficult, most models use only the GID as a unique identifier, plus the TGI becomes the filename of the SC4 Model file.

So let's assume both SD and HD LODs have been exported already to SC4 Model files:

• Copy the 8-digits of the GID from the file name of one of them, then open the other in Reader.
• Click on Tools / TGI Editor.
• Paste (CTRL+V), the 8-digit GID you copied previously into the Group field at the top, replacing the # symbols
  If you failed to omit the 0x prefix when copying, this won't work.
  You can of course manually type the ID if you prefer.
• Make sure every entry in the list in this window is selected (highlighted), then click on Apply.
• You can close the TGI editor window.
• Find the XML entry in the Left Pane of Reader and select it.
• In the Right Pane, click Edit to modify the text, so the Resource Key ID (ResKey=) again reflects the new ID. If you have copied it, then it's still in the clipboard, so we can use Paste once more having highlighted the old GID first.
• Now save the XML changes by clicking Apply.
• Proceed to save the file.
• Lastly, edit the filename, so it too has the correct Group ID, you guessed it, highlight the relevant part and Paste once more.

This needn't take more than a minute, even if you've a few to process, it's pretty painless. That you as a modder need not mess around and that model variants remain inter-compatible is just a win-win everywhere. Just imagine someone relotted a building where they used one variant, but didn't realise it wouldn't work for others? Once something get's released, it's very hard to alter the IDs in use, so I think it's something worth championing.

On 04/11/2020 at 3:57 AM, BartonThinks said:

I could be remembering this totally wrong, but I believe I read on SC4D once that the game was originally built to only allow Z5, and then Z6 was tacked on extremely late in the development phase after a request by EA. I think it had something to do with the game being tied to the new release of the Sims, where EA wanted players to be able to track individuals Sims as the walked around the neighborhoods created by players?

Yeah, it's why we have the My Sims and U-Drive It features I believe. But the rationale was quite simple, in z5 sims aren't exactly very detailed, so for zoom6, the game takes the zoom5 textures and upscales them. A quirk of this process means that when the zoom 5 texture is twice it's usual size, instead the game keeps that in zoom6, but then downscales them when viewed in zoom5. That's the trade off with SD/HD, since things seen in zoom6 will look better if HD rendered, but will look worse in zoom5. The current ID scheme format pretty much locks us out from adding a 6th set of textures, which is likely why Maxis opted for the solution they did.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

Building is ready for download

 

[Urban Vibravant 815]

There are still some things I want to correct, but I thought you guys should check it out incase there is anything you would like to see changed. All questions and comments welcome.

I hope I am adding some real pizzazz with this one!

723 7th Avenue, Times Square, NY  (featuring its neighbors on 48th street)

 

Dark Night render

This game is awesome

[brancra 1,180]

6 minutes ago, Urban Abstraction said:

There are still some things I want to correct, but I thought you guys should check it out incase there is anything you would like to see changed. All questions and comments welcome.

I hope I am adding some real pizzazz with this one!

723 7th Avenue, Times Square, NY  (featuring its neighbors on 48th street)

 

Dark Night render

This game is awesome

Would you consider doing a version without the billboards? It's a thoughtfully-designed BAT, I just think a version without the billboards would allow it to be utilized in a wider variety of settings.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

My only suggestion, and this is more of a personal thing, would be to remove the sidewalks from the BAT itself. The lighting effects are really lovely, but having the sidewalks baked into a BAT means that it won't look right in cities where the player is using a sidewalk mod. Personally, I'm much less likely to use a BAT if the sidewalk is baked-in. Though I'm sure it's not as big a deal to some players.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@brancra Actually that isn't a bad idea. Considering it was completed in 1921, I could do a "before the billboards" tribute for its 100th birthday. I'll see what I can do.

@BartonThinks You're in good hands. I do that for the fancy presentation. lol I don't BAT pavers. I agree with you 100% about not doing that.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Wow, awesome work, amazing detail! Any chance of an SD version?

[BartonThinks 3,416]

8 hours ago, Urban Abstraction said:

@brancra Actually that isn't a bad idea. Considering it was completed in 1921, I could do a "before the billboards" tribute for its 100th birthday. I'll see what I can do.

@BartonThinks You're in good hands. I do that for the fancy presentation. lol I don't BAT pavers. I agree with you 100% about not doing that.

Oh, that's awesome. And count me in for having a non-billboard version available!

(Beautiful work, btw -- probably should have mentioned that in the first place!)

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Although you said that there are still some fixes to do, I can easily say that this is one of the best models I've ever seen. Great job!

[IDS2 3,429]

Lovely! There are loads of details in this model that would be easy to gloss over, but the fact that you took the time to include them speaks volumes. Excellent work.

[CT14 2,486]

This looks really great! Thirding the request for a 1921 version, and also looks like the water tower roof might not be textured yet.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@gutterclub Yes, SD and HD and also maxis and dark night versions. With the 1921 option, there will be 8 different choices with this BAT. 

@JP Schriefer Wow, thank you! I really did try with this one.  

@IDS2 Thank you! It's been a challenging but enjoyable project.

@CT14 The top of the water tank is actually pretty white IRL. But for the sake of aesthetics, I'll add some grunge.

I'm willing to do a different look of the buildings on 48th street for the 1921 version. This image is from October 2014. Would you guys like this or something else?

 

  Edited August 19, 2021 by Urban Abstraction  
To include question and picture

[gutterclub 2,729]

I used to play Bass guitar so I'd love to see Rudy's Bass shop 

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

I'm not sure how much this helps since you want to make a 1920s version, but I found some footage from the 40s.

https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~237776~511794:167-West-48-Street?sort=borough%2Cblock%2Clot%2Czip_code

https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~237777~511793:165-West-48-Street?sort=borough%2Cblock%2Clot%2Czip_code

https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~172261~511838:721-723-7-Avenue?sort=borough%2Cblock%2Clot%2Czip_code

[CT14 2,486]

Yes, the 2014 picture shows a version that should fit into any city new or old! As well as the removal of the giant billboards (which are great for modern city version, don't get me wrong). Thanks for being so open to feedback.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@JP Schriefer Woah great find! I think I'm going to go with Rudy's Bass Shop for 48th street. But that METROPOLE adds so much to the art deco style I want to add it in. The question is, would the METROPOLE look right sitting next to Rudy's Bass Shop? Or should I try at recreating 48st from those 40's photos if that means it'll fit better. It couldn't have looked too different from 1921 to 1940 right?

As you all now know, the 1921 version could go in a few directions, so comment what you would like to see in game. 

[CT14 2,486]

4 hours ago, Urban Abstraction said:

It couldn't have looked too different from 1921 to 1940 right?

Correct.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@CT14 The water tank roof should look textured now. Let me know what you think.

I also added in the pizza sign from 2017. 

I've decided that I am going to upload the billboard and 1921 versions as separate uploads. The billboard one will be available this week. The 1921 will be previewed and added in September.

[Hotwheeler 409]

This looks absolutely amazing, can´t wait for it. Didn´t notice it´s a neighbor to one of your previous BATs until i checked out where that BAT needs to go when comparing my SimCity Manhattan Region street grid and its real counterpart in Google Earth.

Say, what lot size will this new one be?

Also, i´m super happy to see someone is taking on the Time Square area again. There are still so many holes...

[CT14 2,486]

Water tank looks great and I think it's a good idea to release the finished version now before fiddling with our endless requests.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

Great work! The texturing on the side, with the grime from the vent, and also the patches of repaired brick, look great and are the kind of texturing detail that I could never bring myself to do. But it's so common in real life and really makes the BAT come alive.

My only real comment is that the windows seem to have a bump map making some really crazy swirly reflections. Also, the dark parts of the windows seem too bright to me. The dark parts of window textures should be about as dark as the shadows (like on the roof), since the walls of the building put the interior in shadow.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@Jasoncw Thank you for your input! I agree the windows could use some touching up.

I want to apologize guys, it won't be ready this week. Other unforeseen things  were found and need to be addressed before it'll be complete. Please forgive my inability to know how long things will take..  

Thank you for your patience.

[Urban Vibravant 815]

@Jasoncw I forgot to mention that some of the real life windows have a dusty haze on them so that's why my windows didn't look as dark. I removed the dusty effect on some of the windows but not all of them. I do agree with having darker shadows, but I was trying to keep it as close to real life as I could. I've included a real life image to show you the dust I'm talking about. Also I think the window bump looks better but I'll let you be the judge. 

[TheTimvh1 939]

Though you only have a small number of buildings available, I gotta say they're definitely some of the most incredible lots I've seen. Your attention to detail is simply amazing. Can't wait to download this one once it's released. In the meantime, please take as much time as you need to complete the current WIP lot. Adding it to my city will definitely be worth the wait. Besides, we definitely need more Times Square style buildings on the STEX anyways😎👍