CT14's Railroad Lots and BAT

[CT14 2,486]

Some more shots of the industrial WIP gone wild in a test city. I made a prop family to jumble the different sizes - next up is roof variations and building material variations.

There's a W2W STR freight station that fits on a 1x1 lot. The train was derailing a little bit as it went through here... custom LOD on the tunnel seems to be working fine, but I wonder if it's derailing because the tunnel isn't tall enough. I did make it regulation Canadian size... the only good reference on clearance I could find. I'll have to double check the scaled height of the portal in gmax.

Here is the station without a train in it.

[rathefalcon 395]

Hey, that STR station is pretty neat! Great work on the rest of the set so far as well, the nightlights especially look great!

[rsc204 21,866]

That's a neat idea with the STR running through a building. I have some concerns though that not all automata will fit through the very tight tunnel. Since the LODs are key here, glitches will occur if the lod of the automata collides with the LOD of the building. Perhaps you might want to increase the size of the tunnel/arch a little to compensate for it?

[CT14 2,486]

@rsc204 For sure, the tunnel size must be related.

@rathefalcon Thanks, this tutorial helped me a lot with settings for glass and lights:

 

I figured out how to apply a color map in the Output rollout of the Bitmap mapping, to darken the final result. This is a mono map with a single point added at .67, .33. I like the red brick. And not having to go to an image editor and change the bitmap, etc.

The glass texture got a few tweaks. I'm really happy with the windows now - the parts all show clearly in game.

Some of the windows got bricked up, and the top story got rotated back properly. Staircases don't usually change corners in real life.

There is an LOD related rendering glitch visible in the right side of the tunnel portal now, but a test showed no more derailments. I'll fine tune LOD again and test some more.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

This screams to be made modular!

[CT14 2,486]

@DavidDHetzel That's the goal, modular W2W filler buildings/props for lotting. All the props are intended to fit seamlessly side by side with each other.

Work on FAR-3 has begun - getting the props into the right place is tricky without using differently sized building models. I may end up creating new models for the FAR pieces with different dimensions...

I prefer to use draggable FAR in favor of these puzzle pieces, but we don't have draggable FAR intersections yet. I may just design the structures around the currently draggable ortho-FAR intersections instead, for now.

There are a few different "unit" sizes for the 1, 2, 3, 4 tile gap intersections... it should be possible to distill these into modules.

[MushyMushy 3,618]

Looks neat! FAR support BAT-wise is a rarity. Are you going to make them for FAR-2, FAR-3, or both? And it might be good to make a transition from the orthogonal modular set to the FAR one, in case one has a situation like the one shown in your first picture.

And a quick correction, there are actually draggable FAR intersections, they just have to be drawn a specific way.

NAM 31 User's Manual (PDF)

The guides for draggable FAR components start on page 45 of the (admittedly outdated) NAM User's Manual and continues for a few pages. Intersections should be somewhere in that section and all of the patterns still work the same way.

[CT14 2,486]

@MushyMushy Thanks for the link to the draggable FAR intersections. I admit I still get a headache when I try to draw those forms. I"ll keep at it and try to figure out which block sizes can be dragged.

Closing in on a theory of FAR fills now. Each type of FAR needs one depth per tile run. In other words, there are 3 different depths possible for FAR-3, and 2 different depths for FAR-2. This means I'll need to make a total of at least 10 models for left and right versions.

If done right, the ortho-FAR models should serve as transitions when plopped next to ortho W2W.

Here's how it looks working out the footprints and their repetition in different block layouts. One fun possibility will be the small FAR-2-Ortho-FAR-3 W2W blocks, as seen in upper left...

[rsc204 21,866]

8 hours ago, CT14 said:

I prefer to use draggable FAR in favor of these puzzle pieces, but we don't have draggable FAR intersections yet.

Yes we do, they can be a bit difficult to drag though. Check out the YouTube link in my sig (Part 2), I've a section on draggable FAR that may be helpful .

[CT14 2,486]

Thanks @rsc204, I guess I just hadn't found them yet. I'll watch the video and see what I can drag.

Here is depth 1 more or less complete for FAR-3; much of the work will transfer over to the second and third depths.

The 4-story versions will have old fashioned roof water towers, with ~7500 gallon redwood tanks. I also whipped up a FAR-3 fire escape, and improved roof access:

These models are pre-133% scaling.

[CT14 2,486]

Update - models with depths 1 and 2 for FAR-3 are shaping up. Experimenting with wood textures - thinking of something more aged rather than this fresh wood look, but it might also be nice for historic recreations to have the shiny version available.

There will not be this many skylights overall in the final tileset

[rathefalcon 395]

Well someone's been hard at work! This fresh wood is a nice intermediate between the tan and the dark brown. I would also opt for a more aged wood look, but I fear it might end up too close in color to the tan stone ones. If you could pull it off though...   But that's just my opinion

I like the fire escapes on the brown brick FAR buildings, they give some nice variation to the facades. But how is anyone supposed to escape if the stairs don't make it all the way to the ground?

[rsc204 21,866]

5 hours ago, rathefalcon said:

But how is anyone supposed to escape if the stairs don't make it all the way to the ground?

Or put another way:

How do we stop any old thief or near-do-well from getting into the building, if the stairs reach the ground permanently?

And within that question is your answer... to my knowledge, there is a mechanism for bridging the gap in the event of an emergency. But I've never lived anywhere I could escape from if the stairs themselves were on fire.

[matias93 7,535]

The last stair is either articulated or telescopic, so it can be opened from above.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Getting down is never the problem, just let gravity do its thing... But seriously, I guess once you're on the lowest platform, you can unlock a ladder that will slide down and allow people to reach street level safely. [EDIT: matias93 beat me to it]

I live in a house with such a fire ladder, but now that I think about it I realise that I'll have to cross the - wooden - staircase to reach the fire ladder.

Back to topic - I like the approach you're taking here. I always like modular stuff. The BATs themselves are looking pretty good as well. However, put together as in the example screenshot, the composition of individual cubes is pretty obvious and makes the result look a bit like "similar BATs happened to grow next to another" instead of a coherent facility. How to solve this, though? I was wondering whether you could add a parapet wall/cornice only to the respective front face(s) of the building so that the other seams would be less obvious.

Are you planning to make these growable, or do you intend to piece together factory complexes with these BATs as props and only make the assembled complex growable? (I guess the diagonal and FA versions will be ploppable anyway.)

[CT14 2,486]

Ring the alarm! Fire escape nerdery has officially broken out.

In addition to correcting the omission so adroitly pointed out by @rathefalcon, I've fixed a couple of other errors: there are always hand railings on the ladder bits, and the ladders themselves were off center to the openings in the platforms. The mesh for the horizontal railings was also so small it was hard to see in the final render; it's been doubled in diameter, with the result that it's visible.

I went with the @matias93 version, a spring loaded ladder at the bottom.

@T Wrecks the plan is to do both growables and plops, and use four stories of height variation and a few more model tweaks to make things more seamless. For example, the roof tar paper can go nearly to the outer edge of the cornice, as in prototypes.

And of course this will be accomplished through the mini-game of arranging prop families by building footprint, so you can gamble for your favorite facing material or height as you fill your FA zones...

[CT14 2,486]

FA-3 depth 3 is roughed out. Tar paper on roof now has better coverage around the roof edges, and is sun bleached a bit more; this is the lighter side of the range of variation that seems to look good for tar paper. Probably time to lighten the black painted roof junk as well:

There are a few minor model issues to work out visible in the above pictures, and at least three more models to create: FA-2 D1, FA-2 D2, Diagonal.

[rsc204 21,866]

Just wanted to say this is some fantastic stuff. Looks like you've single-handedly doubled the number of FAR buildings here. A lot of us are desperate for FAR content. since you can't break the grid with FA networks alone. This is going to be such a must have when you get round to releasing them. 

[CT14 2,486]

@rsc204 thanks for the kind words!

Here's a view of the left diagonal model. I've mirrored it, and will also be making a triangular version (same footprint as the Gridbusters piece here.) Still to come are mirrored FA-3, FA-2, height and texture variations, and lot modding.

Side note on triangular blocks: real life buildings that end at sharp angles usually have a fifth wall at the point, just wide enough for a window to cap the angle. The models above have somewhat unrealistically sharp angles at the narrow end, with windows on each side quite close to each other from an interior perspective. This is to allow more seamless filling when continuing along the diagonal. Ideally, I'll be able to render versions specifically for triangular ends, with the more realistic/gentle capping of the angle.

[rsc204 21,866]

I see for now you are using buildings that cover the entire space for Diag/FAR. Most similar content, uses an overhanging base that's part of the model. This is hateful to anyone that's spent 2 years removing the Maxis sidewalks from their game (i.e. ME! ).

Although you've yet to do this, I will happily make side-walk compatible S3D fillers for you. These can overhang and keep transparency without the water bug, whilst matching the sidewalk in use. Similar to Xannepann's Quays de Seine Seawalls. I already have a number of such props, but they aren't hugely difficult to make, in fact at some point I planned to get to FAR ones anyhow. So if you come across a need for these, let me know if I can be of assistance. But ideally, using them allows your models to be slightly further from networks without leaving a visual gap.

[Silur 3,308]

Hi, CT14 -  excellent and very realistic work. Good luck with this   May be delete some blue objects from a roof ? I think this is destroy all BATs. Thank You.

 

[CT14 2,486]

@rsc204 I had to read that about six times and a bunch of other pages, but think I understand. Sometimes there is wealth grass showing between the props and the FA network. I'll circle back to this after the basic models are done.

@Silur Glad you like it, the skylights are really for the 1 and 2 story versions of some BATs to give light in the understory of the urban jungle. I'll be removing them from the 3 and 4 story versions, generally. Taller buildings tend to get enough light from the windows. Also, I want it to be less blue too - a simple tweak in the material. Here's the latest ortho versions to illustrate.

Here is another experiment with stations - there should be at least about 2 tiles of platform length to match prototypes like Manhattan High Line industries, but I wanted to try with 1 tile to get it working.

Paths aren't showing up with drawpaths and automata fades on entering the lot. Not sure what's up yet. I copied the path file from the "straight over empty ground" Viaduct Rail puzzle piece. The tunnel will need to be taller. The square shaped opening seems protoypical.

[rsc204 21,866]

4 hours ago, CT14 said:

I had to read that about six times and a bunch of other pages, but think I understand.

I think you've got the idea, sorry, I should have linked to these:

About two posts down from the screenshot, you can download the preview version. These props can be used in the LE, but they don't look right until you see them in-game.

[rathefalcon 395]

Ahh, another rail-through-building station! Neat stuff

[CT14 2,486]

Pathing and historical prototypes

I've worked out the elevated heavy rail lot's pathing issues and it is quite a nice feeling to see the props collide with the tunnel. Strangely, the trains don't derail at all. I'll increase the tunnel height to clear the double stacks. Using "Modern" clearances as opposed to "Classic" or "Old Time", in model railroader terms.

I would never have figured any of this out without the following resources:

• ST thread for the introduction to concepts:

• SC4D wiki for important implementation details:

http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=SC4Path_Format

• @MandelSoft's tutorial section on SC4Paths:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11023.msg329941#msg329941

• SimsWiki on LotConfigPropertyLotObject syntax:

http://simswiki.info/wiki.php?title=LotConfigPropertyLotObject

I also want to share this amazing prototype, the St Johns Park Terminal to Manhattan's High Line. This is an elevated freight rail station several NY city blocks long. The air rights on the property are currently bid up to $50 billion so there is little chance it will be preserved. It's on my list to BAT, though.

My direct inspiration for the transit lot is industries like Merchants Refrigeration Company:

This packing company on 14th St. Notice the line enters each building around the third floor:

This unidentified building on the High Line:

And especially the Nabisco plant:

Bonus historical shots from Boweryboys of completely bonkers street running on 10th Avenue: the "Avenue of Death", no kidding. Notice how many horses are still on the road. Most commercial traffic had motorized here by the end of World War I.

And very VERY early elevated rail:

Final style note for NYC-style viaduct rail architecture: the High Line was constructed during the Art Deco period, but it modified many older buildings.

[rsc204 21,866]

On 27/10/2016 at 3:37 AM, CT14 said:

I've worked out the elevated heavy rail lot's pathing issues and it is quite a nice feeling to see the props collide with the tunnel.

Not sure how you did it, but you should be aware, it's not always the best idea to make/use custom paths. For example, for a path that emulates the Ortho Rail Viaduct, you should re-use the existing path from the NAM. Firstly because why not re-use what's availilbe, but secondly, because the NAM path links in such a way that LHD/RHD support is handled automatically. Whereas with a custom path, in order to support both, you need to make two paths and switch between one or the other.

In this case the path ID you are looking for should be 0x53263100. I assume you've worked out how to add a custom path to a TE tile using SC4 Tools here? You might need to rotate the path or otherwise mess with it, let me know if you need any help there.

[CT14 2,486]

@rsc204 Hey, that's great to hear. I did use the path from that ID in the NetworkAddonMod_RailViaducts.dat file (just dived back in to make sure). I appreciate the depth of detail you're providing here.

The next task for that station will be to get it working with multiple tiles, as I want the ploppable to be 2 tiles long.

I am wondering if a stop point would add to realism, since it is a freight station. I don't usually see this in lots in game but feel it would be nice to have the train automata pause on screen for a while.

[rsc204 21,866]

8 hours ago, CT14 said:

I am wondering if a stop point would add to realism, since it is a freight station. I don't usually see this in lots in game but feel it would be nice to have the train automata pause on screen for a while.

Adding such things to TE lots is a nightmare, I've spent so many hours on this one, without any success, I wouldn't recommend it. If a lot is a station, automata will stop under certain circumstances, although I can only recall this behaviour on Passenger Stations. It's not controlled by a stop point either, it's based on where the lot ends in relation to the direction of travel. You really don't have much control over it.

Multiple Tiles shouldn't prove particularly hard, if you managed to add a custom path to a TE lot, you are already in an exclusive club. Such advanced TE modding is not something that many people seem to understand, so kudos to you for getting this far without needing assistance.

[CT14 2,486]

Here is a new BAT I've been creating on the side: the Troy Gas Works Gasholder Building.

The bricks are quite a bit bright compared to high quality tilesets from GC/Jestarr/C.P. I may darken them some along with the ashlar masonry courses, especially since this is a Dirty/Coal setting. I also want to experiment with a Wide Radius Curve filling lot. It looks like it will go into the pocket of a wide street curve nicely.

Challenges included:

• Getting scale measurements from elevation drawings
• Learning the Array tool in a radial setting
• Getting better with UVW mapping (default values for map sizes are usually not good)
• Scaling a lot of vertices for the roof pitch curve
• Modeling windows in Gmax (no prefab 3dsMax windows as in the elevator model).
• Scaling the weathervane: one of those details that looks great, but just doesn't show with fully realistic scaling. This part had to be at least 200% of prototype dimension to be visible in final render.

Here's my marked up copy of the elevation:

The billboard on the lot is meant to evoke scenes like this one from 1938 NYC:

But in testing, the billboard puts too much restriction on which way the lot faces - a separate billboard lot makes more sense.

Now, back to modular stuff...

[CT14 2,486]

I did one more lot with the gasholder building... a medium sized gasworks.

The lot uses props by @jestarr, @gascooker, @Glenni, and @Simmer2. I'd like to do a smaller gasworks without rails, and a larger one with more retorts and a proper coal washer...

Here is the annotated version: