Discussion about Always-On Connection to Origin

[Daytripper 41]

The part you highlighted in bold isn't much different then the information any website collects when you visit it.

 

As far as I'm aware, information about software installed on my computer and my software usage is not uploaded by websites simply by visiting them.

 

Admittedly, I am not a computer expert.  If one who is would post a link to a reputable source which states otherwise, I would be very interested to read it.

[AnathemaDevice 35]

The part you highlighted in bold isn't much different then the information any website collects when you visit it.

 

As far as I'm aware, information about software installed on my computer and my software usage is not uploaded by websites simply by visiting them.

 

Admittedly, I am not a computer expert.  If one who is would post a link to a reputable source which states otherwise, I would be very interested to read it.

 

I run a few websites and none of them get any information from visitors' computers. The only things registered are the public IP address (the one assigned by your ISP) and the browser user agent, which usually includes the OS and which browser it is and the UA can be can be changed to anything you like. Nothing is uploaded unless the visitor chooses to upload it. Bad stuff is possible with scripts but that's what your anti-virus, anti-malware and firewall software is for. Anything that tries to snoop around my computer against my wishes from outside is malware as far as I'm concerned.

[Sap59 3]

Just curious.. Has anything ever been announced by EA or Maxis about any extra costs outside the purchase of the game itself to play multiplayer online ?

[nhgriffith 179]

Just curious.. Has anything ever been announced by EA or Maxis about any extra costs outside the purchase of the game itself to play multiplayer online ?

Once you buy the full version of the game, the only extra costs are for optional DLC, expansions, etc. No mandatory costs.

[nhgriffith 179]

I did want to point something out to people regarding the speed requirement for SimCity 2013.

The officially listed requirement is 256 kbps download speed (and 64kbps upload speed).

I made an off-hand comment in some other thread discussing the "high speed" requirement. Let's be clear. 256kbps is web-browsing speed.

Any time you visit Google.com, you just download 101 kb.

Any time you visit https://community.simtropolis.com/forum/83-simcity-2013-general-discussion/ you're downloading about 147 kb.

Both of these websites are extremely minimal with primarily text, very little in the way of images.

Try Yahoo.com. That's 308 kb.

Now granted, you don't have to load Yahoo's page in under a second, so you're fine with slower speeds. But I'm just putting the download speed into perspective. SimCity uses less bandwidth then watching a video on YouTube.

[cirugo 1,889]

."SimCity uses less bandwidth then watching a video on YouTube."

 

 

One more reason not to believe their "official" reasons for requiring an internet connection to play the game.

[Towel 76]

."SimCity uses less bandwidth then watching a video on YouTube."

 

 

One more reason not to believe their "official" reasons for requiring an internet connection to play the game.

 

You do realise the game is asynchronus? As in not real-time ... They deliver small packets of information to your game every few minutes which allow the cities, etc, to be updated in your region. Your game is also saved regularly to their "cloud" ... This means the size of the download/upload is tiny!

 

So no, it doesn't give you any reason to doubt their "official" reasons for requiring an internet connection... It means they've done a lot of work to minimise its impact and this probably suggests the launch will be much better than people think it will be!

[cirugo 1,889]

."SimCity uses less bandwidth then watching a video on YouTube."

 

 

One more reason not to believe their "official" reasons for requiring an internet connection to play the game.

 

You do realise the game is asynchronus? As in not real-time ... They deliver small packets of information to your game every few minutes which allow the cities, etc, to be updated in your region. Your game is also saved regularly to their "cloud" ... This means the size of the download/upload is tiny!

 

So no, it doesn't give you any reason to doubt their "official" reasons for requiring an internet connection... It means they've done a lot of work to minimise its impact and this probably suggests the launch will be much better than people think it will be!

What you just said indicates that they realize a required internet connection is a liability and not a plus.  Why the necessity if the only work being done on the server is calculating leaderboards and regional resource trading?  They're trying to sell the game now to doubters by saying "but you can claim your own region and not have to interact with anyone"...which completely undercuts their arguments for requiring the internet connection in the first place. 

I don't want to save to the "cloud".  I want to save to my own hard drive.

[Towel 76]

@cirugo

 

Then don't buy the game.

 

Every online multiplayer game on the planet does everything it can to minimise the net traffic to make the game as smooth as possible! So I have no idea why SimCity being so efficient with its net use is such an issue.

[nhgriffith 179]

The fact that is uses less bandwidth then watching YouTube videos doesn't mean they could do without the Internet connection.

Do you know anything about networking or programming?

I don't know if you've heard of the game RuneScape or not, it's been around forever. Ten years ago, I played that game on 56k dial up. That means, my maximum download speed is 56kbps. That's a fifth of what SimCity requires. And again, FAR less bandwidth then watching streaming video (or audio, for that matter). Yet RuneScape is impossible to be played offline. It's an online game.

Aside from reading/writing, there's no correlation between the size of data your processing and the speed at which it actually gets processed at. The speed you process it at depends entirely on what kind of processes are being done to the data.

[Sap59 3]

Just curious.. Has anything ever been announced by EA or Maxis about any extra costs outside the purchase of the game itself to play multiplayer online ?

Once you buy the full version of the game, the only extra costs are for optional DLC, expansions, etc. No mandatory costs.

Thank you for responding nhgriffith, That was the deal breaker for me to whether I was going to purchase it or not, I still want to wait until I hear some of the reviews after the games release but at least I'm about 90% positive that I will be buying it.

[cirugo 1,889]

@cirugo

 

Then don't buy the game.

 

Every online multiplayer game on the planet does everything it can to minimise the net traffic to make the game as smooth as possible! So I have no idea why SimCity being so efficient with its net use is such an issue.

I've made it quite clear that I won't be buying the game...not just because of this issue.  And anyone else who isn't happy about it shouldn't buy it either if they don't want the gaming industry to continue to require internet connections for games that shouldn't need them.

[ShadeSigma 16]

I play Civilization V--I bought it from stores. It requires Steam to play. An Internet connection. But with SimCity 2013 it's like they are totally forcing online play. What was the harm in an Offline Mode? Simcity was about planning and building you OWN city. Not planning and building to adhere to somebody else's region/city. The gameplay is all online-based. And when people (who don't know any better) buy this game they are going to see what they got themselves into.

 

What was wrong with just having multiplayer optional? What was the harm in that? We already need the Internet and Origin just to play our own game, but yet, even if we choose their "single-player" mode, we'll still be limited and stagnant.

 

I really had hopes for this game but they really bombed it. 

 

The CTD and troublesome commute times in SC4 was dark times, but now, those gritty times are starting to look even brighter...

[cirugo 1,889]

I play Civilization V--I bought it from stores. It requires Steam to play. An Internet connection. But with SimCity 2013 it's like they are totally forcing online play. What was the harm in an Offline Mode? Simcity was about planning and building you OWN city. Not planning and building to adhere to somebody else's region/city. The gameplay is all online-based. And when people (who don't know any better) buy this game they are going to see what they got themselves into.

 

What was wrong with just having multiplayer optional? What was the harm in that? We already need the Internet and Origin just to play our own game, but yet, even if we choose their "single-player" mode, we'll still be limited and stagnant.

 

I really had hopes for this game but they really bombed it. 

 

The CTD and troublesome commute times in SC4 was dark times, but now, those gritty times are starting to look even brighter...

You can play games on Steam in offline mode.  Although I wasn't happy when I bought Civilization 5 at a store and installed it to find out that the disc was nothing other than a gateway to Steam.

[nhgriffith 179]

You're not forced into multiplayer. Starting a private region and not inviting anyone is the same as playing a sc4 region.

[Jim14409 448]

You can play games on Steam in offline mode.  Although I wasn't happy when I bought Civilization 5 at a store and installed it to find out that the disc was nothing other than a gateway to Steam.

That is why I have still not bought Civ5 and a few other games that I would have ordinarily been eager to buy.

[Jim14409 448]

Many of us are not happy, and while players may not be "forced into multiplayer" there are those of us who will not give EA/Maxis the opportunity to "force" us into online play or compromising what we think to be right and fair for those who spend their money.

 

Concerning internet speed that is of little concern when many are limited daily or monthly in how much data they can download. That however is NOT the point. The point is the unnecessary requirements and restrictions EA/Maxis have forced on those who chose to purchase their games. Thankfully there are many of us who can and will stand our ground and hold tight our wallet on this and similar.

 

Apologies for the double post.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

I play Civilization V--I bought it from stores. It requires Steam to play. An Internet connection. But with SimCity 2013 it's like they are totally forcing online play. What was the harm in an Offline Mode? Simcity was about planning and building you OWN city. Not planning and building to adhere to somebody else's region/city. The gameplay is all online-based. And when people (who don't know any better) buy this game they are going to see what they got themselves into.

 

What was wrong with just having multiplayer optional? What was the harm in that? We already need the Internet and Origin just to play our own game, but yet, even if we choose their "single-player" mode, we'll still be limited and stagnant.

 

I really had hopes for this game but they really bombed it. 

 

The CTD and troublesome commute times in SC4 was dark times, but now, those gritty times are starting to look even brighter...

You can play games on Steam in offline mode.  Although I wasn't happy when I bought Civilization 5 at a store and installed it to find out that the disc was nothing other than a gateway to Steam.

Cirugo, did you know that the only legal non-Steam version of Civ V is from the Mac App Store?  I have a MacBook Pro with Retina Display, which would allow me to play Civ V legally without Steam, even with a discount from the App Store.  For the upcoming SimCity, there is no legal non-Origin version.

 

Unfortunately, Macs do not come cheap (even with an education discount) and I had a technology bursary allowing me to buy it.

[Hoipus 292]

A thought just occurred to me. This game (and other EA titles) are more likely to have their online services shut down the more people play their games online. According to this page, EA will shut down the online services of any online game that has "fewer than 1% of all peak online players across all EA titles". With the amount of people playing the online component of games published by EA, that 1% is a lot of people. This 1% is likely to increase as EA releases more and more games without a traditional offline singleplayer component.

 

I sure do hope they implement some sort of offline component, or change their policies at some point, because I can see a lot of people getting angry in the future.

[Lakenstaken 34]

The story will probably repeat itself like with almost any other constant-online games: Private servers.

 

Or even just a cracked game for offline singleplayer, I don't really know how that works.

[Evil_One 119]

The story will probably repeat itself like with almost any other constant-online games: Private servers.

 

Or even just a cracked game for offline singleplayer, I don't really know how that works.

 

From what I can understand of how they're doing the whole server requirement, it shouldn't even be that difficult... The information transmitted is simply simulation data (that could easily be handled offline anyway).

 

All they'd need to do is instead of actually simulating the cities (as EAxis claims to), they just need to analyse the individual cities quantity of resources (including population), their processing (change) and depletion rate then simulate that and tranfer it to the player.

[Jim14409 448]

Jim, calm down. First, taking your laptop camping defeats the purpose of camping.

Second, and more importantly, the person I was replying to made a comment of forced multiplayer. He said he was fine with forced origin and forced online, but it was the forced multiplayer that irked him the most. I was clarifying to him that he can play in a private region by himself.

For once I agree that camping is no place for a laptop but there are many who would disagree and I respect their right to do whatever is legal while camping. There is also a matter of why or what kind of camping someone may be doing. Some may be in their hunting cabin or an RV, some may be roughing it in a tent. Some may be there to get closer to nature and some may be there just to escape the ordinary bustle of their daily life and want a total escape.

 

I think most know they can play in a private region, but with being always online nothing is ever really private is it? As for calming down thanks for the concern but I don't get excited over stuff that doesn't matter in the long run. I just passionately state my piece.

I don't understand your seemingly need to convert everyone who is opposed to SC2013. Providing facts is one thing and allowing free opinion flow is good, but don't you think calming down and letting people have their opinion would be best without trying to bash them in the head? Perhaps EA/Maxis pays on commission... just a thought.

[nhgriffith 179]

I play Civilization V--I bought it from stores. It requires Steam to play. An Internet connection. But with SimCity 2013 it's like they are totally forcing online play. What was the harm in an Offline Mode? Simcity was about planning and building you OWN city. Not planning and building to adhere to somebody else's region/city. The gameplay is all online-based. And when people (who don't know any better) buy this game they are going to see what they got themselves into.

 

What was wrong with just having multiplayer optional? What was the harm in that? We already need the Internet and Origin just to play our own game, but yet, even if we choose their "single-player" mode, we'll still be limited and stagnant.

 

I really had hopes for this game but they really bombed it. 

 

The CTD and troublesome commute times in SC4 was dark times, but now, those gritty times are starting to look even brighter...

Jim, clearly there are people that don't understand that SimCity (2013) can be played single player. And if you want to get on to me for posting about something that everyone already knows about, then I think you oughta check yourself. We're all already aware of the pitfalls of a game that requires a constant online connection.

I'm not going to not buy a game just because it requires an Internet connection. Since the 90s, I've crawled out of the cave. I have Internet. And I may not be able to take the game camping or on a train ride, I can play it at very location I'd realistically be interested in playing the game at... and several locations I wouldn't realistically be interested in playing it at.

[CaptCity 4,915]

As release day approaches and specific questions start to arise, we hope Simtropolis will be a place where players can get answers. Members who have been active in the forums know that there are players who like the game and players who don't. They know the issues involved on both sides, and they should know, by now, that there are just some things that some consider "deal breakers" and no amount of back-and-forth debate is going to change anything. It is not necessary to respond to every post in some attempt to convince someone to change his or her mind. This has and will only serve to fill the topics with repetitive comments and ignore posters who might have questions. Sometimes there comes a point where we just have to agree to disagree and let it go. Thanks.

[ShadeSigma 16]

All games are going to require online connection to prevent piracy. I understand. I just don't see why you just can't require online connection just for installation. But that's a different story. I learned the hard way when I bought Civilization V.

 

I'm not trying to convince no one of anything. But it is evident that the game is heavily based on Internet play. If you are able to play Simcity 2013 as if you were playing Simcity 4 by yourself, then I wouldn't have much problem. You can't even save your own game to your HDD. I never heard of such a thing except if you were playing a browser-based game. I don't know. I'm not a fanboy of any sort--I think Simcity has some good qualities. But you have limited control over what you can do in the game. They put in a sandbox mode. But what's the point if you have to save it to their "cloud". And what about the resources feature? If you're playing single-player, you run out of resources, will you have to fetch for them online to another player?

[ShadeSigma 16]

Jim, calm down. First, taking your laptop camping defeats the purpose of camping.

Second, and more importantly, the person I was replying to made a comment of forced multiplayer. He said he was fine with forced origin and forced online, but it was the forced multiplayer that irked him the most. I was clarifying to him that he can play in a private region by himself.

 

I've just been getting mixed responses from other people. That's why I was going to wait a few days before the game came out. But if you make your private region, can you save to your own HDD, and will you have to go online to depend on resources and such? Is the private play going to be limited in any shape or form? 

[nhgriffith 179]

You do have to be online to play. Period.

The regional level simulation is done on the servers.

[robangus 5]

Im not at all bothered by this, if it works that is. Only issues for me are A. EA Servers going down/maintanance or B. EA closing the servers down for good but I dont see that happening for a long time to be honest.

 

Anyone know roughly how much data will be sent across though?

 

 

You can play games on Steam in offline mode.  Although I wasn't happy when I bought Civilization 5 at a store and installed it to find out that the disc was nothing other than a gateway to Steam.

That is why I have still not bought Civ5 and a few other games that I would have ordinarily been eager to buy.

 

I preferred CIV4 over 5 anyway.

[nhgriffith 179]

Minimum system requirements for SimCity (2013): 256kbps down, 64kbps up. Far less than what it takes to watch any streaming video.

And for reference... Yahoo's homepage is a 308kb download when you visit it.

[robangus 5]

Minimum system requirements for SimCity (2013): 256kbps down, 64kbps up. Far less than what it takes to watch any streaming video.

And for reference... Yahoo's homepage is a 308kb download when you visit it.

Yeah more meant the data size rather than speed, but that is handy to know, should be more than fine on that front. My connection is... tempremental... where i live and does go down so i was hoping id be able to use my phone as a modem when it does go down. Rather not go over my data plan though lol