Discussion about Always-On Connection to Origin

[iEatRazorz 24]

You can pre order a physical copy of the game on a number of websites at the moment.

Also, I don't really understand what you're trying to say...I understand that english must not be your first language though.

What he is saying, physical media or not, Origin will still be installed and required to play. Same as with Steam distributed games on CD. I own Postal3, Fallout:New Vegas, and Dead Island on CD. They all required me to install and set up an account with Steam. I bought Battlefield3 on CD and it forced me to install and setup an Origin account. I installed Assassins Creed 2 from CD, it forced me to setup an UPlay account. Anno 2070 or whatever it is called, bought through Steam, forced me into UPlay as well. Both Airline Tycoon2 (on CD) and Tropico 4(on CD) required an Kalypso Media Launcher account. At this rate my computer will be consumed by these "Game" (read DRM/Store) portals. I miss the days of Gamespy Arcade, IGN was like nope and turn that whole network and portal concept into crap.

I remember when an install was just an install. Then it started asking for serials. Then it wanted you register for customer support. Then linking your game serial to an account was optional (thanks a lot EA) Then Direct2Drive happened, That led to Steam. Then the DLC kicked in with Neverwinter Nights being one of the first(thanks a lot Bioware) At that point I switched to consoles. Great, they have HDDs now and internet connections. Patches (read unfinished games) and mostly DLC inbound. I caught wind of the no disc drive and war against used games, built a nasty PC.

No way around it, SimCity will force you to install and have an Origin account. It's what EA wants so they will get it. I don't see a mass boycott happening to stop it. This newer generation of gamers are too accepting of digital distribution. I've never believed it to be a good idea, or beneficial to the consumer.

When Bioware did the DLC for Neverwinter and D2D led to Steam I had the foresight to see where it was heading. Here we are, the consumers, steadily getting railed by corporations with an uneasy smile on our collective faces.

I think that pretty much sums up where I stand on this entire issue.

  Edited April 23, 2012 by Craig-Abcvs  
Removed masked swearing

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I play Anno 2070. I have a Uplay account. I have nothing against setting up these accounts (though I can stop the processes) but I do not want to pay extra for them.

[NCGAIO 562]

You can pre order a physical copy of the game on a number of websites at the moment.

Also, I don't really understand what you're trying to say...I understand that english must not be your first language though.

I do not see as having the physical copy of the game can make a difference ... unless of course it is not necessary to access the ORIGIN for validation!

But I would like to see some of these links if you can put them!

Note: English is not really my first language. Does it matter?

[BurroDiablo 222]

You can pre order a physical copy of the game on a number of websites at the moment.

Also, I don't really understand what you're trying to say...I understand that english must not be your first language though.

What he is saying, physical media or not, Origin will still be installed and required to play. Same as with Steam distributed games on CD. I own Postal3, Fallout:New Vegas, and Dead Island on CD. They all required me to install and set up an account with Steam. I bought Battlefield3 on CD and it forced me to install and setup an Origin account. I installed Assassins Creed 2 from CD, it forced me to setup an UPlay account. Anno 2070 or whatever f*** it is called, bought through Steam, forced me into UPlay as well. Both Airline Tycoon2 (on CD) and Tropico 4(on CD) required an Kalypso Media Launcher account. At this rate my computer will be consumed by these "Game" (read DRM/Store) portals. I miss the days of Gamespy Arcade, IGN was like nope and turn that whole network and portal concept into crap.

I remember when an install was just an install. Then it started asking for serials. Then it wanted you register for customer support. Then linking your game serial to an account was optional (thanks a lot EA) Then Direct2Drive happened, That led to Steam. Then the DLC kicked in with Neverwinter Nights being one of the first(thanks a lot Bioware) At that point I switched to consoles. Great, they have HDDs now and internet connections. Patches (read unfinished games) and mostly DLC inbound. I caught wind of the no disc drive and war against used games, built a nasty PC.

No way around it, SimCity will force you to install and have an Origin account. It's what EA wants so they will get it. I don't see a mass boycott happening to stop it. This newer generation of gamers are too accepting of digital distribution. I've never believed it to be a good idea, or beneficial to the consumer.

When Bioware did the DLC for Neverwinter and D2D led to Steam I had the foresight to see where it was heading. Here we are, the consumers, steadily getting railed by corporations with an uneasy smile on our collective faces.

I think that pretty much sums up where I stand on this entire issue.

It's ironic really because it does nothing to solve piracy, its just a punch in the face to those who actually buy games legally.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by BurroDiablo  

[Moskva 75]

Let's face it people: human nature grows malicious as the power grows. Most of people will become evil as they see they can gather power. I noted this also on myself, sometimes. EA is following human nature: trying to take every coin out of your portfolio. I personally won't allow them to take away my money, for what i know sharing game copies is not illegal *yet* in a lot of countries here in Europe. Because the price is ridicolous, because EA is everything BUT trustable, because this game doesn't deserve to be preordered (in my opinion).

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The clear choice is between one's desire for privacy and one's wish to play this game. It appears you can't have both. I have tried to stay out of the 'wired' world now since the beginning, and I still pretty much manage to do that except where it is to my advantage.

I see no advantage in giving up computer cycles to a program from which I derive no benefit, namely the Origin client program, which is just a snooper that reports on your machine and contents. As I have said before, it is none of their damned business what I do or have on my machine. If they want that information, let them ask politely, and once.

[NCGAIO 562]

The clear choice is between one's desire for privacy and one's wish to play this game. It appears you can't have both.

Very well summed friend ... I'd go a little further only to say that not only seems but is the question.

The whole controversy about the absurdity of accepting service of Origin under the current EULA is not new as can be seen here

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-origin-eula-sparks-privacy-concerns-6330914

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112559-Internet-Explodes-Over-Origins-Invasion-of-Privacy

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/0,1518,794600,00.html

This new discussion here is due to the fact that the way to access the new SC. That is why I think before someone come to the defense of this system, everyone should be informed well what it is, because tomorrow may be part of those who claim their rights.

I doubt if it were explained in detail at the time of booking or purchase of service, sales results were the same, maybe That is why it is not necessary to accept the eula to buy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_ (content_delivery)

Everyone should read very carefully all the above Wiki article, it speaks for itself but if not enough can read more ...

http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/battlefield-3/artikel/analyse_zur_eula_von_ea_origin,45612,2561554.html

[iEatRazorz 24]

I don't know how many people will read the wikki, I think it is also important to know you cannot sue them if you are signed up to any of their services.

B. Binding Arbitration. If you and EA are unable to resolve a Dispute through informal negotiations within 30 days after receipt of the Notice of Dispute, either you or EA may elect to have the Dispute finally and exclusively resolved by binding arbitration. Any election to arbitrate by one party shall be final and binding on the other. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY THIS PROVISION, YOU AND EA ARE FOREGOING THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL. The arbitration shall be commenced and conducted under the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) and, where appropriate, the AAA’s Supplementary Procedures for Consumer Related Disputes (AAA Consumer Rules), both of which are available at the AAA website www.adr.org. Your arbitration fees and your share of arbitrator compensation shall be governed by the AAA Rules and, where appropriate, limited by the AAA Consumer Rules. If such costs are determined by the arbitrator to be excessive, or if you send EA a notice to the Notice of Dispute address above indicating that you are unable to pay the fees required to initiate an arbitration, then EA will promptly pay all arbitration fees and expenses. The arbitration may be conducted in person, through the submission of documents, by phone or online. The arbitrator will make a decision in writing, and shall provide a statement of reasons if requested by either party. The arbitrator must follow applicable law, and any award may be challenged if the arbitrator fails to do so. You and EA may litigate in court to compel arbitration, to stay proceeding pending arbitration, or to confirm, modify, vacate or enter judgment on the award entered by the arbitrator.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by iEatRazorz  

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I remember playing Monopoly by JAMDAT on my RZR years ago. Playfish has a Seattle office and I play(ed) some of their games. Zynga and EA have a virtual Biopoly on facebook games. I like Uplay by Ubisoft so I hope Origin does not charge a subscription.

  Edited April 21, 2012 by OcramSeattle  

[jacksunny 741]

Zynga is like the EA of Facebook, if not worse. They are so greedy it is unbelievable.

[schm0 27]

Thought I'd drop in to post a relevant article and stop to chat a bit: http://www.1up.com/n...rement-worth-it

Every time I scour the gaming sites and see another article about SimCity, I sit down to read it. I'm excited about this game. Thinking about the possibilities of this game gets my mind working in ways that other games just can't do. I've watched all the vids on the blog. I'm interested in finding out more about where this game is going. Except for this one thing.

I'm just not buying the online argument. Online for online play, offline for offline play. Period. I just don't understand why the "external" stimuli needed to interact with the city can't be simulated for single-player. It doesn't make sense to me. Can't I use the last downloaded cache of data to represent the global price of coal or whatever else my city needs to grab from the "outside"?

Even more disturbing, and not really discussed here, is the potential restriction this places on future modders. SC4 is still going strong after all these years because modders were able to hack the hell out of the guts of that game. Maxis gave us tools that helped provide us with that insight. We were able to override core game files, put in something new, and make the game perform and behave fundamentally different than it was originally designed to do. Sure, there were things we couldn't touch. But modding game us the ability to play SimCity Mars, create amazing road networks with the NAM, play with RULs and BATs and Lots and props.

But will we be given the same freedom in this new online age? Similar tools that allow nearly unlimited creativity? Or will our attempts at peeking under the hood result in having us banned from accessing the game we purchased? Will we be limited to creating content that can only be viewed in a specific online storefront on Origin? Will our creations be limited to bits and pieces already found in the game (but rearranged), or will we be free to create whatever we like, perhaps even using 3rd party tools to do so? How will this online requirement embrace or restrict the modding community?

And what of these magical online servers that grant us the sacred access to our measly purchase... surely they won't last forever. And when they do shut down, and the plugs are pulled... WIll there be enough of a community left to hack these broken pieces of the game back together? Make our own online global community from scratch? Keep going years after the game has left the shelves and sales have ceased?

I have seen answers to some of the more basic questions regarding the game itself, but these fundamental questions remain unanswered.

Bottom line: if this game will not let me play on my own without having an internet connection, I may just pass on it. And even if it does, if that online connection represents an effective end date for anyone playing the game, then I am seriously considering passing on it.

Maxis says they are developing this game with this community in mind. Arguably (and almost inrefutably so) this is the biggest, if not the only, global SimCity gaming community on the planet. If this community were to speak with one voice, they will listen. We may not change anything, but we can at least get their attention. Problem is, are there enough of us that care?

  Edited April 21, 2012 by schm0  

[meowza 230]

If they are going to insist Origin, then I would have to find a way to block it from accessing my PC other than SC itself. Such an inconvenience...

[NCGAIO 562]

If they are going to insist Origin, then I would have to find a way to block it from accessing my PC other than SC itself. Such an inconvenience...

That would be very easy to do ... But the question is not merely to avoid the service is actually the fact that you necessarily need it to play.

The philosophy behind it is not simply a permission to run the executable on the computer, but rather load part of the code to be executable.

The offline mode is an option only after you have logged into ORIGIN, so either way will have to use it to access the product.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

If they are going to insist Origin, then I would have to find a way to block it from accessing my PC other than SC itself. Such an inconvenience...

That would be very easy to do ... But the question is not merely to avoid the service is actually the fact that you necessarily need it to play.

The philosophy behind it is not simply a permission to run the executable on the computer, but rather load part of the code to be executable.

The offline mode is an option only after you have logged into ORIGIN, so either way will have to use it to access the product.

Yes, this has become abundantly clear. I guess this is not for me.

[cirugo 1,889]

http://www.gamezone.com/products/simcity/news/simcity-s-mandatory-internet-connection-totally-worth-having

"According to producer Jason Haber, the constant internet connection is "totally worth having." And come E3, fans will see why.

"From the ground up it's been a multiplayer game," Haber said. "I'm not surprised we're getting some reaction like this. But I think once people see it in action - and at E3 we're really looking forward to showing people multiplayer and how it works - hopefully that will show them why it's such a great feature and it's totally worth having.""

You read it here. Offline single-player not an option.

[jacksunny 741]

I don't think the reaction is because it is online, it is because it uses Origin.

[croxis 150]

How about we wait and see how the internet and multiplayer features work before we drink from either punchbowl?

[Mootilda 76]

How about we wait and see how the internet and multiplayer features work before we drink from either punchbowl?

I can read the Origin EULA now. There is nothing that EA could add to the game which would make this acceptable to me. I have no need to wait.

[cirugo 1,889]

How about we wait and see how the internet and multiplayer features work before we drink from either punchbowl?

I wouldn't even be participating in a discussion about how the multiplayer features worked if I wasn't going to be forced to participate in them. That's the problem here...this game has never been about multi-player and now they're forcing it on us. It should be optional only. I WANT to give Maxis my money. I WANT to buy this game...but if I have to be linked to other players to do it then I won't. If complaining about it will help them see that they might be losing a lot of game purchases that they'd otherwise have in their back pocket then it will have been worth it.

[croxis 150]

Origin is an issue, however I see it as an overlapping but seperate issue to the multiplayer gameplay. Sim City 2013 can require an always on connection without Origin, and it can have no multiplayer features but still require Origin. Best to make sure you are specific on your objections if it is the former, latter, or both.

The only mechanic, that we know of, being forced is the global economy. What we don't know is how the global economy impacts gameplay other than the cost/prices of goods, and we don't know what degree that has on a city.

I do agree with Maxis on this: It may or may not have been Will's initial goal, but SimCity has made players think about the world they live it. While there is definite room for the mindless Counterstrike or angry birds, there is a big open space for the thoughtful games. Our world is a very connected place, how can we have a thoughtful game using a 30 year out of date world view?

[cirugo 1,889]

Origin is an issue, however I see it as an overlapping but seperate issue to the multiplayer gameplay. Sim City 2013 can require an always on connection without Origin, and it can have no multiplayer features but still require Origin. Best to make sure you are specific on your objections if it is the former, latter, or both.

My objection is definitely both.

[schm0 27]

How about we wait and see how the internet and multiplayer features work before we drink from either punchbowl?

I think knowing that the "offline" single-player mode requires you to be online is enough to be concerned.

Again, the multiplayer aspect of the game doesn't bother me so much... as long as I can have a single player mode with a region I control with multiple cities and customizable terrain. (Unfortunately, nobody knows if all or some of that will be in the game at this point.) The multiplayer won't allow other people to modify my city while I'm gone... they'll only be able to interact with me externally.

But I should be able to play the single-player mode without having to get on the internet. That's not too much to ask.

  Edited April 21, 2012 by schm0  

[Mark Waybill 242]

I am more optimistic regarding this game since the latest information has become available. I would say that at E3 they will probably put to rest many fears alive today, although I highly doubt any last minute announcement that off line solo play disconnected from the market will exist. But there may be a sandbox mode, or some expansion pack you could plug in to allow for that in future. I think it's good they are focused on the core of the game and not worrying too much about early public opinions. Imagine in Will Wright had been very emo and read forums like these had they for some reason existed as he was making the game. We'd probably have a very different one, and probably not for the better.

I think online is the future and tbh offline solo play for any game is outdated.

[jacksunny 741]

From what has been said recently, it sounds like they are announcing more features regarding online at E3, maybe some member's fears will be put to rest.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Cirugo and Jacksunny, while I appreciate that you did resolve that little dispute by yourselves, can you please refrain from having any more one-on-one tit-for-tat style argument in this forum? We're here to discuss the issues, which I know you've both been doing pretty passionately, but we're not here to have drawn out conversations about who insulted who. If you want to do that sort of stuff, you can take it to PM's and call in a mod if you have to.

Moral of the story, starting sentences with lines like:

"Also, if you read the article and not just my quotes from it..."

or

"And if you had took the time to learn about this game..."

is not the best way to go about things.

Thanks.

---

Now, back to this topic of this thread: SimCity to require always-on connection to Origin. I know some of us (including me) confused the always online due to gameplay features requirement with the always online due to Origin requirement earlier on, but this thread is really supposed to be about Origin.

That discussion has now been removed - Craig-Abcvs

[iEatRazorz 24]

I think online is the future and tbh offline solo play for any game is outdated.

I'd beg to differ. It's outdated as much as the devs and publishers allow it to be. Red Dead Redemption had an amazing solo campaign. Multiplay was something unto itself and didn't interfere. The problem with solo games is that the story or game play suffer almost always. Such as AC1. The story was drivel, because of how the story was written the amazing game play concept became linear and boring. Bethesda can't write a story to save their lives imo. The draw to that is the lore, witch can help the gameplay because they can vary factions and how those factions play. I get more out the simple disputes between store owners and political driven quest lines from those games. Those examples could be considered purely opinion though such as the statement saying solo is dead.

EA is driving at an always connected model and I wish I could find the story that quotes them on that. They discuss how games would stretch across consoles, tablets and phones. Origin is the interface for that. Even though outside the box thinking with multiplayer is going to yield some really cool stuff, not everyone wants it. EA is gonna find that out the hard way.

[AIX 270]

It sounded like you did not realize the purpose of the online features because you were only pointing out the negative aspects of it. And I know plenty of people resent it, it just annoys me that so many people act like it is an absolutely horrible thing.

The negative aspects frankly do outweigh the positive. Read Origin's EULA if you haven't already. I am not denying that a global market place and "sim planet" would be super awesome, but not if it is involving Origin. That is the one and only complaint I have about this entire thing. Unfortunately, it is such a big deal that it overwhelmingly outweighs the positive aspects.

For me, this boils down to A) Paying $80 at the start, B) having Origin snoop on my PC and consume computing resources that are mine and C) use my information to serve me ads. I refuse to pay money for the "privilege" of having advertising rammed down my throat and my computing resources consumed at no profit/benefit to me.

Again, I do not deny the positive/wonderful aspects of this game. Sadly, Origin is such a severe negative that it throws the "pros an cons" balance far out of wack.

[jacksunny 741]

I agree with you AIX, and it''s really unfortunate that Origin has to be the way it is.

[jdenm8 362]

Am I the only person who sees this "Global Economy" going to crap after a few months when the game's flooded with people who don't understand the complexity? What's worse is that your own private game will be affected by new people creating drivel cities online because they have no offline arena in which to practice and then Maxis mentioned that they're going to allow these cities to perpetuate! Say you've had a bad draw and got three bad people on beside you. Even if they leave, the negative effects will still radiate from that city. Their bad play will spread like a cancer.

Now, as for Origin. It's deterred me from titles. I'm going to make this plain and simple for you EA:

You have lost over AU$300 in sales to me because of this dumb Origin requirement poisoning your games. In fact, your treatment of games that don't use it has put me off your products PERIOD. It took THREE WEEKS to get the rather token online fixed in one. I was about to send the email to Valve requesting a refund as per my rights when the email saying it had been fixed came through. In fact, I'll be surprised if I ever buy another modern EA game ever again.

Ahem. Now I have that out of my system. I'm against Origin. It's not because I already have a Steam account and Steam does these things better. It's because of that downright toxic EULA and the recent treatment of their customers.

Besides, it won't be long before someone fixes Origin like they did UPlay.

  Edited April 22, 2012 by jdenm8  

[Treker4747 0]

The game is a solid year, year and half and probably more realistically two-years away (has a game ever made it out on it's first announced date(s)?) I think it's a wee bit early to say, for sure, what this game will and will not have in it and what will and will not be required in order to play it. Backlash against the Origin/"always online" bit could force EA to change their minds or go a different route. I'd say we wait until we get a lot more info before writing the game off.

Always being logged into/connected to a server doesn't greatly sit well for me but if the simulation and gameplay are great and match or rival the current state of SC4:Rush Hour (with mods) I'll be there. Heck, I'd be happy if it was that with just updated graphics and a 3D camera.

It's been a long 9-10 years since we've had a decent SImCity game (I'm looking at you, Societies) and I'll certainly give this one a try. Plus it means I get an excuse to build a brand new computer with the latest specs next year, too!