Discussion about City Tile Size

[AkemiAzula 280]

I can't believe, still, that this game was made by Maxis. By EA. By the big guys. And yet a small studio like Collosal Order can produce an agent system so much better...

 

And they have massive maps compared to what we do with this

[12thDoctor 14]

I don't think it's a technical limitation at all or a matter of people's CPUs being unable to handle the load, I think Glassbox can only work with a 2*2 city tile. Shocking really.

 

 

It's likely a bit of both. With pathfinding over long distances, it becomes an issue of combinatorial optimization: the difficulty and complexity of these computations increase exponentially as the number of choices, possibilities, and variables branch out further and further... essentially the classic "traveling salesman problem." These problems are what are known as NP-Hard problems and is a type of computation that traditional computing hardware struggles with. It essentially needs to brute-force and calculate every possibility in order to compare them and find the most optimal solution.

 

For an example of how this exponential increase in difficulty would translate into the game, for graph of x², where x is the area of the city lot and y is number of calculable possibilities:

Where x = 5, y = 25. 

Doubling the map area, x, making x = 10 returns y = 100... a 4x increase in complexity.

Tripling the map area, making x = 14, returns y = 225... a 45x increase in complexity.

 

So just by doubling the map size, it would increase computational complexity by up to four times... just for pathfinding alone. 

 

The most effective means of solving these sort of NP-hard, combinatorial optimization computations is currently a quantum computer taking advantage of Grover's algorithm, which can give a quadratic speedup over typical computational brute-force search calculation methods. (But that won't help you very much unless you're Google, NASA, or Lockheed Martin and have access to a D-Wave 2 computer.)

 

Most likely, Maxis isn't using typical brute-force means to solve the NP-Hard pathfinding solutions simply due to the computational load it requirement. Instead, they've probably developed a much more rudimentary pathfinding system with more simple rules and calculations, resulting in far lower CPU usage... but at the same time also being far less efficient in its pathfinding decisions (as you've undoubtedly seen firsthand). But doubling the map size will still create exponentially greater pathing variations and would certainly make the Glassbox pathfinding systems, as it stands, even less effective... not to mention that doubling the map size would also lead to nearly doubling the number of agents requiring pathfinding. Most pathfinding we see in games is only being used for a handful of NPCs at a time. The more effective pathfinding system, the higher the CPU demands. So in order to run this pathfinding for several hundred of game agents, simultaneously, it requires "dumbing down," of sorts, in order to make the load manageable. 

 

TL;DR: My point is that effective pathfinding is not that simple to implement, especially on the scale that is required within SimCity due to the sheer number of agents. Doubling the map size will have a much bigger impact on the game's computational requirements than one might suspect. The issue is of limitations both with the GlassBox engine and with CPU load. The GlassBox engine likely would struggle with larger maps; Improving the GlassBox engine to work more efficiently on larger maps would require more clock cycles. 

 

Note: So as not to misinterpret my intent, I am not defending EA/Maxis here, and I'm all for larger map sizes... I merely just want to make it clear that the issue is more complex than it may appear. Personally, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

I don't think it's a technical limitation at all or a matter of people's CPUs being unable to handle the load, I think Glassbox can only work with a 2*2 city tile. Shocking really.

It's likely a bit of both. With pathfinding over long distances, it becomes an issue of combinatorial optimization: the difficulty and complexity of these computations increase exponentially as the number of choices, possibilities, and variables branch out further and further... essentially the classic "traveling salesman problem." These problems are what are known as NP-Hard problems and is a type of computation that traditional computing hardware struggles with. It essentially needs to brute-force and calculate every possibility in order to compare them and find the most optimal solution.

For an example of how this exponential increase in difficulty would translate into the game, for graph of x², where x is the area of the city lot and y is number of calculable possibilities:

Where x = 5, y = 25.

Doubling the map area, x, making x = 10 returns y = 100... a 4x increase in complexity.

Tripling the map area, making x = 14, returns y = 225... a 45xincrease in complexity.

So just by doubling the map size, it would increase computational complexity by up to four times... just for pathfinding alone.

The most effective means of solving these sort of NP-hard, combinatorial optimization computations is currently a quantum computer taking advantage of Grover's algorithm, which can give a quadratic speedup over typical computational brute-force search calculation methods. (But that won't help you very much unless you're Google, NASA, or Lockheed Martin and have access to a D-Wave 2 computer.)

Most likely, Maxis isn't using typical brute-force means to solve the NP-Hard pathfinding solutions simply due to the computational load it requirement. Instead, they've probably developed a much more rudimentary pathfinding system with more simple rules and calculations, resulting in far lower CPU usage... but at the same time also being far less efficient in its pathfinding decisions (as you've undoubtedly seen firsthand). But doubling the map size will still create exponentially greater pathing variations and would certainly make the Glassbox pathfinding systems, as it stands, even less effective... not to mention that doubling the map size would also lead to nearly doubling the number of agents requiring pathfinding. Most pathfinding we see in games is only being used for a handful of NPCs at a time. The more effective pathfinding system, the higher the CPU demands. So in order to run this pathfinding for several hundred of game agents, simultaneously, it requires "dumbing down," of sorts, in order to make the load manageable.

TL;DR: My point is that effective pathfinding is not that simple to implement, especially on the scale that is required within SimCity due to the sheer number of agents. Doubling the map size will have a much bigger impact on the game's computational requirements than one might suspect. The issue is of limitations both with the GlassBox engine and with CPU load. The GlassBox engine likely would struggle with larger maps; Improving the GlassBox engine to work more efficiently on larger maps would require more clock cycles.

Note: So as not to misinterpret my intent, I am not defending EA/Maxis here, and I'm all for larger map sizes... I merely just want to make it clear that the issue is more complex than it may appear. Personally, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Love the science Doctor!

It is starting to sound a little bit like the two parties involved in making the game had very different agendas and I believe that it comes back to the multiplayer angle of the game.

Everyone knows that a multiplayer game will shift more units and to do that the game needs to run on as many PCs as possible which means that it would need to either be utterly scalable or you start limiting features of the game.

The build outside the box mods have proved that it is possible to build anywhere on the map. My thinking would be that the reason that Maxis have not put in bigger plot sizes is due to the fear that the additional grunt required to make it work would kill the "average" PC and alienate a large portion of the potential customer base.

The decision to make this a multiplayer city builder has in my opinion directly lead to the smaller map sizes that we have currently along with the dumbed down mechanics the good doctor mentioned.

I think Maxis probably tried to give us the game we want but were shut down by EA who want to see a return on their investment. What we got was the one size fits all console solution.

I do not think that we will see larger maps until they give us a true single player version of the game.

I wouldn't mind the small maps as the penalty for multi play I just wish we had the choice. I also feel we are suffering the ill effects of a console focused company producing a PC game.

[DmainEvent 195]

 

I don't think it's a technical limitation at all or a matter of people's CPUs being unable to handle the load, I think Glassbox can only work with a 2*2 city tile. Shocking really.

 

 

It's likely a bit of both. With pathfinding over long distances, it becomes an issue of combinatorial optimization: the difficulty and complexity of these computations increase exponentially as the number of choices, possibilities, and variables branch out further and further... essentially the classic "traveling salesman problem." These problems are what are known as NP-Hard problems and is a type of computation that traditional computing hardware struggles with. It essentially needs to brute-force and calculate every possibility in order to compare them and find the most optimal solution.

 

For an example of how this exponential increase in difficulty would translate into the game, for graph of x², where x is the area of the city lot and y is number of calculable possibilities:

Where x = 5, y = 25. 

Doubling the map area, x, making x = 10 returns y = 100... a 4x increase in complexity.

Tripling the map area, making x = 14, returns y = 225... a 45x increase in complexity.

 

So just by doubling the map size, it would increase computational complexity by up to four times... just for pathfinding alone. 

 

The most effective means of solving these sort of NP-hard, combinatorial optimization computations is currently a quantum computer taking advantage of Grover's algorithm, which can give a quadratic speedup over typical computational brute-force search calculation methods. (But that won't help you very much unless you're Google, NASA, or Lockheed Martin and have access to a D-Wave 2 computer.)

 

Most likely, Maxis isn't using typical brute-force means to solve the NP-Hard pathfinding solutions simply due to the computational load it requirement. Instead, they've probably developed a much more rudimentary pathfinding system with more simple rules and calculations, resulting in far lower CPU usage... but at the same time also being far less efficient in its pathfinding decisions (as you've undoubtedly seen firsthand). But doubling the map size will still create exponentially greater pathing variations and would certainly make the Glassbox pathfinding systems, as it stands, even less effective... not to mention that doubling the map size would also lead to nearly doubling the number of agents requiring pathfinding. Most pathfinding we see in games is only being used for a handful of NPCs at a time. The more effective pathfinding system, the higher the CPU demands. So in order to run this pathfinding for several hundred of game agents, simultaneously, it requires "dumbing down," of sorts, in order to make the load manageable. 

 

TL;DR: My point is that effective pathfinding is not that simple to implement, especially on the scale that is required within SimCity due to the sheer number of agents. Doubling the map size will have a much bigger impact on the game's computational requirements than one might suspect. The issue is of limitations both with the GlassBox engine and with CPU load. The GlassBox engine likely would struggle with larger maps; Improving the GlassBox engine to work more efficiently on larger maps would require more clock cycles. 

 

Note: So as not to misinterpret my intent, I am not defending EA/Maxis here, and I'm all for larger map sizes... I merely just want to make it clear that the issue is more complex than it may appear. Personally, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

 

 

You have summarized the problem in a way I am not sure I even could have attempted (I was terrible at Algorithms back in college).  Which is why I am an advocate of a simple statistical simulation eliminating the need for such complex path finding algorithms, and just show a statistical representation of traffic over a certain path (road, rail, etc).  I am not sure why they went this route, but I think and I have asserted this almost since I first heard of this, that the glassbox engine was a poor design decision born out of Maxis' misunderstanding of why SimCity Fans play there game.  Glassbox was probably designed for Simtown 15 years ago, and they dusted it off for this game...  But let me just say that they create statistical representation of populations anyway, why not just go all the way?

[Nique 291]

I don't care if people expect stuff from SC4 in SC2013. I don't see the problem. Take a look at what Collosal Order did (they used Unity3D). 8km x 8km map. Yes that big. Now that sounds a whole lot better. And also; people are agents, you can see what they are doing and where they are going. 

 

A city doesn't fit in 2x2 km squares. End of story. Why call it SimCITY ...?

And if you want to 'simulate' a city by using all the city 'slots' in the region my brain has a lot of trouble by recognizing a 'city' pattern while hovering above the region. There's more land between the cities that can't be build on than there is actual land to build on. Why all these limitations? Wasn't the Simcity Franchise praised for the allowance of freedom and creativity in gameplay? Yea let's throw that out of the window. 

 

In fact.. lets throw another important thing out of the window: 'hardcore gamer with their rigs' vs 'casual desktop'.. If you develop a game for the widest audience possible (thus writing a light very limited game) you will lose customers and image. People will NOT buy the game because to many features are missing to make the game worth the title.

 

If the glassbox engine can't handle 'more' well then Maxis has a problem. Also, bigger map's are at the bottom of the list, if at all on the list.

How can one call this a 'simulation'? Like said earlier: Siren alarmed cars have to wait in front of red traffic lights. A train is 10 times bigger than the railway station. The Highway interchange is a joke.. i mean.. go for 3d or stick with 2d.. but don't do this.. this is laughable..sorry. hahaha 

 

the list goes on and on. 

 

Keep in mind that this was a very very expensive game. 

Expect criticism.

---

Mod Edit: Removed insulting remark.

[humus 0]

 

I don't think it's a technical limitation at all or a matter of people's CPUs being unable to handle the load, I think Glassbox can only work with a 2*2 city tile. Shocking really.

 

 

It's likely a bit of both. With pathfinding over long distances, it becomes an issue of combinatorial optimization: the difficulty and complexity of these computations increase exponentially as the number of choices, possibilities, and variables branch out further and further... essentially the classic "traveling salesman problem." These problems are what are known as NP-Hard problems and is a type of computation that traditional computing hardware struggles with. It essentially needs to brute-force and calculate every possibility in order to compare them and find the most optimal solution.

 

For an example of how this exponential increase in difficulty would translate into the game, for graph of x², where x is the area of the city lot and y is number of calculable possibilities:

Where x = 5, y = 25. 

Doubling the map area, x, making x = 10 returns y = 100... a 4x increase in complexity.

Tripling the map area, making x = 14, returns y = 225... a 45x increase in complexity.

 

So just by doubling the map size, it would increase computational complexity by up to four times... just for pathfinding alone. 

 

The most effective means of solving these sort of NP-hard, combinatorial optimization computations is currently a quantum computer taking advantage of Grover's algorithm, which can give a quadratic speedup over typical computational brute-force search calculation methods. (But that won't help you very much unless you're Google, NASA, or Lockheed Martin and have access to a D-Wave 2 computer.)

 

Most likely, Maxis isn't using typical brute-force means to solve the NP-Hard pathfinding solutions simply due to the computational load it requirement. Instead, they've probably developed a much more rudimentary pathfinding system with more simple rules and calculations, resulting in far lower CPU usage... but at the same time also being far less efficient in its pathfinding decisions (as you've undoubtedly seen firsthand). But doubling the map size will still create exponentially greater pathing variations and would certainly make the Glassbox pathfinding systems, as it stands, even less effective... not to mention that doubling the map size would also lead to nearly doubling the number of agents requiring pathfinding. Most pathfinding we see in games is only being used for a handful of NPCs at a time. The more effective pathfinding system, the higher the CPU demands. So in order to run this pathfinding for several hundred of game agents, simultaneously, it requires "dumbing down," of sorts, in order to make the load manageable. 

 

TL;DR: My point is that effective pathfinding is not that simple to implement, especially on the scale that is required within SimCity due to the sheer number of agents. Doubling the map size will have a much bigger impact on the game's computational requirements than one might suspect. The issue is of limitations both with the GlassBox engine and with CPU load. The GlassBox engine likely would struggle with larger maps; Improving the GlassBox engine to work more efficiently on larger maps would require more clock cycles. 

 

Note: So as not to misinterpret my intent, I am not defending EA/Maxis here, and I'm all for larger map sizes... I merely just want to make it clear that the issue is more complex than it may appear. Personally, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

 

Isnt That what Maxis pro claimed Cloud computing will be used for ?

The always on Requirement they give on sim city 2013 ?

 

If they say, always on was for help our pc load by taking agents calculation to EA server. The larger map size were not so much of a problem Then 

 

oh, btw is that feature even exist ? frow what i feel. the always on Internet connection were not used for cloud computing, only save, leaderboard, region stuff like commute seems random also

all the agents stuff were calculated by local machine. and either way the cloud computing they imagine for never actualy helped lighten PC load.

 

Either way, The always connect features not only they failed to utilize optimumly. become a constraint rather than advantage

[AkemiAzula 280]

Nique made a darn good point. This is an expensive game, and it is not value for money. I was hesitant about purchasing it, but, after seeing Quigley's enthusiastic videos about GlassBox, and thinking all we'd seen was pretty early alpha, decided to pre-order despite my apprehensions.

 

And boy did I regret that.

 

This is the biggest scam that ever there was. This game is... Utterly unworth the money we paid for it. I trusted Maxis... I thought they wouldn't turn to the EA side of the force... And now they've let us down.

 

Simcity as Nique said is about creativity... freedom... not limitation!

[The Pennsylvania Turnpike 252]

Nique made a darn good point. This is an expensive game, and it is not value for money. I was hesitant about purchasing it, but, after seeing Quigley's enthusiastic videos about GlassBox, and thinking all we'd seen was pretty early alpha, decided to pre-order despite my apprehensions.

 

And boy did I regret that.

 

This is the biggest scam that ever there was. This game is... Utterly unworth the money we paid for it. I trusted Maxis... I thought they wouldn't turn to the EA side of the force... And now they've let us down.

 

Simcity as Nique said is about creativity... freedom... not limitation!

On the back of the SImCity Box, it states at the top "Explore a world of endless possibilities" But all joking aside i don't know why the city sizes are so small. You'd think that Maxis would release an update making bigger city sizes by May but nope, all we get is some $10 DLC for Balloons. It's not like Maxis can't make them bigger. Look at SimCity 4, look at SimCity 3000, Look at SimCity SNES! All the maps in those games are bigger than the maps in SimCity 2013. If i were to recreate my neighborhood in SimCity 2013, i would not be able to without cutting corners. Another thing i dislike about the game is all the wasted space in the regions. Look at all the unused land in the regions. It feels really unrealistic and just makes you want bigger cities more and questions if EA is actually trying to make the game better or if they are lighting their million dollar fire places with our Hard earned money.

[AkemiAzula 280]

It is beyond me why they, weighing up the choice between 'Sims agent based realtime traffic etc' and 'big maps, curved roads, realistic gradients etc' EA didn't call the title SimTown 2013 and put aside the whole regional play concept altogether... 

 

Regions in this game don't make any sense. The social aspect of multiplayer would better be served by a Cityville style 'visit friend's cities' system and Cityville gifting system... It would make far more sense both socially and realistically to just have it like Cityville if that was the direction they wanted to head.

 

In Simcity 2000 I used to run out of space. I admit this. But the game made up for this to a great extent, and it still afforded hours of entertainment.

 

In Simcity 3000 I eventually ran out of space, but could create fairly realistic city layouts nonetheless.

 

In SC4 I actually had too much space to do anything with and could realistically recreate an entire county if it weren't for the grid based roads.

 

So, logically we should get regions of SC4 size but with curvy roads.

 

And we got this. EA, you failed.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

It is beyond me why they, weighing up the choice between 'Sims agent based realtime traffic etc' and 'big maps, curved roads, realistic gradients etc' EA didn't call the title SimTown 2013 and put aside the whole regional play concept altogether...

Regions in this game don't make any sense. The social aspect of multiplayer would better be served by a Cityville style 'visit friend's cities' system and Cityville gifting system... It would make far more sense both socially and realistically to just have it like Cityville if that was the direction they wanted to head.

In Simcity 2000 I used to run out of space. I admit this. But the game made up for this to a great extent, and it still afforded hours of entertainment.

In Simcity 3000 I eventually ran out of space, but could create fairly realistic city layouts nonetheless.

In SC4 I actually had too much space to do anything with and could realistically recreate an entire county if it weren't for the grid based roads.

So, logically we should get regions of SC4 size but with curvy roads.

And we got this. EA, you failed.

This is exactly the problem. Even after Maxis came out and told us that they were creating a game with a different focus to the previous sim city games everyone seems to have ignored them.

Don't get me wrong I want bigger maps just like everyone else but I also remember them stating quite clearly that we were getting smaller map and I am not trying to troll you Mark as I get exactly where you are coming from.

I guess from my point of view this is all just an issue of managing expectations and that is really where they have failed. They told us that the had this really cool game that we were going to love but do not seem to have asked what we want. Subsequently they delivered a game that did not match the expectations of the consumer (ie SC4 on steroids).

If we had that game I wonder if we would be complaining that it wasn't innovative enough and that it would make more sense if the city size were smaller!

Either way I would settle for maps that were a more realistic shape instead of just giving us the square. I'd also like these dead space between cities to be used for something.

Mind you this wish list is going to be a long way down the list as I think the have bigger things to worry about at the moment...

[RikkiGTR 1]

If we had that game I wonder if we would be complaining that it wasn't innovative enough and that it would make more sense if the city size were smaller!

 

We would always find something to complain about, I couldn't dispute that. But virtually the entire SC2013 community is apoplectic about the meagre "city" (word used very liberally) size. We're not all wrong....

It's pathetic, and a slap in the face.

[JoelcrNeto 11]

According to Maxis will never be possible to put larger maps because the graphics engine Glass Box meant that no computer process such detail (such as animations), recently used the size is ideal for the computer.

They also say that in the future it will be possible to increase the size of the map slowly: it will be more in line with the evolution of computer technology, more specifically of graphics cards.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

According to Maxis will never be possible to put larger maps because the graphics engine Glass Box meant that no computer process such detail (such as animations), recently used the size is ideal for the computer.

They also say that in the future it will be possible to increase the size of the map slowly: it will be more in line with the evolution of computer technology, more specifically of graphics cards.

This actually makes a lot of sense. If they have pushed things as far as the average computer can go at this time using Glassbox then something had to give.

Is it actually the graphics cards that cause the issues or is it the raw number crunching on the CPU that causes the problems (or both)?

I would have thought that some of the high end rigs out there would be able to handle it but if the calculations increase exponentially then maybe not...

[pcwhiz24 1,187]

Let me paint a picture for you all:

 

I live in a small suburban area, within my county.

 

From my house to my school....it's measured to be exactly 1.8 miles. It's a 2 minute drive, on a long road with bumps.

 

SimCity tiles are 1.25 miles long...Pathetic!

 

How the heck can a city fit in that?!

[JoelcrNeto 11]

 

This actually makes a lot of sense. If they have pushed things as far as the average computer can go at this time using Glassbox then something had to give.

Is it actually the graphics cards that cause the issues or is it the raw number crunching on the CPU that causes the problems (or both)?

I would have thought that some of the high end rigs out there would be able to handle it but if the calculations increase exponentially then maybe not...

 

 

Both sides therefore graphics processors (GPUs) and standard processors (CPUs) need to work together so that the game has a good performance, while GPUs process the images (graphic) CPUs perform programming and some arithmetic calculations the game as the animation of vehicles, pedestrians on the streets and the amount of money spent by you.

If increasing exponentially codes there that things work even less, perhaps a more advanced computer manages to come surely.

[AkemiAzula 280]

I live in a village which is as large as a Sim 'City'... 

[CapTon 592]

From what I've read in earlier posts, I can say that this probably wasn't Maxis's fault. EA failed to provide whatever was needed to give us the game we want. 

 

I'm not that intelligent. I'm going to say that right now. I have no idea how Maxis would be able to increase the size of the maps, but this is just me. That doctor guy (sorry, forgot your username and I'm too lazy to scroll back up and look) obviously should be on some game development team, if he/she isn't already. My point being, and I mean this in the nicest way possible; MOST of the "whiners" on any SimCity forum don't have a clue on what it might take to create bigger maps.

 

You can't blame somebody for not giving you what you want when you don't know what effort and work they may have to put forth. 

 

And I know I'm about to be criticized and everything, but I'm stating my opinion and what I feel is the truth.

[Noobi-Wan 22]

From what I've read in earlier posts, I can say that this probably wasn't Maxis's fault. EA failed to provide whatever was needed to give us the game we want.

I'm not that intelligent. I'm going to say that right now. I have no idea how Maxis would be able to increase the size of the maps, but this is just me. That doctor guy (sorry, forgot your username and I'm too lazy to scroll back up and look) obviously should be on some game development team, if he/she isn't already. My point being, and I mean this in the nicest way possible; MOST of the "whiners" on any SimCity forum don't have a clue on what it might take to create bigger maps.

You can't blame somebody for not giving you what you want when you don't know what effort and work they may have to put forth.

And I know I'm about to be criticized and everything, but I'm stating my opinion and what I feel is the truth.

No criticism here, I think you make an excellent point!

[CapTon 592]

 

From what I've read in earlier posts, I can say that this probably wasn't Maxis's fault. EA failed to provide whatever was needed to give us the game we want.

I'm not that intelligent. I'm going to say that right now. I have no idea how Maxis would be able to increase the size of the maps, but this is just me. That doctor guy (sorry, forgot your username and I'm too lazy to scroll back up and look) obviously should be on some game development team, if he/she isn't already. My point being, and I mean this in the nicest way possible; MOST of the "whiners" on any SimCity forum don't have a clue on what it might take to create bigger maps.

You can't blame somebody for not giving you what you want when you don't know what effort and work they may have to put forth.

And I know I'm about to be criticized and everything, but I'm stating my opinion and what I feel is the truth.

No criticism here, I think you make an excellent point!

 

 

Thanks

[ghosty12 13]

From what I've read in earlier posts, I can say that this probably wasn't Maxis's fault. EA failed to provide whatever was needed to give us the game we want. 

 

I'm not that intelligent. I'm going to say that right now. I have no idea how Maxis would be able to increase the size of the maps, but this is just me. That doctor guy (sorry, forgot your username and I'm too lazy to scroll back up and look) obviously should be on some game development team, if he/she isn't already. My point being, and I mean this in the nicest way possible; MOST of the "whiners" on any SimCity forum don't have a clue on what it might take to create bigger maps.

 

You can't blame somebody for not giving you what you want when you don't know what effort and work they may have to put forth. 

 

And I know I'm about to be criticized and everything, but I'm stating my opinion and what I feel is the truth.

A very excellent point.. 

 

I remember on my Pentium 3 or Pentium 4 forget which lol I would always play on small to medium maps when playing SC4 for if I played on a big map and had a large city things would really slow down..

 

But in the end it seems unfortunately to be the age of the whiner sometimes they can have a point about what is wrong and needs to be fixed..  Other times they have nothing better to do and so they complain just for the heck of it..

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Ah...indeed. There are constructive whiners and not so constructive whiners about constructive whiners. It takes all types! Thank goodness EA is acting responsive to the whining. They are openly acknowledging their lousy attitude and poor communication skill - even hint at asking us what we want thru a user survey! Even pre-emptively promise a offline The Sims 4! I would like to thank all the most enthusiastic SimCity whiners for making all that happen!

 

Now it's my turn to give constructive, impersonal, subject-relevant map-oriented whining...

 

I don't care if people expect stuff from SC4 in SC2013. I don't see the problem.

 

No problem indeed. If next version Photoshop removes basic round brushes, saturation adjustment, cropping features see their core fans up in arms too. No whining there. Just straight-forward, totally-justified outrage, followed by protests or exodus. Logical progression...really.

 

So yeah, Simcity removing user control on region maps, God Mode, map size options, map edge intercity connection options, what would likely happen? Right...

 

Of course people will keep referring to SC4. It was the most recent version of SimCity wasn't it? Which recent SimCity came with village size plots with pre-placed city connections? None. So well, expect to hear more "I want this SC4 basic and that SC4 features".

 

A city doesn't fit in 2x2 km squares. End of story. Why call it SimCITY ...?

 

Exactly. It boggled the mind, until I caught a slip in one official video. Fact is Maxis didn't call the 2x2km plots "cities". They called them TOWNS. Yep, you hear me right. See my earlier complete with pic. The slip was caught in an official demo video. It seems they are in touch with consensual reality and actually agreed with us that 2x2km equals towns! Still, they changed their minds, and decided to sell the 2x2 towns to us as "cities". But no matter. They have every right to do whatever they do to risk their investments. Buyers have every right to buy or not buy or whine or ask for their money back.

 

More importantly for me though, from the leaked July 5th survey, they are considering and thus are capable of making the plots bigger, and cities contiguous, even BORDERLESS!!

In their own words:

Bigger Cities: Imagine city spaces that are 2x the current city size, to build bigger cities.

Cities Without Boundaries: The landscape is wide open. Push your cities for miles and miles. Set your own city borders and connect your cities however you like.

 

Aha. so they can do "borderless". Why? Because the 2x2 were towns in the first place!

 

This adds to my theory that the "region" we have today, were meant to be one single "city". From development day one. This also potentially means, to give us the two features above, they probably don't even need to write new codes, just get rid of their silly Cityville-wannabe square boxes and fixed citylinks.

 

Then again Kotaku exposed EA/Maxis could've given us offline, from day one.

 

My concern is their bigger map is merely "2x". 2x of 2x2 is not 4x4. It's like 2.83 x 2.83, not even 3x3. Hello? If so, EA, don't bother. Unless the "bigger" map has 8x8 ++ options, it's meaningless, to me anyway.

 

Smartest move, IMO, is 100% map freedom for offline. Just like SC4. Stop wasting time grappling over 2x2 4x4 8x8 12x12 for offline. Cities without boundaries. Build as big as our PC can handle. 

 

And announce it soon. When some of the uncompromising ones are still lingering around. Investor relation press needs new angle.

 

[SAGGG 47]

Stands up and cheers wildly. Hit the nail on the proverbial head! Bravo! I want bigger maps!

[dray41 3]

People PLEASE quit rationalizing it!!! The squares are too small, end of story. One of (if not THEE best part) simcities best feature WAS that you make a city as large as you like.

---

Mod Edit: Mind your language please.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Somebody really needs to do a Brandon Smith at Kickstarter... Civitas aint going nowhere... And I think that's the only way we'll ever get what we actually want rather than a corporate compromise.

[max2 0]

Will we ever get bigger maps in Simcity 5 ? I love the amusment park addon but it takes up so much room.

[KaOra 4]

Will we ever get bigger maps in Simcity 5 ? I love the amusment park addon but it takes up so much room.

 

I think it's possible, I would like to see some directly adjacent tiles as the current online community multi player aspect that they seem so driven about is..............well.................ahem......................boring.

 

Larger tiles that two people could manage would be fun. 

 

and a region builder

[MarcusOrilius 7]

Let's ask this a different way... Who would have bought SimCity 5 if all they did was update the graphics of SC4, added the industry aspect, added modular buildings and enhanced the ability to create mods? I know I would have!

 

If I am not alone in this, then someone at EA / Maxis (whoever) missed the boat on the CUSTOMER'S desire to depart with their money in order to build CITIES. I have been a faithful SimCity fan for almost 24 years... Saying that SC4 is the better game should be telling you something... SimCity is NOT about online collaboration and 3D graphics – that’s a “nice to have” or a bonus.

 

This game will not be successful in the eyes of the true fan if you sacrifice what is at the core of the game for these new features. ADD FEATURES, DON'T REMOVE CORE ELEMENTS!

 

I know the "cloud" computing is the future, but don't step back in what makes a game worth playing just to be able to meet the latest marketing trend in time for Christmas… DLC doesn't matter when the CORE game is BROKEN!

[JoelcrNeto 11]

Let's ask this a different way... Who would have bought SimCity 5 if all they did was update the graphics of SC4, added the industry aspect, added modular buildings and enhanced the ability to create mods? I know I would have!

 

If I am not alone in this, then someone at EA / Maxis (whoever) missed the boat on the CUSTOMER'S desire to depart with their money in order to build CITIES. I have been a faithful SimCity fan for almost 24 years... Saying that SC4 is the better game should be telling you something... SimCity is NOT about online collaboration and 3D graphics – that’s a “nice to have” or a bonus.

 

This game will not be successful in the eyes of the true fan if you sacrifice what is at the core of the game for these new features. ADD FEATURES, DON'T REMOVE CORE ELEMENTS!

 

 

I know the "cloud" computing is the future, but don't step back in what makes a game worth playing just to be able to meet the latest marketing trend in time for Christmas… DLC doesn't matter when the CORE game is BROKEN!

 

I think so: SimCity 2013 should have been better based on SimCity 4 while maintaining the same functions (and make it a little easier) as public transport. What should have been done is a modernization and adding what I found very interesting is that this specialization of the city that generates extra income. I think it may be even better than the SC 4.

[ebalosus 19]

People PLEASE quit rationalizing it!!! The squares are too small, end of story. One of (if not THEE best part) simcities best feature WAS that you make a city as large as you like.

 

Yeah...There are no two ways about it as far as I'm concerned: The maps are too small.

[DmainEvent 195]

larger contiguous maps and offline mode are what this game needs.