SimCity: Multiplayer Discussion

[Daytripper 41]

How optional will the Global Market really be? Coal and oil can be replaced by renewable energy sources but will this apply to all resources? In the Simcity World Trailer video at 0.20, there is a screenshot which shows trading in ore, metal, alloy and electronics. The last 3 may be products of industry but what happens when a region runs out of ore? Will the player be forced to buy more from the Global Market or phase out all industry that requires ore?

[RoseCityAlive 9]

I think that if you run out then you will be forced to buy off the market to keep your industry going, or be faced with a real life scenario of resesion that will force your city readjust or diversify your economy much like a real city.

[pyanodon 218]

I think everybody knows at this point, but i will post here to keep a registry. Maxis isnt the vilain in that, EA is who forced Maxis do what they´re doing:

http://www.destructoid.com/ea-boss-proudly-refuses-to-publish-single-player-games-234402.phtml

[Megaopolisbuilder54 7]

what sucks about multiplayer is when the neigboring cities have it pollutes your city.

[pyanodon 218]

http://www.destructo...es-234402.phtml

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/blogs/game-junkie/7632788/So-long-Ubisoft-DRM-can-t-say-I-ll-miss-you meanwhile on Ubisoft....

[spiritbw 111]

Saw that elsewhere. Ubisoft dropped the always online requirment for single player games. You still need a connection for the one time activation, but after that, you can be unplugged and still play the upcoming Assasin's Creed III. Might be the first of the series I actually buy.

EDIT: Oh and you should hear the love people are expressing fro Ubisoft after hearing about that!

  Edited September 8, 2012 by spiritbw  

[pyanodon 218]

Saw that elsewhere. Ubisoft dropped the always online requirment for single player games. You still need a connection for the one time activation, but after that, you can be unplugged and still play the upcoming Assasin's Creed III. Might be the first of the series I actually buy.

EDIT: Oh and you should hear the love people are expressing fro Ubisoft after hearing about that!

Yes...i saw... Seems like a small victory to singleplayers

[tombrown14 6]

For me the idea of connecting to somebodies city is pointless.I'm playing the game so the universe should be mine to design. I'd much rather build two cities myself that trade with each other as generally most of probably wat the perfect bordering on utopia cities.

Having to listen to the developers say cities don't exist in a bubble as if that's some kid of profound statement is ridiculous especially since it is not true.

In fact cities almost always exist within their own bubble such as London vs the entire rest of the country - London having more people than Scotland and Wales combined (statsitics depending) or New York City vs New York State.

Two cities close to each other but in two seperate countries might or might not have a level of interconnectedness. e.g. London and Paris - fairly well connected. On the other hand it takes 7 less minutes to travel to Manchester which is in the same country!!!! So interconnectedness worldwide is dictated by history and circumstance rather than a 'if you build it they will come' attitude.

The real issue for me is that in fantasy land i don't want to be burdened by a replica of the doomed and failed economic theories i am trying to escape from in real life.

Why in 2013 does this game want to slavishly saddle itself with the economic theories of the 18th ad 19th centuries? At least give us a choice.

What if i want a resource based economy with as litle waste as possible?

How will i be able to avoid economic disasters seeing as they have happened in other areas like bank runs in the Second Life game!!!!?

Isn't it likely that the entire economy will be just as manipulatable as the real world economy????

Don't forget that Pakistan imports coal but has the third largest prove coal fields in the world after Russia and the USA

Most pasta comes from South America.

Jamaican coffee is by far the worlds best yet 90% of their crop goes to Japan in exchange for poor quality automobiles (they are!!!)

OIl revenues have had virtually no long term economic benefits in the Middle East and where it has are the odd ones out (i.e. the minority in their own lands ala UAE, Qatar, Bahrain). Even these states have questionnable economic success and huge debts.

So even if you have resources the idea that you can just start trading them is ridiculous from an economic standpoint.

Trade goes like this throughout history.

Persons agglommerate ad source materials for their own needs.

Excess LUXURY items and common TRANSPORTABLE items are traded locally.

High Value (to the state) goods are sourced by the state and then much much much later by intermediaries.

The only thing missing from the game is corporations which is the actual sustainer of capitalism. Without that legally human, non human entity there in fact is no capitalism as the drive of humanity is constantly at odds with the aims of corporations (which just means body in essence) So there cannot be a stock market without corporations. There can only really be price controls set by the state or common price agreements that are informal and accepted on good faith and common knowledge.

It just confuses me to see why this is now a fundamental aspect of a game whe n so much of the uderlying principles are based on flawed ancient economic theories that simply don't have the results to prove their own theory.

[RyanMorgan95 144]

It just confuses me to see why this is now a fundamental aspect of a game whe n so much of the uderlying principles are based on flawed ancient economic theories that simply don't have the results to prove their own theory.

I'd have to disagree, Tom. The economic and monetary system in SimCity is somewhat different to the real economic and monetary system, as there is no buying up of debt or bonds etc. and no interest on money (that's central bank stuff, I don't know a lot about that) and no futures on commodities, amongst other things. Quite simply, it's just a supply and demand mechanism with money used as a medium of exchange, or at least that's how I perceive it.

  Edited September 25, 2012 by RyanMorgan95  

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

I wish Maxis and EA all the best. I've been a sims franchise/ Will Wright fan since Simcity2000 and TheSims2D. I have no qualms with businesses justly and legally seeking profit. Hey I want SC5 to fly high and attract a few million new players to justify SC6 7 8 9 etc. The question though, will SC5 fly high enough?

Firstly, I live in one of the most connected cities in the world, have high speed connection, yet I know there are many simcity diehards in my city who do not have MMO level net connection. It makes smart business sense not to put all bet in one basket - especially when this other basket had been a proven success for the past two decades.

Some games are great as MMO, some games are meant to be played SOLO. Occasionally, a very special game could be a nice hybrid. My feeling about simcity MMO-ONLY as described thus far: it will more likely go the way of CXL/ Planet Offer...

The few Planet Offer early-comers real-estate-grab advantageous spots then soon the few dinosaurs ruled that space. Too bad a comet arrived soon after. Maintaining $ervers for a few big dinosaurs ain't profitable.

Without a doubt, everyone who posted on this and other simcity forums wanted CXL, and now SC5 to be a success. Monte Cristo had a potential gold mine, they sort of listened, yet were too smart to HEAR the SIMCITY CORE GAMERS.

MMO is not all bad. In balanced COMPETTIVE WIN/LOSE MMO games, player skills and earned merits matter; new comers get a fair go to progress and make the MMO fun and lasting. But, forcing a TYPICALLY-SINGLE-PLAY, WIN/WIN, CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN AS STRATEGY city building game into multiplayer GANG DOMINATION strategy makes the SIM game unnecessarily competitive and worse - ANTI-COMPETITIVE. Early comers form elite gangs, work out MMO quirks, land grab, corner resources, anchor monopoly, grow XXXL size (and often ugly-looking) city regions and then go on cannibalizing spree of smaller newer cities. This makes the game SUCK for newly signed up members, and those who prefer slower growing QUALITATIVE cities. Such city-cannibalizing game certainly attract the pure-muscle pure-number soul-less megalopolis emperor-wannabes. Planet Offer all over again! Or is it The-Fed-opolis all over again?

Sometimes you build it, they'll come. Sometimes, they just yawn. Sometimes, even those who came, leave fast and warn others against the trap.

The Sims is still not online - because TYPICAL sim home-builders want to be left alone to build homes and manipulate sims, and show off MY SPECIAL homes and MY SPECIAL sims to other TS fans. Simcity cannot go 100% MMO - because the TYPICAL city-builders want to be left alone to tweek the baby to perfection, manipulate sims travel path, and show off MY SPECIAL city to other simcity fans. How many TheSims player gladly permit their TS friends to re-arrange their sim-kitchen-sink? How many typical parents enjoy others rearraNging their newborn's hair, or, face?

What is the point, the most important psychological goal, the CORE VALUE OF SIMCITY, Dear Maxis?

"MY SPECIAL", is a key but overlooked aspect of gamer psychological achievement, an incomprehensible mystery to the The Suits who are incapable of creating something beautiful and SPECIAL themselves. They sincerely don't get why people much prefer showing off a "my special unique creation" instead of a "greatest most biggest most-powerful-est achievement". To them everything is about "ME and a few ON TOP", not "MY SPECIAL and MANY OTHER SPECIALS so wonderful EVERYBODY WINS". As if the most exciting Sims household sits in the biggest richest neighborhood???

Simfarm Simville Facebook sounds sexier to Suits than boring old organically-grown mod community - the true backbone of all sims franchise success. Reality is...the family and friends who are into Simville could not be bothered with simming traffic or job market or or city ecology or custom their own buildings - they fuss about un-special un-unique farm/ville plots to maintain tie to specific facebook members, to keep "appearing popular". These are not typical gamers, but socialites foremost and ULTRALIGHT gamers last. Even Simcity 3000 is too demanding for this ADHD demographic, imagine SC5 pollution management. Basically, attempt at making SC5 "simville-light" may just..psssss....

Will these popularity-seeking prince/sses suddenly and miraculously abandon their ultralight game/flirting pursuits for one of the driest, most left-right-brain taxing, most time-consuming game of all time, like, mastering the martial art of laying city grids in real-time?

Will The Suits ever fathom why "appearing BIGGEST strongest clout-est most powerful-est OWNer of the MOST cities" was NEVER the goal of the diehard fans of Simcity2000, 3000, SC4, even Societies?

Still, I want the next Simcity to make it pass first quarter and shine for a long long time!

Perhaps it is not about pleasing either multiplayer or soloplayer - the yang/extrovert and the yin/introvert of city-building strategy types. Perhaps Maxis could look into genuine DUALMODE play. By all means control piracy with frequent login verification as per SPORE. But definitely create a SOLO, OFFLINE building mode and make sure yin gamers' hard labor is SAVE-ABLE, and own-able. Call this solo/offline mode INCUBATOR MODE. This should lock in existing SC4 core group plus CXL fans, easily a few millions worthwide. Incubating implies eventual birth into the matrix, a "next" goal. So by all means, have online, multiplayer mode for the yang type gamers. A meritocratic, anti-monopoly, anti-cheating foundation is a must - deeply-conscientious city-builders are far less tolerant of MMO-mismanagement, monetary inflation, or newbie abuse.

To entice offline type to join in online, think recent facebook renovation: create TIERED OPEN PARTICIPATION option, like facebook's tiered sharing/privacy option. The yin types get to peep from behind the shell and join in at their own pace. The most basic joining option is, say, "TOURISM" mode: the MMO public get to view/tour that city but have zero control of it. Followed by different "open participation" mode - like facebook wall ("grafitti" mode?) and "open to trade X commodity" mode etc. And, ultimately, "union" mode, which allows deep level manipulation of selected traffic/ building/buysell options of cities of "union members". Like Greece situation, union membership is not permanent.

For the competitively-inclined, there are many ways to win in SC5 MMO - top10 satisfied tourist city, top10 happiest simcitizen city, top10 size city, top10 custom house/tower/park/airport/props, top10 cleanest/industrious/tax income/blah city, most proliferative mayor....

In the distant future, perhaps SC13, The Sims players could come to build their "my very special homes" and live inside the fully grown SC MMO world. Why not.

I reckon the wishes of SIMCITY CORE GAMERS, the nucleus of SC5 MMO ECOLOGY, need to be catered to for that future to happen. Like most people who could afford to pay monthly sub, my time is precious. Bottomline for me, if the game doesn't have INCUBATOR MODE with solo, offline, save options, I'm out. And if SC5 MMO has the TIERED OPEN PARTICIPATION OPTIONS, I shall venture. AND invite everyone to join.

Best of luck to Maxis team regardless.

Feedback is appreciated!

  Edited September 26, 2012 by SoftcoreGamer  

[The Pennsylvania Turnpike 252]

It sounds like the regions from SC4 now have multiplayer options and citytiles will influence each other more than before. Overall they seem good changes/options.

you are just full of wisdom. *bows down*

[CaptCity 4,753]

Let's keep it on topic folks...

[Sap59 3]

Will they be charging extra for multiplayer gaming or will it be like BF3 on Origin where there's no additional charge by EA to jump in a server and play? I like the idea of playing as a global market if in fact I choose to play multiplayer at all.

I'm slowly starting to like the game after the last trailer and am having second thoughts on purchasing it on its release but I really don't want to pay to play online for multiplayer. I definitely would play singleplayer though.

[Ando. 3]

Good points. Do you think EA will make us pay for multiplayer to be able to keep these servers up and running? Or perhaps the game cost is as high as it is so they won't have to, although that doesn't seem fair to the people that aren't going to use multiplayer.I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Screwballl 196]

Todays video stream showed that the online aspect will be "shared regions" like what they originally planned for SC4 (but dropped before final release). You play one or more cities, your friends or allowed online players take over a neighboring or other city, you can share gifts such as money, help with massive building projects, kind of like the shared resources system in CitiesXL.

Another thing to really look at is the new one will keep the region aspect like SC4, just potentially shared with others, thus the always online aspect.

The real problem will be the city sync... does your game have to be up and running for others to connect? Does it share and sync on EA servers? What happens if/when EA shuts their server down due to lack of usage (like expected)? Will it be point to point (user to user) where the game has to be running for others to connect to your region (or you to theirs)? Seems like a real snafu is coming...

edit: I saw this in an interview online:

These "great works" cannot be built if you’re trying to play a single-player game?

Our single-player is still considered multiplayer, because everything you do, you’re still part of that SimCity world. You could play by yourself in a region, but play multiple cities. So it’s really about the number of cities that it takes to achieve something like that. And, of course, playing with other players, there’s going to be some social reward mechanics there the more players you have. And it’s going to be quicker to get things done.

So it is technically possible to play single-player if you don’t want any outside interaction?

Yeah. We’re definitely catering to different playstyles. We know that there are quite a few SimCity players who do want to play alone. When you create your region, you could just set it to private and play any one of those cities by yourself. You’re jumping around between the cities and playing that way. And later on, if you want to invite a friend, you can invite a friend to your game if you’d like. We’re going to have a matchmaking system, so you can just hit play and we’ll put you in a region with other players, and you can play that way as well.

Is it possible to jump into other player-controlled cities to check it out and see how a different kind of city operates?

Yeah, you can check it out. We call it spectator mode. You can hop over there, load it up, and see it. That’s their city – you won’t be able to build anything – but you can definitely view it.

  Edited October 10, 2012 by Screwballl  

[AussieMine 2]

This was something that's been on my mind since I first saw the multiplayer announcement.

My opinion on it is that It would not be a good idea. Why? Pretty simple, people who troll. They make their city, and ruin the Global Market. Or someone can start crimes on your city by making no police in their city.

I do plan on getting SimCity when it comes out in February. But I think there will be absolutely, positively ZERO chance you will find me on multiplayer, just for that reason. I suggested a way to take the cites that completely try to ruin the global market be removed Manually (Not automatically because maybe It may think one city was trying to ruin it.

THEN you have the people who will try to make a competition or hack the game to get onto the top of the Global Market, If they say the game was Unhackable, you can bet within a day or two there will already be hacks for it. OR you have mods to do it for you.

Like I said, it may just be me. But I'm not going to go into multiplayer unless it's to privately play with friends (or people on here.)

What is your though on the multiplayer (and my opinion on the multiplayer?)

[idcaf 65]

there is no singleplayer first of all, so global market will affect you no matter what.

So yeah, I can feel your frustration. I'm not buying this game anyway, because of tile sizes, origin and all other sort of things that this game brings from hell, so I'm not even bothered anymore with constant bad news. I won't buy it and that's it. And I sincerely hope others do it aswell.

[AussieMine 2]

there is no singleplayer first of all, so global market will affect you no matter what.

Might I just say, WTF. That's stupid.

[Hamish 1,369]

You can choose who you play multiplayer with, so you can be pretty sure that they won't troll you. Even if you do play multiplayer and someone in another city does something that you don't want them to do, then isn't that like running a real city. Mayors can't really effect what goes on in the cities around them. I'm sure you will be able to communicate with the person that runs the city, just like you would if you were a mayor, so you could organise a deal of some sorts.

Im sure the global market will be able to sort itself out too. Demand for certain resources will change prices, but if the prices get too high because someone hasn't been playing by the rules, demand will decrease and the price will return to normal after a while. Maxis will also put in measures to make sure their systems don't get treated unfairly.

I'm interested in trying multiplayer out. It will be an interesting addition to the game, so I'm looking forward to trying it.

[AussieMine 2]

Well now that the way you put it I'm half tempted in wondering if they are doing that, if they are then sure for multiplayer for me.

[cirugo 1,889]

You can choose who you play multiplayer with, so you can be pretty sure that they won't troll you. Even if you do play multiplayer and someone in another city does something that you don't want them to do, then isn't that like running a real city. Mayors can't really effect what goes on in the cities around them. I'm sure you will be able to communicate with the person that runs the city, just like you would if you were a mayor, so you could organise a deal of some sorts.

Im sure the global market will be able to sort itself out too. Demand for certain resources will change prices, but if the prices get too high because someone hasn't been playing by the rules, demand will decrease and the price will return to normal after a while. Maxis will also put in measures to make sure their systems don't get treated unfairly.

I'm interested in trying multiplayer out. It will be an interesting addition to the game, so I'm looking forward to trying it.

yes, that would be great if they gave players a choice. people shouldn't support a company that won't do that.

[Hamish 1,369]

They do give you a choice, you can buy the game, or not.

[cirugo 1,889]

They do give you a choice, you can buy the game, or not.

this is true.

I'll be sure to keep informing people that they're paying full purchase price to rent a service from MAXIS.

[MegaCitySim 68]

I think they should give players real single player option which is not influenced by the global market prcies and stuff.. Also the naming problem: It is very confusing to new arrivals I have to comb through so much stuff to be sure there is no true solo or single player..

I don't mind the mp aspect, will give it a chance, but it is really weird to me that there's no real sp simcity. I mean they could still sell DLC even with sp? But as they say it is designed that way from the very beginning so real sp is deliberately excluded. Also I think they knew people will likely play by themselves so mp popularity won't matter much, they really just want to keep players online for other reasons, what exactly, no idea...

[grugor 60]

Well its really up to you if you want to interact with the global market and in fact you need to build a trade depot or port in order to do so. You could just build all the cities in a rgion yourself and manage the resources you that are available in your region without ever interacting with others.

[Screwballl 196]

Well its really up to you if you want to interact with the global market and in fact you need to build a trade depot or port in order to do so. You could just build all the cities in a rgion yourself and manage the resources you that are available in your region without ever interacting with others.

EA/Maxis has already said that even if you play it in "Private mode", they still keep track and force interaction online. I saw one quick blip on a video that showed "You have excess metals, do you want to trade them in SimCity World Market?"

Yeah just what we need users and EA spamming our cities rather than letting us build.

I think they should give players real single player option which is not influenced by the global market prcies and stuff.. Also the naming problem: It is very confusing to new arrivals I have to comb through so much stuff to be sure there is no true solo or single player..

I don't mind the mp aspect, will give it a chance, but it is really weird to me that there's no real sp simcity. I mean they could still sell DLC even with sp? But as they say it is designed that way from the very beginning so real sp is deliberately excluded. Also I think they knew people will likely play by themselves so mp popularity won't matter much, they really just want to keep players online for other reasons, what exactly, no idea...

They tried this with CitiesXL and we all saw how well that worked out.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

[Arangarx 20]

What I'd like to find out is how modding is going to work at all with a global market and leaderboards. If players are competing, the playing field has to be even. Are modifications going to be limited to aesthetics?

[troychrisostomou 0]

im confused can two people edit one city at once

[MegaCitySim 68]

I don't care mcuh for the leaderboard stuff. Everytime game companies put a normal game online and make it mp it always fails and the fans and the game will end up getting hurt. Especially because they are making the mp online a competitive strategy sort of game, basically a simcity off-shoot, they should retain the original style sp offline options. It still puzzles me why they make a city sim so strict and narrow. As if making a sim game into some chat game with some shallow challenges is gonna fly.. Why waste such a good classic on fashionable stuff...

[Plancus 17]

What I'd like to find out is how modding is going to work at all with a global market and leaderboards. If players are competing, the playing field has to be even. Are modifications going to be limited to aesthetics?

That's really the whole problem. Modding allows freedom. Forced online play limits this freedom.

Actually I'm not strictly against online play. I find the multiplayer aspect quite amusing and may yield interesting gameplay possibilities. But if that limits modding or if modding will have to go through a pre-approved Maxis App-Store-like process to come to life, I'm not so much in favour.

And well... why allow mods so soon when you have DLC? I don't expect a long interval with a nice expansion pack like Rush Hour. I do expect a flood of small "improve your city and region with this OFFICIAL new cool looking superhero hospital for $5" DLCs before basic modding support is even taken care of. I feel awful for being such a skeptic, but I doubt Maxis put any thought into a future mod support and only talked about it to appease fans of SC4 who are used to all the custom content.

That whole thing with leaderboards is to encourage people to play competitively. Selling a multitude of DLC fits well in this scenario.

Hope I'm proven wrong.

  Edited November 1, 2012 by Plancus