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rivit's Street and Rail Mods - Support Thread

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    Its in the Rail menu - just under the main NAM menus.

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    3 hours ago, rivit said:

    Its in the Rail menu - just under the main NAM menus.

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    I've located it now; my follow-up question would be if I can use this item for highways as well or if a different item could help me with that *:).

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    Hello Rivit,
    Just to thank you for sharing your source files on Streets (and others). In 10 minutes not only do I understand better how it is made (bmp files, gofsh ..), and in addition I have my custom tarsealed streets mod. "Grandiose" !!!


    What is good when you have nothing to say is that you can always pretend to listen. Anyway it does not prevent to think!

    >> My little plugins contribution << -- >> Depot | Fabrik | Testing <<

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    @Tomasu92

    AFAIK there isn't actually a dedicated tunnel for RHW (Real Highway) as it internally uses a network that Maxis didn't.  There is a Maxis Highway tunnel portal. 

    So the way I do tunnels for RHW is to either go down from RHW2->Avenue for the tunnel, or RHW4,6,8 down a 2 or 3 lane wide One Way Road tunnel 1 for each direction. With a bit of planning it will both look OK and work.

    Others may actually have invented better ways.

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    Do the TSR currently lack a single track rail RRW crossing? It is reverting back to Maxis Rails at the TSR STR crossings.

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    The crossings for RRW are all in the RUM for RRW package - this because it postdates the TSR by several years. Since I have assumed RRW users are staying in touch with NAM releases I package these crossings there. The RUM for RRW package also contains a number of other cosmetic additions for RRW, and for the NAM37 release fixed a few things that slipped through the testing net at the time.

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    Not sure what I did, but I can't get the TSR streets to use RRW crossings. All of the other crossings seem to work, but TSR has Maxis rail for the DTR/STR crossing instead of RRW. With RUM installed and I thought properly set up..

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    Its very important to have RUM for RRW load after TSR to make sure it overrides those Maxis crossings.

    Ideally this is the setup

    \Plugins  

       .  \Z___NAM  - in here is all of the real RRW stuff

       .  \Z___RVT Modds  - my stuff

       ..       \RVT Streets    - my SAMs and TSR

       ..       \RVT zRUM for RRW - the RRW and adds alters, note the z to make sure it loads after RVT Streets 

       ...              \E2 RVT Streets    -the RRW crossings for my streets -make sure you have LHD or RHD for your setup

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    Thanks, I know this reply was a while ago but I got it worked out and kinda forgot about it. I ended up having it in the wrong load order. Datpacker has been a help with figuring out load order issues as it's a fast and convenient way to see the Plugins directory in the order that SC4 loads it, which at least for me can sometimes be a pain to visualize.

     

    Anyway, I was wondering, how exactly do the SAM Stoppers in the RVT OneDrive depository work/do? I used the script to generate the DAT file but I'm not sure how to use it..

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    The principle of SAM stoppers is that it allows you to mix streets and SAM streets as you like. Normally as soon as you connect a SAM to a street then every click on the street will extend the SAM part until the street has been converted to SAM. If you are using two or more SAMs this can get pretty hard to control.

    One way to stop this is to place a road in the way as the SAM conversion will not cross a road. If you join one SAM to road, and another at the other end you can make a SAM1/SAM2 transition with a little bit of road in between. This stops the SAMs either side from competing.

    SAMStoppers_A.jpg.6217b05078002cb44a767271bf06c031.jpg

    The Stoppers in this zip are replacements for that transition so that you don't see road - however they're not useful (wont work) without the changes to the RUL file which would make SC4 use new tiles for that purpose. There's a stylistic problem with them too - SAMs are of different widths and the smooth transitions are really a matter of taste - there are more ways to do this. So that experiment didn't really get any further - there aren't really enough use cases and it just didn't really justify the work involved..  

    SAMStoppers_B.jpg.a286fbe2f0829310fdf72d5cd5d20769.jpg

    Another way to make SAM stoppers is to create Transit Enabled lots that play the same role, the texture on those lots is part of the two SAMs so it looks like an orderly transition, without having the bit of road in between. Because of the SC4Fix.dll these should now be safe to make and use - and there are some on the STEX somewhere. The textures in this zip could be used to make ones for yourself, particularly for the newer SAMs.  But keep in mind that since there are 11 SAM sets you need a lot of them to cover all combinations.

      

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    Is RVT TSR interfacing with RHW supported? the connection reverts back to vanilla streets when I attempt. 

    This isn't to do with the RVT plugins really, but SAM streets underneath elevated RHW networks is unsupported right?

     

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    Some interfacing joins are in the core TSR  set. Having said that there are only basic orthogonal and diagonal joins to RHW2. The SAM ones probably don't have those joins because to my knowledge SAM never connected with RHW. (but I could be wrong - I consider SAM minor streets and so would never connect them to RHW). As for going under RHW its quite possible that's not supported at all.  

    If the TSR/RHW connects are reverting then I would expect others things to do so as well because the files would be loading before NAM, but that doesn't sound like its the case. 

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    2 hours ago, rivit said:

    The SAM ones probably don't have those joins because to my knowledge SAM never connected with RHW. (but I could be wrong - I consider SAM minor streets and so would never connect them to RHW). As for going under RHW its quite possible that's not supported at all.  

    Exactly, SAM support is very limited to basic Road, OWR and Avenue intersections in addition to rail crossings. Connections to RHW, NWM, most NAM add-on networks and crossings with elevated networks is pretty much non-existent. OxO support exists for E-RRW over SAM and most can go under HSR using it's Puzzle Pieces.

    I've been working on adding support for El-Rail, Monorail and GLR crossings, which will get finished eventually. But it's highly unlikely SAM networks will ever have the full support of streets, because there are actually 16 SAM networks, of which 11 are active currently. Regular streets use about 500 or so pieces in total, but SAM networks use 80-100 on average. Each SAM network requires code, paths and more to make function and it would simply be too much work to cover everything. Often the neatest solution is to use a Road to intersect and have that transition to SAM after a junction or network.

    On 23/11/2019 at 3:46 AM, rivit said:

    The Stoppers in this zip are replacements for that transition so that you don't see road - however they're not useful (wont work) without the changes to the RUL file which would make SC4 use new tiles for that purpose. There's a stylistic problem with them too - SAMs are of different widths and the smooth transitions are really a matter of taste - there are more ways to do this.

    I still think there is some merit in the idea, by using a non-street network somewhere, it should be possible to do stably with minimal additional RUL2. It would be limited to having to use a small range of pieces either side of the transition though. It's something I'd like to return to one day.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    58 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    I still think there is some merit in the idea, by using a non-street network somewhere, it should be possible to do stably with minimal additional RUL2. It would be limited to having to use a small range of pieces either side of the transition though. It's something I'd like to return to one day.

    Hm... I don't know it's just an idea, but Ganaram's S-T-S (stub-to-stub) method (with the El-Rail tool - I know that street already have override option with the El-Rail tool for Tram-on-Street, so maybe monorail tool?) for the height and width transitions (it wasn't fully implemented and actually it was only working in his experiments a few years ago and recently with NAM 36 and above we were not able to replicate the same effect) could be used for something like this. Or a single click with the Road tool or OWR tool on the SAM/Street stub would do something like this. 
    I'm just thinking "loudly".

     

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    I'm responsible for the Heretic uploads a.k.a. Heretic Projects, you may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread over at SimCity 4 DevotionTyberius Lotting Experiments or here on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments OR Show Us What You're Working On thread.

    Now I'm part of the NAM Team and the RTMT Team.
    I'm also working on some preservation and reorganization projects the behalf of non-anymore-active-developers and with the permission of the Staffs both on STEX and LEX. Current projects: SimcityPolska Restoration and WMP (WorkingManProduction) Restoration.

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    Actually, there are two other ways. One lets you connect any SAM with any other SAM, the other SAM with street. I've never heard anyone talking about them, but with me, they work, I've tried both and I'm using them quite frequently. The visual results are not always pleasing, especially with the SAM 3 routes, but that's something I can't change, anyway.

    1. Place two different SAM starter pieces on adjacent tiles so they form a straight route. This only works if you can accept that you are limited to straight routes at the part of the transition between two SAM routes - but they won't override each other.

    2. For connecting SAM to street, just use a FLUP puzzle piece at the place where you want to have the last bit of default street. It will prevent the SAM from spreading beyond it. By resorting to the Rural Roads plugin, you can also do this with the straight SAM 3/4/5/7 pieces.

    5e1532ca50d7f_ConnectingSAM.jpg.1498bc6ddb3f6540784e042882306e04.jpg

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    11241036 Lotting/Modding Thread - Support for all of my uploaded plugins

    Visit my CJ Maxiland, where I'm taking on an enlarged version of Timbuktu!

     

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    10 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

    I don't know it's just an idea, but Ganaram's S-T-S (stub-to-stub) method (with the El-Rail tool - I know that street already have override option with the El-Rail tool for Tram-on-Street, so maybe monorail tool?) for the height and width transitions (it wasn't fully implemented and actually it was only working in his experiments a few years ago and recently with NAM 36 and above we were not able to replicate the same effect)

    I think for this to work we'd need to completely suppress the auto-connect code in the game, at least that was my understanding. I totally see the merit in this, however practically speaking, it's a big change that brings much work and potentially other issues.

    There is nothing to stop us adding RUL2 code that handles one SAM network next to another. Care needs to be taken to prevent that becoming an unstable mess though, but in theory it can be done. I think that's probably easier than using a stub to handle it, because you always need to avoid conflicts with any network that interacts with SAM.

    9 hours ago, 11241036 said:

    1. Place two different SAM starter pieces on adjacent tiles so they form a straight route. This only works if you can accept that you are limited to straight routes at the part of the transition between two SAM routes - but they won't override each other.

    I've been aware of this method, provided you don't drag a street between the starters it works, if not great visually. I didn't know of the FLUP method, but again it lacks visual continuity of a proper transition texture.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    On 1/7/2020 at 2:55 PM, rivit said:

    Some interfacing joins are in the core TSR  set. Having said that there are only basic orthogonal and diagonal joins to RHW2. The SAM ones probably don't have those joins because to my knowledge SAM never connected with RHW. (but I could be wrong - I consider SAM minor streets and so would never connect them to RHW). As for going under RHW its quite possible that's not supported at all.  

    If the TSR/RHW connects are reverting then I would expect others things to do so as well because the files would be loading before NAM, but that doesn't sound like its the case. 

    Untitled.png.1c21429e01fee42ca31f58709d3636f3.png

    This is the only reversion I've noticed..

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    Well found @junspud and apologies for my earlier dodgy response which was wrong.

    On the strength of your pic I went down the burrow into the RHW2.dats and it appears these and quite a few others have totally escaped my TSR mod. By the looks of it I have not updated the RHW tiles since 2010 and certainly not since I modded GoFSH to look through the .dats itself.

    In RHW2 I found 13 x 4 wealths  in US textures and 16? x 7 wealths in EU textures that are missing from the TSR mod. This means a little bit of work for me to mod the tiles, make the Alphas and regenerate the final tiles so please give me a few days. Since I haven't done these for a couple of years it will take me a bit of effort to get my Photoshop skills into fluency again.

    While I'm at it I will also check to see if there are any other RHWx-Street joins to make.  Depending on how big it all ends up I may rerelease TSR.

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    Well it turns out these weren't too bad to make so they are to be found in the archive two posts further up 

    Here you will find,

    a)  the sources and a GoFSH script should you use your own grasses and want to make these match

    b) standard MAXIS grasses for the Euro and US versions in _Release. Drop the right one into the RVT Streets folder where all the others are.

    In the end there is only one extra texture in the EURO set - a diagonal-diagonal join which doesn't work in game (in the yellow highlight below) - maybe a NAM expert can resolve this, and also why EURO has 6 wealthings and US only 3.

    Hereunder a pic of some of the (more exotic) joins in the EURO variety

    RHW2-TSR.jpg.970b5393c6bf777c7a6c0cd19acfa63f.jpg

     


      Edited by rivit  

    File has been updated see 2 posts below
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    On 1/13/2020 at 2:56 PM, rivit said:

    Well found @junspud and apologies for my earlier dodgy response which was wrong.

    This means a little bit of work for me to mod the tiles, make the Alphas and regenerate the final tiles so please give me a few days. Since I haven't done these for a couple of years it will take me a bit of effort to get my Photoshop skills into fluency again.

    No worries of course very cool of you to update it like that. I didn't go into it expecting any updates or revisions or anything just confirmation lol.

     

    On 1/13/2020 at 2:56 PM, rivit said:

     

    While I'm at it I will also check to see if there are any other RHWx-Street joins to make.  Depending on how big it all ends up I may rerelease TSR.

    It slipped my mind originally, but support for the single-lane OWR would also be a great feature, currently it reverts to vanilla as well. I think it would probably be more universally useful.

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    On 16/01/2020 at 1:12 AM, junspud said:

    It slipped my mind originally, but support for the single-lane OWR would also be a great feature, currently it reverts to vanilla as well. I think it would probably be more universally useful.

    Such pieces don't exist for SAM, in fact there is no SAM support for any NWM connections. The best way to handle such situations is to run a road through the intersecting NWM and connect the SAM streets to that a tile or more back from the intersection.

    For the main street network, only a few supported intersections exist, but I'm pretty sure they we're all present in the Urban TSR mod.

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    Head over to my Lot and Mod Shack to keep abreast of my latest developments.

    Do you like custom textures, but don't like all the work involved creating them?, take a look at the Texture Automation options here. Change the look and feel of your transit networks, with the minimum of effort, for example customised versions of my Sidewalk NAM (SWN) and Terrain Grass NAM (TGN) mods, and much more besides.

    New to the NAM? Check out my tutorials on YouTube. Latest upload: How to: RHW - MHO Roundabout Interchanges. (Nov 25).

    p.s. - I'm MGB over on SC4D and a member of the NAM team.

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    I've now made the MIS, RHW-3 and RHW-4 TSR joins so they are to be found here  in my archive  202001 TSR Addendum RHWx.zip

    the RHW2 zip has been removed and is in the above zip so now one complete RHW set.

    Here you will find,

    a)  the sources and a GoFSH script should you use your own grasses and want to make these match

    b) standard MAXIS grasses for the Euro and US versions in _Release. Drop the right one into the RVT Streets folder where all the others are.

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    Yes apparently Single Lane-ORW already does work for TSR, I'm not sure what I was talking about, some sort of mistake on my end.

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    I just wanted to bring to your attention in case you'd be interested in knowing;

    Untitled.png.5d9ebc511c99d3ae1ed2d3b375a6f44c.png

    Of course this mod is under the WIP folder so one wouldn't expect it to be complete. This happens with the SAM6 replacement (the narrow version) when using US textures next to agriculture zones. Apologies if it's an intentional aesthetic choice or you're already aware.

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    Hi @junspud,

    yes it is deliberate as these roads are my Oz Country roads which show up in Ag Zones

    To suppress them I would go into the SAM6 .dat and remove these textures with the Reader: 

    0x7AB50E44-1abe787d-5E520674 (..3210)   SAM6-Road X intersection     (Num 330 to 334)

    0x7AB50E44-1abe787d-5E550674(..3210)   SAM6-Road T intersection      (Num 725 to 729)

    you'll then get the default joins,

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    Currently: Viewing File: Ukrainian Flag (Day of Peace Add-on)
     

    Hi!

    @rivitI ran into an interesting thing with DataNode recently. I was told, that the Diagonal Bridge Enabler (DBE) has got its default folder name ~Diagonal Bridge Enabler (Temporary Files), to ensure that it loads first in the plugin folder. It came up because in the new NAM in the RRW part there are some stuffs which should load before the rest of the rail contents and the ~ character was used to make it sure, but I found that it actually loads last in the main raikl folder after everything. So I checked with the DataNode and it shows the same, that it loads last within the NAM/Rail folder. I asked @Eggman121about it, he mentioned the DBE, which is supposed to load first in the Plugin folder, but according to DataNode it loads actually very-very last after all the "z" folders (doesn't matter how manny underscores I have). So I'm confused about what changed, or what is what now?

    Thanks for any help or advice in advance! 

    - Tyberius

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    I'm responsible for the Heretic uploads a.k.a. Heretic Projects, you may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread over at SimCity 4 DevotionTyberius Lotting Experiments or here on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments OR Show Us What You're Working On thread.

    Now I'm part of the NAM Team and the RTMT Team.
    I'm also working on some preservation and reorganization projects the behalf of non-anymore-active-developers and with the permission of the Staffs both on STEX and LEX. Current projects: SimcityPolska Restoration and WMP (WorkingManProduction) Restoration.

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    I would expect it to load last - the collation is page 1, international character codes (so characters 32 to 127)   32 is Space, 48 is 0, 65 =A, 97 is a,  95 is _ , 127 is  ~ and then higher codes.

    Since most folders/files are named with letters or numbers the lowest code I would think is memorable, both valid in DOS names and in the range 32-47 before those is  # hash  hex 23  or chr$(35).  (on the 3 key on the keyboard) . This should sort before everything in Windows and load before other things in plugins.

    Remember files in the plugins root will load before the folders in plugins so putting it there (assuming its one file) should also work. 

    Another way would be to putting the DBE stuff in a folder in the SimCity Plugins folder which always loads before USER plugins.

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    Thanks @rivit for the information.

    I really appreciate you dropping in to explain the Load order.

    This should help us get a better understanding and thus a solution to the Maxis vs RRW setup.

    Much Appreciated.

    -eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

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