NAM: Requests - 2nd Edition

[MandelSoft 2,770]

We have ideas to solve this issue. Our first idea was using SIPs (Specialised Intersection Pieces), but lately, we might want to go for a INRUL trick that uses roads right before the intersection, but it masks it as a Oneway Road intersection. This way, you actually can have functional stoplights on a OWR intersection

[ZeaLitY 1]

I'm 99% positive this has been asked somewhere but cursory searches haven't revealed much and I'm about to have to go to work. Are elevated L2 on-ramps planned for RHW-8X?

Thanks for NAM 31.1 by the way; I can finally make my gritty ghetto city a reality.

[Wiimeiser 445]

Can we get NWM Flexramps? And can someone please comment on my previous requests as well?

[Tarkus 6,932]

I'm 99% positive this has been asked somewhere but cursory searches haven't revealed much and I'm about to have to go to work. Are elevated L2 on-ramps planned for RHW-8X?

Thanks for NAM 31.1 by the way; I can finally make my gritty ghetto city a reality.

You're welcome for NAM 31.1, and to answer your question, they're something we'd like to add at some point, but the main reason why a lot of the elevated networks don't have on/off-ramps has to do with the fact that they're much more difficult to make than ground-level versions, due to the fact that they require special models to be made.

 

Can we get NWM Flexramps? And can someone please comment on my previous requests as well?

 

NWM Flexramps would be a different beast.  The existing RHW ones are INRUL based, and because you'd be dealing with RHW plus another network, it'd require a combination of RUL1 and RUL2 (which can be done--see FlexSPUI--but harder to stabilize).  They also technically wouldn't be NWM Flexramps, either--they'd be Road and OWR Flexramps, which could be overridden to NWM networks.  That's something I'd imagine we'll look into at some point.

 

As far as your requests on the previous page, there aren't any real plans for any of those at this time.  Intersections-on-curves are starting to become an area of interest, but a specialized one involving an override network is a different story.

 

-Tarkus

[akbear 3]

Now that most of the dust from 31 has settled, could we possibly get the option to have walled viaducts instead of open and pillared ramps and on-slopes, or possibly an expansion to the rail viaducts with road, OWR and RHW pieces?  Or perhaps an add-on with pieces similar to buddybud's viaducts that would also satisfy those wanting to build parkways and turnpikes without resorting to sunken overlays?

 

 

One other thing I'd really like to see is either a road/RHW or AVE-2/RHW junction or puzzle piece (similar to the MHW euro entrance/exit ramp or some of the roundabout interfaces that include a directional guiding island) preferably one tile but no more than three which would be great advantage to those of us needing some compact interchange solutions

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Good luck on this.  I don't think the dust has settled yet on V31.  They are saying 31.2 in "imminent".  However, I second your motion.

[aaaling 83]

Now that most of the dust from 31 has settled, could we possibly get the option to have walled viaducts instead of open and pillared ramps and on-slopes, or possibly an expansion to the rail viaducts with road, OWR and RHW pieces?  Or perhaps an add-on with pieces similar to buddybud's viaducts that would also satisfy those wanting to build parkways and turnpikes without resorting to sunken overlays?

 

 

One other thing I'd really like to see is either a road/RHW or AVE-2/RHW junction or puzzle piece (similar to the MHW euro entrance/exit ramp or some of the roundabout interfaces that include a directional guiding island) preferably one tile but no more than three which would be great advantage to those of us needing some compact interchange solutions

 

Do you know where we can get those pieces? I really like them, and want to use them in my cities.

[akbear 3]

 

 

Do you know where we can get those pieces? I really like them, and want to use them in my cities.

 

 

I came across them once on an oriental site after trying dozens of outdated links in buddybud related threads here and at sc4d in a sunken wall set, but I have no clue where that was

 

EDIT:  What ever happened to Xloxadoria's Viaduct Replacement Mod (retaining walls for NAM)?

It certainly looked promising. 

 

[Tarkus 6,932]

It was a proof of concept from almost 5 years ago.  It hit a wall (no pun intended) due to T21 exemplar complexities.

 

-Tarkus

[sandy0099 0]

can RHW tool have a shorcut. is this something that can be done on my side or something that cant be done at all(exe limitation). its one of the most used in my game so it really needed a shortcut.

[GeometryMath Algebra 614]

I have an idea for future RHWs. Since there's a low chance that there will be a RHW-14S and 12C in the future, why not make cosmetic accel/decel lane puzzle pieces for the RHW-12S and 10C similar to the narrow RHW-4 exits (excluding the ramp overplops)? This will remedy the issue of lack of accel decel lanes for the RHW-12S and 10C in the future. Can this be in NAM 32?

[akbear 3]

It was a proof of concept from almost 5 years ago.  It hit a wall (no pun intended) due to T21 exemplar complexities.

 

-Tarkus

 

I suspected as much, that's why I thought an expansion of the rail viaducts to go along with existing or modified puzzle pieces for the actual bridge parts might be a viable solution

[MandelSoft 2,770]

I have an idea for future RHWs. Since there's a low chance that there will be a RHW-14S and 12C in the future, why not make cosmetic accel/decel lane puzzle pieces for the RHW-12S and 10C similar to the narrow RHW-4 exits (excluding the ramp overplops)? This will remedy the issue of lack of accel decel lanes for the RHW-12S and 10C in the future. Can this be in NAM 32?

This could be done in theory, but since I'm the one who's responsible for all cosmetic pieces, this will probably have to wait for a while, since I'm busy with re-texturing

It was a proof of concept from almost 5 years ago.  It hit a wall (no pun intended) due to T21 exemplar complexities.

 

-Tarkus

 

I suspected as much, that's why I thought an expansion of the rail viaducts to go along with existing or modified puzzle pieces for the actual bridge parts might be a viable solution

Then you have probably no idea how hard it is to implement True3D transit models into SimCity 4. It's pretty labour intensive and it has been a structural problem ever since the NAM came into existence.

[akbear 3]

 

It was a proof of concept from almost 5 years ago.  It hit a wall (no pun intended) due to T21 exemplar complexities.

 

-Tarkus

 

I suspected as much, that's why I thought an expansion of the rail viaducts to go along with existing or modified puzzle pieces for the actual bridge parts might be a viable solution

 

Then you have probably no idea how hard it is to implement True3D transit models into SimCity 4. It's pretty labour intensive and it has been a structural problem ever since the NAM came into existence.

 

Being that modelling got so far past my comprehension and hardware capabilities over the years, I don't doubt the challenges.  On the other hand, there is always a new generation of fresh minds, new ideas and new methods based upon the years of knowledge and past advancements, that it's certainly not impractical to bounce the idea around again or think that someone would be up to the challenge of revisiting a project that hit the wall. 

 

Obviously I don't know the specifics of the wall Xloxadoria's viaduct replacement mod hit, but if it was related to the lighting or wealth stages, it's a shame to scrap such a useful project over some things that could be worked around or just don't do everything, and perhaps it would also spur someone to break down that wall if the missing elements bothered someone enough. 

 

If I had the knowhow and the equipment, I certainly know I'd be dabbling with it trying to find the solution.  But more than anything, my suggestions are not out of ingnorance to the amount of work and time that goes into a project, and certainly not with lack of respect and appreciation, but rather an encouragement to creativity without which we are again locked into a box of rules that we have fought against since this franchise emerged a quarter century ago. 

 

I really do hope this conversation does spark some minds to revisit some abandoned ideas and cause some of them to become realities, it's a shame for all that work to fade away along with what's already been lost simply because the files are no longer available or buried off in such an obscure site that no one can even find them anymore.

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

can RHW tool have a shorcut.

 

As far as I can tell, no.

 

could we possibly get the option to have walled viaducts instead of open and pillared ramps and on-slopes

There's also the other key thing to consider: Those are out-of-scope items, and aesthetics like that are best left to third parties. Reason: Some people prefer having something else, or nothing else, and having it integrated into the NAM implies that it's a standard feature, which can be a deterrent for simplicity users.

[akbear 3]

 

can RHW tool have a shorcut.

 

As far as I can tell, no.

 

could we possibly get the option to have walled viaducts instead of open and pillared ramps and on-slopes

There's also the other key thing to consider: Those are out-of-scope items, and aesthetics like that are best left to third parties. Reason: Some people prefer having something else, or nothing else, and having it integrated into the NAM implies that it's a standard feature, which can be a deterrent for simplicity users.

 

I think you might have inadvertently brought up the catch.  Anything road related needs to be NAM compliant to be useful to most players, but anything out-of-scope languishes since it needs the talents of the NAM team to comply.  So that leaves third parties mostly to the building and eye-candy realm.  I've seen so many ideas shot down because they are told it's not realistic, practical or appealing to a wide enough audience, and I think that's sad since this is a game of creativity, uniquness and implementing ideas.  A jigsaw puzzle only has one solution, that's why we're playing with tinker toys instead.

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7912.0 is another example of an attempt at this, and there certainly is no lack of enthusiasm or players wishing for such a project to become a reality.

[z1 566]

Anything road related needs to be NAM compliant to be useful to most players...

 

But that doesn't mean they can't be built completely outside the NAM.  Transit stations are an excellent example of this.

[akbear 3]

 

Anything road related needs to be NAM compliant to be useful to most players...

 

But that doesn't mean they can't be built completely outside the NAM.  Transit stations are an excellent example of this.

 

wish I could do those too, I'd sure love to have a 1x1 sandstone GLR station with just a centre fancy light pole

[Tarkus 6,932]

I have an idea for future RHWs. Since there's a low chance that there will be a RHW-14S and 12C in the future, why not make cosmetic accel/decel lane puzzle pieces for the RHW-12S and 10C similar to the narrow RHW-4 exits (excluding the ramp overplops)? This will remedy the issue of lack of accel decel lanes for the RHW-12S and 10C in the future. Can this be in NAM 32?

 

The future of the 12S and 10C themselves are uncertain at this point.  At this point, I don't see the 12S or 10C being enabled in NAM 32, let alone any sort of cosmetic pieces for them.  As they currently stand, they are essentially cosmetic networks, and they add a fair bit of bulk to the code.  Many of the line count savings made between NAM 31.0 and 31.1 were because I pulled out the code for the 12S and 10C, including their crosslinks with other networks.

 

From the looks of things, a lot of the focus going forward with the RHW in the post-P57 era is going to be with improving and expanding the FLEX items and fleshing out the existing 34 networks (yes, there's really 34).

 

Being that modelling got so far past my comprehension and hardware capabilities over the years, I don't doubt the challenges.  On the other hand, there is always a new generation of fresh minds, new ideas and new methods based upon the years of knowledge and past advancements, that it's certainly not impractical to bounce the idea around again or think that someone would be up to the challenge of revisiting a project that hit the wall. 

 

 

Obviously I don't know the specifics of the wall Xloxadoria's viaduct replacement mod hit, but if it was related to the lighting or wealth stages, it's a shame to scrap such a useful project over some things that could be worked around or just don't do everything, and perhaps it would also spur someone to break down that wall if the missing elements bothered someone enough. 

 

If I had the knowhow and the equipment, I certainly know I'd be dabbling with it trying to find the solution.  But more than anything, my suggestions are not out of ingnorance to the amount of work and time that goes into a project, and certainly not with lack of respect and appreciation, but rather an encouragement to creativity without which we are again locked into a box of rules that we have fought against since this franchise emerged a quarter century ago. 

 

I really do hope this conversation does spark some minds to revisit some abandoned ideas and cause some of them to become realities, it's a shame for all that work to fade away along with what's already been lost simply because the files are no longer available or buried off in such an obscure site that no one can even find them anymore.

 

 

The main problem Xyloxadoria ran into was conflicting T21s.  There were multiple T21 setups already in place for those pieces, mostly to handle streetlight placement, and they conflicted with the T21s to place the walls.

 

I think you might have inadvertently brought up the catch.  Anything road related needs to be NAM compliant to be useful to most players, but anything out-of-scope languishes since it needs the talents of the NAM team to comply.  So that leaves third parties mostly to the building and eye-candy realm.  I've seen so many ideas shot down because they are told it's not realistic, practical or appealing to a wide enough audience, and I think that's sad since this is a game of creativity, uniquness and implementing ideas.  A jigsaw puzzle only has one solution, that's why we're playing with tinker toys instead.

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7912.0 is another example of an attempt at this, and there certainly is no lack of enthusiasm or players wishing for such a project to become a reality.

 

 

The reason there's one NAM Team and not a bunch of smaller transit-modding teams and individual creators is because of the game's file architecture basically requires centralized management of the Network RUL files, in order to ensure interoperability of all the various network puzzle pieces and draggable network items out there.  If a project does not entail modifying the RUL files, it doesn't have to be fully coordinated by the NAM Team.  Many NAM Team members do work on items like stations or cosmetic things that don't require RUL modification (and thus, centralization), on their own time, fitting with their own personal interests as to what they'd like to see in-game (e.g. MandelSoft with the textures, z1's work with RTMT), and while we do assist third parties with these sorts of things, it's simply not realistic or feasibly possible for us to automatically assume all responsibilities for these third parties (e.g. maintenance, tech support, expansion whenever there's new NAM features, etc.) just because their work intersects with ours in some way.  We're still human.

 

As far as the CWRIB project you linked, it's also of that same vintage--2009.  The guy who created it was last around the community nearly 4 years ago.  The process of walling the viaducts like that is no small feat, and there's a reason there's not much out there on that front.

 

-Tarkus

[akbear 3]

 

The reason there's one NAM Team and not a bunch of smaller transit-modding teams and individual creators is because of the game's file architecture basically requires centralized management of the Network RUL files, in order to ensure interoperability of all the various network puzzle pieces and draggable network items out there.  If a project does not entail modifying the RUL files, it doesn't have to be fully coordinated by the NAM Team.  Many NAM Team members do work on items like stations or cosmetic things that don't require RUL modification (and thus, centralization), on their own time, fitting with their own personal interests as to what they'd like to see in-game (e.g. MandelSoft with the textures, z1's work with RTMT), and while we do assist third parties with these sorts of things, it's simply not realistic or feasibly possible for us to automatically assume all responsibilities for these third parties (e.g. maintenance, tech support, expansion whenever there's new NAM features, etc.) just because their work intersects with ours in some way.  We're still human.

 

As far as the CWRIB project you linked, it's also of that same vintage--2009.  The guy who created it was last around the community nearly 4 years ago.  The process of walling the viaducts like that is no small feat, and there's a reason there's not much out there on that front.

 

-Tarkus

 

which pretty much confirms that anything road related has to be done by or with the coöperation of the NAM team. 

 

The closest I have found on the subject were these sets http://www.bripizza.net/sc4/1103overpass/1103overpass.html which seemingly dealt with the lightpole conundrum by placing them on the ground, and these which only make a foundation wall by lowering terrain after they are placed and incomplete (as well as incomplete for anything more than bridging a gap) as the pathing once corrected still breaks on a non-surface connection (though it still seems to work).  So it's kind of like a choice of one style that works, but doesn't allow for variation, and the other that does allow variation with severe limitations but really doesn't work well.

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

The closest I have found on the subject were these sets http://www.bripizza.net/sc4/1103overpass/1103overpass.html which seemingly dealt with the lightpole conundrum by placing them on the ground, and these

Those aren't even puzzle pieces. Those are TE-lots, and they do nothing to any existing feature of the NAM. They're instead BAT-based versions of puzzle pieces, which isn't an ideal way of creating puzzle pieces.

[MandelSoft 2,770]

OK, there are a few things I'd like to add:

- True 3D models are quite specific to make. This is not like a BAT, but more like automata and puzzle pieces. Actually, you need to re-work the overpasses themselves rather than T21 them. Why do you need them for the thing you want to have? The answer: slopes. BATs have the habbit to look really weird on slopes, especially on diagonal slopes. Though Xylox's slope walls may look OK on flat ground, on slopes they will look absolutely horrendous on slopes.

- We've never shut these projects down (believe me, I've seen worse in other communities. See Euro Truck Simulator 2 and its map development). People usually run into problems or they don't have enough motivation to complete the daunting task. For me, this was the case with the Highway ReStyling Mod, an old relic from 2009, where I had to face editing huge amounts of Maxis highway models... by having to change the model vertex by vertex by inserting the right numerical values! That is really tiresome. Fortunately, for Project Symphony, I had 3D Studio Max to help out, but even still, that was also pretty daunting and labour intensive and sometimes the results were not all too consistent.

- The Euro Textures have been developed outside the NAM itself for years! The NAM 31 was the first version to actually include them. This is an example of a third party project that actually was released. But it was hard to motivate myself to convert thousands of textures...

You can scream from the sidelines, or you can read tutorials and try to do it yourself. That's how I rolled into the NAM Team. I didn't sit and wait; I took action.

Best,

Maarten

[Wiimeiser 445]

So the 12S and 10C won't make it after all?

 

 

I'm hoping for more pieces for Symphony as well.

[akbear 3]

Maarten, I really do think that last bit was uncalled for, I wrote nothing that justified that response.  As I said, I have the limitations of older hardware and that I felt modelling has gone well beyond my own abilities over the years. 

 

That said, If I offended anyone, or ruffled too many feathers, I humbly apologise, and I'll quietly slink back to my corner where I belong.

[MandelSoft 2,770]

Well, I may be wrong, but the previous posts seem to be a bit demanding to me and also it came across calling things to us we should do without having any idea what we actually need to do behind the scenes to achieve that. That being said, I may have been a bit harsh,

Also, if you can actually run SimCity 4 with the NAM 31, some basic modeling tools like gMax will work too on your PC. I could BAT just fine two computers ago. (FYI, it was a Windows XP PC where saving just one city could take up ten minutes... and that was just saving the city! With the NAM and not so many plugins, back in 2008!). And the iLive's Reader even has way lower system requirements. So you can give it a shot by just trying these programs

[Bundy_77 8]

I don't no if you guy's use them else were in the world, but here in Australia almost all the highways have been updated to steal cable or

compressive steal barriers (much like the ones they use on the NASCAR tracks to absorb high speed impacts), you hardly see concrete any more.

 

Could you do something with those dam ugly and dated concrete barriers on the highways,

 

 

else thanks for the NAM

[Tarkus 6,932]

 

which pretty much confirms that anything road related has to be done by or with the coöperation of the NAM team. 

 

 

If it involves modifying the network placement RUL files--in effect, modifying the NAM itself--yes.  If it's a mod to change the appearance of the textures, barriers, pillars/pylons or streetlights on the existing pieces, no.

 

So the 12S and 10C won't make it after all?

 

 

I'm hoping for more pieces for Symphony as well.

 

The 12S and 10C are on indefinite hold.  That's not to say they're completely dead in the water, but given the nature of how they fit into the project, and the issues that presents, it's more productive for us to focus elsewhere, with items that will have greater utility.  It's kind of a similar thing with the AVE-8/TLA-9.

 

As far as Symphony, I don't know what the plans are there.  The big project that is shaping up for NAM 32 is expansion to Dual-Networking, including the long-awaited addition of El-Rail-over-Avenue.  The RHW project is likely to become less of a developmental focus going forward.  P57 basically put all the pieces into place, and it's mostly a matter of refinement and filling in gaps.  Likely, it'll entail lots of FLEX work in the near term.  I'm looking into a few things on the NWM/TuLEPs side of the equation, as well as (surprisingly) some T-RAM stuff.

 

-Tarkus

[Wiimeiser 445]

Found these lines while randomly exploring. Candidate for RHW-2 TuLEP pieces?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In order to produce a system that is everything to everybody we'd need at least a 128-bit machine and a recompile of the kernel for the game.

[Magneto 316]

Would it be possible for the NAM team to release an elevated rail prop that matches with moonlinght's alternate implementation of elevated rail, but without the ground texture? Thanks for considering...