hkabat-forum-threads Amthaak BATS Thread

[Jack_wilds 550]

...it made a better difference

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Very beautiful my friend! Down to every last detail.

[gigacoaster 4]

oooo! ooo!

[Amthaak 1,501]

I am still working on the day scene , and I hope to makesoon  a new update with something nearly accomplished! I made also some work on the night scene , in particular on the fountain! hereafter the result!

[gutterclub 2,729]

I think that looks quite stunning now, for me it's now looking like I expected the night version to look after so much detail went into the day version.

[Evillions 552]

PLEASE release this now!!! Stop teasing me with this great building! I WANT IT NOAW!!!

-Sorry for that behaviour, I just think it's good as is right now. I really don't think there is any need for improvement right?

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Purdy lights.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Nice lights, best yet IMO.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Yes, a very great bat indeed keep it up Amthaak.

[Roger51 381]

I would say that the night scene is done!

[Vlasky 1,803]

Every update bring better and better look

[Amthaak 1,501]

Thank you so much! Time is coming...!

I had to rework on day scene and finish the night scene before re scale to 95%! Here after day pic!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wow!!! I really see that you are trying your best to make this perfect or more than perfect, I hope to see this bat a the end of the line some day. I really hope to see some other great bats come after this that are just as perfect as this bat.

I wonder how lond did it take to make the building in real life, if you have taking a longer time to make this bat than the real building being under construction then your bat should look a lot better than the real thing, this bat should be worth two in the bush, lol.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Aaron! your patience will be awarded...!

Last update for day scene with the four views! Next step if no further details to change ( your option, all of you who have help me in this task!)

Resize day scene to 95% from original (actual is 90%)

refit the lites details in nite scene

try to make to "complex" lods to integrate in the lot the TE option!

export

send to T wrecks for lotting

upload to stex!

Take holidays...(one week!)

[Vlasky 1,803]

Oh la la! Great news.

It look great to me and I have nothing to object. Can't wait to download it. Congrats on amazing and hard work!

[SimFox 802]

yep it is nearly done!

Although I do have on slight issue with it, namely weathering on the walls. First of all from any considerable distance - like say zoom5 one the walls do (in real one) appear pretty much solid color. If you don't like that it is fine too, but the variations/weathering should be both more subtle and, most importantly should tile quite so obvious.. Right now it really stands out, particularly on North and side views...'

Another thing is the texture of the roof of the wings/old bits of the building - it, basically suffer from same "photoshop" type over smudging. All the variations you have on it are of just two solid color plus all the edges are artificially smooth gradients. As a result it looks like a texture in 20y yo computer game, rather than anything real. When dirtying your texture you should use both brush with hard and broken edges and set to use some random color variations. Or just find some nice dirt map and use it, or it's pieces to blend it various shades of dirt.

These are small (well compared to all that modeling) points, but ones that do affect final look a lot.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Vlasky: I am afraid I have some ameliorations to do...!

SimFox: Very valid points, "the devil hides himself in the details"!

Well, in order to be sure that I understand your points , can you confirm if for the first point (weathering issue) you are talking about 1 or 2 or 1 and 2, and the the second point , if you are talking about 3 or 4 or 3 and 4!

As usual I am not surprised of your comments maybe a little bit scared when I see that you add a comment, but not surprised...! and thanks again for your "coaching"!

[SimFox 802]

I'm sorry to scare you... I sort of expect the effect and do think 10 times before adding one. I hate to be the only one who actually "notice" some problems with this model in the choir singing Hallelujah. Singing regardless of just about anything. There is nothing wrong with prizing good work, but situation when comments simply turn into generic, not really related to actual work "oh-ah"s is a very bad sign, bad for the community and it's development - something one would expect at the court of Nero or Kim Il Sung.

Now to the points you've defined.

1 & 2 - yes both.Tile like regularity at "1" and repeated variation at "2". It is not too noticeable at the front (south) view you normally post but really jumps at you at the side views.

3 & 4.

Here I only meant "3". I must say that I believe that your new roof texture is a significant step back from what you have had there in the first place. Random splotches on the new one are neither realistic (both in terms of representing real building and some hypothetical building) no good looking. Plus color is all wrong as well.

Additionally the material properties (and this also covers "4") are nothing like what they should be.

On the previous page you have had a shot of the roof, why didn't you use that as a guide? Of course you should first fix teh exposure problem with it (it was exposed for sky rather than for the building itself). It shows both reflectivity of the surfaces and they general color/brightness.

Also you have had this image:

as reference. Do you see the contrast between actual roof and the "framing"? Why did you decide to make all in same dark/greenish gray?

PS.

BTW, I leave my critique only at those threads where I see creator had shown enough perseverance and talent, had proven that he/she is capable of growth...

[Amthaak 1,501]

SimFox: thank you for thinking that I can ameliorate, and thanks for replying so fast, it is really clearer for me! 

You ask why I choose to use the same color for the top of the roof and the structure, and the answer is because this pic:

and this one too:

Of course both are maybe were taken with a cloudy sky, which reduce a lot the shadows we have on your pic. It's a mistake I did, as I should think more of the game "conditions", I'll follow your advise and use as reference your pic!

[SimFox 802]

Well, they might have repainted the roof as well, but combining all 3 pictures I think it is possible to conclude that the difference could be explained by different type and magnitude of reflectivity of surfaces as well (in addition to the difference in color). The "frame" is clad in some polished stone or brushed metal... It is hard to tell from these pictures. But it does have significantly glossier reflectivity to it. The rooftop, on the other hand is much more defused. Such surface(defused) will look brighter under direct light than more glossy one. On the other hand under cloudy condition that glossy surface would reflect bright sky and appear brighter because of this. This is clearly visible at first picture:

1. here both surfaces are exposed to open sky

2. here sky reflections are blocked by the building itself. In these conditions the color difference is quite obvious... Anyway here it is:

Under sunny conditions this difference will be much stronger, because clear sky is darker than overcast one and direct light determining the brightness of defused surface is much stronger. Apart from being more accurate I believe it will also look better if it would have more defined colors...

[psander5 195]

Originally posted by: SimFox

I'm sorry to scare you... I sort of expect the effect and do think 10 times before adding one. I hate to be the only one who actually "notice" some problems with this model in the choir singing Hallelujah.quote>

Don't worry SimFix! (*SimFox < that was a genuine typo, but I thought I'd leave it there because of its relevance to this comment    I'm sure many of us rely on your keen eye, and are grateful for your input! I certainly include myself in that statement.  The problem is, once a BAT gets into the higher end of the quality scale, you begin to run out of people who have sharp enough eyes to spot the finer detail issues.   There's also the point that some people might find it difficult to criticise a BAT that's already way above one's own level of ability - not that anyone should let that stop them. 

You also have to consider that most game-players or non-BATers are perfectly happy with 'good' quality BATs, so there's a certain 'blindness' to the finer technical details of a model once it gets to the 'stupendous' level, and that's perfectly natural in my view.  It's always nice to have a few "ooh-ah" comments as a confidence booster in with the criticism... so long as one doesn't disregard the criticism because of the "ooh-ah's" 

PS: I'm not trying to criticise or discourage your approach at all - It's essential to making top quality work... I'm just trying to balance your view with a few excuses

_________

Anyway, My eye can't spot any more problems other than the ones SimFox has highlighted, so erm... good work! 

Regarding the roof, looking at the photo you just posted the real life roof looks like almost flat colour!  I can see how it's difficult to represent it in the SimCity version, where that fine detail is inevitably flattened by the final resolution.  The only 'texture' I can see in it is a faint weather staining in the sheltered spots (a lot fainter than in your latest renders), and there seems to be an equally faint pattern showing through.  I don't know what the roof is made of, so It's hard to tell what that pattern is caused by, but it looks like either join seams or surface 'bump' caused by the structure underneath.

In any case, I have to look really hard at the photo to see that detail.

I would say that the version of the roof that you had in this picture was closer to being right than your latest version (especially in colour):

Click for your original size:

 

It's difficult to say what I would do as I've never tried to make a roof texture as 'clean' as this one, but if you took the above texture, and just worked on making the staining around the edges a bit less smudgy and perhaps less intense that might make it look better. 

I'm not sure how helpful this is, but I hope I haven't thrown a spanner into the works! 

[mightygoose 92]

that last shot the bulding appears to be six inches off the ground...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Quote:

"that last shot the bulding appears to be six inches off the ground..."

Unquote:

EXCELLENT...!!!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

I hate to be the only one who actually "notice" some problems with this model in the choir singing Hallelujah.quote>

If it weren't for your ability to 'notice' these sorts of things, a lot of us (me included) would still be stuck in the BAT dark ages... not to mention using horrible old BAT4Max ver. 2! It's good to get appreciation, but the main purpose of having a BAT thread is to get critical feedback afterall.

I actually feel a bit under-qualified to comment on the roof situation after that big write-up from SF. Regardless though, the texture shown in the last preview definitely needs to go - compared to everything else the resolution looks terrible. I think a simple bare concrete texture without any obvious shading mapped tightly onto that section should look fine. Apart from that, I too am struggling to find things to comment on... we've gotta be getting close now right?

[Amthaak 1,501]

This update concerns mainly the roof! you may find it a little bit too" clean", just would like to mention that I am using the last pic commented by SimFox as ref. and I consider the roof like a "polish concrete, freshly painted roof". That can be a starting point.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Any comments?

[psander5 195]

I think the roof is too reflective.  It looks like a smooth surface that's been rained on to me   

Edit: Oops, you posted while I was! Never mind, same applies. 

[SimFox 802]

I agree it is way to reflective, to glossy and way, to dark. But... It could also be like that. At least it hasn't got that bad photoshop feel to it no more.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Thanks for your comments! What about that? (less glossy, less reflective surface, less dark)

[SimFox 802]

I'd say it's perfect!