hkabat-forum-threads Amthaak BATS Thread

[jacqulina 162]

hiya pierre beautifull building mt friend

[Simbourgeois 139]

Yes, you're right, one day is not enough!

But I will have to buy my own helicopter! A mayor cannot be publicly seen arriving well before the end of the working day at the Hotel Spa... 

Amitiés,

Simbourgeois

Maire de Belleville

[Amthaak 1,501]

Cockatoo: thanks to remind me the missing part on the top, I did'nt forgot, The bottom part is also missing , I 'll bat them both very soon! I'm glad you like the fountain! In fact I got the idea visiting heblem bat thread!

Hi Roger: thanks for your fidelity and support, I'm glad you like teh fountain (I like it too...)

Jacky: Hi my fiend! thanks for your comments!

Cher maire de Belleville! of course, un maire de ton envergure ne pas se deplacer en taxi comme moi...

[Simbourgeois 139]

Nay, I only drive my own luxurious Citroen, no taxis

By the way, it seems to me that the taxi would look better if it would be moved a bit towards the left side, in that way the driving trajectory would be more natural (if you would draw a curved line from the drop-off point at the front entrance, where it should have been standing parallelly to the entrance door before some few seconds ago).

Bien à toi,

Simbourgeois

Mayor of Belleville

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hmm... concerning the taxi, I'm wondering whether a different approach would be possible. Will the entrance be suitable for transit-enabling? If yes, then it might be possible to assign the "taxi maker" property to the hotel so that it would spawn taxis. The look of these, in turn, would depend on the taxi skin a player has installed. Hasn't someone recently released beautiful Hong Kong taxi automata, for example?

I'm going to have to take a look into this, however, because I'm not sure whether the taxi maker property will work on growable RCI buildings. On the other hand, maybe the entrance area won't be suitable for transit-enabling anyway, so taxis could only be spawned on adjacent roads, but they wouldn't appear in the driveway.

Personally, I'm fine with that HK taxi - it could also be considered a hotel shuttle or a private car by those who don't want or need any specific HK reference. The situation just caused me to think about possibilities... so simply take all this waffle as me thinking aloud.

As far as the position of the taxi is concerned, I agree with our honourable mayor of Belleville.

EDIT

I just took the time to test with a growable residential building that I plopped using the Extra Cheats DLL: Apparently the Taxi Maker property works for RCI growables, so you could indeed have the hotel spawn taxis.

[SimFox 802]

This Hotel-taxi link is a great idea!!

One funny thing though... The Peninsula and hotel shuttle :-) There are lots of Hotel Shuttle that are parked around The Peninsula, but they aren't from Peninusla. Those bring residents of Hotels far north in Kowloon or even New Territories to the tip of Kowloon and Star Ferry pier.

The taxi seems to be way undersealed as compared to the hotel... what is length?

PS here is another quick and dirty planting (border like - commonly used in HK and China along the roads and highways) that could be done with particles:

best thing about such solutions is that you are not limited to any shape it could be absolutely anything and anywhere, and it is totally random and automatic. And with good enough material it looks pretty convincing...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Simbourgeois, TWrecks, SimFox: It's maybe a little bit too early to talk about the organisation of the peninsula entrance, and I hope the following pics will show how I reach certain conclusions, anyway I will before doing any definitive version, check with an ingame pic  the scale compare with the maxis bgds and cars to fit as closely it will be permitted!

Now the pics:

So, for the transit enable ,I think I 'll limit it to the 2 underground parking entrance ( of course for the definitive bat , there will be no batted cars in these entrance, and the gates opened)

SimFox: "undersealed" I think you want to say underscaled, right? well I had first the same impression, the lenght of the "red" car in the plan (it's a 850 BMW) is a little bit less than 5m which is the correct lenght for this car (I checked...!) I think the problem come by the fact that in reality there is a sloap to reach the entrance of the hotel which of course I did'nt do! but if you look at the plan the space for the circulation/parking is quite accurate with reality! (but I might be wrong)

PS: Wao, it really looks more than pretty convincing, can you give me more details on how you make it, or even better, I will be very greatful if you can send it to me (You have my Email right?)

[SimFox 802]

hm... I can't seem to find your e-mail... could you send something to me again so I can have it??

As for the car and the building... If car is scaled right then there is something wrong with the width of the large windows. They are much wider than should be compare their width to cars on Google street view, mind you those aren't BMW7 series cars (by en large)

[Amthaak 1,501]

Dear SimFox, sorry to bother you, when you talk about the large windows are you refering to the arched ones?

For the others windows they are all proportional according to the arched ones. But, I might be wrong

[SimFox 802]

How does this logic works?

in this picture (assuming it has been made with telephoto lens and perspective distortion is negligible) the width of the car (btw this is Ferrari F430 (1923mm wide), again not measured at the widest point where is should have been, but never mind that) is 146 pixels and that is 188cm, right? The width of the window itself (naturally excluding the columns) is 177 pixels. So how do you translate this 177 pixels into 301cm when 177 pixels is suppose to represent 1,88cm? Problem is that neither measurment is accurate no this shot is perspective free... But the is NO way that plane of glass is 3 m wide.

In that case this chinese child would be about190-200cm tall:

In my calculations this all means that window should be somewhere between 235 +/- 15cm.

[Amthaak 1,501]

SimFox.... you are definitively... right! Well I resized everything to get 2.45m for the width of the arched window (82,25%)

BTW, your chineese child, looks more like a chineese girl, I will say between 18 to 22, so for me she is approximatively 1.55m tall. Anyway that changes nothing! Thank you for this very pertinent remark, but as you know, I had the impression that something was wrong (fortunatly, I had the idea to put a car, it was just like a joke at the beginning....!)

Now 2 pics:

Maybe the fountain is a little bit oversize, but not that much....!

Ingame pic...!

[Amthaak 1,501]

No comments?

"Qui ne dit rien consent"!

I think I went a little bit too far with a reduction at 82.25% . Here after, another trial with a reduction at 90% which, after recalculating the overall dimensions seems to be closer with RL.! Your opinion would interest me. thanks a lot!

[ngeeves 5]

I'll let a more technically experienced person such as SimFox talk about the actual textures and modelling side as I know whatever I say will lack in detail with what to do: The one point I want to raise is the about the awnings on the side. In the in-game picture the awnings overhang grass which looks slightly odd. Would a pavement going around the model not look a lot better? Great model otherwise though.

[jacqulina 162]

hiya pierre my friend wonderfull detail

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Originally posted by: ngeeves

The one point I want to raise is the about the awnings on the side. In the in-game picture the awnings overhang grass which looks slightly odd. Would a pavement going around the model not look a lot better? quote>

Well, I'm pretty sure that what you see around the hotel is either a temporary lot made merely for the purpose of testing, or the hotel might have been photoshopped over an empty area to save time for exporting. The final lot design is almost certainly going to incorporate pavement textures under the awnings.

[Roger51 381]

This looks amazing, and beautiful in game. Will be hard to do the parking lots, but I know you can do it

[Amthaak 1,501]

Ngeeves: that's exactly what T Wrecks explained, just photoshop pic put in an empty area to avoid exporting (It's not time for export yet ...) . This ingame pics are just to check size and general appearance compare to other Bdgs!

BTW when time will come for loting, I will ask to T Wrecks to give me advices for it. I can even imagine to ask him to make it ( after all, we are in the same team and he is one of the most creative loter, maybe IMO the most creative , then in the readme files I can imagine something like : " Hong Kong Bat team is happy to offer Bla... Bla .. Bla...

Bating/modding : Amthaak, loting T Wrecks, Coaching: Cockatoo, Pics: Hong Kong; High pressure/essential constructive comments: SimFox, etc...That what I like in a team, solidarity!,  sharing hard time/work and success)

Hi Jacky: thanks for your comments

HAAA Roger: Don't know if I will succed but for sure , I 'll try!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

I will ask to T Wrecks to give me advices for it. I can even imagine to ask him to make it ( after all, we are in the same team and he is one of the most creative loter, maybe IMO the most creative , then in the readme files I can imagine something like : " Hong Kong Bat team is happy to offer Bla... Bla .. Bla...quote>

I was actually goint to suggest that once you'd exported the model! T-Wrecks is the master lotter and modder of the HKABT, and for a BAT as good as this, I really think we should be sending it off to him to make it as good as it can be in game.

Come to think of it, if he hasn't got too much work on, I might actually send him Tomorrow Square when it's done... my lots are always very average.

Let's talk about these underground car parks and the front entrance. First of all, do you plan to have the front of the lot transit enabled so as people can connect streets to the driveway that runs around the fountain. I may be wrong here, but I think you could actually have cars/taxis drive in a path around the fountain in game with some tricky modding. Of course if you chose this option, you'd have to make sure that this driveway on your BAT was the same dimensions as a street from the game and that its ends are perfectly aligned to the game grid (16x16). You'd also need to make custom LOD's so the cars don't get cut off once they reach driveway.

Now about the underground car parks, I really think you can do them. Read through this thread from here. This is undoubtedly the best UG car park ever made, it'll probably help you with some issues you might come across. I’ve never done anything underground before but I know you need to extend your LOD’s underground too for it to work.

[Simbourgeois 139]

Oh, it's nice to see this ingame pic! Now I will be able to consult with my city-planners on what would be the best location of this beauty, how to arrange the infrastructure etc. Everything has to be done in advance, so that Belleville's bourgeoisie can meet 2011 in this hotel!!!

Du beau travail, vraiment!

Bien à toi,

Simbourgeois

Maire de Belleville

[Amthaak 1,501]

Cockatoo: YES, that what I call "team spirit" , despite the distance / same ideas!

To come back to the TE options, I identify two possiblities. For each one there are advantages and lacks! Maybe tere are other options. If it the case, please , let me know!

Option 1:

The TE will only concerns the underground parkings car. (the white squares represent a 16/16 square in the game)

advantages: no specific works to do with LOD's (in green on the pic)

lacks: no visual for cars turning around the fountain

Option 2:

The TE allowed circulation around the fountain! (the white squares represent a 16/16 square in the game)

advantages: nice ingame visual, very realistic

lacks:

-making complex LOD's   (in green on the pic) (I don't know how to make it! I red an explaination how to make it with bolean, but I am not sure to understand very welll, english pb)

- what about the fountain?, make a specific bat/scene to make a prop can be an option, then how to light a prop?

I know that it is not the time for export, but I prefer to think in advance of what can be done with TE.

Thanks for the link about the underground Bat. It is really very interesting and I will try that very soon

BTW: other subject, sorry for my (stupid?) comment about the sims icons for windows, it was a (stupid?) joke. What  get me worried about it, is that  some people seems to think that I was serious! Do we have to avoid any sense of humour in Simtropolis...?

Maire de Belleville , mon cher ami, le rendez-vous est pris!

[HONG KONG 74]

Originally posted by: Amthaak

BTW: other subject, sorry for my (stupid?) comment about the sims icons for windows, it was a (stupid?) joke. What  get me worried about it, is that  some people seems to think that I was serious! Do we have to avoid any sense of humour in Simtropolis...?quote>

Keep it real !....... Reste comme tu es !

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Option 2 is possible and wouldn't be very hard to do. 

[SimFox 802]

Keeping pressure... I'd say you shouldn't really scale anything, at least not on object level - it may mess up far more things that it will ever fix. If you have to do it do it on sub-object level - best on vertex one.

Also If you do it doesn't need to be uniformed either - as is the building (particularly tower) looks to short. Another part you have to take a look (and most probably adjust on local sub-object level) is the hight of both windows and /or vertical space between them. The space between the glass panels should be equal to the hight of the panel itself. On the tower, on the other hand the space between panels(again I'm talkin' vertical one here) should be about half of the hight of the panel. Righ now the order seem to be reverse. So your windows are way to tall on teh old part and way to short on the tower.

The transit enabling... well both variants are possible are very simple (from point of modeling to realize. Custom LODs are no different than any other geometry! The only special thing about them is NAME, nothing else. Scripts recognise and treat them differently exclusively on the basis of name.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Whoa, people... I'm speechless.  Of course it will be a pleasure and an honour for me to mod & lot this beautiful building, and you are quite right, a team should work together, or it isn't really a team!

As for the TE configuration, the most important point to be considered is the available space on the lot. If you could lay out a U-shaped street in front of the building, and the street wouldn't be blocked by anything, then version 2 will certainly give a nice impression, with cars (especially taxis, hehe) turning into the driveway and all. However, if the path the cars need to take conflicts with any part of the building, then version 1 is probably better after all.

The fountain could be turned into a separate prop, and if you keep its LOD low (was it below 0.3 m?), shadows can fall on it.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Replies:

Hong Kong: I will...!

Jasoncw: Your comments are always welcome, option 2 is my favorite too!

SimFox: Yep, you are right, I will definitively work on vertex, it will be more time but it's OK.

Bdg overall size/hight

When you talk that the bdg looks too short, are you refering to the old bdg compare to the new tower , or compare the Bdg to the others?

With the elements I have I took the choice to make 1/3 for the old one and (of course ) 2/3 for the tower, and according to what I find on the net the total size of the Bdg is 117m. Actually, and after making the second re scale I have a total hight of 124m. The difference is intentional, as I want to avoid the flattening impression due to SC4 perspective.

Windows sizes and space between them old Bdg:

Are refering to that:

Effectively x should be equal to y, my bad...! I will correct it

Windows sizes and space between them new tower:

I found the pb! in fact it is due to a bad position of the windows frames, I 'll correct it too!

Column A has correct frames position, B is wrong (actual)

 Custom LOD's : well, if I understand how to proceed, I keep for instance LOD3 (delete LOD4 and 5) make a customized LOD3 using bolean technic (for instance) and then make clone of the customized LOD3 and rename them LOD4 and 5. Is it correct:

Now, can I make any customized LOD like this one?

 

Nota! The LOD goes underground , as suggested, to allow underground parking render! It is also a little bit underground around the place around the fountain in order to avoid the  pavement batting area, which can be done then during the loting.

And that exactly the transition I need to tell to T Wrecks that I am very happy, that he accepts to make the modding and the loting of the PENINSULA (when it will be finished....! The kind of bdg, you when you start, but don't know when it will be finished...) VIVE LA HONG KONG/ASIAN BAT TEAM

[SimFox 802]

I can't tell anything about that "LOD goes underground" thing. And I'm quite confused about "to allow underground parking". Cause if all you are after you don't need any underground LODs. Since LOD is just a shell onto which it rendered images mapped. And it is all done from a specific and fixed render view points.

On the other hand if you hope to see the cars go to what appear below ground level... About this I don't really know much and would like to hear someone who has some experience with it. TWrecks, perhaps... Is it possible at all automata going below what is game terrain level?

Speaking generally about LOD modeling... I don't see any need for Boolean. More than that I'd avoid Boolean as much as possible. It is one of the least reliable and precise (in the way what it leaves you with) tool in the entire max tool set. That said there are some circumstances when using anything else is unpractical - for instance when you try to cut away some complex curved shapes (from complex curved shapes) but her you have extremely simple clean cut  ones. Using boolean on them will only spoil this simplicity. Plus it will undoubtedly introduce large number of pointless vetreces which may cause problems down the road in SC4Model. here is a little tutorial how to get similar LOD shape with no Boolean what so ever.

1. create a box fitting general size shape of you model:

2. Convert it to Editable Poly. Alternativelly Editable mesh could do, but, honestly I see no reason what so ever to use it, as in terms of editability it is far inferior to editable Poly.

At this stage you can fine-tune the fit of the LOD to your model. There are, however, few things to remember. Those so-called skin-tight LODs many rage about aren't really a good idea, and (at least for land models) should be avoided. It is exactly these skintight LODS that are responsible for nasty dark boarders at the bottom of the models. Always leave some 20-40 cm around your model. In game this is absolutely negligible distance yet your model will look it's best.

3. Select all long edges of the box and hit little square next to the connect button - this shall open Connect options dialog.

Set segments to 2 and hit OK.

4. Repeat the procedure, but for shorter edges and setting segments to 1 this time.

5. Now we have the polygons covering the little plaza in front of entrance. Select them and delete.

6. After that you're left with gaping hole. We would have to cover it.

7. Select edges show here and click on Bridge (the button itself - you don't need any options form Bridge dialog).

Optionally you can use border here, but  it is good to get familiar with bridge tool - it is one of the most practical ones.

8. Now you've created polygon that links those selected edges. You 're left with two holes that could be very quickly (with no additional commands) filled with Border-Cap command.

9. So, select Border sub-object level,

10. select Boarders and

11. hit CAP.

12. All openings are now filled.

13. Now we should start with getting Tower covered by LOD.

In a familiar fashion  connect appropriate edges.

Here:

14. and here:

15. Select Polygons covering footprint of the tower and click on a little square next to the Extrude button to open Extrude option dialog.

16. Make sure that you are extruding group, otherwise (if By Polygon option is selected) you'll be creating the polygons between selected on extrusion, set appropriate extrusion hight and hit OK:

17. And now wi have our basic and very clean shape of the LOD.

18. I'm not sure if this step is all that necessary, but it may be prudent to make sure that all edges are sharp transition by removing all and every smoothing groups.

19. Now the main LOD is complete. but if you wish to include the Fountain (on should or shouldn't it be done later) create and bod fitting the model.

20 And, finally, attach it to the main shape.

And you're done.

On the including fountain into main model or exporting it as a prop.

This is a matter of debate, but my suggestion in this particular case would be to include it into the main model. It is very easily accomplished, and fountain will have natural looking shadows.

Shadows are the prime consideration, IMHO, here. True that you can export is as an independent prop and make sure that your LODs are not smaller than 0,2m and not greater than 0,3m in hight. This way game objects will cast shadow on it. But shadow will be cast not on the actual fountain, but rather on it's LOD. - ie flat box. This may look unnatural in game. Also the LOD would have to be considerably large (on x and Y) than the model itself as to cover it entirely, given much greater hight of the model itself. Another reason for not going this way - the main one, if I may say so myself, is that the shadows will be cast day and NIGHT and also on TOP of possible night lighting. This, without the doubt, will look silly!

So, inclusion will give you natural looking shadows, shadows in-line with the shadows on the building (otherwise situation when fountain is completely in shadow and facade next to it in full sun may occur), plus you'll have no problem with night lighting of the fountain.

[Amthaak 1,501]

That's what I call A TUTORIAL. Thank you so much for the time you spent to make it. It is clear like cristal! And I think I get it (means I'm sure)

So now I have just to name it LOD3 and make 2 copies (LOD4 and 5) right?

If you have time to comment on the scaling issues, I'll be very greatful!

[art128 4,618]

Originally posted by: Amthaak

So now I have just to name it LOD3 and make 2 copies (LOD4 and 5) right?

quote>

Yes, you just have to do that  !

Can't wait to see it in the game !

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Concerning the cars going under ground, that should be perfectly possible. Traffic automata need to be able to change their elevation anyway, for example when they follow terrain features, or when they need to go from level ground to a NAM bridge.

For automata to drive down a ramp that leads into the ground, two conditions must be met:

1) The LOD must be cut out accordingly, or the automata wíll vanish from sight.

2) The lot in question must have custom-made automata paths assigned to it. These paths must lead downwards at a slope that matches the slope of the modeled ramp,

Hence, such a setup would require some complicated in-depth modding that cannot be done by many people (I'm not one of them) and would contribute pure eye candy for those who like to watch the lot closely in zoom 5 until a car drives down the ramp... I'm not really convinced whether it is worth the effort, although I'm pretty sure that it should be feasible in a purely technical sense.

EDIT

SimFox, that tutorial should go straight to the Omnibus! "Modeling LODs in 3dsmax" - explained by sensei SimFox.

[SimFox 802]

The modding, or to be precise pathing, is not a problem I can do it and have been doing (for myself so far without releasing (I made so called Pedestrian Malls enabler that solves the problem of missing path connections that makes pedestrian malls in MAN all but useless)

The problem in my opinion is/was that automata can't go through ground that acts as collision barrier. At least I think I read something like that somewhere...

As for the tutorial, well there is nothing specific LOD about it... it's just basic modeling... it could have bee the main body of the hotel just as well...