hkabat-forum-threads Amthaak BATS Thread

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Francesco! Hope you right about the textures will help  to enhance some details...!

Hard to believe that is the same building...!

[HONG KONG 74]

Am I the only one who thinks that this thread really belongs to the HK/ABT departments?

[SimFox 802]

"textures" will not help, but properly set material might, and so might higher AA settings, still some of the details are way to small...

HK:

I think you're darn right!!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Dear SimFox, when you say that some details are too small, would you please be more factual/precise? In order to help to confirm my understanding, let take the example of a concrete roof, when I talk about texture, it's equivalent to applied a bitmap representing concrete from  a standart selection,  on the object, and using material is to applied from the library the most adapted materiel like for instance  choose  Arch & Design, then choose (for instance) the polished concrete template?  Is that correct?

In another hand, what are AA settings?

HK:

[SimFox 802]

well for any change due to be it material, or texture (I hate this word, or to be precise how it is misused and abused in bating community) to be visible your object has to be at least couple of pixels in size - it is, after all, visuals what we are after here.... And as it stand now those small details - like groves, or detail on keystone are much smaller. So no matter how carefully you "texture" them it wouldn't help. You simply can't see what you can't see.

I'm not talking about roof - it could hardly be called a detail... As, texture goes - the term is probably sole reason responsible for a poor quality of much of the BATing content. In 3D it is mostly goes back to the kind of games back then when the only way to decorate the surface was to smack some bitmap on it. Those are long gone. Yet here in BATing community people even when they use such an advanced tools cling to it. It could be understood as in attempt to find simple comforts. But it does no good to the quality of the output. People seem to thing if they slap some "nice" picture on top of something it will look great (just take a look at that Avatar monstrosity on STEX now - it really tops all). I put NICE in quotes because people think that to make bitmap nice it must be over-saturated and over-contrasted to hell.

To find your way around materials in MAX isn't difficult, but it requires precise and logical thinking. If you will star thinking like you have written "to applied a bitmap representing concrete from a standart selection, on the object," you are already half lost, or could be... At least you are confusing those who are starting and reading this thread for clues what to do. You can't apply bitmap to an object... So why to say it... Just for laughs go to max and try to follow your "instruction" in that precise order - apply bitmap to object, then select arch&Design mat adapt it, and then select a template... You'll find out that this is unworkable set of instructions. And it is chiefly because of "texture" way of thinking...

Anyway material are crucially important in making your model come to life. And most crucial part of material setup is not what sort of pictures you use in the defuse map slops but how you set it interaction with light. Standard materails don't really do it... They come from that time such interaction was computationally beyond the possibilities of anyone but major Hollywood studios. But those days are luckily gone. How to set up materials properly? Most essential skill you need for that is your sight - just look how different surfaces interact with light. Try to describe it. And be very detailed and precise in that description. Don't simply tell "it's shiny" describe precisely what shiny is... once you do it will make setting up materials much much easier, and without it you'll NEVER be able to master the process.

I hope you understand that I'm not trying to throw you a proverbial fish here, if anything I'm trying to avoid it, although sometimes it is tempting. Instead I want you to be self sufficient in "fish department".

Anyway that is all pretty theoretical...

As the practicalities go you should simply try to get all your detail to show up in arch&Design matt  gray (or yellow) mat. You could go and try to go and accentuate some of those already visible details with bitmap, but in my experience (and IO guess this is a subject of personal preferences and skills) it is just too complicated ad time consuming for any large project so full of details...

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I think the cliche you are looking for is: "Give a man a fish, and you will feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you will feed him for a lifetime." I couldn't agree more actually.

[mightygoose 92]

that has been very helpful and interesting to read from a bystanders point of view, and amthaak, it still looks great XD

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Whoa-ho-ho! This is shaping up to be an instant hit.

Originally posted by: HONG KONG

Am I the only one who thinks that this thread really belongs to the HK/ABT departments? quote>

HK:

I think you're darn right!!quote>

HK:quote>

I could move it now if you like. When you're not working on Asian stuff I can move it back here at any time, but then again if you want, it could stay there permanently. It's your choice.

There is a catch though, the team room is really only for HKABT members to showcase. This being the case, would you be interested in joining? Your Asian BAT's would be a real asset to the team.

[mightygoose 92]

thats an offer... right there...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Something new happened...! When I close max (3 ds max 2008), I got now this error message:

1: 3dsmax 2008 opening

2&3: After closing message error

 

Any Idea...? It has no really influence on the scene I quite but I am so sure that maybe the file is corrupted....!

I didn't receive yet the video card and I am still "fighting" with my PC.

I did a radical change to the bat i.e. I increase 20% the height of it . What do you think!?

Mightygoose: BTW Is it the kind of offer which can be refuse...?

[mightygoose 92]

it is hard to say whether ome form of comparison... perhapsthout haveing some form of comparison... perhaps setting your rener background to an image from in game at the same zoom level? of course you could refuse the offer, it's just it's a great honour, but i am sure they would understand any reasons you had for not wanting to join.

[HONG KONG 74]

Afin qu’il n’y ai pas de malentendu sur le sens de mon message, j’ai demandé à ma petite amie française et blonde (he he he) de traduire :

Tes BAT asiatiques seraient réellement un enrichissement pour l’équipe. En d’autres mots tes « thread » devraient faire partie du HK/ABT.

Notre équipe représente avant tout, ce que son nom indique, la joie et surtout apprécier le jeu de l'architecture de Hong Kong et de l'architecture asiatique en général. Il n'y a cependant aucune contrainte de faire des créations répondant aux seuls critères de l'équipe. C’est-à-dire que tu peux créer autant de thread que tu le souhaites à côté de "ton" HK/ABT.

Je serais ravi si cela pouvait te convenir, et si tous les membres actuels de l'équipe étaient d'accord pour t’accueillir dans le HK/ABT mais également dans notre équipe (j'en suis sûr). Tes travaux sont très prometteurs et correspondent au haut niveau de nos publications. Enfin, je serais heureux d'être en mesure de te donner une ou deux idée.

A propos, quel le meilleur Cognac au Monde. Santé !

[Amthaak 1,501]

Alors là! pour une surprise s'en est une! (the kind of sentance I don't know how to translate, it's something like: "What a surprise...!") . Evidement quand quelqu'un fait l'effort de m'ecrire en français , la moindre des choses est de répondre en français. Merci mille fois à la (charmante) traductrice, et à toi Hong Kong qui a eu la delicatesse de preciser dans ma langue natale la proposition de me joindre à vous afin qu'il n'y ai aucune ambiguité. Merci également d'avoir compris, qu'en plus de comprendre la complexité technique de max, le filtre de la langue était un handicap supplémentaire (euphémisme certains diront).

Il est clair qu'à partir du moment où j'accepte de joindre le HK/ABT, j'en accepte les regles de fonctionnement, à savoir produire des Bats representant uniquement des batiments de Hong Kong (Y a t'il d'autres règles?). Je croiscomprendre que le concept s'étende à l'architecture asiatique. J'aimerai avoir un peu plus de precision! Au vue des derniers "uploads" (désolé pour cet anglicisme) de Cockatoo (Aurora bdg) je comprend que la notion d'architecture asiatique inclut la Chine. En est-il de même pour la Corée, le Japon; Singapour etc...?

D'autre part, il est très clair pour moi que la proposition de me joindre à vous passe obligatoirement par l'acceptation sans restriction de l'ensemble des membres de l'équipe, car si quelqu'un n'est pas d'accord, ou pense que cela est prématuré par manque de maturité dans mon travail, il serait normal que je ne me joigne pas à vous. A ce sujet il serait peut-être plus prudent que je finisse le Peninsula avant que vous preniez votre décision finale...!

En ce qui me concerne, c'est effectivement avec joie que je me joindrai à vous.

HK/ABT est sans doute l'équipe qui possède la plus grande quantité de "stars". C'est comme si tu demandais à un joueur de basket s'il voulait joindre "Team USA".

Encore une petite précision, qu'elle difference y a t' il entre HK/ABT et "votre équipe"?

quote:

"Je serais ravi si cela pouvait te convenir, et si tous les membres actuels de l'équipe étaient d'accord pour t’accueillir dans le HK/ABT mais également dans notre équipe (j'en suis sûr)

Pour tes idées, elles sont les bienvenues (comme tes photos d'ailleurs).

La dernière question est capitale (le meilleur cognac au monde), je te l'envoie par message personnel car je ne sais pas si ce "Bat Thread" (encore un anglicisme, va falloir que je me surveille..) est le lieu pour faire ce genre de commentaire.

Encore merci, cher Hong Kong pour ton soutien!

Sorry, for the others, next time it will be in english...!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Mightygoose: For the new height I think it cannot be a problem in the game , I'll test it of course,  but my point was according to what I red in different thread that, by doing that way, the building will look like closer to the original one  (less squashed)

quote:

Mightygoose: BTW Is it the kind of offer which can be refuse...?

unquote:

Sorry, that's kind of french humour, because the answer is of course: " No, it can't be refuse!". Your misunderstanging just confirm me that my english is very poor

[art128 4,618]

Originally posted by: Amthaak

Encore une petite précision, qu'elle difference y a t' il entre HK/ABT et "votre équipe"?

quote:

Je serais ravi si cela pouvait te convenir, et si tous les membres actuels de l'équipe étaient d'accord pour t’accueillir dans le HK/ABT mais également dans notre équipe (j'en suis sûr).quote>

(Sorry all for this French parenthesis )

Amthaak - Je pense que ce que H-K voulait dire c'est que "tout les membres actuels de l'équipe t'acceuilleraient dans l'équipe et dans leurs partie de forum à ST .. Enfin, je pense, je peut me tromper aussi !

---

About the last rendre shot, i'm really liking it, it's awesome. But I don't like the texture you used for the top "circular" thing.. the metal one. It's a but too blured for me.. But anyway it's AWESOME !

And sorry for your problem, I don't know what's the reason of it, as i'm using 3dsMAX 2009 and I never get that type of problem..

Bonne chance l'ami !

Arthur.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

From what I can gather from Google translator (), you've decided to join us! That's fantastic.

Before we get things started, I'll give you a little history lesson.

I believe the team was founded in late 2005 after Bixel and Paul started working together on some projects. They are considered the founding members. This thread contains some of the original info and projects that they worked on - it's where it all started. Soon enough the administration gave them their own team room, everybody got separate BAT threads and the team was able to grow into what it is today.

We're not like the majority of BAT teams out there and I believe this is why we've lasted so long. We keep away from politics and silly things like that. We have no team rules, no leaders, no obligations, no state secrets… Members can come and go as they please. At the core we're just a group of people trying to re-create HK and Asian architecture as best we can.

If you want, you can change your STEX avatar to the HKABT one and brand your uploads with the HK tag, this is just so people can identify them easier, but again, this isn't set in stone. It's up to you whether you want to do this or not. Some members choose not to and that's fine.

We don't have quality standards, this is important. I was invited to join when I was a still a total newb. When we get a new member though, we try and put in an extra effort to get that person to be as good as they can be. We give them all our knowledge about BATing and hence this keeps us at a fairly high standard. I wouldn't worry about that though... your BAT's are already as good as just about everybody else’s on the team.

We don't impose any restrictions on what a member can make - at all. You can do as much or as little work as you like. You don't have to convert to solely working on Asian BAT's, you can make absolutely ANYTHING you want form anywhere in the world. Almost all of us work on non-HKABT projects from time to time, some more than others, and when we do, we release those under our own name. Again, you can make anything you want. When you decide to make something Asian, you'll add "HKABT presents..." to the description and that'll probably be the only difference you'll notice to your uploads.

As for your BAT thread, we've got a couple of options.

1. We can leave this thread where it is as your regular BAT thread in Open Discussion and start a second thread in the Team Room for your HKABT projects. I can move everything from the start of the Peninsular Hotel to there. (Probably the best option.)

2. I can bounce your thread around from Open Discussion to the Team Room depending on what you're working on at that particular time.

3. We can move this thread permanently to the Team Room. You'd still be free to showcase any non-HKABT projects there once you've joined.

So then, let me be the first to officially welcome you to the team. Here is your STEX badge...

I'm sure you'll be a great asset to the team and hopefully the team will be a great asset to you. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't worry about your English! As far as I know, over half the team doesn't speak English as a first language.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Dear Cockatoo, I am very sorry that you had to use Google translator, I mean, that I am very sorry you don't have a french girl friend to help you to translate (might be blond...!) . I did use it (google translation) also to translate last SimFox's post, and I had the impression to have a talk with master Yoda!

"We keep away from politics and silly things like that. We have no team rules, no leaders, no obligations, no state secrets… Members can come and go as they please. At the core we're just a group of people trying to re-create HK and Asian architecture as best we can."

Well, seriously, this description of the HK/ABT's rules and objectives correspond exactly to what I am expecting from the ideal Bat Team (and you are this ideal "Dreaming Bat Team" ). I only wish that I can give to the team as much as i'll receive. I am sure that with your help (and you already help me so much...!) you 'll no regret to have me in your team!

Concerning the option for my Bat thread, I don't really have any preference, as I will in the future concentrate on HK and Asian Bats ( does that include Singapour?) you can move it to HKABT Team Room (option 3), in this case do I have to change the link in my signature? Heu! thanks to advise me about the size of the picture...). Anyway, please, feel free to do what you think is the best for the Team (Hehe, I trust you, Coach!)

Thanks a lot for your official welcome, I really like the Team logo. I just would like to know how I can use it (not when, 'cause I already understood that ). To be more specific, how can I change it in order to appear only linked to my HK/ABT uploads (the pb is that it appears also on all my already uploaded bats, which are, with the exception of the river view hotel, non HKABT  projects)

Don't worry about my english, I will improve!

PS: "Delpi Bats" is dead, welcome to "the Apprentice"!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Your thread has been moved!

To do with the badge, you can only use one STEX avatar at a time. If you decided to use the HKABT badge as your STEX avatar, then yes, it would show up on all your other uploads as well as anywhere you have left a comment on the STEX. The badge is more like a symbol of membership though, it doesn't really relate directly to the upload. Bixel makes San Francisco BAT's from time to time and he still uses his HKABT badge for an STEX avatar even though it shows on those uploads as well.

If this doesn't suit you, but you still want to use the badge, then you could Photoshop it onto your STEX screenshots and just keep your apprentice logo as your STEX avatar.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Well, about the use of the team avatar, it's perfect for me, I was just afraid that used for non-HK/ABT bats it could be a pb for the others (Team's members) . In this case , I am really happy (and proud) to use the team avatar as STEX avatar!

PS: I didn't yet receive  my new video card...

[bixel 1,223]

oooh welcome to HKABT. I am excited - your work looks real good!

[Francis90b 748]

I'm really glad to see your thread there, Pierre!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Francesco! Thanks my friend . I hope now I start a new batting era . ..!I have a new video card!

For the expert it's a MSI N250GTS 2D 1G (for 1 GB DDR3). 

I tested it yesterday night and could work more than 15 minutes without crash, but still have the error message when I close the application , anyway it seems to have no interference wiyh the scene so I cross my fingers!

I have another issue, here after 2 pics of render and the shadow has not the same orientation, I would like to know which one is correct and if it is possible (or how) to fix this error. Thanks for all your welcome words. (Dear Bixel, if you have time to reply to my PM, it will be more than appreciated)

The pics:

Sun come from the left!

Sun comes from the right,

the first is south view render and the second is East view render ???? !

I personnaly prefer the first, unfortunatly the scene I am actually working with is the second, I don't use anymore the first scene as I "lost" for the rendering the possibility of "turning" the Bat (only the East view is avalaible)!

I solved the pb by, opening a very earlier scene (correct one), delete everything (but sun, handle camera etc..) and merge the scene (2nd pic) and after tested itwith the SC4 rendering at zoom 3 (much facter ) I got correct south render!

Can somebody tell me  what I did wrong (in order to make it not happen again)!

Thanks for any comments!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Okay, my friends! It starts to look like something...!

But still, a lot of things to do, I have...!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

I can't figure out what the front of the building is reflecting. Where are these off-centre lines coming from - I've highlighted them - they don't seem quite right. It looks to me as if you've modelled some stuff in front of the building and hidden it to the camera in order to make the reflections interesting but to be honest I think a simple Google Earth screenshot would work much better.

I also have a suggestion for the roof texture, try shading the edges of it (darken it where it meets the edge of the roof). I've done it with some of my past few BAT's and I know others like Todd use the technique all the time. It can really improve the appearance and break up the uniformity of the concrete - which could also be a little better in image quality, it looks as if it has been damaged by jpeg compression a little.

But on the whole, I am just nit-picking - you're obviously aiming for 100% quality here and this is shaping up to be one of the more impressive BAT's ever produced. Well done! I CAN'T WAIT for night lighting!

[SimFox 802]

Looking good, but what sort of Zoom is this? Zoom6?

Also balcony is beter to have some door to get to it :-)

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Wow, that's truly impressive! Spectacular work here, congratulations.

As for the windows, the reflections do look a bit odd in some places. No matter what you choose as reflection, maybe a slight bump map for the window panes would also help a little? Just a suggestion, of course...

[bixel 1,223]

m

[Amthaak 1,501]

Sorry for late update! and Thanks a lot for all yr comments:

Coockatoo: yes the plane reflecting in the windows was not adapted. For the roof texture, I was just waiting to bat the roof bats, to do so, as the darken parts will also have to fit with them (anyway I already change the roof texture and make some darken tests). I 'm afraid that we will have to wait for a while to see the nitelites...!

SimFox: oups! forgot the doors for the balconies...! (if I tell you that it was for safety reason, I did so, specially when a guest (like Michael Palin  for instance)  arrives at 10 AM , has already drunk a bottle of champagne in the rolls Royce which picked him at the airport 1 hour before, and coming in that room discover a second bottle of champane,so if I tell you that  the risk of getting him drunk and fallin' down from the balcony was too big, you will not beleive me, will you...?) That what I thought too...So lets come back to the Bat...!

 

Here after 2 pics, one is zoom 5 the other is zoom 5 HD (SimFox, Is that what you call zoom 6?)

 

This HD definition is IMO very helpful to notice some error which can happen during the Batting, that's why I use it.

T Wrecks: your suggestion are always very welcome

Bixel: Thanks to try to speak french my friend (Is my english so bad...). I just tested your proposal on the little balconies on the last floor, I change the cylinders with a "textured" box and I reduce the scene size of 9 Mb, I have to work again on the texture but there is no real noticible change for the visual aspect. I understand now why I like so much your "Harbourside"

Well , if you have some tips create nice graphism (technics to apply the material... ) you are more than welcome!

[Francis90b 748]

Wow! The peninsula is really gaining shape and personality, and that's a great sight ! Can't wait for the roof to be perfected, it will be the icing on the cake !

[Amthaak 1,501]

Just carrying on the details quest, I started the back side of the old bdg. If somebody has details elements for the main back entrance he is super welcome (Hong Kong maybe....!)