hkabat-forum-threads Amthaak BATS Thread

[Odainsaker 2,134]

It's looking astounding!

As you are using 32-bit XP, you might try the /3GB switch. 32-bit systems have an ultimate addressable memory limit of around 4gb, physical and virtual RAM combined, of which half in Windows XP is automatically given over to the operating system kernel, leaving 2gb for use by user applications. The /3GB switch adjusts this ratio so that only 1gb gets reserved for the operating system and 3gb is made available for user programs. Only programs written as "Large Address Aware" will benefit from this, but fortunately, Autodesk's 3ds Max is one of those programs.

I found reallocating memory this way on XP allows 3ds Max to render scenes that otherwise would lead to an out-of-memory error, as you are essentially allowing it an additional gigabyte of memory to use. A drawback is that other applications may act unpredictably, particularly those reliant on your graphics card and Direct3D such as games, as the reduced operating system kernel will lead to the graphics card having out-of-memory issues with its own virtual memory. Hence, it is best to run under the /3gb switch configuration just for rendering. You can easily find online instructions for setting up the /3gb switch in your boot.ini in such a way as to give you configuration options at bootup, as well as preserving your current configuration lest an accidental misconfiguration threatens to leave Windows inoperable. Be sure to research carefully how it is done before attempting.

Of course, a 64-bit system and Max version will avoid most of the memory hassle and is more suited to deeply detailed BAT work. As Jasoncw also mentioned, there are also several useful memory conserving options on the Render-->Processing tab.

The danger, of course, is that there is still a lot of modelling to do, as well as nightlighting, so conservation of detail and technique may have to be the way to go until a 64-bit system gets going.

[SimFox 802]

your memory problem is really odd as your file (68Mb) is way-way to small to cause any such problems (on fully normally working max and system) even on 32bit OS. If it would have been 680mb file then may be... So I would guess it is some random error or some sort of memory leak that is responsible for the message you were given.

This doesn't negate the fact that in thins day and age there is NO good reason to stay with 32 bit OS and software.

Speaking of your modeled details- they are great! Bump maps will never be as good, particularly given that they don't really work with indirect light either at all or any good (exactly which is dependent on your version of Mental Ray). In case of faking it normal defuse texture would be far better option. If you want to conserve memory use Instances rather than copies or even elements (as part of bigger objects). In that case you really have only one instance worth of geom,entry in your scene. On the other hand it cold be messy, but if you take an extensive use of Layers you can help it a bit, still you may need mighty great number of layers...

I see here all prefer the old version. I, sort of stand apart on this one. I think new one is far better, got more punch and it's blend of sort of old with sort of new (neither is particularly remarkable) makes it unique. Each part separately leaves it rather mediocre. Also given game perspective tall buildings win visually. Although I personally often get annoyed of the effect. That said the more the merrier - if you can produce two versions it would be great. Although I'm not sure how to go about back side of the building. If memory serves me right (and here it was proven that this is NOT necessarily true statement) on the back side new part goes way down to second floor...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Odainsaker: Thanks a lot for your (very well explained) Tip! I easily find on the net how to proceed and I already did it with no pb (I even find the explaination in french...!)

Dear SimFox! Thank you very much for your (long) comment. I was (secretly) hoping/waiting for your apparition as you always give me such good advises. Between you and me if I can solve the memory pb (and be sure I will) I 'll certainly come back to the initial project as (and it's easy to understand) I have quite all the pics to finish this project. I'm also glad that you share with me that the rendering is really better with batting elements than "textured box". It's maybe more work (time ...a relative concept as you know) but at the end less complicated that complex texturing (at least for me). I Just come back from computer shop and I think anyway that middle of next week I'll have a new upgrade of my equipment  (The new seven + new graphic card+ more Ram ...), I have somewhere in my head that some month ago you already gave the advise to move to a 64 bit configuration (OS + max).

To come back to your first paragraph,I effectively find very strange that max could be less stable than Gmax????

Anyway, I noticed that since I delete the batting "middle corniche part" I get more stability/speed again which seems to corroborate your comment. I also open a new scene and merge the last stable scene i have and it's Okay until now. Maybe when I did this batted element, I did something wrong. I will do it again and I will see what happend.

Here the last pic after last developpment!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I was shocked how much more efficient my scene became when I moved all my geometry onto layers. I was working on a ~11x4 building, it was so slow, I couldn't even use the viewport before the all of the walls were done. If you haven't taken that opportunity, you should definitely give it a try

It may seem mediocre without the tower, but we are in great need of unremarkable buildings, especially one this size! Not to say it isn't beautiful in on its own (some people just have no taste ).

Looking beautiful, and glad you are getting your issues ironed out,

-Todd

[mightygoose 92]

hey, right, i did some research and although i can't seem to dig up any pictures of the back prior to the extension, my wanderings across the net, did reveal/clarify a couple of things.

first off the new extension does fill in the back all the way down.

it seems common consensus that the new elements extend all the way to the ground.

now i don't know if this is photo manipulation to ensure two images fit together but are we sure the peninsula is box profile and symmetrical?

and finally another picture from the early 1930's, not long after completion, it is strange i cannot find any pictures of the construction phase of the addition. one would have thouge exten such a famous building getting such a large extension would have been heavily photographed.

sorry i couldn't turn up any more...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Todd: seems there is a lot of things I have to learn...! thanks for your reply, very intersting indeed!

Mightygoose: I really appreciate, all this time you spent to try to find pics able to help me. I'm really spechless. It seems that this building is so much known for the entrance and the belvedere, that everybody forgot the back!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Good to see you're back on track with this.

I personally hope you'll model the entire modern-day tower as well as the old base. With the exception of the green helipads (which maybe could be left out) I think the new tower is beautiful. Maybe two versions are going to be in order, an old and a new, bit like what I had to do with Aurora Plaza and the video screens! Modelling the tower should be the easy part for you, at least compared to the base it should be a walk in the park.

[HONG KONG 74]

Very nice thread.

I love the historical version, but I am with SimFox. (modern version makes more!).

The exterior of the current version differs only slightly from the first.

Some differences in keywords:

- The back had back in time only one floor and up above a terrace.

  The current photo of the back entrance clearly shows the balustrade of the old

  terrace.

Unfortunately, I could not find a photo of time.

- The main entrance was not in middle the south side.

- on courtyard of the south side a small building with "PENINSULA HOTEL" on the roof.

The function of this building is a mystery to me

- The upper terrace of the south side had no sunroof.

- inner corners of the main building had fire escapes.

where they are today?

- There were balconies (no windows) on both wings in the middle of the south side of the second to the fifth floor.

These two photos were taken before the opening of the hotel.

[mightygoose 92]

whats going on here? compare mine and Hong Kon's images, they are clearly taken from  the same vantage point. note the railway hut in the foreground and the fences, mine is later i think as some from of plaza looks to have been constructed on the near side of the main road, this means that the hut may have been to do with construction and later removed? either that or someone has doctored one from the other.??? thoughts...

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Looks great. Can't wait till its done.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi guys, thanks for your support! Hong Kong you are a mine of informations! (Mightygoose, you too!)

To make the "job" easier I work with module Bats in new scene then merge the module in principal scene! It's faster in term of rendering during the devellopment of the module and I decrease the crash risk for the main scene.

Hi Coach, thanks for your PM I think I 'll follow your advice for the equipment. Here are 2 pics showing where I am today,  and for the experts, there is one showing the quantity of polygons. To my opinion it doesn't seems to be so much...!? any comments?

[Francis90b 748]

I think you should deserve a trixie for how many details did you model on that! Your polygon count is unbelievable! but i'm not an expert and i can't judge it....anyway for you lucky 3dsMax users even that count shouldn't be a problem... Well, hope you can get a clear idea of the back, it will be one step forward in seeing that beauty textured!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Francesco! I would like to remind you that "Brickell on the  River" made with Gmax reached 1.495.554 polygons!

which according to Cockatoo, is quite a record! Who knows...

[delija21 295]

That's really a piece of art...i don't think i've seen more detailed model on the stex so far. As for the polys...if your pc can handle it, i don't see a problem. But is it possible to see a SC4 preview, just to see how all these details look from SC perspective?

[Evillions 552]

The building reminds me from SC3kU, can't wait for this be finished!

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi everybody! I hope you had a nice WE. I started some texturing testing and hereafter are the results. Anyway I am afraid that all this work with a lot of details will be not noticable at a SC4 render...(and some of you already seems  to be dubitative).

He bien moi aussi, le doute m'habite...!

But I need more to become discouraged and these pics help a lot...!

[psander5 195]

Don't be discouraged! The fine detail is what's making this building so interesting to watch! I'm sure the pessimism is only on behalf of your memory management issues. If you can put up with those, go right ahead and model every molecule

Those perspective renders look great. Whatever SimCity renders out, we'll know is really there. I'd be tempted to put one of these renders in a custom query so we can all see what its supposed to look like!

Great work.

[jacqulina 162]

wow thats a really fantastic building my friend

[Delecto 941]

Great progress my friend,it will be an essential BAT!

-Sorry to hear that you have stability problem with MAX. I also had this problem and it's very annoying at times (mainly in max7 with NURBS and raytracing). My solution was to change "Max Graphics Mode" in Software instead of OpenGL or Direct3D. Not a single crash since this change, the same thing now that I bought Max2010Design. Works wonderfully. 

Best Regards___DEL!

[SimFox 802]

well I didn't want to say it so as not to sound too negative, but you do have to preview things you model...

I mean if none of it would be seen there isn't much point of doing it. You spend time with no return on it. That said I do not imply that you shouldn't do detail modeling, only that you should have clear idea what works (eg is visually impactive) and what is not, so that you can say exaggerate certain elements to bring them to sight... I had similar "problem" with Ukraina, which in some way a very similar building...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Al right SimFox , I understand the point, I will just finish first the Bat to have a correct view with basic texture.

I start to work on the roof:

And tomorrow I change my video card...!

[art128 4,618]

Woaw ! The amount of detail is really stunning !

[SimFox 802]

here is an example of what I was talking about

and

your Keystone detail is great, but it most probably will be completelly lost in even at Zoom5 While that curve at th edge of the arch is something that will be visible and have an impact. What I mean it may be  more productive to spend time working on that...

best of luck with your video card, although I strongly believe that Max is most sensitive to memory

PS

I know it is a bit off-topic, but have anyone seen Hotels official site? The horridly over-compressed picture is first what you see! and that is calling card of a hotel with biggest fleet of Rolls Royces in the world...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Maybe something like that?

[SimFox 802]

Yep, could be a bit curvier, so to say, but again the question is asked about totally wrong view!

I don't understand why do you keep insisting to make renders from wrong perspective and in wrong scale? Aren't you interested (or perhaps a bit apprehensive) how they'll look "in the end".

For instance from this angle the groves between blocks are clearly visible - they are big enough and accentuated by shadow. But once viewed say at zoom5 and from top they may disappear - shadow will be gone and the size may become to small to be noticeable... So after all that had work you'll end up with flat surface. Would it be totally flat wall changing things would be relatively easy - although still it would be doing same thing twice, but in case of arches it may not be all that easy. Of course you could go and get rid of every second grove, but then blocks may become too big... At any rate this are the questions you should ask and try to answer early on...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Are you reading in my mind...?

Well, it's true that I was waiting to show something presentable (it's not a joke) the moddle is complex and I am testing quite a lot. All your comments are very pertinent and sometimes I have to spend quite a lot in research to reach a certain result in terms of details which has to be noticable, at least at zoom 5. Here is a zoom 5 some arches has been changed, other not, and some textures as been applied (specially on some windows) (once again it's more reseach than definitive ones) Next step, I am going certainly tonight all the arches with the new one and start to work on the roof again. Well, I try my best and again, thanks a lot for spending time to help me.

[psander5 195]

It's great to see a game perspective preview! Its clear now that a lot of the finer detail is lost, but the general quality in the details seems to translate - although some of the definition is lost by the viewing angle. The horizontal grooves in the ground floor though have indeed vanished as predicted! The only part they are visible is in the shaded part of the courtyard.

I guess this post isn't very helpful It's clear though, now we see a game view that this is a really good building to make into a BAT. I look forward to seeing it finished!

[Ke|is 3,333]

wow, my friend your job is AMAZING

[Amthaak 1,501]

Dear Paul, POST ARE ALWAYS VERY HELPFUL, specially to help  the Batter to keep the morale

Yes, it's a pity that most of the details will not be seen... specially glass reflection from this angle..

[Francis90b 748]

Sorry to read your delusion about the loss of the details, but the ones that were left make this one of the best bats i've seen!

Oh, and you might always gain back some details with some careful texturing.