Show us your Camera Angles

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

Show us your Camera Angles

This is a thread in which you can share your city shots taken using the 3D Camera DLL mod for SimCity 4 developed by @memo

To share information on the various angles we can use, I recommend writing the angle used in CameraYaw and CameraPitch

Just to start this thread here are some basic images

SC3K Visual Style (CameraYaw 45)

GTA Top Down Style (CameraPitch 85 - CameraYaw 0)

[Haljackey 17,242]

This isn't just fun to play around with, it actually has use too!

I was looking at this interchange and noticed the NB to EB connection is incomplete. The cliff in normal view blocked me from seeing this.

(Cheat codes used to get this 'classic' top down view:  CameraPitch 85 &CameraYaw 0)

That issue here is blocked by trees. I would have likely NEVER found this

 

[Propfam 2,286]

Sorry if I'm rude or anything, since I don't have any access to SC4 at this moment. Is this mod real or is it just an April fools of using Photoshop to straighten images like @SIM-ple Jack has been doing for a while? If the former is correct, then I have nothing but a huge compliment to @memo. Sir, you're officially the best DLL modder of all time!

Also, can we make some animation mod for this, like we already have in C:S? Yeah, I could make it using stop motion. But, it's not nearly as smooth and I think it's a bit too far in terms of editing. Not to mention, it takes long time to capture and assemble those frames into minutes of video. Also, would be nice if we can use shaders (I know, there are already exist) that takes in-game materials (like glass on BATs should be shiny etc) into account with SC4.

Pro tip: since there's a lil bit of texture degradation due to skewing, shooting in 4K and above would be recommended. Also, use HD textures on anything if possible.

[Null 45 3,018]

27 minutes ago, Jidan said:

Is this mod real or is it just an April fools of using Photoshop to straighten images like @SIM-ple Jack has been doing for a while?

It is real.

30 minutes ago, Jidan said:

Also, can we make some animation mod for this, like we already have in C:S?

I am not sure what you are referring to.

[Propfam 2,286]

37 minutes ago, Null 45 said:

I am not sure what you are referring to.

 

[ohdude 2,353]

Wow This is sooooo funny!! OMG!!

 

[ohdude 2,353]

 

[Haljackey 17,242]

What game am I playing... SimCity SNES?

 

 

[Ulisse Wolf 4,398]

(CameraPitch 10)

[justforfun 7,705]

On 4/2/2024 at 5:35 AM, Null 45 said:

It is real.

Are you serious? I wrote the review assuming it was a classic April fool's and now it turns out it wasn't?? I have to try this. How on Earth does the game engine render the models at different angles, if the models are just set of images shot at 4 orientations? Funnily enough, if this is real it should work fantastically with S3D models because those are the ones with full geometry... and the ones I've been making all along! 

[ohdude 2,353]

@justforfun With this mod, you have the keys to the future of SimCity 4. The next step is to improve S3D model quality textures and functionality (if it is possible nighlights, shadows, even animations... who knows). As a 3dmax Bat maker I haven't tested your works yet so i'm just imaginating new possibilities. 

 

[Haljackey 17,242]

I do have a request for some of the more technical photographers/screenshotters out there- can a list be made for perhaps 5-10 of the most ideal camera settings? Like what yaw and pitch to use for best results/less bugs?

I think that list will help make it more user friendly vs randomly typing in numbers and hoping for the best

--

In the meantime I am wanting to screenshot like every interchange I have ever made, and just playing around with angles and stuff. I don't want to flood this with spam but here are some interesting ones.

Tilt shift feel

Crash!

Wildlife

Big boi

Hey, get out of the shot!

---

The SimCity 4 reddit has also been sharing a ton of pics there if interested

https://www.reddit.com/r/simcity4/

[justforfun 7,705]

1 hour ago, ohdude said:

@justforfun With this mod, you have the keys to the future of SimCity 4. The next step is to improve S3D model quality textures and functionality (if it is possible nighlights, shadows, even animations... who knows). As a 3dmax Bat maker I haven't tested your works yet so i'm just imaginating new possibilities. 

 

Haha, funny to think about that!

Adding nightlights to S3Ds would be possible by creating timed props for each model, but that would obviously require considerable additional work. 

I do incorporate some simple shading into most models however not on the roofs, to avoid obvious orientation inconsistencies. I've been wondering whether different resource-types (mine so far are type 0) would make the game add some shading but for my purposes I've deemed it unnecessary to delve into that. I might experiment in the future.

Animations are possible as was done in the carriage automata series, however they use up memory so I would rather use them sparingly.

Anyhow, I used to think SC3000's lower pitch angle made for a cosier, more immersive feel; now we can do the same with SC4 and it is just fabulous. 

[smf_16 1,834]

4 hours ago, justforfun said:

How on Earth does the game engine render the models at different angles, if the models are just set of images shot at 4 orientations?

SimCity 4 actually does use a full 3D engine, but the thing is that it simplifies the buildings as much as possible. Most of the buildings in SimCity 4 are actually rendered as simple boxes, but the game "paints" the textures on these boxes in a way that they look like the actual building in 3D. This is what happens when you render a BAT in 3ds max for example: it will take screenshots of the 4 fixed angles the game offers so that it looks exactly the same when painted on a simple box, instead of rendering the actual 3D shape. This makes the game playable on graphics cards from those days. I think this is an absolutely beautiful and very clever approach.

That's also why some buildings look a little clunky if you use different viewing angles, but it depends on how "rectangular" the building actually is. The more the building deviates from a rectangle, the clunkier it will look.

Even though the game actually offers only 4 angles, it still uses a full 3D engine under the hood. That's where the DLL mod comes into play: it allows us to control the 3D engine in a way, but it doesn't change the fact that the buildings are rendered as simple boxes.

Note that I'm no expert, so perhaps not all of my terminology is correct, but that's pretty much how the mod works.

[sander97 651]

Skyline (with a black sky)

[Dead_End 1,617]

2 hours ago, Haljackey said:

I do have a request for some of the more technical photographers/screenshotters out there- can a list be made for perhaps 5-10 of the most ideal camera settings? Like what yaw and pitch to use for best results/less bugs?

I think that list will help make it more user friendly vs randomly typing in numbers and hoping for the best

Seconded!

[Terring 6,473]

Wait, it's real? It's not a joke? Holy cow, I have to check it out!

[kbieniu7 266]

I've been away from Simtropolis and SimCity in general for a while. Today, I've got a message from a friend with a link to this tool... And I'm amazed. This is wonderful, the ultimate dream of being able to see one's region from the closest iteration possible to a first person view.

I've turned the game on once again and went to photograph my region that I've been building for past 16 years with a perspective that has always been hardly imaginable.

 

Block of flats in Kolbrów on the background of the village of Skała located on top of a hill. Now, the terrain shape is clearly visible with this angle.  I added some bluish gradient to try to facilitate the depth percetpion.


Power plant near Krzemień. Large, non-cubic buildings are clearly distorted, but as some industrial mess it can do.

Some random rural views.

Seashore view near Raszkowo.

Historic centre in the city of Olsza, with a bridge over the Wirta river leading to the city. Som blurring in the fore- and background. 

I tested several angle values. For me, the best are:
- Pitch 7 - 10, sometimes 15. 
- yaw 20-30, but usually keep the default value.

Once again: amazing to explore 

 

 

 

[ellis896 20]

WOW!!!!!!! FASCINATING STUFF!!!!!

[Samu64d 335]

2 hours ago, smf_16 said:

SimCity 4 actually does use a full 3D engine, but the thing is that it simplifies the buildings as much as possible. Most of the buildings in SimCity 4 are actually rendered as simple boxes, but the game "paints" the textures on these boxes in a way that they look like the actual building in 3D. This is what happens when you render a BAT in 3ds max for example: it will take screenshots of the 4 fixed angles the game offers so that it looks exactly the same when painted on a simple box, instead of rendering the actual 3D shape. This makes the game playable on graphics cards from those days. I think this is an absolutely beautiful and very clever approach.

That's also why some buildings look a little clunky if you use different viewing angles, but it depends on how "rectangular" the building actually is. The more the building deviates from a rectangle, the clunkier it will look.

Even though the game actually offers only 4 angles, it still uses a full 3D engine under the hood. That's where the DLL mod comes into play: it allows us to control the 3D engine in a way, but it doesn't change the fact that the buildings are rendered as simple boxes.

Note that I'm no expert, so perhaps not all of my terminology is correct, but that's pretty much how the mod works.

Remider to BATers that it's possible export true 3d models by having custom LOD. For this it's necessary to make a copy of the model then join all elements into a single mesh an call this object LOD5 finally make 2 clones and create LOD4 and LOD3.

[justforfun 7,705]

On 03/04/2024 at 3:02 PM, smf_16 said:

SimCity 4 actually does use a full 3D engine, but the thing is that it simplifies the buildings as much as possible. Most of the buildings in SimCity 4 are actually rendered as simple boxes, but the game "paints" the textures on these boxes in a way that they look like the actual building in 3D. This is what happens when you render a BAT in 3ds max for example: it will take screenshots of the 4 fixed angles the game offers so that it looks exactly the same when painted on a simple box, instead of rendering the actual 3D shape. This makes the game playable on graphics cards from those days. I think this is an absolutely beautiful and very clever approach.

That's also why some buildings look a little clunky if you use different viewing angles, but it depends on how "rectangular" the building actually is. The more the building deviates from a rectangle, the clunkier it will look.

Even though the game actually offers only 4 angles, it still uses a full 3D engine under the hood. That's where the DLL mod comes into play: it allows us to control the 3D engine in a way, but it doesn't change the fact that the buildings are rendered as simple boxes.

Note that I'm no expert, so perhaps not all of my terminology is correct, but that's pretty much how the mod works.

Well yes, the terrain and the S3D objects, like the automata and most network models, are fully 3D, however the BATs look correctly only when viewed from the 4 conventional orientation in which they are exported. Having a close look at the images taken at different angles will make the distortions in BAT models apparent, particularly for larger ones.  And if one opens any BAT in the Reader, clicks on an S3D and plays around with angles, one will clearly see how the distortions work.  This much was well known to me, but I just couldn't imagine that the in-game camera could be rotated at all. Which is magnificent, if used properly. 

 

On 03/04/2024 at 5:52 PM, Samu64d said:

Remider to BATers that it's possible export true 3d models by having custom LOD. For this it's necessary to make a copy of the model then join all elements into a single mesh an call this object LOD5 finally make 2 clones and create LOD4 and LOD3.

Yes indeed, this is used to make tight LODs which are great for prop placement however sadly cannot turn BATs into full 3d objects. 

[kbieniu7 266]

58 minutes ago, Samu64d said:

Remider to BATers that it's possible export true 3d models by having custom LOD. For this it's necessary to make a copy of the model then join all elements into a single mesh an call this object LOD5 finally make 2 clones and create LOD4 and LOD3.

 

3 hours ago, smf_16 said:

SimCity 4 actually does use a full 3D engine, but the thing is that it simplifies the buildings as much as possible. Most of the buildings in SimCity 4 are actually rendered as simple boxes, but the game "paints" the textures on these boxes in a way that they look like the actual building in 3D. This is what happens when you render a BAT in 3ds max for example: it will take screenshots of the 4 fixed angles the game offers so that it looks exactly the same when painted on a simple box, instead of rendering the actual 3D shape. This makes the game playable on graphics cards from those days. I think this is an absolutely beautiful and very clever approach.

That's also why some buildings look a little clunky if you use different viewing angles, but it depends on how "rectangular" the building actually is. The more the building deviates from a rectangle, the clunkier it will look.

Even though the game actually offers only 4 angles, it still uses a full 3D engine under the hood. That's where the DLL mod comes into play: it allows us to control the 3D engine in a way, but it doesn't change the fact that the buildings are rendered as simple boxes.

Note that I'm no expert, so perhaps not all of my terminology is correct, but that's pretty much how the mod works.

That's true. And that's why pre-fab blocks and cubic-like offices seems to be the least distorted buildings, cause they are shaped almost like their LOD boxes. 

Also, what I can see, this is still an isometric view, just from another angle (not a perspective), so. Anyway, in some shot's it gives magnificent effects.  

[justforfun 7,705]

Absolutely loving the new views at 30 degree pitch + size of 2.4. The cityscape looks so cosy and immersive now, what a dream! S3D details are also more visible:

 

 

 

[ohdude 2,353]

1 hour ago, kbieniu7 said:

I've been away from Simtropolis and SimCity in general for a while. Today, I've got a message from a friend with a link to this tool... And I'm amazed. This is wonderful, the ultimate dream of being able to see one's region from the closest iteration possible to a first person view.

I've turned the game on once again and went to photograph my region that I've been building for past 16 years with a perspective that has always been hardly imaginable.

 

Block of flats in Kolbrów on the background of the village of Skała located on top of a hill. Now, the terrain shape is clearly visible with this angle.  I added some bluish gradient to try to facilitate the depth percetpion.


Power plant near Krzemień. Large, non-cubic buildings are clearly distorted, but as some industrial mess it can do.

Some random rural views.

Seashore view near Raszkowo.

Historic centre in the city of Olsza, with a bridge over the Wirta river leading to the city. Som blurring in the fore- and background. 

I tested several angle values. For me, the best are:
- Pitch 7 - 10, sometimes 15. 
- yaw 20-30, but usually keep the default value.

Once again: amazing to explore 

 

 

 

Wow dude! that looks like Cities Skylines!!....but its SimCity 4

[Samu64d 335]

31 minutes ago, justforfun said:

Yes indeed, this is used to make tight LODs which are great for prop placement however sadly cannot turn BATs into full 3d objects. 

It's possible if the LOD has exactly the same shape of the original model as I stated. The only problem is that SC4 cannot handle a lot of polygons

[rsc204 21,804]

33 minutes ago, Samu64d said:

It's possible if the LOD has exactly the same shape of the original model as I stated. The only problem is that SC4 cannot handle a lot of polygons

Not technically, but I don't really feel like nitpicking... however the effect of using only True 3D models on performance is not well documented. When SC4 was released it would have been unthinkable as PCs wouldn't keep up, but whilst the hardware we used is orders of magnitude more capable, SC4's archaic code won't allow full use of such performance. As such, I'd imagine if people went mad with LODs, you could easily find this being a problem.

SC4 is never going to be a fully 3D game and whilst this new functionality is very cool and allows us to do some really thought of as impossible things, it is also hugely flawed in that results vary and it will always be subject to the limitations of SC4's Isometric design. I know everyone is super-excited by what this DLL does, but I think in a few weeks or months we'll reflect on that differently. Not saying this won't be useful, but it isn't going to turn 2.5D in to 3D either.

[Samu64d 335]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Not technically, but I don't really feel like nitpicking... however the effect of using only True 3D models on performance is not well documented. When SC4 was released it would have been unthinkable as PCs wouldn't keep up, but whilst the hardware we used is orders of magnitude more capable, SC4's archaic code won't allow full use of such performance. As such, I'd imagine if people went mad with LODs, you could easily find this being a problem.

SC4 is never going to be a fully 3D game and whilst this new functionality is very cool and allows us to do some really thought of as impossible things, it is also hugely flawed in that results vary and it will always be subject to the limitations of SC4's Isometric design. I know everyone is super-excited by what this DLL does, but I think in a few weeks or months we'll reflect on that differently. Not saying this won't be useful, but it isn't going to turn 2.5D in to 3D either.

I think that would be amazing if it's possible hearing the explanation why it's not a true 3d model and how NAM implements true 3D models with the BAT. I seach for this information years without finding a single source

[justforfun 7,705]

2 hours ago, Samu64d said:

It's possible if the LOD has exactly the same shape of the original model as I stated. The only problem is that SC4 cannot handle a lot of polygons

Sadly not. A full-geometry object can be seen correctly from any angles because its texture is "glued" to its shape, so to speak. On the contrary, a BAT is a 4-orientation rendition of a 3d object, therefore the resulting pictures only capture those specific angles and orientations, regardless of the shape of the LODs. 

To see this in action, open any BAT in the Reader, click on any of the S3Ds, and play around with rotation. You will see how the image quickly gets skewed, being a sort of optical illusion that only works for the exporting angles.

However it is always a good idea to make tight LODs, because this allows for easy placement of props around and even sometimes inside the model without any clipping. It is of course a different issue.

 

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Not technically, but I don't really feel like nitpicking... however the effect of using only True 3D models on performance is not well documented. When SC4 was released it would have been unthinkable as PCs wouldn't keep up, but whilst the hardware we used is orders of magnitude more capable, SC4's archaic code won't allow full use of such performance. As such, I'd imagine if people went mad with LODs, you could easily find this being a problem.

SC4 is never going to be a fully 3D game and whilst this new functionality is very cool and allows us to do some really thought of as impossible things, it is also hugely flawed in that results vary and it will always be subject to the limitations of SC4's Isometric design. I know everyone is super-excited by what this DLL does, but I think in a few weeks or months we'll reflect on that differently. Not saying this won't be useful, but it isn't going to turn 2.5D in to 3D either.

Some of my cities contain more S3Ds than BATs, as they are full of the row houses and shops I modelled. They run nice and smoothly, but I bet only because my models are intentionally low-polygon. If they had to reproduce all the complex shapes of BATs, the polygon count would soon skyrocket thus performance would likely diminish. 

Like you say, this great mod offers the best flexibility that an isometric set up can allow for. It obviously doesn't turn SC4 into a 3d game, nor comes without limits. I feel so lucky that my own S3D models can shine at different angles, but it is an experience few can share as the average city is obviously made of BATs. 

[Propfam 2,286]

7 minutes ago, justforfun said:

Some of my cities contain more S3Ds than BATs, as they are full of the row houses and shops I modelled.

How do you make them? Afaik, true S3Ds are reserved for network stuffs, or aren't they? Are there tutorials how to supplant BATs with true 3Ds?

[justforfun 7,705]

On 03/04/2024 at 10:07 PM, Jidan said:

How do you make them? Afaik, true S3Ds are reserved for network stuffs, or are they? Are there tutorials how to supplant BATs with true 3Ds?

Believe it or not, I model with ILive Reader. S3Ds can be used for any model, not just networks. It is a completely different way of modelling that offers both pros and cons. 

 

On 03/04/2024 at 9:46 PM, Samu64d said:

I think that will be amazing if it's possible hearing the explanation why it's not a true 3d model and how NAM implements true 3D models with the BAT. I seach for this information years whitout finding a single source

The true 3D models employed for example by the NAM viaducts are S3Ds, not BATs. This is why the viaducts are visualised correctly at any angles whereas the bridges that use BAT models do not. Hope this example helps clarify.