Need help regarding plugins structure

[Pakistani890 122]

So i am setting up my SimCity 4 plugin folder and i need some help regarding folder structure (my previous whole plugin folder got corrupted when i was transferring it) and how to make it

 

This is how my plugin folde looks. I downloaded the very essiential plugin the NAM:

 

 

the other window is of the mods i will install now. So i need help on how to make a folder structure

[matias93 7,535]

What I do is to create a folder for each author, and then a sub-folder for each specific plugin. And then, to ease the use of the DatPacker, I group the different authors' folders into alphabetic directories. This is how it looks:

Note that some of the folders change the order, grouping various initials that are uncommon, or separating the ones that are more frequent. The objective is to make each folder as close as possible to 300 Mb in size, which is the optimum that makes the game load faster.

[Pakistani890 122]

hey @matias93 hmm can u explain this in more detail espically the game loading faster and one thing more should i make a seperate dependences folder or should i put the dependences where they r required i.e in the folder where the plugin should br kept 

[rsc204 21,805]

There isn't a right or wrong way to do this and IMO what's far more important than copying the system someone else uses, it to create one that works for you. In other words, how can you find a given piece of content later if you need to, or see if you've already installed a dependency which is used by more than one installed mod? You just need to organise everything into a system you understand and can work with, something which is different for everybody.

On 20/02/2022 at 5:16 PM, matias93 said:

The objective is to make each folder as close as possible to 300 Mb in size, which is the optimum that makes the game load faster.

Has anyone actually tested this with some real world data? When I DATPack I just try to get everything into the least number of files possible and for the most part let DATPacker do things as it wants. Ultimately if you have an SSD, DATPacking isn't going to make a huge difference, since it's the seek times that were the cause of slowness with traditional HDDs. Although I have observed how having contents grouped by their Menu Type does give a noticeable improvement in terms of in-game responsiveness. So for example, packing all your MMPs together into one file, means the MMP menu opens almost instantly, whereas in many files there is a small delay for the menu appears. As much as anything because the game now only needs to read a single file to get all the data. That said, your MMP menu needs to be pretty full before this is necessary, in the example here I was using the full set of like 700 MMPs which ErnestMaxis released a while back.

[Pakistani890 122]

So @rsc204 i got it i need to make a system that works for me got it thx so i will be updating how i do it one thing more is DATpacking necessary even though i have an ssd and also please tell when i install mods or buildings etc the images, text files and documents in there should i keep it in the plugins or remove it to improve game responsiveness and @matias93 i GOT your point to make a folder not bigger then 300 mb or keep it in the range except the dependences or the NAM folder

[rsc204 21,805]

4 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

is DATpacking necessary even though i have an ssd

The performance differences are pretty slim, but it's not nothing. I think if you've a reasonable collection of a few GBs of mods, it's less hassle to keep that unpacked, so I personally don't bother. That said, as a developer I need to change things a lot and DATPacking causes me all sorts of additional hassle. I'd say if you are happy with things as they are, why bother trying to squeeze every last millisecond off your load times?

4 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

when i install mods or buildings etc the images, text files and documents in there should i keep it in the plugins or remove it to improve game responsiveness

Nothing that isn't directly used for the Game, i.e. .DAT, SC4Lot, SC4Model and SC4Desc files, should be kept in your Plugins folder. The two downsides if you fail to do this are firstly that the game loads slower, but since it's ignores files not in the SC4 format, it won't have an impact in game, only on load times. However, if you get too many of these junk files, that will eventually cause the game to become unstable, not really sure why but I've observed this first hand. Just move everything somewhere not in Plugins, but also somewhere where you can find them should you need to refer to any documentation.

[Pakistani890 122]

hey @rsc204 thx i got it i will update how i will make my plugin folder

 

[Pakistani890 122]

ok so sorry for the late reply but should i make a dependencies folder

this is what i am installing right now:

except the simfox day and night mod all of it is from sc4 devotion so what to do next

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

5 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

ok so sorry for the late reply but should i make a dependencies folder

Yes, I would recommend doing so. I have a separate subfolder for all of the files that I consider dependencies. It helps to organize the content and ensures that you won't delete something along with, say, a park set you no longer want to use.

[Pakistani890 122]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:33 PM, TheMurderousCricket said:

Yes, I would recommend doing so. I have a separate subfolder for all of the files that I consider dependencies. It helps to organize the content and ensures that you won't delete something along with, say, a park set you no longer want to use.

Can u explain this in detail

and the plugin folder:

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

14 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

Can u explain this in detail

Sure, no problem. 

Here's how my Plugin folder looks like:

As you can see, I sort my plugins into many categories - mods, small adjustments, BATs, etc.

What you want, however, is to create a folder such as "g_Dependencies" which I have highlighted in the screenshot.

In there, I put all of the files that are specifically mentioned as "dependencies" by mod authors. And that's it - you can simply toss any such file in there.

[Pakistani890 122]

42 minutes ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Sure, no problem. 

Here's how my Plugin folder looks like:

As you can see, I sort my plugins into many categories - mods, small adjustments, BATs, etc.

What you want, however, is to create a folder such as "g_Dependencies" which I have highlighted in the screenshot.

In there, I put all of the files that are specifically mentioned as "dependencies" by mod authors. And that's it - you can simply toss any such file in there

OHHHH  I like the way u organized ur plugins through building types like the european one but can u tell me how to ... umm make the dependencies folder from inside

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

3 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

can u tell me how to ... umm make the dependencies folder from inside

I'm afraid that I don't have too much to say in this respect...  I just toss all of the dependencies into the "G" folder as they are, without any particular sub-folder structure.

The key is that they work and that they are all in one place, so I don't bother about this any further.

Maybe only when these suckers refuse to load one day, I will consider sub-folders.  For the time being I (mostly) leave them just like they have originally been packed.

[CorinaMarie 29,565]

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I just toss all of the dependencies into the "G" folder as they are, without any particular sub-folder structure.

That makes sense to me and I suspect there isn't a limit so they will continue to work.

Ofc, this brings up a question I'm curious about.

Until Project Zip is finished, there are still a lot of files which are only available as installers. Do you do anything special when running them? Like change the path to your "G" folder while running the installer? And if so, does that always work? I seem to recall a post from long ago where someone said a few ignore user selected paths. If that happens it might be difficult to find where they went to then move to said "G" folder.

When I was still using my old XP comp for the game, I used to rename my Plugins to Plugins-Hold, create a new empty Plugins, and only then run an installer. This allowed me to find exactly where it put the new stuff. Often times they were several folders deep so I would drill down to get just the folder and files needed and then move them to my Hold folder. When finished with whatever dep installs, I'd remove the temporary Plugins I made and rename my Hold one back to Plugins.

Ofc, this might seem like a convoluted way to go about it, but I did like that I knew exactly what was installed and where.

[Pakistani890 122]

Hmm @rsc204 so can i organize dependencies little bit like this:

and i am gonna make another folder outside for @mattb325 because i suspect that i will download a lot of his buildings

and also should i make folder for mattb325's buildings in the dependencies folder... like should because if for eg: BSC props are his building dependencies so they will go in the bsc folder

@CorinaMarie what is project zip??

[CorinaMarie 29,565]

21 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

@CorinaMarie what is project zip??

That's something @Tyberius06 has been working on for a long time. He is converting all the files which use a simple unpacking installer to be zip files instead. This means one no longer has to run said installer, but can open the zip file itself with standard tools and copy out the contents needed. (For complex mods, I believe he is keeping the installers, but I'm not completely sure of that.)

On this page at Devotion, I found where Tibi said this about Project Zip:

Quote

So far there isn't a dedicated public thread about Project ZIP, but it was mainly referenced in several posts under different topics on SC4Devotion and Simtropolis too. In short it's an effort to replace most of the *.exe installer based uploads (like most of the BSC creations here on LEX) on this exchange (later contents on the STEX might be involved as well) with simple ZIP based uploads. That means instead of going through on a lenghty installing process, now contents can be placed into the Plugins by unpacking the ZIPs (like most of the contents on Simtropolis). Also in the meantime we try to make attempts to fix some long standing issues and bugs with some contents. There are going to be some new or repackaged and/or expanded prop and texture packs (like this one), new or long lost contents from the LEX DVD etc... So far we finished uploading the waste vast majority of the dependency packs (around last Christmas by Tarkus), and currently we are processing the new dependency packs and the ones which will get technical updates. Later this year, we'll carry on replacing as much installer based contents as possible.

^ I made an edit for what I believe was a typo.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

Before we go any further - don't be mislead by the "Install_BSC..." folder names in my Plugins. These are actually already installed dependencies that I've just been too lazy to change folder names for. 

59 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Until Project Zip is finished, there are still a lot of files which are only available as installers. Do you do anything special when running them?

Like you said, I just run the installer and change the path to where I want them stored. It is an easy way to get everything to their desired places. 

59 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

And if so, does that always work? I seem to recall a post from long ago where someone said a few ignore user selected paths.

It did in 95% of cases. I remember two of my dependencies have been installed in the SC4-pathed "Plugins" folder for no apparent reason. I believe one of the BSC bundles behaves this way.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

This is all I keep in my Plugins-

Civic, Residential, Transportation and Utilities contain files I use for just about every project and come to about 50M. Landscape contains custom lots I make in LE, and usually is about 10M. MMP is about 350M, and the reason it's that big is because of all the tree sets, and is somewhat hard to remember all the Latin genus names. I use them a lot.

I also have a folder called Plugins Vault. I keep everything I ever downloaded in that(sorted, of course) and back it up on a hard drive, along with all my pics, region maps, etc.

I keep a pared-down NAM(about 550M) and any cheat and other mods, and all my dependencies in the (x86) Plugins, to insure I never pitch them by accident. RHW and RRW i only put in if I intend to use them for a project.

When I start a region, I make a folder with it's name, and put it in Plugins. In there, I gradually add stuff from the Plugins Vault as I go along, and pitch them when I finish the places I used them. If I need to test something, I simply pull the region folder, so I don't have to wade through a lot of files to find it. Most of the time, in projects, my combined Plugins weigh 1.5-1.7G.

There's no reason to have the Eiffel Tower in your Plugins, if your making a town in Iowa.

[Pakistani890 122]

hey @SIM-ple Jack and @TheMurderousCricket so should i dump dependencies in my plugin'd dependencies folder

and also i made few more folder

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

Yes, I would recommend so. 

On 19.06.2022 at 9:14 PM, SIM-ple Jack said:

There's no reason to have the Eiffel Tower in your Plugins, if your making a town in Iowa.

This is also a good piece of advice in the early stages of your Plugins organization. This way you can make sure that Plugins that are not used at the moment can be safely taken out of the folder and stored for the time when you switch regions or something.

(36 degrees?! Damn... )

[Pakistani890 122]

2 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

This is also a good piece of advice in the early stages of your Plugins organization. This way you can make sure that Plugins that are not used at the moment can be safely taken out of the folder and stored for the time when you switch regions or something.

ummm i didn't get that part

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

That indeed looks a bit convoluted now that I read my own words... 

It means that sometimes you may not want all of the plugins at once. Like Jack said - you don't need a Sydney Opera landmark if you are building a European town. You just remove said plugin then.

[Pakistani890 122]

18 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

That indeed looks a bit convoluted now that I read my own words... 

It means that sometimes you may not want all of the plugins at once. Like Jack said - you don't need a Sydney Opera landmark if you are building a European town. You just remove said plugin then

That is a big of a task here removing and adding plugins again and again, i will just not use it 

[Pakistani890 122]

Also can u also tell me which folders to add in my plugins & dependencies folder

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

22 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

That is a big of a task here removing and adding plugins again and again, i will just not use it 

I don't know. Which takes less time? Picking out exactly what you want to use for a region...or waiting 15 to 20 minutes for your game to load because you've got 10G in your folder? Not to mention,  wading through all of that in your menus. I know most of my plugins, so I know exactly what I need for the region I'm working on. Of course, I've re-named and Files2Dat-ted most of my files to cut down on confusion, such as "BillyBuddy's Happy Time Super Cool Large Police Station" becomes "Large Police Station". 

[TheMurderousCricket 5,042]

24 minutes ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Not to mention,  wading through all of that in your menus.

Hear, hear. 

I sometimes just remove the .dats which actually add the menu items and keep the dependency .dat files only.

[Pakistani890 122]

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

2 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

That is a big of a task here removing and adding plugins again and again, i will just not use it 

I don't know. Which takes less time? Picking out exactly what you want to use for a region...or waiting 15 to 20 minutes for your game to load because you've got 10G in your folder? Not to mention,  wading through all of that in your menus. I know most of my plugins, so I know exactly what I need for the region I'm working on. Of course, I've re-named and Files2Dat-ted most of my files to cut down on confusion, such as "BillyBuddy's Happy Time Super Cool Large Police Station" becomes "Large Police Station". 

Hey @SIM-ple Jack here's a problem i don't know what to use in my region until i start playing and the desire to add buildings increase over time and also i am bit scared i might accidently copy it somewhere else or mess up after that it's hard to recognize what is missing or i might not even know something is gone

 

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

2 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Not to mention,  wading through all of that in your menus.

Hear, hear. 

I sometimes just remove the .dats which actually add the menu items and keep the dependency .dat files only.

I agree with the menu point but didnt understand the second point

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

23 minutes ago, Pakistani890 said:

Hey @SIM-ple Jack here's a problem i don't know what to use in my region until i start playing and the desire to add buildings increase over time and also i am bit scared i might accidently copy it somewhere else or mess up after that it's hard to recognize what is missing or i might not even know something is gone

Which is why I told you to make some kind of vault or safe, and copy files you intend to use from it. When I start a region, I come up with some kind of game plan- for instance, the one I'm working on right now-

A large metropolis surrounded by poor, rural towns. The towns will take much fewer files to create than the big city, so I concentrate on finishing those first. Then I take those files out and pitch them(remember, copies) and load up everything I need for the big city. That city is split up into like 16 tiles, so as I go along finishing them, I start getting rid of things I don't intend to use again in that city. The rest of the stuff you see on that map, currently is not in my plugins. If I go back into them and save, there'd be brown boxes everywhere. This same technique can be applied to regions you actually play. Just use more Maxis stuff, and less custom content.

[Pakistani890 122]

23 hours ago, SIM-ple Jack said:

Which is why I told you to make some kind of vault or safe, and copy files you intend to use from it. When I start a region, I come up with some kind of game plan- for instance, the one I'm working on right now-

A large metropolis surrounded by poor, rural towns. The towns will take much fewer files to create than the big city, so I concentrate on finishing those first. Then I take those files out and pitch them(remember, copies) and load up everything I need for the big city. That city is split up into like 16 tiles, so as I go along finishing them, I start getting rid of things I don't intend to use again in that city. The rest of the stuff you see on that map, currently is not in my plugins. If I go back into them and save, there'd be brown boxes everywhere. This same technique can be applied to regions you actually play. Just use more Maxis stuff, and less custom content.

Vault you mean online??

[CorinaMarie 29,565]

3 hours ago, Pakistani890 said:

Vault you mean online??

I interpret that as meaning a folder that is not in the Documents\SimCity\Plugins folder and which will contain the original files as you downloaded them so they are safe from any tweaking or testing you do within your Plugins folder.

Then as an extra precaution you can keep a copy of that "vault" folder in another location. For me, I like to use synchronization software so the backup copies don't need me to manually do anything.