Natural Growth Philosophies / Mindsets

[Daeris 1,116]

That's very interesting, thank you @Lucario Boricua. Out of curiosity, what is preventing NAM from adding both variations of placement options, giving more versatility? Also, not sure if you saw my other related posts, but do you know why the flex piece doesn't seem to like transitioning from 1 street into a perpendicular different street?

[Lucario Boricua 7,048]

On the position of the VCL / construction handle of the FLEX pieces. In many cases it's doable, but it's at the cost of lengthening the rotation of the piece. For simpler pieces, this can be very doable, an orthogonal piece needs at a bare minimum 4 position (4 rotations), but you can also orient the piece in the opposite direction for each rotation (adds another 4 rotations), or alternatively put a longitudinal and a lateral VCL position (each one needs 4 rotations at its simplest). With diagonal pieces it's a bit more complex because those require 8 rotations to cover the basic alignments, as diagonal networks are alternations of two network textures or models if they're not symmetrical. Curves are more complicated because those also have to consider the orientation of the curve (ex. turning left, turning right, or if it's an asymmetrical network, which lanes are outside or inside of the curve), same with ramps.

The programming logic is very scalable, done through RUL0, but it does become tedious because it also requires preparing the matching preview models for each orientation.

As for why the SAM-SAM transition piece doesn't work immediately adjacent to an intersection, that's because the piece was only programmed to override along straight orthogonal network segments. Adding intersection support, while doable, would add a lot of RUL2 code, and we'd need to decide which intersections are worth supporting. Stuff like a 90° bend, a 45° bend, a T intersection and a + intersection make sense, but further intersection orientations are harder to justify as they'd get less use than the 4 basic configurations I just listed.

[Propfam 2,295]

6 hours ago, Lucario Boricua said:

As for why the SAM-SAM transition piece doesn't work immediately adjacent to an intersection, that's because the piece was only programmed to override along straight orthogonal network segments.

I always thought it's just a stability issue. I have a habit of running a street long enough to fix and yet, the problem still persisted. It turns out that we simply don't program it. Thanks for the info!

By the way, with diag street being easier to plop, can we add support for SAM-SAM on ortho x diag and diag x diag? And also, support for WRC x ortho, I guess?

And yes, I agree the VCL should be under the cursor since I have so many erroneous bulldozing because of that. We can start with ortho and diag tho, the rest can be added later.

[Lucario Boricua 7,048]

Adding more SAM transition supports isn't as high of a priority for the NAM team, right now we're more interested in doing so for the RealHighway. The good news is there is a workaround available, you can run a really short road stub in-between different SAM networks, and the textures of these transitions are designed such that the transition cell is almost entirely Street / SAM, leaving a tiny sliver of road pavement. You can use this for diagonal SAM situations, intersection-adjacent situations, or situations near curves.

[JeffSalisbury 59]

It's interesting. I've tried to have a more natural growth philosophy over the years, but always come back to an extremely, almost robotic unnatural look to my cities. They tend to either be pockets of R surrounded by C and I, or bands of R between bands of C with bands of I at both ends (my current city I'm working on).

[Daeris 1,116]

Hi @JeffSalisbury, welcome to the party. Thanks for commenting! If you're comfortable, maybe share a few pics of some examples of how your cities look. Those of us who practice this style can give some pointers. I'm very much still learning myself but I'm happy to share any insights I do have. One thing @CorinaMarie helped me realize is that actually most cities historically had grid-like development with their streets (at least US cities). What has really helped me keep a natural growth look in my latest region is telling a story with my settlers expanding, so I only do things I think they would realistically do. This helps keep me grounded in what is plausible and what would be natural growth for them. Also, from a technical standpoint: learning the street-leveling tactic, learning how to zone farms where I want them (as well as learning how to surround those farms with overgrowth) have been game-changers for me!

Oh if you haven't seen my CJ where I'm practicing everything I've learned, you can do so here:

 

[JeffSalisbury 59]

Life with two kids under 5 has made finding time to tend to my city of Goodison (and I'm not even an Everton supporter!) a near impossibility. Once I am able to get back into it, I'll grab some screens to share here and the thread on road-less transportation I started.

One thing I'll say for myself is I'm definitely borderline OCD when it comes to having symmetry in my cities. If you were to fold them in half they'd be almost identical.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 10/7/2024 at 3:02 PM, JeffSalisbury said:

It's interesting. I've tried to have a more natural growth philosophy over the years, but always come back to an extremely, almost robotic unnatural look to my cities. They tend to either be pockets of R surrounded by C and I, or bands of R between bands of C with bands of I at both ends (my current city I'm working on).

Remember that 'C' thrives on traffic volume, so set your traffic map to *volume* and zone accordingly (only when a road or avenue turns from blue to yellow-green or better).

As for industrial, please "upgrade" to the mod that sorts dirty from clean (I think it's IRM). After that's done, then restrict industrial (other than farms) to bands along heavy rail.

[Daeris 1,116]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:10 PM, JeffSalisbury said:

Life with two kids under 5 has made finding time to tend to my city of Goodison (and I'm not even an Everton supporter!) a near impossibility. Once I am able to get back into it, I'll grab some screens to share here and the thread on road-less transportation I started.

One thing I'll say for myself is I'm definitely borderline OCD when it comes to having symmetry in my cities. If you were to fold them in half they'd be almost identical.

The symmetry sounds neat! We all need and have our own little city-building quirks. We play SC4, which represents the pinnacle of Maxis' achievements; it's practically a requirement for us to be quirky. =D Aka reticulate your splines!

[JeffSalisbury 59]

On 10/24/2024 at 8:44 PM, Daeris said:

The symmetry sounds neat! We all need and have our own little city-building quirks. We play SC4, which represents the pinnacle of Maxis' achievements; it's practically a requirement for us to be quirky. =D Aka reticulate your splines!

I look at some of the custom lots that folks like EffTheGrid have made over the years, and I just can never see myself using them. Breaking away from the grid almost makes me hyperventilate 

[Daeris 1,116]

My region is growing more and more and I'm closing in on my next CJ update soon.

That said, I've started to notice some trash in my cities; I guess nobody taught my sims any manners.

Now that I've noticed this, I'm likely going to add this as a topic in my next CJ update, and I'm guessing my sims will need to figure out where they plan to dump their garbage. Since as you all know I"m kinda big on natural growth, I've done a little research into the history of waste management, dating back to 3000 BC (that we know of): https://www.commercialzone.com/a-brief-history-of-waste-management/

I haven't really applied an official year to my sim's world, but I suppose in my imagination they are just before an industrial revolution, so likely the equivalent of around 1750 or so. These two entries from the article I linked seem to apply to me presently.

• 1657 | New Amsterdam (now Manhattan, New York City) passes the first anti-littering law, making it illegal to throw or leave waste in the streets.
• 1757 | Ben Franklin starts the first street cleaning service and encourages the public to dig pits in the earth to dispose of waste.

So I think at first I'll start by turning on the "Paper Waste Reduction Program" city ordinance, but as I mentioned above I for sure need to start thinking about a more suitable solution for the here and now. First incinerators weren't really popular until the late 1800s I'm seeing, and my region isn't quite of that equivalent tech yet. I noticed other than landfills I don't really have any waste management options. I've perused the STEX but wasn't able to see much other than maybe Lifelike Landfills, so I was curious if anyone is aware of any garbage/landfill/waste management mods that might go well with a natural growth approach? Even if you don't have any mod suggestions I'd be interested in hearing about or seeing your approach to landfills and waste management. How do you choose what tile is the garbage city?

UPDATE: I've come to learn that before landfills most villages used what is usually known as a midden, or essentially a pit for dumping their trash in. I am still researching middens, but I believe most of them were found along coasts and shorelines: https://www.thoughtco.com/midden-an-archaeological-garbage-dump-171806

 

[CorinaMarie 29,857]

8 hours ago, Daeris said:

Even if you don't have any mod suggestions I'd be interested in hearing about or seeing your approach to landfills and waste management.

Most of mine go with Landfills for their first few hundred years or even forever. One of my very best (as judged by @Naomi57 long ago) is where there's a depression in the corner of my world and that's where I zone the landfill:

 

And turning the world 90°:

 

Remember too, you only need one working landfill for the entire city tile to utilize it. Even unconnected areas will magically teleport their garbage to it.

In the last year or so of playing (before I disappeared for a couple of years), I'd found the SimCity 3000 recreation of its Incinerator and started using that. Might be by @cogeo? I'd have to look, but I'll skip that since your civilization isn't ready for it.

[Daeris 1,116]

Thanks Cori, I think I"m going to do something similar in most tiles then, as that's kinda the middens-like approach, and yeah I figured I'd try to hide them in little depressions. I'll have to look for that sc3000 incinerator. While I don't need it now I could use it later for sure.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,085]

I think you might be interested in this short analysis I made back in the days:

Garbage handling is really not the best aspect of SC4 and it just shows. On many occasions.

[Daeris 1,116]

Thanks @TheMurderousCricket that is very helpful, I"ll likely download that mod you linked in your thread which increases the decomp rate. Also I think I'll use this incinerator once my sims develop this tech (they are very close to something like this:

@CorinaMarie do you know if this is the incinerator you were talking about?

[CorinaMarie 29,857]

1 hour ago, Daeris said:

@CorinaMarie do you know if this is the incinerator you were talking about?

Yep, I do know. And nope, that's not the one I use. Ofc, I'm not saying anything against that one, but merely the very first incinerator I found was the SC3000 Style Incinerator so it's the one I fell in love with.

Ofc, I then I also tweak the Age degradation rate to 0 since I'm not keen on replacing utilities again and again. (Yes, it's cheating. But I pretend the monthly cost includes ongoing maintenance.)

[Daeris 1,116]

Hello everyone, just wanted to report that I've submit my latest entry into my natural growth CJ!

This is my largest entry yet; I apologize for getting carried away!

There is some interactive voting as usual, and I'd love your feedback on how you feel my settlers would naturally react to the problems they face. Thanks!

 

[Daeris 1,116]

Quick update that I've started using AI (in the form of ChatGPT) to help me develop my CJ! Last night I had one of the most productive conversations with ChatGPT about natural resources, the type of lands those resources are found in, where they might be placed in my game, and how simulated settlers might discover such resources. It was honestly really helpful for me to plan ahead a bit in terms of where resources will be in my region.

Unfortunately, I've come to notice there aren't a lot of "early" mining lots available in STEX, I have some lots but not nearly as much as I would prefer. If anyone has and tips on strip mines or vertical mines, or salt/coal/iron/copper/other resource deposits, please share. I might have some of the more well known ones, but if there are any lesser known files I might not have them yet.

Anyways back to AI, I was also thinking I might use Midjourney to develop more conceptual pictures of my region. In fact, I wanted to do this for my last 2 entries, but truth be told I get so excited about making a post when I'm ready, that I just move forward without the additional AI art. Mainly because adding AI art will take extra time, and my CJ posts already take me a bit of time to put together. I also considered letting ChatGPT write some of my next CJ entry, but we'll see.

Anyone else dabble with AI tools for their CJ, or plan to?

[felipz_07 1]

Hi. I was looking into your older entries and I noticed that you have been using the traffic simulator tool and set it to “low.” I was just wondering if in a realistic standpoint, you know like in real life, that setting just feels like real life when it comes to traffic volume on roads and stuff?

I have started multiple attempts to simulate natural growth under “ultra” settings and it may have unrealistically high capacity for even the smallest streets/roads so I was looking into switching to “low” if it gives the game more realism, traffic wise.

[Daeris 1,116]

20 hours ago, felipz_07 said:

Hi. I was looking into your older entries and I noticed that you have been using the traffic simulator tool and set it to “low.” I was just wondering if in a realistic standpoint, you know like in real life, that setting just feels like real life when it comes to traffic volume on roads and stuff?

I have started multiple attempts to simulate natural growth under “ultra” settings and it may have unrealistically high capacity for even the smallest streets/roads so I was looking into switching to “low” if it gives the game more realism, traffic wise.

Hello @felipz_07, thank you for reading some of this thread!

Yes, you nailed it... setting traffic at low capacity to start definitely seems more realistic for me, especially when you consider I'm acting like my region isn't even in a booming industrial revolution yet. So it makes more sense for me to set it to low. I've been a bit busy with work, but I'll try to get some screenshots of my traffic overlays, which are still all bright green. I remember before I set it to low, the traffic congestion seemed a bit unnatural for what I was going for.

Actually thanks for reminding me! Haha. I will eventually need to re-adjust this setting, but I think I'm still a ways off from needing to do that.

[felipz_07 1]

I do remember CSG saying somethingabout promoting longer commute times (couldn’t remember verbatim as the message was more a decade ago lol) as one of the reasons he set his to “ultra.” I don’t know how accurate this might be on your city though cause I still have to dig into your other posts 😅

[EffTheGrid 3,711]

Hi - I'd just like to enter the chat and show you all how this parcel came to be developed over many years. Please excuse my lack of historical photos but I'll do my best to diagram it out, in case it's not obvious from the air. Starting from regional view, here's the area we're looking up-close at today: Grove Point

Our focus is on the western side of this skinny seaside peninsula, situated between the ocean and a minor regional shipping channel.

It's a few miles from the downtown and historical hub of the city, so the beachfront land was developed around the turn of the 20th century into bucolic streetcar suburbs of a bustling portside city. The eastern sliver of the peninsula is occupied by the City of Portsmouth - though the areas are very tightly knit and interdependent, residents can feel at-odds with one-another due to differences in class, geography, lifestyle and access to amenities.

These are the Portsmouth Beaches - represented below are 4 distinct areas with different governing bodies, and vibes.

Who can see the borders from space?

Here's a closer look:

There are 4 main players. From the north, there's:

(The Village of) Grove Point: Centuries ago, this was a historic fishing outpost, which later turned into a desirable streetcar suburb, and later, boardwalk destination. The village was chartered before any suburban development encroached on its natural beauty, and locals enjoyed 100 years of quiet seaside life among egrets and the spray. After another 100 years of overdevelopment, the streetcars have stopped running and beachgoers turn to the more accessible Ft. Pontus beaches to the south. Now "the point" is mainly comprised of working-class residents, and retirees----they appreciate access to unspoiled beaches and a friendly downtown --- and they don't mind the lead in the pipes or the rainbow sheen on the water.

Portsmouth City: Represented on the eastern-adjacent tile, this city is the industrial nexus of the Western Channel ---- it is a rail terminus and seaport hub, and residents are primarily lower-income unskilled workers. The city is more densely developed ---- the city had different regulations and zoning codes in place, and much of the (not-pictured) inner city came up earlier --- however the western portion of the city represented here was developed around the same time as the adjacent beach towns. West Portsmouth is often decried as the "snobby" neighborhood by Eastern and Old Ward residents ---- but it's a cultural hub----there's mixed crowd with some big bucks walking down Division Avenue nowadays. Some people move to "Div" for the "street cred" of having a Portsmouth address, while enjoying a luxurious lifestyle.

You can see how businesses were built along the historic old streetcar routes, and development sprawled from there.

Town of Portsmouth Beach: Anybody from Portsmouth Beach will be quick to correct you if you wrongly assert they're from Portsmouth ----- the audacity! Portsmouth Beach prides itself on being everything its neighbors are not - it's a secluded, snobby enclave. The streets are wooded, and the homes are mostly single-family and evenly spaced. The town is centered around a reclaimed tidal marsh, providing a site to develop 70-acres of parkland. The freshwater lake drains through an underwater culvert to the ocean, providing drainage to the town's highlands, which ascend the wooded bluff to the north, overlooking the ocean and the point. Where there are not direct ocean views, residents enjoy looking over the ridge to the bay and the city skyline to the east.

The development style changes quickly when crossing city borders.

Fort Pontus is a sprawling coastal city to the south of the tile whose tendrils crept up to the boundary line of Portsmouth. The more dense housing is reflective of the offerings there.

I loved developing this tile because it was a joy to reflect on the influences that would shape each network and each block.

First I drew arterials and then I connected them as if I was purchasing the land to develop in parcels.

Here's a diagram of the process of connecting the village of grove point in a way that was cohesive and realistic. 

I started with a grid of tight roads then connected them to existing networks, while acknowledging natural features along the way. That's it!  

This was a real challenge as to figuring out a beautiful and realistic gradient of density to pursue in connecting a harsh urban setting with bucolic seaside highlands.

Love to imagine the vibe everywhere I go within this map. It really feels like a real place to me. 

One of my favorite small moments is the north end of Division Avenue. If a driver turns right into Portsmouth, they will see smokestacks and warehouses across the water when they complete their turn. But if they make a left into Grove Point, they will see a pretty patch of trees, then a leveed freshwater pond through the forest. It's just a thoughtful nuance that implies a total change of scenery, and destination, and sense of place. All for an imagined border down the middle of a road.

Glad I found this group. Thanks for reading

More to come - I'll show the neighbors next time.

cheers! 

[CorinaMarie 29,857]

28 minutes ago, EffTheGrid said:

Hi - I'd just like to enter the chat and show you all how this parcel came to be developed over many years.

Hiya!

I really enjoyed that. You've created the natural growth realistically and described it nicely so we can all ride along.

[Daeris 1,116]

Yeah! Thank you for reading and sharing that awesome post @EffTheGrid! Very very cool, and you've definitely embraced the natural growth style! I appreciate you sharing, because I often refer back to many of the visuals in this thread when I am thinking about how my villages will expand. My villages still have a bit more winding-path vibes (as one of the previous posts showed off some early European villages I believe). My villages are mostly focused on fishing, farming, logging, and mining still. However, in time I hope to see them expand into full-fledged towns and even would like a downtown metropolis to pop up somewhere. I hope I can expand in a similar way to what you demonstrated.

Would love to see more from you, so don't be shy if you ever want to share more. Do you have a CJ as well?

PS: Oh oh, also I wanted to point out that it appears your understanding and use of the NAM road angles is phenomenal. How did you learn all that? I'm still using NAM streets so that's another reason my villages are more windy-pathed. I don't think the streets can create the same angles the roads can. But once I upgrade to roads I plan to make more use of the road angles like it appears you are.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,085]

4 hours ago, Daeris said:

I wanted to point out that it appears your understanding and use of the NAM road angles is phenomenal.

If you mean FAR3&4 road networks, they are pretty straightforward to build. It takes a skill however to include reasonable development near them. Something that @EffTheGrid obviously achieved.

Transitions from FAR 3 into 4 and of both FARs into diagonals are harder though. But the results are almost always pleasing to the eye. I did some when I attempted to create a half-circle shaped commercial zone. Eventually I didn't, because I later developed a natural area which blocks away further road turns. But nonetheless the transitions remain for future reference.

[EffTheGrid 3,711]

Presenting: Hemden

a work in progress

Named for the area around the Hemden Creek (pun: "hemmed in by the creek") , this tile encompasses a swath containing diverse topography and essential city infrastructure.

The grid is laid out with NW-SE roads for the local roads, E-W streets for local streets, and NE-SW arterials for connections to the downtown core of the city.

Diagonally, middle of the map is sliced in half by 2 highways, the (unfinished junction of the) Inner Belt Parkway and the Central Artery.

Take a look at how the highway has both torn apart the fabric of the city, and created new enclaves with distinct boundaries.

Moving west, the inner-city.

Cool to watch the buildings change.

I like to see the gradual transition of density offset by the stark collision of specific building styles representing eras of construction.

Below we can see the 6 Points area, with Goniffs Point Ave running orthogonally at an angle north and south.

This area is a major industrial corridor, with hundreds of warehouse and commercial spaces in the district between Rosemond Avenue and the expressway.

This area was inspired by parts of the outer boroughs, namely Red Hook, College Point, the areas around Newtown Creek, Greenpoint, and little pieces of Flushing.

Not only is the highway a major industrial corridor, but also are the flats down by the industrial kill.

6 Points is also the main entrance into the Goniffs Point section.

It's densely residential, and working class. The area spans the corners of 3 separate tiles so it's often neglected and lacks good services.

And just a short float over the Hemden Creek is the historical Hemden Mill Town, now designated the historic Milltown District.

Residents in this area might actually enjoy the seclusion the highways bring. Thanks to sound walls,  strict local zoning rules and historical building covenants make sure their side of the creek remains relatively calm and unchanged, as the city expands all around.

Old single family houses are prevalent ---- and most homes have their own yards. The "president streets" enjoy townhouse living and tight walkable blocks while "tree streets" enjoy convenient access to the Inner Parkway marginal road!

The "tree streets" were originally not part of Milltown, but built later on as the "Chestnut Park" development. A scenic parkway with a wide tree-lined median was constructed down the middle of the neighborhood, called Chestnut Parkway.

Many years later when the freeway was routed, the Chestnut Park alignment was chosen for several reasons:

1.  because home values here were proportionally low here at the time,
2.  the neighborhood was comparatively less densely settled than the blocks east and west.
3.  the grassy parkway provided an easy center for the route's right of way.

There was much outcry from residents --- and yet, the freeways came through anyway.

Still, many homes and several businesses were raised to run the highway through, and many say Chestnut Hill lost its character and identity, in its namesake tree-lined boulevard.

That's the lore: really, I just tried to connect the roads as best I could.

The story is inspired by real-life East Orange and Irvington NJ, and the destruction of Oraton Parkway to build the Garden State Pkwy.

I will show more as the map develops! Other areas are still incomplete.

Thanks for watching  

[TheMurderousCricket 5,085]

[EffTheGrid 3,711]

On 2/8/2025 at 2:37 PM, CorinaMarie said:

I really enjoyed that. You've created the natural growth realistically and described it nicely so we can all ride along.

Thanks Cori! I usually hesitate to share unfinished projects but there are moments they just come alive and jump off the page -- I know you know that feeling  

Plus, sharing projects motivates me to "finish" the scenes with a greater degree of "done-ness".

Appreciate the kind words.

On 2/8/2025 at 11:16 PM, Daeris said:

Very very cool, and you've definitely embraced the natural growth style! I appreciate you sharing, because I often refer back to many of the visuals in this thread when I am thinking about how my villages will expand.

Thank you as well! I do the same thing --- it's great to see how others approach development, layout, and balancing historical accuracy with the hard limitations of the game.

On 2/8/2025 at 11:16 PM, Daeris said:

use of the NAM road angles is phenomenal. How did you learn all that? I'm still using NAM streets so that's another reason my villages are more windy-pathed. I don't think the streets can create the same angles the roads can. But once I upgrade to roads I plan to make more use of the road angles like it appears you are.

This is the reason I usually start with paved roads --- I wish the SAM came with draggable FA, otherwise I would do what you do. But I use roads to represent streets, one-ways, etc. when I need to... with the hope that one day they will code the pieces in that we need and I could override

But for now, I really like the aesthetic of the angled roadways and haven't really noticed the pavement markings as being "off" --- I kinda play in the 20th century mostly anyway.

On 2/8/2025 at 11:16 PM, Daeris said:

How did you learn all that?

It took me FOREVER to get  the draw pattern right. I just followed the contours of the land with the roads and let the topography decide where to take the networks.

Sometimes I'd mess up and go off the trail, climbing a hillside or descending a riverbank -- then it's time to go back 200 ft and turn the road to a different angle!

It feels cool wondering how far sims would trail from the riverbed and set up their homes?

This is the way the roads were founded where I'm from. There's an urban legend that the roads up here were Indian walking paths. Which is true! We had creekbeds that became post roads, pikes that became state routes, and every classification of road follows the local topography, or at least allows it to inform it.

I'm gonna post this in the anti-grid spotlight too --- it's a quick reference for any readers who aren't familiar with the basic draw patterns for draggable FAR -- there are 2 angles provided, and they're drawn with adjacent roads in segments like this. So you start with a circle (stub),  and end with a stub to complete segments. The segments are slope tolerant and generate sidewalks, lights and trees. (unlike the old ploppable FAR) so this makes development alongside them more interesting and realistic.

The FAR pieces are the reason I got back into the game, and started creating cc! I love the versatility! 

I frequent the showcase threads but I've never found this more conceptual area before. I'll try to post more analytical content here and keep the story-based lore over at the other areas.

Thank you for the enthusiasm, all!  

[felipz_07 1]

Is there a still downloadable and useable plugin for small, like village and small town level seaport that we can still download? Cause I wanted my region to have that kind of realistic feel that’s rooted on natural growth philosophies that have been discussed in this thread and I feel like lacking a functional small seaport ain’t cutting it 😅

[Daeris 1,116]

10 hours ago, felipz_07 said:

Is there a still downloadable and useable plugin for small, like village and small town level seaport that we can still download? Cause I wanted my region to have that kind of realistic feel that’s rooted on natural growth philosophies that have been discussed in this thread and I feel like lacking a functional small seaport ain’t cutting it 😅

I use BSC Functional Seaports... but I'm reading this might be a broken mod. And I also can't locate it anymore. I'll have to do more reading here as to how this is broken, because I've been a bit reliant on it so far in my region.

Another option is for you to produce an aest hetic-only port using Historic Harbor, which I also rely on: