Game crash when plopping sickest file ever!

[nickvon 161]

I found these under El rail shops from deadwood over on SC4.  Now that I've written that maybe I should try posting over there!?  Anyway,  love these.  So realistic,  I noticed these in Berlin last time I was there and its such an efficient use of space.  Have to have them in my city.  The problem is that once I turn the game speed off of pause I crash.   I did the thing like take everything out of my plugin folder except for dependencies including the NAM but no difference.  I'm curious, what do you do when this happens?  Thanks in advance.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, nickvon said:

I found these under El rail shops from deadwood over on SC4.

A good way to start is to provide a clickable linky so peeps can check out the file without needing to research it.

I believe you are referring to DEDWD ElRail Shops BSC.

 

I've plopped each of the 4 in a test city, ran time on high speed, and didn't have a crash so this is quite puzzling why they might be the cause of a crash for you.

[nickvon 161]

1 minute ago, CorinaMarie said:

A good way to start is to provide a clickable linky so peeps can check out the file without needing to research it.

I believe you are referring to DEDWD ElRail Shops BSC.

 

I've plopped each of the 4 in a test city, ran time on high speed, and didn't have a crash so this is quite puzzling why they might be the cause of a crash for you.

You're right.  I should've included a link within the post.  

 

[Tyberius06 12,189]

14 hours ago, nickvon said:

I found these under El rail shops from deadwood over on SC4.  Now that I've written that maybe I should try posting over there!?  Anyway,  love these.  So realistic,  I noticed these in Berlin last time I was there and its such an efficient use of space.  Have to have them in my city.  The problem is that once I turn the game speed off of pause I crash.   I did the thing like take everything out of my plugin folder except for dependencies including the NAM but no difference.  I'm curious, what do you do when this happens?  Thanks in advance.

Could you try the attached files? From the zip copy the deadwood folder into your plugin folder and let it overwrite the files what are in you plugin folder. Or if you changed the originally provided path by the installer, then please locate the original LOT files (only the sc4lot files) and replace them with these from this zip. 

Let me know that you still get crashes with the new files.

Also @nickvon, I didn't have much time, but yepp, answering to your question with regarding the PEG ports, they will be updated soon, but currently I'm a bit busy... These recent MAC bugs were not around in the past years and probably you will find many contents which have similiar issues. Please report everything what you find, but it will take some time, while we will be able to fix all of them.

13 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I've plopped each of the 4 in a test city, ran time on high speed, and didn't have a crash so this is quite puzzling why they might be the cause of a crash for you.

Cori, do you have MAC system? I think it's a MAC transit bug again (I'll wait for Nicknov report, if the new files are working to confirm that theory), which hasn't caused significant error so far, but now somehow it causes game crashes.

- Tyberius

  Edited May 18, 2020 by Tyberius06  
removed attachment due to the official fix is now available

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

Cori, do you have MAC system? I think it's a MAC transit bug again.

Ah! No, I used Win 7 for my test.

[nickvon 161]

Wow thanks @Tyberius06!  I don't know how you do it, but you do it.  It works now.  Can't wait to implement it. 

 

I've been noticing more and more things that cause crashing, even NAM stuff.  I just can't help but feel like a pain if I'm constantly posting about everything crashing my computer when I can't do a single thing about it.  With the exception of getting a new computer.  Anyway, would you prefer it if I make a post everytime I crash?  Or should I compile a list and post that periodically?  Thanks so much!

[xxdita 1,097]

BSC actually has someone handling tech support, thanks. 

I have made the necessary MAC corrections and updated the file on the LEX. So the previously attached files can be removed, please. 

@nickvon, I believe most of your issues with downloaded files will be MAC-specific, so it would probably help everyone involved for you to post future threads in the MAC support area of the forum. It's definitely not your fault. And we do appreciate you finding these errors so that they can be corrected. 

[rsc204 21,808]

43 minutes ago, nickvon said:

I've been noticing more and more things that cause crashing, even NAM stuff.  I just can't help but feel like a pain if I'm constantly posting about everything crashing my computer when I can't do a single thing about it.

As has been explained, certain things that worked just fine, (or at least didn't lead to CTDs), prior to a recent 64-bit update of SC4, which is currently only available for Mac users on the App Store, suddenly seem to cause bigger issues. It's not really fair to talk about these things as errors, for the most part those creating such content would have found no problems during testing. The tool designed for making TE lots, actually alters or adds the incorrect value when files are saved, explaining why this problem (Rep Count 1 for Transit Switch Properties), exists so comprehensively in the first place. Yet unless you are playing on a Mac, a user or modder would never be aware anything was wrong with it.

As such, the more content we know of that has problems, enables the wider community to correct the files for the benefit of all Mac users. So please don't feel bad about alerting us when you find such a problem. If more people actually took the time, many of these files would have been updated long-ago. When everyone says nothing, issues aren't brought into the spotlight and remain unknown. Bear in mind too, almost all SC4 development is done in Windows, probably 90% of SC4 players use Windows too. We're not going to be having these problems and are not going to notice/report them if the Mac users don't.

[nickvon 161]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

As has been explained, certain things that worked just fine, (or at least didn't lead to CTDs), prior to a recent 64-bit update of SC4, which is currently only available for Mac users on the App Store, suddenly seem to cause bigger issues. It's not really fair to talk about these things as errors, for the most part those creating such content would have found no problems during testing. The tool designed for making TE lots, actually alters or adds the incorrect value when files are saved, explaining why this problem (Rep Count 1 for Transit Switch Properties), exists so comprehensively in the first place. Yet unless you are playing on a Mac, a user or modder would never be aware anything was wrong with it.

As such, the more content we know of that has problems, enables the wider community to correct the files for the benefit of all Mac users. So please don't feel bad about alerting us when you find such a problem. If more people actually took the time, many of these files would have been updated long-ago. When everyone says nothing, issues aren't brought into the spotlight and remain unknown. Bear in mind too, almost all SC4 development is done in Windows, probably 90% of SC4 players use Windows too. We're not going to be having these problems and are not going to notice/report them if the Mac users don't.

 

2 hours ago, xxdita said:

BSC actually has someone handling tech support, thanks. 

I have made the necessary MAC corrections and updated the file on the LEX. So the previously attached files can be removed, please. 

@nickvon, I believe most of your issues with downloaded files will be MAC-specific, so it would probably help everyone involved for you to post future threads in the MAC support area of the forum. It's definitely not your fault. And we do appreciate you finding these errors so that they can be corrected. 

Thanks for the support everyone!  I know this thread has gotten a little off topic, but I have one more question while I have everyones attention.  No need to answer either.  Would it be worth it to try this same plugins folder in a copy of the game downloaded from Steam?  Doing research I found some interesting notions that these copies of the game could be different?  It would be worth it for me to spend the $20 or so to see if anything changes I think...

[xxdita 1,097]

1 minute ago, nickvon said:

Thanks for the support everyone!  I know this thread has gotten a little off topic, but I have one more question while I have everyones attention.  No need to answer either.  Would it be worth it to try this same plugins folder in a copy of the game downloaded from Steam?  Doing research I found some  interesting notions that these copies of the game could be different?  It would be worth it for me to spend the $20 or so to see if anything changes I think...

That would be an issue to discuss with MAC users. 

Honestly, you'll still have the same problems with the same files, but it may be less severe. So I don't think it makes that much of a difference. 

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, nickvon said:

Would it be worth it to try this same plugins folder in a copy of the game downloaded from Steam?  Doing research I found some interesting notions that these copies of the game could be different?  It would be worth it for me to spend the $20 or so to see if anything changes I think...

The Steam (Mac) version is the same as the App store version, only as of now, it's not received the 64-bit update. So indeed, these issues aren't likely to lead to CTDs running the 32-bit game, but they do screw up the station capacities, making them less useful.

I personally wouldn't spend the money, when Steam update to the 64-bit version (i.e. the current App Store one), you may no longer be able to use the older release. Even if Steam don't force you to update to keep playing, most of these issues can surely be solved, the fix is actually very quick. Fixing all the content with these erroneous values would have no negative affect for users of older Mac versions of SC4, whilst allowing them to continue to be used with the current one. Philosophically speaking, that's surely a much better outcome for the wider community and Mac players especially.

It doesn't help that the modding tools needed to fix these problems are Windows-only applications. So of course, Mac players with the problems are for the most part reliant on others to make this right.

[xxdita 1,097]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Yet unless you are playing on a Mac, a user or modder would never be aware anything was wrong with it.

I've never owned a MAC and I've known about the transit bug for well over a decade, and diagnosed the recent CTD's due to the slope bugs. 

Reading is fundamental. 

[Tyberius06 12,189]

4 minutes ago, xxdita said:

I've never owned a MAC and I've known about the transit bug for well over a decade, and diagnosed the recent CTD's due to the slope bugs. 

Reading is fundamental. 

Let's not start an other blaming cunami, and who should know what. I wouldn't have know about this bug if Brian didn't get involved testing my GLR stations. 

90% of the community doesn't know anything about this bug, because they have never met with it. It applies for lotters and BATters in the past and in present. 

You make a lot, make it transit enabled and you would never think that it can cause any problem, because you wouldn't be aware of the existence of the problem at the first place. 

So it's not so black and white. 

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

I've never owned a MAC and I've known about the transit bug for well over a decade, and diagnosed the recent CTD's due to the slope bugs. 

Reading is fundamental. 

You know as a NAM team member and being in charge of RTMT, I am also very familiar with this issue.

However, the simple fact is, this wasn't known when SC4 Tool was made, because by the time it was acknowledged, there was seemingly no way to update the tool to prevent new instances of the issue. In other words it took a long time before anyone noticed the problem. 

You talk as if everyone who ever made a TE Lot would just somehow know, but the fact is a lot of modders clearly did not. If there is a failing here, presumably it must lie somewhere within the sphere of making this information prominent enough that it couldn't be missed.

That simply didn't happen and as a result we have many such stations which have issues with Macs. But there is no need to turn that into a "everyone else is a poor modder" argument, I just don't see this as a modding error when the single tool used to make TE lots is behind it. I would note too, if it was clearly noted in the documentation or somewhere else when downloading, perhaps your argument would hold up. All these years later, it's really not something that's common knowledge as you suggest.

[xxdita 1,097]

I fully understand that legacy uploads will be prone to the transit bugs. I also understand that the slope bug is so obscure we don't even know what program causes it yet. And with less than 10 lots being reported with the slope bug so far, there's really just not going to be a lot of information about it repeated. 

But I know that there is an entire section of the forum dedicated to MAC users, and since at least 2008, they have been trying to bring attention to the transit bug issue. These lots have always been completely useless to them. And as you mentioned, we have an entire NAM team dedicated to nothing but transportation aspects of the game and custom content. There is almost always someone available to check over anything you're not 100% confident in, as Tibi found out when Brian tested his GLR stations. 

The information is out there and help is out there. And both of those are true for damn near every area of custom content that has been conquered so far. 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 hours ago, xxdita said:

Reading is fundamental. 

1 hour ago, xxdita said:

The information is out there and help is out there. And both of those are true for damn near every area of custom content that has been conquered so far.

This is taking a wrong turn. Stop it.

The work being done to rectify the issues is admirable and that's the part which should be discussed.

 

[nickvon 161]

On 5/18/2020 at 11:48 AM, rsc204 said:

It doesn't help that the modding tools needed to fix these problems are Windows-only applications. So of course, Mac players with the problems are for the most part reliant on others to make this right.

The more I learn...A little unsettling that I'm not able to learn how to fix these things myself.  Oh well.  Theres a huge amount of things to keep occupied with region that do work well without CTD's!  I've learned alot from this thread!

[rsc204 21,808]

On 19/05/2020 at 7:57 PM, nickvon said:

A little unsettling that I'm not able to learn how to fix these things myself

To do so requires using iLives Reader specifically, but it's a 32-bit Windows application. Provided you weren't using Catalina, you can in theory use WINE or other emulation to run it on a Mac. The other solution involves some form of Windows, for example with Boot Camp, Parallels or access to a Windows machine. But after that, it's remarkably simple to do the fix:

First find the Exemplar file which contains the Exemplar Type "Buildings" (right pane). See how both properties Transit Switch Entry Cost and Transit Switch Traffic Capacity here have the Rep. set at 1. Double click the affected property, a window appears where you can edit it to the correct value, 0. Save the file and done.

Note the Rep field only shows R... in the screenshot. See how many of these values are not 0, but usually that's not a problem. You only need worry about the two properties mentioned, everything else should be left alone. Incidentally, it's the same fix for other Mac problems, just different properties that are affected. With help identifying all such affected properties, we'll be able to easily spot and rectify those problems too.

[nickvon 161]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

To do so requires using iLives Reader specifically, but it's a 32-bit Windows application. Provided you weren't using Catalina, you can in theory use WINE or other emulation to run it on a Mac. The other solution involves some form of Windows, for example with Boot Camp, Parallels or access to a Windows machine. But after that, it's remarkably simple to do the fix:

Thanks for taking the time to show this to me!  I will definitely try to make this work on my computer.  I've spent about 12 hours trying to make Bootcamp work on this machine and wasn't able to quite make windows function properly.  But I've had alot of success recently with WIne, making those .exe files work.  Funny that you mentioned this because I JUST made a post on the modding forum which I've never looked at and I was thinking I needed to check out this ILives Reader...