[Solved] SC4 double click issue on Windows 10

[Prophet42 1,500]

The issue:  When placing props that require you to cycle through using left button mouse clicks, on Windows 10, SC4 sees each click as a double mouse click.  This in-effect makes half of the props in the cycle unavailable.  For example, Paeng's Industrial Grunge MMPs has 16 props available, but only 8 are accessible because of the double click issue.  This affects any MMP set (Paeng IND Grunge, Murmick Sets, Giraffe flora sets, etc...)  that is placed by doing multiple mouse clicks on the same spot to cycle through the props.  As far as I know it only affects SC4 on Windows 10.  I did not have this issue on my Windows 7 machine.

Resolution:  I do not know of any satisfactory resolution.  I have found that if I hold the mouse button down while placing the prop and moving the mouse slightly,  this will cycle through more of the props but it is not very controlled and it is difficult to get the exact prop you want.  I have also looked at some of the MMP sets using iLive's Reader to see if I could place a "blank" prop in-between each prop thereby allowing access to each prop but this seems difficult to do without messing up the ID orders and possibly causing conflicts.

- Has anybody found a resolution to this issue in Windows 10?  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Computer Specs:

Dell G7,  9th Gen i7, 16 GB Ram, SC4 is using Intel UHD 630 graphics,  Computer does have an NVIDIA GTX GeForce 1660 Ti graphics card

Mouse: Logitech M325 wireless mouse (same kind used on Windows 7 without issue)

Windows 10 Pro, version 1809.

SC4 Deluxe version from GOG.

 

[rivit 3,391]

Cant say I had ever noticed before it but I have confirmed this happens. I have Win10 v1903./ GoG version of SC4

SC4 gets the Mouse Down message, then even with the button depressed acts as if a Mouse Up had occurred and places the model. Some multi-choice MMPs sort of work with very fast double-clicks, and those designed to be dragged with mouse button down seem OK. But those that rely on clicks to cycle to the next model will all skip every second one.

If others can confirm from their setup we may be able to tell if this is newly introduced to Win10 v1809 or has been around for longer in Windows. If its in the OS then some other programs should also not work as intended, but I can't say I've seen the problem anywhere else. Most programs in .NET rely on the click event which is activated on mouse-down and mouse-up is swallowed by the OS.

Now I think the GOG version has been recompiled/patched to be DRM free so its useful to know if other versions of the SC4 Exe do or don't do this too.

Quite apart from this - if its not OS or Exe then the only remedy I can think of (and I'm no MMP master) is to split the multi-choice MMPs up so the moose action doesn't matter

[Prophet42 1,500]

Back in 2016 I was experimenting with converting my Windows 7 laptop to Windows 10.  I did the conversion to 10 and got the GOG version of SC4 up and running.  I did see the same double click issue back then.  Because of this issue (and a few others) I converted the laptop back to Windows 7 and continued using the CD version of SC4.

I believe I was using Windows 10 v. 1607 at the time, so I can confirm that this issue occurs at least with 1607 and 1809.  Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to test the SC4 GoG version on my Windows 7 laptop.  This laptop is having some heat sink issues and any program that stresses the CPU (such as SC4) tends to produce a thermal shutdown event.

[philforhockey51 4,203]

I also am now running on windows 10 and the gog version, I noticed this same problem. I thought it was my mouse and was ready to get a new one till I saw this post. Having my mmp's cut in half kind of kills the way I play the game.

[rsc204 21,806]

I have access to a couple Windows 10 machines. The desktop uses a pretty generic wireless Logitec mouse that has no special drivers. Latest 1903 Win 10 Pro, GoG version of SimCity 4.

On 23/11/2019 at 10:32 PM, rivit said:

Quite apart from this - if its not OS or Exe then the only remedy I can think of (and I'm no MMP master) is to split the multi-choice MMPs up so the moose action doesn't matter

Indeed, placing a blank prop between each prop, so in essence a double click works like a single click would work. Best of all, you'd only need alter a few properties and could reuse the same Exemplar over and over.

So for example, your MMP starts with 0xffff0070, this will have the property Flora: Cluster type of 0xffff0071, or the next Exemplar in sequence. Instead of the original "Step", 0xffff0071 now needs to be a blank prop, the exemplar that was originally 0xffff0071 now becomes 0xffff0072. You can keep repeating this process to "insert" blanks every other Step. The properties Exemplar ID and some other properties will also need to be updated to match the changes. The big downside is that you need to use free IDs, it's unlikely to be as neat as in my perfect scenario example. Since an 8 Step MMP from 0xffff0070 through 0xffff0077, now needs 15 IDs, through to 0xffff007E. Since most modders use IDs sequentially, there's a good change just plowing ahead could lead to conflicts. Since an MMP you didn't make is using anothers assigned MMP range, you might need to your own IDs. This is a problem because now the linking is far less logical, for example:

So now the MMP starts with 0xffff0070, links to 0xABCD0000, which links to 0xffff0071, then on to 0xABCD0001 and so forth, which sure makes the process more involved and prone to error.

Not too many new MMPs are being made these days, but it's still a lot of work that would need doing to make this reality. If I can find a moment in the week, I might make a test MMP, just to test the theory, because despite the obstacles, I can't think of a better workaround.

[11241036 5,096]

8 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I have access to a couple Windows 10 machines. The desktop uses a pretty generic wireless Logitec mouse that has no special drivers. Latest 1903 Win 10 Pro, GoG version of SimCity 4.

Indeed, placing a blank prop between each prop, so in essence a double click works like a single click would work. Best of all, you'd only need alter a few properties and could reuse the same Exemplar over and over.

So for example, your MMP starts with 0xffff0070, this will have the property Flora: Cluster type of 0xffff0071, or the next Exemplar in sequence. Instead of the original "Step", 0xffff0071 now needs to be a blank prop, the exemplar that was originally 0xffff0071 now becomes 0xffff0072. You can keep repeating this process to "insert" blanks every other Step. The properties Exemplar ID and some other properties will also need to be updated to match the changes. The big downside is that you need to use free IDs, it's unlikely to be as neat as in my perfect scenario example. Since an 8 Step MMP from 0xffff0070 through 0xffff0077, now needs 15 IDs, through to 0xffff007E. Since most modders use IDs sequentially, there's a good change just plowing ahead could lead to conflicts. Since an MMP you didn't make is using anothers assigned MMP range, you might need to your own IDs. This is a problem because now the linking is far less logical, for example:

So now the MMP starts with 0xffff0070, links to 0xABCD0000, which links to 0xffff0071, then on to 0xABCD0001 and so forth, which sure makes the process more involved and prone to error.

Not too many new MMPs are being made these days, but it's still a lot of work that would need doing to make this reality. If I can find a moment in the week, I might make a test MMP, just to test the theory, because despite the obstacles, I can't think of a better workaround.

I'm having the same issue (I've already reported it before, I'm also having Windows 10, and I bought my copy of SC4 at Amazon) and I can confirm that your suggestion works, but I highly recommend against it. The reason: There's an additional aspect of this issue that at least affects me and hasn't been discussed yet (it has been, sorry, rivit):

When placing an MMP with single clicks, the game places the second, fourth, sixth, ... exemplar file in the list.

But when dragging MMP's all over the place by holding the left mouse button, it actually places the first one. So, if this is a blank flora item, you'll clutter your city with invisible stuff that still prevents other MMP's from being placed, especially if you save them and forget to remove one. On the worst, if you remove a plugin while still having the invisible stuff placed in your city, this will give you at least some brown boxes, maybe even on an already developed MMP scene. Perhaps it's just me, but I wouldn't do that, just to be on the safe side. IMO, the only solution is making a separate entry in your MMP menu for each available flora item (like rivit suggested), even if it may horribly fill up your MMP menu.

[rsc204 21,806]

3 hours ago, 11241036 said:

you'll clutter your city with invisible stuff that still prevents other MMP's from being placed

This could be alleviated somewhat by tuning the properties of the blank exemplar to take up the very minimum space possible.

3 hours ago, 11241036 said:

On the worst, if you remove a plugin while still having the invisible stuff placed in your city, this will give you at least some brown boxes, maybe even on an already developed MMP scene.

But this isn't any different from removing any other content that you've used. Not to mention, a smart blank, does NOT link to a model of any sort. It just uses a null RKT, therefore it's impossible for a brown box to appear. You could probably just remove the RTK property altogether, which does the same thing. Anyone using Blank models which are actual models, isn't following best practise IMO.

4 hours ago, 11241036 said:

IMO, the only solution is making a separate entry in your MMP menu for each available flora item

Whilst I do see your point, that would not work for me personally, my menu is already very large, maybe 300 items. Not to mention, I've put countless hours into organising and tidying up all my MMPs, it's pretty much just how I like it.

Thankfully I don't have to use Windows 10, so this problem doesn't affect me directly. It strikes me there is no reasonable likelihood of this issue stemming from the SC4.exe. I'm sure the change is somewhere in Windows / DirectX, probably related to SC4's compatibility needs. If we could just work out what changed this behaviour there, it should be possible to do something about it at the O/S level.

[philforhockey51 4,203]

Please forgive my lack of technical knowledge.

11241036's version of the game is 'different' than the gog version correct? This points it back to the OS correct?

Since it is possible to change the speed of double click (in windows setting for mouse) would changing this speed make a difference within the game? or is it the way the game 'reads' it and it would make no difference?   Is it even possible to shut off double clicking totally? like a setting that could be turned on just prior to game start up  

Would be great if there is a way to fix this without needing to change ID on 500+ MMPs. Thought on that, instead of blanking every other one and needing to figure out which order is best for the blanks would it make sense to double up the mmps? Like 0071 is mmp a 0072 is also mmp a, 0073 is mmp b 0074 is mmp b this way whichever ID the click lands on will work?  This just made me think of an experience laying out kayak mmps on a lake recently, if I remember correctly I think it might have been skipping more than one mmp in the group, it may have jumped 3 or 4 mmps to think of it, let's see think it was red kayak then skipped yellow and blue and would go to transport van I don't think I was getting a clean one click skip which might affect those multiple IDs.

[Terring 6,473]

Yeah, I have this problem too. Windows 10 1809 (1909 can wait) with SC4 from GOG. Any way to fix it without messing with the MMPs themselves, like a patch for the game or something?

[Prophet42 1,500]

On 12/16/2019 at 9:17 AM, philforhockey51 said:

Thought on that, instead of blanking every other one and needing to figure out which order is best for the blanks would it make sense to double up the mmps? Like 0071 is mmp a 0072 is also mmp a, 0073 is mmp b 0074 is mmp b this way whichever ID the click lands on will work?

I thought about trying the same thing.  I haven't had a chance yet to experiment with this (because of RL), but would be interested to hear if anybody else has tried it.

[11241036 5,096]

@Prophet42 @philforhockey51

Technically, it really works. However, MMP's are not easy to modify, and there's a certain chance to mess up at this part, and it effectively doubles the content the game has to handle, thus increasing loading time. Of course, admittedly, just splitting up MMP's into items with only a single entry greatly increases the amount of stuff in your Mayor Mode menu.

It might be interesting for this discussion to state which plugins in particular we are talking about:

• Some plugins, such as Girafe's cars, I just would not bother with at all, because there is a very high number of entries with little graphical difference (at least for me).
• Some plugins that come with a few entries that look vastly different and are used frequently, such as Pegasus's content, may really be worth getting a few more entries in the Mayor Mode menu by splitting them because this gives you much more control about which item you are placing.
• Some plugins that come with a moderate number of items, and you are not very likely removing them in near future (such as some of Girafe's trees) might be worth doubling the entries, especially since Girafe has released a high number of trees, and splitting them would completely clutter the menu.

[Terring 6,473]

I FOUND THE SOLUTION!

I discovered that it's possible to play with MMPs on Windows 10 without skipping props. To do this however, you need to hold the right button of the mouse while placing the props. But by doing this, the game will not skip any prop. I've tested many MMP sets and all of those tests have the same result. When placing an MMP with only single clicks of the left mouse button, the game places the second, fourth, sixth, ... prop. But when pressing the right mouse button at first and then start placing an MMP with the left mouse button while keeping the right mouse button pressed, the game places the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, ... prop!

And here is the prove. If you still have doubts, give it a try. Just hold the right mouse button while adding MMPs.

[philforhockey51 4,203]

Some Heros don't wear capes, but Terring does and it's glorious, Thank you

[rsc204 21,806]

So whilst use of the RMB does technically fix the issue, for me it's not an ideal work-around, especially for fine MMP placement.

A while back, I posted in this topic, how using a DirectX wrapper, could also fix this issue, so it just works as it used to.

Essentially the wrappers can convert DInput from DX7 to DX8, which provides better compatibility under DirectX 12, hence this issue is Win10 only. DInput (Direct Input), bing the part of DirectX used for Input devices, keyboards, mice, gamepads and the like. Instructions on how to set that up are in this post, but you might need to read the entire thread to understand them.

It should be possible to only use the DInput wrapper, i.e. you don't have to also be using the graphics-based changes to take advantage of this fix.