Network Widening Mod Viaducts??

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

So I've got a city that has an insane amount of traffic going thru it , the city it is going thru is very small, and can't handle it. I am wondering if there is any way I could create a 2 tile NWM viaduct to go over a north south bound motorway. Is this even possible?? 

 

Also is a 3 tile NWM viaduct  possible?? 

[matias93 7,535]

In short: not yet.

If you check the NAM dev thread on SC4D, there is some development on viaducts, which would suggest the possibility that some upcoming NAM version (not necessarily the next one, nor the one after that) could add some support for NWM viaducts. In any case, the NWM is typically the last NAM component to recieve new tech implementations. Following your description, maybe what you are waiting for isn't NWM, but the brand new Real Expressway (REW), which is an intermediate implementation between RHW and NWM.

An useful roundabout to this problem (that I've used for a rather complex interchange on several bridges) is to use RHW viaducts (that look very similar) to resolve the viality. Sure, it means to cut pedestrian access, restrict intersections and to use something more of space, but it is also more realistic if you are connecting a motorway, has slightly more capacity and attests the fact that nobody that appreciates their life would risk it walking on the "sidewalk" of an elevated viaduct.

[MeMyself&I 379]

Is it possible to run OWR2 or 3 (or 4 or whatever) over viaducts in each direction through the busy stretch of city and then connect them to NWM roads at each end when they get out further?  Seems like this would mimic an RHW or multi-lane roadway over two bridges but it would easily connect back up to a 2 way road at either end.  It would probably also greatly reduce congestion in a crowded transit area.

[matias93 7,535]

If my experiments some weeks ago we done correctly, then is again a not yet, the viaduct just becomes a road or one way road, regardless of the NWM starter you are using.

[rsc204 21,806]

1 hour ago, MeMyself&I said:

Is it possible to run OWR2 or 3 (or 4 or whatever)

OWR 2 yes, but 3/4 and other NWM networks are no yet supported at elevation. Bear in mind though, using OWR is pretty pointless, since it mimicks an Avenue (2 lanes in each direction), so you might just as well use that.

Many of the transport networks support transitions to RHW such as:

 RD6 -> RHW-6S
 OWR-3 -> RHW-6S
 OWR-4 -> RHW-8S
 OWR-5 -> RHW-10S
 TLA-6/7 -> RHW-6C
 Ave / TLA-5 -> RHW-4 / Maxis Highway L0 / L2

That way you can always use one of these motorway networks easily to transition from NWM to Highway for the section of viaduct. When it comes to single-tile networks, for the most part it doesn't make sense to make these elevated. Why have elevated TLA-3/TLA-5 for example, or AVE-2. In each case there are no extra lanes used for through traffic. So again transitioning back to one of the default networks before elevated sections is the recommended solution.

[MeMyself&I 379]

1 minute ago, matias93 said:

If my experiments some weeks ago we done correctly, then is again a not yet, the viaduct just becomes a road or one way road, regardless of the NWM starter you are using.

 I don't use very many viaducts in my cities so I had to run one to see for myself but as soon as I started it I immediately understood what you're saying.  I run RHW4 through my city center with AVE4 FLUP intersections instead of viaducts and the traffic is smooth throughout.  You need a little more room for the FLUP ramps but not a ton because they are parallel to the highway.  With a little reconstruction a diverging diamond would be a great alternative as well for heavy volume intersections.  They move traffic very efficiently but it's hard to say for sure if it's doable without seeing the layout.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

I use Maxis Highways in my cities, I will eventually try to move to something more advanced. 

[matias93 7,535]

29 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

using OWR is pretty pointless

In fact, OWR viaducts are a better option than an AVE-4 viaduct, because of the splitting-merging possibility, that allows to take curves and overpass surface intersections more gently without having to demolish everything under it.

30 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Why have elevated TLA-3/TLA-5 for example, or AVE-2. In each case there are no extra lanes used for through traffic

And again, viaducts aren't only for elevated roadways, but also (and maybe mainly) for short overpasses. While it is possible to use tunnels (particularly using Rivit's tunnel mod to reduce their height), sometimes viaduct overpasses are preferable, and in that case NWM viaducts can be handy. If that use is worthy the amount of code and workhours to make them possible, it is something the NAM team has to evaluate, I'm not the one to know that.

[MeMyself&I 379]

7 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Many of the transport networks support transitions to RHW such as:

 RD6 -> RHW-6S
 OWR-3 -> RHW-6S
 OWR-4 -> RHW-8S
 OWR-5 -> RHW-10S
 TLA-6/7 -> RHW-6C
 Ave / TLA-5 -> RHW-4 / Maxis Highway L0 / L2

That way you can always use one of these motorway networks easily to transition from NWM to Highway for the section of viaduct.

Yes!  I remember this now from the tutorial.  I haven't played with the RHW transitions enough so I forgot but this is actually what I was picturing in my mind instead of the one way roads.  There are then many options available instead of the viaducts in all flavors of widths.

13 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

I use Maxis Highways in my cities, I will eventually try to move to something more advanced. 

I use the Maxis Highway Override which is Maxis Highways with RHW textures and, as @rsc204 mentioned above, you can transition them together seamlessly.  I run the RHW into the MHO and then back again like this:

RHW4 on the lower left and upper right and MHO interchange in the middle.  You really can't tell where the transition is.  If you have NAM installed you can just use the MHO to match the textures to the RHW.  There's nothing any more advanced than what you already have.  One of the NAM gurus can tell you if you have to install something different though.  I'm not certain what's entailed because I just installed it all at once but I do know it's already in the NAM.

 

[Tarkus 6,932]

Regarding the NWM viaducts, they've been planned as long as the NWM has been a passing thought.  This prototype is from January 10, 2007--exactly 10 years ago (it was a puzzle piece, as the "draggable revolution" didn't arrive until the NAM 21 release in June 2007):

The reason we've held off on pursuing this further in the time since is that the Draggable Viaduct system for the base Maxis surface networks--Road, One-Way Road, and Avenue--isn't yet full-featured.  We've had a loose moratorium on adding "new" networks since NAM 32, due to the massive voids in the crosslinking between many of the components we had already created.  (This is also partially what led to the AVE-8/TLA-9, RHW-12S, and RHW-10C being shelved.)

The OWR-1 is actually going to be the first to get viaducts, mainly as it's needed for the RealExpressway (REW) system that eggman121 has been developing.  The triple-tile AVE-6 is probably the highest priority of what's left, followed by the other NWM OWR networks, with the RD-4 and RD-6 and the single-tile Road-based networks lowest on the list.  Durfsurn has actually done a little preliminary work on some of these.  We'll probably bring this project up the priority list once the Draggable Road/OWR/Avenue Viaducts have received diagonal crossing capabilities.

I'll also add that the RHW, in a seeming reversal of 10 years of policy, is going to be receiving pre-built interchanges in a near future release, as the large-scale movement away from static puzzle pieces toward FLEX items has finally made this feasible.  The project is called QuickChange Xpress (QCX).  We'll be adding the initial phase of it--diamond interchanges--once FLEX Turn Lane (FTL) support has been added for the MIS Ramps.  Here's a prototype of a QCX design from July 2016:

And if anyone is still in doubt, here's video proof of a slightly earlier prototype (captured just a few minutes after getting the RUL0 code working):

-Tarkus

[MeMyself&I 379]

Before this thread I hadn't really even given NWM viaducts much of a thought but this is pretty cool.  I understand the pre-fabs are a lot of extra work so it's pretty exciting to know all this stuff is in the works. You guys over at NAM headquarters do great work!  Thanks for the preview!

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

On 11/01/2017 at 3:10 AM, MeMyself&I said:

Yes!  I remember this now from the tutorial.  I haven't played with the RHW transitions enough so I forgot but this is actually what I was picturing in my mind instead of the one way roads.  There are then many options available instead of the viaducts in all flavors of widths.

I use the Maxis Highway Override which is Maxis Highways with RHW textures and, as @rsc204 mentioned above, you can transition them together seamlessly.  I run the RHW into the MHO and then back again like this:

RHW4 on the lower left and upper right and MHO interchange in the middle.  You really can't tell where the transition is.  If you have NAM installed you can just use the MHO to match the textures to the RHW.  There's nothing any more advanced than what you already have.  One of the NAM gurus can tell you if you have to install something different though.  I'm not certain what's entailed because I just installed it all at once but I do know it's already in the NAM.

 

I fancy doing stuff such as this.

would adding in MHO , break these?? 

 

also which trees are those that you are using they are very nice. 

 

@Tarkus do you have any idea why my bridge didn't get the MH dark texture?? it somewhat irks me. 

[matias93 7,535]

52 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

would adding in MHO , break these?? 

Definitely. Those interchanges are severely undersized in width and length, by design, and oversized in height. The MHO compresses highways to the minimum reasonably conciveable size for cars to realistically go over the ramps without accidents, and the RHW is a little less compression-tolerant.

'Translating' all that interchange to RHW or MHO would require the entire peninsula to be devoted to it, but considering many of those onramps and offramps would end being redundant, you could achieve a more compact arrangement, particularly if you take advantage of the elevated height of the bridge to make an elevated highway and downward offramps.

54 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

also which trees are those that you are using they are very nice. 

I would love to say you which ones are, but strangely the images (that were visible just a couple of hours ago) aren't available now.

54 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

do you have any idea why my bridge didn't get the MH dark texture?? it somewhat irks me. 

IIRC, only one bridge recieved the asphalt textures for MHW, the most plain-looking one. In any case, to have asphalt highways with concrete bridges is not unrealistic, mainly because concrete is lighter than asphalt,  but also because of its constructive characteristics.

[MeMyself&I 379]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

also which trees are those that you are using they are very nice. 

Some of the deciduous trees I use are from @CycleDogg and they are dependencies in a BSC Mega prop pack but I can't narrow down which one.  The others, including the pines in the background are @Girafe's trees - pines, oaks, elms, chestnuts, beeches, etc.  I have many from him and I use them the most.  I looked and looked all over to find more info on the cycledogg trees but couldn't get anything specific. Sorry!  If you want to c/p that pic into this forum:

Maybe someone will recognize them and point you directly to them.

[Tarkus 6,932]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

I fancy doing stuff such as this.

would adding in MHO , break these?? 

also which trees are those that you are using they are very nice.

@Tarkus do you have any idea why my bridge didn't get the MH dark texture?? it somewhat irks me. 

The MHO isn't compatible with the default MHW ramps and interchanges, disabling them and replacing them with modular components, and a few select prefab options.  As @matias93 notes above me, the scale is also different, and I'd agree with his assessment that you would need to rework that setup in order to utilize it.

As far as the Stone Arch Bridge, it isn't covered by the Asphalt MHW Texture set included as a NAM option.  It's not covered by thorvin's older mod, either, as best I can tell.  Maxis was inconsistent with how they designed their bridges--some used an overlay plane to apply the network texture (like the Level Road Bridge), whereas others have the network texture baked in during the rendering process.  The Stone Arch Bridge is, unfortunately, one of the latter, and it would take some particularly careful Photoshopping in order to modify it to match a different texture set.

1 hour ago, MeMyself&I said:

Before this thread I hadn't really even given NWM viaducts much of a thought but this is pretty cool.  I understand the pre-fabs are a lot of extra work so it's pretty exciting to know all this stuff is in the works. You guys over at NAM headquarters do great work!  Thanks for the preview!

You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words.  And the RHW pre-fabs shown took surprisingly little time to make, due to the reliance on FLEX content.  Using FLEX content also makes them overrideable, meaning that a single setup can actually be used for multiple networks, and even makes it possible to modify the setup after the initial plop.  It also allows us to develop modular and pre-fab content simultaneously.

-Tarkus

[MeMyself&I 379]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

I fancy doing stuff such as this. 

You have a really nice city going there, from what I can see.  If you can find a way to make room for the RHW I think you'd really be pleased with the results.  Maxis Highway is easy to use but it's not very realistic or forgiving.  I used it for 14 years so I'm quite familiar with it but, at the same time, I still DO use it, just with the MHO now that it's compatible with the RHW.  Having it all just gives you a whole lot of options.  One thing you would really get from it would be smoothing the curves and angles.  Much smoother and nicer with the RHW and even the MHO has several nice curves and diagonals too.  Also, I wonder if you might not benefit from the use of a slope mod.  I don't want to inundate you with mods but it appears that you like making intricate highway interchanges and these are things that would only make them more fun and realistic.  There are a few good slope mods out there but, if you are interested in finding out about them ask one of the gurus like @matias93 or @rsc204 or @APSMS for info on one that would work well for you.  All you do is install it and let it work for you.  No hassle and they make your grades and hilly roads and streets much smoother.  Once you get the vibe of using it you'll never work without it again!

It is obvious that you really like lots of green in your cities and good trees too (I'm really big on nice trees!)  What are those that you are using?  You might want to check out some MMPs for shrubbery, trees, rocks, ponds, etc.  If you're interested there are a ton of good MMPs to choose from.  They can really spruce things up with just a plop!

[Eggman121 1,035]

Speaking of Smoother curves

The wider curves are currently unreleased for the RHW (They exist for the RRW however) and the 3 smaller curves are in the current NAM.

Smoother curves are on the way for the NWM and REW as well.

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[MeMyself&I 379]

2 minutes ago, Eggman121 said:

Speaking of Smoother curves

Love those sweet curves!   The RRW curves have made a world of difference already.  Thanks for the preview,  Eggman121, and thanks for all the great work you do too!!  Looking forward (eagerly) for the next installment of NAM!

[fredinno 54]

On 2017-01-10 at 1:45 PM, matias93 said:

attests the fact that nobody that appreciates their life would risk it walking on the "sidewalk" of an elevated viaduct

I did that frequently traveling between neighbourhoods...

 

I'm still alive. Sadly.

[MeMyself&I 379]

25 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I did that frequently traveling between neighbourhoods...

I was thinking about that too - how we used to walk the rail viaducts when we were kids . . . did a lot of stupid things.  Lucky to be alive, really, thinking back on it now

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

10 hours ago, MeMyself&I said:

I was thinking about that too - how we used to walk the rail viaducts when we were kids . . . did a lot of stupid things.  Lucky to be alive, really, thinking back on it now

growing up I never lived near any rail way or major motorway. however I did due my share of dangerous things, we lived near a marsh and I used to go crawling around in the marsh exploring, its amazing I never got eaten by the marsh monsters. 

 

On 1/11/2017 at 5:39 AM, MeMyself&I said:

You have a really nice city going there, from what I can see.  If you can find a way to make room for the RHW I think you'd really be pleased with the results.  Maxis Highway is easy to use but it's not very realistic or forgiving.  I used it for 14 years so I'm quite familiar with it but, at the same time, I still DO use it, just with the MHO now that it's compatible with the RHW.  Having it all just gives you a whole lot of options.  One thing you would really get from it would be smoothing the curves and angles.  Much smoother and nicer with the RHW and even the MHO has several nice curves and diagonals too.  Also, I wonder if you might not benefit from the use of a slope mod.  I don't want to inundate you with mods but it appears that you like making intricate highway interchanges and these are things that would only make them more fun and realistic.  There are a few good slope mods out there but, if you are interested in finding out about them ask one of the gurus like @matias93 or @rsc204 or @APSMS for info on one that would work well for you.  All you do is install it and let it work for you.  No hassle and they make your grades and hilly roads and streets much smoother.  Once you get the vibe of using it you'll never work without it again!

It is obvious that you really like lots of green in your cities and good trees too (I'm really big on nice trees!)  What are those that you are using?  You might want to check out some MMPs for shrubbery, trees, rocks, ponds, etc.  If you're interested there are a ton of good MMPs to choose from.  They can really spruce things up with just a plop!

I do actually have a slope mod its just not apparent in those photos. that bridge was built before having a slope mod installed. sections of that interchange were completely rebuilt to smooth out some of the ground underneath. 

Yea I do like the trees,  they can be a pain to put in at times especially in really large cities. 

 

I do have some shrubs and flowers, made this little area in this free space I had , decide to make it nature. 

Like to use the Peg Ponds at times. 

and here is the rest of the commercial zone of the city 

[MeMyself&I 379]

47 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

Yea I do like the trees,  they can be a pain to put in at times especially in really large cities. 

 

I do have some shrubs and flowers, made this little area in this free space I had , decide to make it nature. 

I like your green area a lot!  The wildflowers are very cool!  I use those washed up logs along my riverbanks too (or ones similar to yours)  I really like stuff like that along with rocks and shoreline plops.

Peg Ponds and canals are great and you can do so many things with them just about anywhere.  Do you have the waterfall set?  Check it out when you get a chance if you haven't seen it.  I'm still planning out one of my cities just so I can use it and make it look good.

Do you like the palm trees, out of curiosity?  I'm not a big fan of the Maxis trees and never have been, even before I knew about modding.  I have a couple of mods that eliminate them all, including the palms, and replace them with custom trees.  Way better but, I know some people like the palms.  I usually build cities with a more Northeastern feel because that's where I'm from and we aint got no palm trees 'round here!  There's some really nice custom palm trees out there too though, of course.  I'm just curious, always.

I like your style of building and it's obvious you've been playing for some time.  I'd be very interested to see what you could come up with using RHW if you ever decide to make room for it.  I'm sure it would be innovative and interesting seeing the way you like to build!  Feel free to share more pics of your work anytime!  I always enjoy seeing what people envision and ultimately create in their regions.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

On 1/14/2017 at 4:31 AM, MeMyself&I said:

I like your green area a lot!  The wildflowers are very cool!  I use those washed up logs along my riverbanks too (or ones similar to yours)  I really like stuff like that along with rocks and shoreline plops.

Peg Ponds and canals are great and you can do so many things with them just about anywhere.  Do you have the waterfall set?  Check it out when you get a chance if you haven't seen it.  I'm still planning out one of my cities just so I can use it and make it look good.

Do you like the palm trees, out of curiosity?  I'm not a big fan of the Maxis trees and never have been, even before I knew about modding.  I have a couple of mods that eliminate them all, including the palms, and replace them with custom trees.  Way better but, I know some people like the palms.  I usually build cities with a more Northeastern feel because that's where I'm from and we aint got no palm trees 'round here!  There's some really nice custom palm trees out there too though, of course.  I'm just curious, always.

I like your style of building and it's obvious you've been playing for some time.  I'd be very interested to see what you could come up with using RHW if you ever decide to make room for it.  I'm sure it would be innovative and interesting seeing the way you like to build!  Feel free to share more pics of your work anytime!  I always enjoy seeing what people envision and ultimately create in their regions.

yea I do like Palm Trees, I've not used them at all yet in my region , given that the the part of my region I have been working on is temperate, yea I don't like the colour of the maxis palm trees. they look like the leaves are dying.  there is an area I will develop in the future that is much more tropical. 

 

Okay time to push this topic, so while the original thread was about NWM viaducts, today I've been wonderinng is it possible to make viaducts of normal networks over NWM networks. 

[rsc204 21,806]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

Okay time to push this topic, so while the original thread was about NWM viaducts, today I've been wonderinng is it possible to make viaducts of normal networks over NWM networks. 

Yes, but there are some limitations. It's due to the way the coding works, but in essence all NWM networks are based off the Road or OWR networks, i.e. the tool used to drag them after laying the starter. Coding the overrides is a lot of work and for multi-tile networks is very complex, especially when you have diagonal networks involved.

So in practise, that means that whilst you can cross Ortho NWM with almost any network, El-Rail, Monorail, MHY/MHO and RHW + draggable overpasses for, Road, Ave and OWR. Generally speaking almost all OxO setups should work, some DxO crossings exist, but you might find there is very limited support for OxD or DxD crossings.

Quote

The first letter denotes the orientation of the network that's crossing NWM, the second letter is the NWM itself.
Where O=Orthogonal and D=Diagonal

The best thing to do is just to try making the crossing. If it flat out won't work, or the NWM reverts to the base network, that's usually a sign that particular setup isn't supported.