Buildings, roads & population limits - time to lift?

[Linoa06 1,374]

Unreasonable limits?

People:  Well, in the original 9 tiles, you could fit only the lower half of Manhattan and the near shore of Brooklyn.  The area is 36sq km, or 13.9 sq miles.  Manhattan density is 67K/sqmile, so that's around a million people, which is the game's limit.  Interestingly, that is denser than the densest District in Hong Kong.  Some cities in S. Asia (India, Bangladesh) are denser, but that's about it.

For 9 tiles, 1,000,000 is a TOTALLY reasonable limit.

Buildings: In addition, the building limit is 32K.  If your city is 1/3 each R, C, I/O, that's 10,000 res buildings, with 1000 additional services and other stuff.  L5 Hi-res holds 1.5 households per square, so a 4x4 holds 24 households, or a max of 240,000 households.  That's a floor of about 500K adults, but in the middle of a city-wide baby boom, there could be almost a million people, but only temporarily, and only if there's no seniors or empty-nesters. Notice that this gets us right back to the same limit: about a million people in a million tile city if you min-maxed it.

For 1 million people in a real world city, the building limit is pretty spot on.

Land area?  Each tile is 250 x 250 cells, or 62.5K cells.  If you zoned only 4x4 bulidings, the building limit of 32K would require 512K squares of zoned land.  Notice that that requires.... just over 8 full tiles!  Obviously, you'll need some roads in there, and some service buildings are larger, and there may be water areas.  At minimum, each building requires 4 cells of road as frontage, which means at least 25% of your built area has to be roads - and you've just exceeded your total area in 9 tiles.

For 9 tiles, there's enough land to almost build all the buildings at max.  But not quite.

Roads:  zoning the max requires 128K cells of road frontage.  The longest single road segments are 12 cells, but you can't use only 12-cell segments because then you lose 13% of your land area to a 4x4 square in the center of each block.  Some of those dead spaces might be occupied by the back end of deeper service buildings, like power plants and universities, but generally you'll have blocks 8 cells deep, requiring 10cell segments.  Those segments are all dead weight - you need them for connectivity, but none of your buildings need to face them.  The blocks can be very long - 36 segments long or more - because when your city gets min-max huge, you've got very little traffic anywhere.  So you don't need wide roads or freeways much, and you can use mods to raise speed limits everywhere.  But even in a huge block grid like this, you'll need about 20% more road segments for the ends of the blocks.  And so, 128K of road frontage is at about 12K road segments, plus another 3-4K for connections.  Yes, other networks like water and rail count against it, but that's still a far cry from the 32K limit.

For 9 tiles, many players will not even see the road limit, unless they are building LOTS of small segments of road, rail, and pipe.

Summary: Given the Official Supported Limit of 9 tiles, the building, road, and population limits are consistent and reflect the real world as well as allowing the vast majority of players to build 36 sq km of almost any realistic city.  DON'T Expect CO to touch those limits unless (a) it is easy, and (b) they are feeling VERY generous.

 

As for vehicles and agents, that's a totally different question.  Those two limits affect far more players, even in 9 tiles, and should be raised because of gameplay.  But those are much more related to the core of the simulation and raising them would have a MUCH larger effect on game performance.

Some notes:

1. Roads, train tracks, pipes and power lines are in the same array. So, isn't so rasonable...
2. 32 habitants per building (considering if all the 32k building are residential) isn't rasonable for 1M habitants. OK, CSL was projected to have only 9 tiles, but 30% to 40% of CSL's players aren't satisfected with 9 tiles. There's none so blind as those who want not see.
3. Even for 9 tiles, 16k vehicles are absolutely unreasonable. In a city with 100k inhabitants in 9 tiles, is like only 1/6 of city could have his own car (I'm not counting: service cars, like trash truck and ambulances, public transports, trains...). It's absurd! This must be changed even 25 will not supported.
4. They need to hear his players. Isn't about be generous. If they are success today is because we support the game, and not the opposite. I'm not telling they to work for free, but this is a problem is affecting a lot of players, and some of them don't know about this because not even player checks if his game limits was reached, but certainly they see the limits effects in his cities.
5. Any limit on simulation is undesirable. Is like you buy a Ferrari with a velocity limiter at 50km/h.

Additionally, the vehicle limit is more absurd because the arrays count even the trains and trucks what is travelling to the edge of the map. Who never saw that big train queue attempting to exit the city? And the trains what want to go in a passenger station inside the city center, instead of stop on the first passenger station inside the urban perimeter? These trains generally have 8 cars transporting 1 to 16 passengers! WHY?

My cities with 25 or 9 tiles, even when arrives at 150k habitants, the population drops to 70k. All because the trash accumulating in the buildings. Why this happen? Because the vehicle limit prevents the trash trucks to be deployed! It's sucks a lot.

To solve this problem, it's a quite simple: add a "Metropolis Mode" at game. If it turns a dlc, I don't see a real problem, but this must be done or the CSL will die fast

Agreed about vehicle limits - even in 9 tiles, that limit is far too low.  I said so.

But my point is that, given the 9 tile unmodded limit, the road, building, and pop limits are reasonable. You can say you want 25 tiles, but from a gameplay standpoint, the limits (again, excepting agents and vehicles) are reasonable within 9 tiles, and with respect to nearly all real world human cities.

25 tiles is more than 250% increase in simulation size - a massive increase in the graphics load and in the simulation computations. Some of the pathfinding calculations probably increase more than linearly with network size, so the slowdown would be even greater. 

"Any limit is undesirable".... and if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

 

That too. The limits were made with 9 tiles in mind. They work well with a 9 tile city. Everyone moaning about limits who modded their game beyond the 9 tile limit really has no right to moan because they use a mod that's not supported by the devs.

I would love them to support a 25 tile mod (or even just 15), truly I would, because I'd love to make bigger cities - but modding in any game is always at your own risk.. I am also fairly confident CO will get around to that some day. They haven't given me any reason to think otherwise.

[Klyte45 173]

I just say if the CO doesn't do it, the community will do. If community do it, the CO team will not be needed anymore, like we don't need Maxis for making the SC4 upgrades.

We're discussing a lot for something that nobody knows if they will support or not. How I said before, "Metropolis Mode" isn't a real need, but raise the vehicle limits is; If they don't take care about it, the success could be backfired in a near future.

But, how I say before too, it's just what I think.

[MassDaGod 16]

I agree with Klyte45. We need to get this portion of the game modded (and quick) so the game come be perfect appose to unsat.

[Linoa06 1,374]

I just say if the CO doesn't do it, the community will do. If community do it, the CO team will not be needed anymore, like we don't need Maxis for making the SC4 upgrades.

We're discussing a lot for something that nobody knows if they will support or not. How I said before, "Metropolis Mode" isn't a real need, but raise the vehicle limits is; If they don't take care about it, the success could be backfired in a near future.

But, how I say before too, it's just what I think.

Lol, I wasn't talking about what you specifically said

Another thing to consider (maybe) - what if the limits aren't in place to safeguard your PC, but to safeguard the simulation? The way I understand it, bigger numbers may mean the gameplay needs tweaking to work at higher populations in the first place. Maybe there's a critical point where it gets so dense that you can't put any more schools, or incinerators or anything because there's literally too many people to even give them a seat to begin with. Maybe the gameplay is what is being safeguarded.

The way I see it it's just like 40K. The rules have had to be tweaked in Warhammer to accomodate really large battles to answer those players who wanted even bigger battles with even more units...except the rules certainly don't work well with 50k point games at all because they're tweaked for small games, not to mention very few people have the time, money or space to even play out a 50k point game to begin with.

To be honest, CO could make a massive DLC based on raising limits. That DLC would come with bigger schools, hospitals, etc. to accomodate even bigger densities (and, think about it, that could be a perfect time to put a medium density level too!) and generally be a massive rework of the gameplay and simulation as a whole. Maybe they could also add extra roads and better farms to make use of the 25 tiles you could now unlock by default too. That would also come with more milestones, and therefore more unique buildings, etc. etc. etc.

But this 

We need to get this portion of the game modded (and quick) so the game come be perfect appose to unsat.

is asinine. The game is already great. If you want a game that feels "unsat" go check Cities XL lol. If you think the devs aren't quick go check pretty much any other game lol. Also, they're only a team of 13 people, and they're still quicker than the Simcity guys (RIP Maxis)

Appreciate what you have. If you don't like CSL because of the limits, well tough lol. And it's certainly not going to "die fast" because a small bunch of impatient players want ever more. That's quite ridiculous.In fact it would have more likely died by now if it catered to high-end PCs only by allowing massive cities to begin with.

Be patient, love what you already have because it's already a lot better than most other games of the genre out there. Life lesson right there.

  Edited October 3, 2015 by Linoa06  

[MassDaGod 16]

@ethansprang,

I base my fun on simulation games in having sprawling metropolises, like the ones I’ve grown up in all of my life. It’s unfortunate, Yeah but it’s my reality that I have to deal with.

Also, I don’t have the game. I'm on deployment (been on deployment since January) and the honestly the 1st time I've heard about this game was about a week ago. This is a deal breaker for me.

I’ll stick with SC4 for now. I may also try the cities XL series.

[Klyte45 173]

Personally, I don't want the CSL take the same way as SC4 took, and only be upgraded by the community. Is much better if the game developers do the required upgrades by the original code than the community doing a lot of workarounds to do what we want to do.

One way to make a big metropolis without overload the processing capacity of pcs is do what SC4 do: a region of small cities. That's almost infinity play.

[ethansprang 41]

 

@ethansprang,

I base my fun on simulation games in having sprawling metropolises, like the ones I’ve grown up in all of my life. It’s unfortunate, Yeah but it’s my reality that I have to deal with.

Also, I don’t have the game. I'm on deployment (been on deployment since January) and the honestly the 1st time I've heard about this game was about a week ago. This is a deal breaker for me.

I’ll stick with SC4 for now. I may also try the cities XL series.

 

Huh?  In SC4, a large city tile is 4km on a side. A C:S  9tile city is 6km on a side. So it's already larger.  And the C:S scale is twice as fine as SC4, with 8m cells compared to SC4's 16m cells.  So you already get a city twice as detailed and 50% larger - WITHOUT MODS,

Not sure what else you need...  Maybe a "metro-area" mod that functions like the SC4 region view?

[Roadman20 601]

 

@ethansprang,

I base my fun on simulation games in having sprawling metropolises, like the ones I’ve grown up in all of my life. It’s unfortunate, Yeah but it’s my reality that I have to deal with.

Also, I don’t have the game. I'm on deployment (been on deployment since January) and the honestly the 1st time I've heard about this game was about a week ago. This is a deal breaker for me.

I’ll stick with SC4 for now. I may also try the cities XL series.

 

Huh?  In SC4, a large city tile is 4km on a side. A C:S  9tile city is 6km on a side. So it's already larger.  And the C:S scale is twice as fine as SC4, with 8m cells compared to SC4's 16m cells.  So you already get a city twice as detailed and 50% larger - WITHOUT MODS,

Not sure what else you need...  Maybe a "metro-area" mod that functions like the SC4 region view?

 General mirco-management still favors SC4.  Although there isn't a big emphasis on "real" simulation in SC4, it was detailed enough to show a player what was going wrong in their city when dealing with city services. I've been watching this debate go on, and I can't complain too much with C:S.  

I think region play is the bar the hard core players keep pointing towards.

[Klyte45 173]

For me, ∞×16km² (SC4) is better than 1×36km² (9 tiles of CSL), even I can't really play all ∞ cities at same time (like in SC4).

The creativity must be our limit in a game like SC4 or CSL.

[ReneXL 16]

We need a petition for the metropolis mode.

At CSL launch the dev's said they "cannot guarantee that the simulation works anywhere near perfect with 25 tiles" - that's what they said. Yet they imposed limits to an even smaller tile set size but left that part untold.

This can not be tolerated. CSL maps are 500% larger than 9 tiles. Surely there's a middle ground to be found.

CO doesn't have to support 25 tiles unlocked, but they can lift those limits to allow people the creativity that this game could offer.

Still for those 9 tiles players the minimum 2-4 GB of ram + VRAM is more than enough.

The so called "fact" that minimum specs would suffer from raising the limits is an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Not so much to do with logic.

There are mostly 2 kinds of players:

1. Those who play 9 tiles by unlocking and playing 1 tile at a time

2. those who unlock 25 tiles and start building

[Klyte45 173]

While the CO don't fix the vehicle limit, I made a mod for collect garbage and dead people weekly. This helps who reached the vehicle limit and see the garbage and dead people stacking at the buildings because of the facilities of dead care and garbage can't spawn new vehicles.

Here is the link for workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=529131859
 

[Linoa06 1,374]

 

@ethansprang,

I base my fun on simulation games in having sprawling metropolises, like the ones I’ve grown up in all of my life. It’s unfortunate, Yeah but it’s my reality that I have to deal with.

Also, I don’t have the game. I'm on deployment (been on deployment since January) and the honestly the 1st time I've heard about this game was about a week ago. This is a deal breaker for me.

I’ll stick with SC4 for now. I may also try the cities XL series.

 

Huh?  In SC4, a large city tile is 4km on a side. A C:S  9tile city is 6km on a side. So it's already larger.  And the C:S scale is twice as fine as SC4, with 8m cells compared to SC4's 16m cells.  So you already get a city twice as detailed and 50% larger - WITHOUT MODS,

Not sure what else you need...  Maybe a "metro-area" mod that functions like the SC4 region view?

So long it's not like the Simcity 5 view

We need a petition for the metropolis mode.

At CSL launch the dev's said they "cannot guarantee that the simulation works anywhere near perfect with 25 tiles" - that's what they said. Yet they imposed limits to an even smaller tile set size but left that part untold.

I'm not following you. The devs said they can't guarantee the simulation works with 25 tiles - true. They imposed limits to the default tile set size - also true. I don't get your logic, what is "untold" with setting limits for their default 9 tile size? It's crystal clear to me : dev makes 9 tile city, dev makes limits based on 9 tile city. Game is launched with 9 tiles advertised. Then someome mods the game to 25 tiles. Dev says they did their game with 9 tiles in mind, not 25.

What exactly is "hidden" or "untold" in this? Am I detecting some hint that you might have gotten a bit too hyped up and got disappointed in the final product?

Not to mention that "this cannot be tolerated" - I think you're taking this a little bit too seriously here :P. Not to mention that it's their game after all. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it or any new DLC lol. 

As I said above I suspect the limits have to do with the simulation itself. It is possible that higher limits create inconsistencies with the gameplay, which was built up with 9 tiles in mind, not 25. IMO it's less of a technical problem and more of a conceptual one (just look back at my 40k example).

Quite honestly though, while I hate the limits as much as the next player, my problem in this whole issue isn't so much the limits or whether they're justified or not. Many people here behave in an entitled manner (some don't even own the game) about what the devs should and shouldn't do. While it's perfectly fine for us to express your opinion there's a point where the community falls in sheer overreaction, and becomes quite rotten in its dealings with CO.

CO are already doing their utmost to please their customers. A little humility and patience would go a longer way than petitions and demands, especially as the lack of a "metropolis mode" is hardly life changing or even budget breaking given the low price of the game. This is hardly comparable to the Simcity 5 fiasco which rendered the game unplayable at all.

Chill people.

And if you must ask for a metropolis mode, ask them nicely.

[ReneXL 16]

City tiles were/are hardcoded, the community had to push really hard for CO to make the 25 tile mod compatibility, they refused to the last minute.

[Linoa06 1,374]

City tiles were/are hardcoded, the community had to push really hard for CO to make the 25 tile mod compatibility, they refused to the last minute.

So what? I fail to see why this is bad really.

[ghosty20 150]

City tiles were/are hardcoded, the community had to push really hard for CO to make the 25 tile mod compatibility, they refused to the last minute.

So what? I fail to see why this is bad really.

My thoughts too, I fail to see an issue.

And well and all we need to do is give CO constructive feedback on what we would like to see without going all pitchforks and torches on them and we might be pleasantly surprised..

When you look at it from what I have seen so far they have pretty much given most of what the players have been asking for getting modding from Day One, free DLC and a pretty decent paid DLC..

And in the end we will have to wait and see what CO have got planned just a case of waiting and seeing or in other words we need to have a little patience which seems a very rare commodity now days..

[Linoa06 1,374]

City tiles were/are hardcoded, the community had to push really hard for CO to make the 25 tile mod compatibility, they refused to the last minute.

So what? I fail to see why this is bad really.

My thoughts too, I fail to see an issue.

And well and all we need to do is give CO constructive feedback on what we would like to see without going all pitchforks and torches on them and we might be pleasantly surprised..

When you look at it from what I have seen so far they have pretty much given most of what the players have been asking for getting modding from Day One, free DLC and a pretty decent paid DLC..

And in the end we will have to wait and see what CO have got planned just a case of waiting and seeing or in other words we need to have a little patience which seems a very rare commodity now days..

That exactly.

[QuantumChicken 89]

I am using a Limit mod for the game to help me understand the limits more. Very helpful. Besides, as much as I like this "Metropolis Mode" idea, it would not work for me as I have a dual core2 quad (Xeon E5450) system and it is brought to its' knees within 5 tiles, much less 9. May as well work with the limits and appreciate it instead of being grouchy over it. So yea, like that idea, but I am truly happy with what I have as it is.

[MassDaGod 16]

I am using a Limit mod for the game to help me understand the limits more. Very helpful. Besides, as much as I like this "Metropolis Mode" idea, it would not work for me as I have a dual core2 quad (Xeon E5450) system and it is brought to its' knees within 5 tiles, much less 9. May as well work with the limits and appreciate it instead of being grouchy over it. So yea, like that idea, but I am truly happy with what I have as it is.

I'm beginning to wonder if every one who's satisfied grew up in a small city.

I (grew up in New York City and lived in Tokyo for several years) am not. I understand, its more than enough to satisfy your needs, but for people who grew up in big cities (cities with several millions of people not including tourists and people who work there but don't live there) want to emulate what they've known all their lives will be "grouchy" about this, because they cannot build a city the way they see their own cities. You can build your city the way you see your city. I can build a city the way you see your cities. I cannot build cities the way I see my cities. That's where the disconnect comes.

So of course you are truly happy with the game and others aren't.

I see nothing wrong with just making everything unlimited. every one would be happy. Who can complain about not capping out?

 

The game looks awesome. Like I said before, I've been on deployment since January and I haven't played the game. I only heard of Cities: Skylines 2 weeks ago for the 1st time and I was dead sold on this game until I read up on the limits. I almost wanted to cry. It reminds me of RCT2 where there was a building limit. Ugh.

[ghosty20 150]

Ok here is something say CO lift the limits on everything you go yay, you go nuts building and building and building then your computer lags out and the game crashes, you get back into the game and you try to load the save but it crashes again because you are taxing your computer too much and there goes all your fun and hard work..

There is a reason CO set limits to their game we will have to wait and see if they can reliably get the game going with either higher limits or completely uncapped..

[Linoa06 1,374]

Someone got a position from CO about this limits?
I hope they do it soon, because it sucks...

The official position is that they are not going to increase limits, due to the reasons I stated above. IF they officially support a 25 zone expansion, they might increase limits slightly. But do not hold your breath expecting a dramatic increase in object limits. 

I really expect they consider it soon, or the success of CSL will be backfired...

 

Yeah not really. Of course people always ask more and more and more, but what CO is doing goes far beyond what you'd expect from most devs. Show some gratitude for what you already have people.

Show some gratitude for something you already bought? 
Tell me, why you paid the game? For showing gratitude?  

The game is not free, so NO gratitude in any way.

Yep, but it could be much, much more expensive. 

Thanking people is so underrated these days, as this thread perfectly shows. The devs do everything to give more value to their game without increasing the price, others would just be raking in the cash through microtransaction with every single update they dole out.

Giving money =/= thanking people.

  Edited October 5, 2015 by Linoa06  

[MassDaGod 16]

Ok here is something say CO lift the limits on everything you go yay, you go nuts building and building and building then your computer lags out and the game crashes, you get back into the game and you try to load the save but it crashes again because you are taxing your computer too much and there goes all your fun and hard work..

There is a reason CO set limits to their game we will have to wait and see if they can reliably get the game going with either higher limits or completely uncapped..

That would never happen to my computer.

Either way, No limit >>>> limit

 

They should have allowed us to mod the cap if they going to put a cap on it.

The limit lowers the replay value.

  Edited October 5, 2015 by MassDaGod  

[Linoa06 1,374]

I am using a Limit mod for the game to help me understand the limits more. Very helpful. Besides, as much as I like this "Metropolis Mode" idea, it would not work for me as I have a dual core2 quad (Xeon E5450) system and it is brought to its' knees within 5 tiles, much less 9. May as well work with the limits and appreciate it instead of being grouchy over it. So yea, like that idea, but I am truly happy with what I have as it is.

I'm beginning to wonder if every one who's satisfied grew up in a small city.

I (grew up in New York City and lived in Tokyo for several years) am not. I understand, its more than enough to satisfy your needs, but for people who grew up in big cities (cities with several millions of people not including tourists and people who work there but don't live there) want to emulate what they've known all their lives will be "grouchy" about this, because they cannot build a city the way they see their own cities. You can build your city the way you see your city. I can build a city the way you see your cities. I cannot build cities the way I see my cities. That's where the disconnect comes.

So of course you are truly happy with the game and others aren't.

I see nothing wrong with just making everything unlimited. every one would be happy. Who can complain about not capping out?

 

The game looks awesome. Like I said before, I've been on deployment since January and I haven't played the game. I only heard of Cities: Skylines 2 weeks ago for the 1st time and I was dead sold on this game until I read up on the limits. I almost wanted to cry. It reminds me of RCT2 where there was a building limit. Ugh.

Well, don't make sweeping generalizations yo. I'm perfectly happy with my 400k city even though I've lived half my life in a 11m city, and the remainder in cities with 1m+ and 700k inhabitants. I understand this is what YOU want, though, so why don't you try Cities XL instead? You're perfectly allowed not to like CSL after all, and I do run CXL when I feel like building a 2 million people metropolis

Also, how about play the game? Or at least look at the CJs, see what you can do with CSL, because there's a lot, from small cities to metropolises. Because so far you're whining but you haven't even touched CSL once. The limits aren't as big a problem as the thread might say, they're just -that- annoying when you do reach them.

My city so far (actually it's a lie, this is my city before massive highrises, but spoilers). At the time it had 452.000 inhabitants. It sprawls far beyond the picture, about what, 13 city tiles are full and the rest lightly criss-crossed by country roads and the like?

Sorry for double post, yo

  Edited October 5, 2015 by Linoa06  

[ethansprang 41]

I am using a Limit mod for the game to help me understand the limits more. Very helpful. Besides, as much as I like this "Metropolis Mode" idea, it would not work for me as I have a dual core2 quad (Xeon E5450) system and it is brought to its' knees within 5 tiles, much less 9. May as well work with the limits and appreciate it instead of being grouchy over it. So yea, like that idea, but I am truly happy with what I have as it is.

I'm beginning to wonder if every one who's satisfied grew up in a small city.

I (grew up in New York City and lived in Tokyo for several years) am not. I understand, its more than enough to satisfy your needs, but for people who grew up in big cities (cities with several millions of people not including tourists and people who work there but don't live there) want to emulate what they've known all their lives will be "grouchy" about this, because they cannot build a city the way they see their own cities. You can build your city the way you see your city. I can build a city the way you see your cities. I cannot build cities the way I see my cities. That's where the disconnect comes.

So of course you are truly happy with the game and others aren't.

I see nothing wrong with just making everything unlimited. every one would be happy. Who can complain about not capping out?

 

The game looks awesome. Like I said before, I've been on deployment since January and I haven't played the game. I only heard of Cities: Skylines 2 weeks ago for the 1st time and I was dead sold on this game until I read up on the limits. I almost wanted to cry. It reminds me of RCT2 where there was a building limit. Ugh.

Odds are you are VERY wrong, since a very large fraction of the computer-game-playing world lives in cities with a pop over 1 million.

And it's not about realism for you either.  You said in your (edited) comment that you have an SC4 large tile with 6.4 million people on it.  I'd point out that YOU never lived in that city either - nobody has. because that's more dense than any city ever.  That's 400,000 people per sq km, and the most crowded cities in India and Bangladesh aren't even half that dense.

You haven't even bought the game, for crying out loud!  And you're complaining that you can't build NeoTokyo, Trantor, or Coruscant?  I suspect you're going to be very disappointed for a very long time.

[Turjan 1,048]

Yeah not really. Of course people always ask more and more and more, but what CO is doing goes far beyond what you'd expect from most devs. Show some gratitude for what you already have people.

As has been shown in this thread, the devs chose the wrong numbers array. That's called planned obsolescence. Nothing to be grateful about.

This is completely independent from the fact that the game does many things right and is one of the most enjoyable city simulators I ever played. I got many hours out of this, and I don't have any complaints about the value I got for my money, despite those aspects the game doesn't do right. However, this choice of numbers was a silly thing to do. It cripples the game in a completely unnecessary but unfortunately very hard to change way. That's what the complaints in this thread are about.

That too. The limits were made with 9 tiles in mind. They work well with a 9 tile city. Everyone moaning about limits who modded their game beyond the 9 tile limit really has no right to moan because they use a mod that's not supported by the devs.

I'm sorry, but this kind of argumentation is silly at its very basics. Everyone has a right "to moan about" these object limits. The moddability of the game shows that they are unnecessary. I can also moan about the 9 tile limit. Is there a good reason why I do not have the right to "moan about " these things? Don't give me a "that's the dev's vision" in a discussion about a moddable game. The 25 tile mod came out around the release of the game. It was a sales driver. Yeah, they said something about to be cautious of "odd things happening". They didn't say at that point that they used a numbers array that basically kills the game if you hit a limit.

[Linoa06 1,374]

Well, you have a point, it kind of seems like an arbitrary limit so you buy a DLC later to unlock full limits, though I half expect a free update to increase them too. 

I I suppose it's simply too early to really judge, they may indeed have limited the simulation while they fix the game, or maybe out of concern for low-spec players or it may well be as you say planned obsolescence. 

Just doesnt really fit with CO mentality, but then again CSL is their first mainstream title, and so far they've been more honest and straight forward than most game devs. 

I still hold that people should enjoy what they have because it's miles ahead of everything short of sc4... Which people should return to if they want a 15 million metropolis anyway. CO might have played the consumerism card but I still hold that some of the community should realise and appreciate what they have. Or, in one case, actually look at what the game CAN do. 

 

I I would probably be quite disappointed if it turns out the limits were indeed chosen with planned obsolescence in mind or as a future paid DLC..they do have trouble churning out new content that's not already modded in, the size of the simulation is one thing they have full control about. 

  Edited October 5, 2015 by Linoa06  
iPad yay

[Turjan 1,048]

I still hold that people should enjoy what they have because it's miles ahead of everything short of

sc4

... Which people should return to if they want a 15 million metropolis anyway ISOISO

Well, that's for sure. I already said that I'm not complaining about these hours I put in this game, which were lots of fun for the most part. It was just like hit with a hammer to the head when I reached 15 or 16 tiles and the game stopped working. I was just building this:

That bridge will look like that forever.

I wasn't happy with that:

It was just so... weird. I guess all that land around your city makes the limitations more visible, unlike the blue chasm you looked at in SC4.

 

[Linoa06 1,374]

I agree, at least in SC4 the area was well delimited. I usually try to find maps with fields etc. so to slot my city in the map seamlessly, but with Glenvale I had to use mountains, forests etc. to limit my expansion, and I also planned ahead to make sure I wouldn't hit a limit.. I also try to build within the tile, rather than up to the edge. It looks great on all but one side that I intend to improve (I solely needed the population), but especially at night it sometimes looks jarring. I would love to put faraway villages and such. Though this may be the way I play, I like to fiddle around with the tiniest of details so the city doesn't look as odd as it could be. 

This is why I limit my Euro cities though - Glenvale can pass off as a typical isolated US city but in Europe the urban fabric is usually not cut, or you have some villages around, it wouldn't just cut off and then you have hundreds of undeveloped tiles of nothingness. 

It's something to get used to I guess. Disappointed as I might get, if they release such a DLC I will buy it in a heartbeat

[Turjan 1,048]

By the way, as I'm not really building a super metropolis anyway, I also found some constructive way to handle this. This is how the map I'm currently playing on looks like:

As you can see, there's lots of water and mountains, which translates to space you cannot easily build on. This makes reaching those limits much harder. I don't have any urge to build farther out than the 25 tiles limit, either. The borders on this map feel natural.

[Linoa06 1,374]

By the way, as I'm not really building a super metropolis anyway, I also found some constructive way to handle this. This is how the map I'm currently playing on looks like:

As you can see, there's lots of water and mountains, which translates to space you cannot easily build on. This makes reaching those limits much harder. I don't have any urge to build farther out than the 25 tiles limit, either. The borders on this map feel natural.

Yes, it's hard to sprawl on this map. I think CO should have designed their maps with the limitations in mind, instead of having vast expanses of build able terrain. Even with player made terrain, this might have alleviated or lessened the limit problem. Really nice city though

[Klyte45 173]

Well, I was talking with some people of CO and they gave me this link to a reddit topic.

The limits of game appears to be in the Unity Engine too, isn't simply arbitrary...

Anyway, I will keep trying to raise the vehicle limits by a mod...