Recreational Usages

[BlitzPackage 19]

I was teaching my 11-year old god-daughter how to play and as we were going through the policies, she asked "what is 'Recreational Use?'".  You can imagine my unease in attempting to explain it to her.  Now, I am all for open communication, that is age appropriate.  I also realizes that differs based on so many variables (culture, religious belief, etc...).  However, even when they discussed it I didn't like having that in the game.  Admittedly, they do allow you to enable it or not.  So, it does allow you the freedom to decide.  Also, certain communities across the globe do allow it so it is a legitimate topic for discussion.  Plus, I do think that it is good for games to address a variety of social issues to whatever extent and in whatever way their creator deems appropriate.  Obviously if it goes too far (i.e. Legalize Child-Trafficking or Support Terrorism - some countries turn a blind eye to both) then I won't buy it.

 

For the record, out of moral reasons, I never enable recreational use.  I wish I could set up treatment centers for those addicted to anything - drugs, alcohol, sex, etc...

 

Thoughts?

[EyeofMobius 27]

For myself I am in favour of policies like this; not because I partake but because it makes more sense to me in light of how I have seen these policies function in communities where they are implemented.

 

In regards to the policy in game I feel it is implemented a little bit carelessly. In it's current state it is almost too good from a socio-economic standpoint not to implement it. What I do like about it is that it now falls into a matter of personal ethics which are pretty cool when properly implemented. I would like to see this policy reworked a little bit in the future.

 

I think that, off hand, the adjustments I would make to the policy based on your post and my own thoughts on it I would make are:

- Descriptions to include mention of social and medical support for substance abuse that commonly help enable these policies to make sense and improvements overall.

- add a 20% increase to healthcare spending.

- selecting the policy would unlock tertiary service buildings in the city or district where the policy is implemented ( ie. a substance rehabilitation centre under the healthcare tab).

[BlitzPackage 19]

For myself I am in favour of policies like this; not because I partake but because it makes more sense to me in light of how I have seen these policies function in communities where they are implemented.

 

In regards to the policy in game I feel it is implemented a little bit carelessly. In it's current state it is almost too good from a socio-economic standpoint not to implement it. What I do like about it is that it now falls into a matter of personal ethics which are pretty cool when properly implemented. I would like to see this policy reworked a little bit in the future.

 

I think that, off hand, the adjustments I would make to the policy based on your post and my own thoughts on it I would make are:

- Descriptions to include mention of social and medical support for substance abuse that commonly help enable these policies to make sense and improvements overall.

- add a 20% increase to healthcare spending.

- selecting the policy would unlock tertiary service buildings in the city or district where the policy is implemented ( ie. a substance rehabilitation centre under the healthcare tab).

 

Good points and insights.

[Turjan 1,048]

Given that the ban on weed is more or less just a cultural peculiarity without any real background (it's less addicting than nicotine and less damaging for your health than alcoohol), I'm fine with it.  It more or less reflects reality in some western European countries, whether it's legal like in the Netherlands or illegal but hardly persecuted in countries nearby.

[BlitzPackage 19]

Given that the ban on weed is more or less just a cultural peculiarity without any real background (it's less addicting than nicotine and less damaging for your health than alcoohol), I'm fine with it.  It more or less reflects reality in some western European countries, whether it's legal like in the Netherlands or illegal but hardly persecuted in countries nearby.

 

Some alcohol (red wine for example), in moderation, is actually good for your health.  I haven't seen the scientific studies about the impact of weed on health.  It seems to me the lungs were not designed to inhale smoke of any kind.  However, I haven't seen any of the scientific studies about whether weed has any damaging affects on the body.  That would, obviously, be critical.  Social acceptance is not always a good indicator of something being good.

 

Nonetheless, I like what EyeOfMobius said about some better ways to implement it.  I actually think his ideas would add a lot more realism and depth to the game about it.  I think being able to interact with cims on these and other issues would be great - as long as it's not formulaic as if they (Colossal Order) want to push acceptance of something.  For example, citizens will always like policy (i.e. social/public-health issue) X and anytime you do policy (social/public-health issue) X everyone is always happy and you make tons of money.  They would definitely have the right to do that, but it would be boring.  I think it's more exciting to have people react different ways to different things.  Societies change over time in what they like or accept and even a brief perusal of history shows that many of the things we debate and discuss today were at diffent times accepted, then shuned, then accepted, then shuned, etc...  Games can be a wonderful way to explore these realities in a fun way. Just don't get preachy about things - either explicitly or in subtle ways.  Like in real life, people see issues differently - and that's good.

[Turjan 1,048]

I haven't seen the scientific studies about the impact of weed on health.

 

You just have to look .

It seems to me the lungs were not designed to inhale smoke of any kind.

That's why you also get it baked into cookies in a coffee shop.

Just a disclaimer: Personally, I don't consume any cannabis at all, but I lived in a city quarter where the summers often smelled from the weed all those people around me smoked.

[TPB 562]

I am a passionate supporter of cannabis, both for recreational as well as its other million uses.

 

Here are a few links for your enlightenment which I was able to find in about 2 minutes on a search engine. It would be awesome if you could inform yourself so as to perhaps avoid spreading misinformation.

Such as that because alcohol in moderation is good for you it somehow makes it ok or a better option than cannabis.

 

It doesn't.

 

Arsenic is also good for you in moderation, doesn't mean its not a deadly substance. Similarly, alcohol can kill you with a relatively easy to achieve overdose or through drunken stupidity. It also can and will make you a total jerk and first class a-hole, can turn you violent on others, or make you do stupid things.

 

Cannabis on the other hand, is impossible to OD on, has never killed anyone, and the worse that can happen to you if you smoke it a lot is that you'll have memory issues, psychological dependency, emotional instability or you'll fall asleep. And if you are already mentally unstable it might push you over the limit into schizophrenia, but it is debatable whether the link is direct or if other factors are to consider.

 

That sounds like nothing compared to liver-failure and complete family collapse.

 

It's about high time we resurrect cannabis to its rightful place as the Queen of all plants and one of our most precious herbs.

 

By the way, cannabis can also replace fossil Oil, which is the main reason why they banned it.

 

Virginia Commonwealth University

 

" Ingredients in marijuana and the cannabinoid receptor protein produced naturally in the body to regulate the central nervous system and other bodily functions play a critical role in controlling spontaneous seizures in epilepsy"

 

National Cancer Institute

 

"benefits of medicinal Cannabis for people living with cancer include antiemetic effects,appetite stimulation, pain relief, and improved sleep"

 

Live Science

 

"Cannabis as a medicine was common throughout most of the world in the 1800s. It was used as the primary pain reliever until the invention of aspirin. The United States, in effect, made prescriptions for Cannabis illegal through the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. The only opponent to the legislation was the representative of the American Medical Association."

 

Time

 

"Marijuana smokers performed better on tests of lung function compared to nonsmokers and cigarette smokers"

 

 

And a very long etc.

 

Sorry but, if you continue to question the benefits of this miraculous plant, it's more out of wilful ignorance, bias or prejudice than anything else.

 

I also think it's incredibly stupid to regulate anything by criminalizing it. And they know that from their alcohol prohibition experience. So, I think the truth is cannabis and other drugs are illegal because the Prison industry needs people to fill it's cells and they got some serious lobbying muscle power. NOT because they are bad for you. Otherwise 90% of prescription drugs should be illegal too, and so should guns, and cars, and taking walks in the evening.... lol.

 

Anyway, sorry for the intermission but I had to say this. Cheers.

[BlitzPackage 19]

@TPB

 

I was not saying that alcohol was better for you than cannibis.  You read that into my statement.  Your statement about arsenic doesn't address my point that red wine in moderation is good for you.  Arsenic is only essential in trace amounts.  Vitamin C is bad for you in too large of a dose.  Are you saying we should approach red wine, arsenic and Vitamin C the same since in varying quantities they can be good or bad.  Is your enthusiatic support of cannabis influencing how you interpret any questions about its consumption?  Realize that people will disagree with you and that's ok.

 

Kudos to you for being honest about what research has potentially linked it to.  You stated such research found, among other things, that it may lead to"memory issues, psychological dependency, emotional instability or you'll fall asleep. And if you are already mentally unstable it might push you over the limit into schizophrenia".  Those are not small things or insignificant problems.

 

I question the benefits of it because the research that I have seen has not been conclusive.  I also question the benefits of garlic pills, ginseng, and other remedies for which there is not conclusive research in support of their supposed benefits.  I question anything until I see clear and consistent evidence.  So it is most certainly not "...more out of wilful ignorance, bias or prejudice than anything else".

 

The needlessly huge prison population in the U.S. is ridiculous but that is beyond the scope of these forums.

 

While not in all cases, but criminilization is the way society discourages a behavior it deems wrong or, on the balance, more harmful than positive.  Certainly you wouldn't want murder and rape legalized.  Some times society gets it right, sometime it gets it wrong.  Some times its hard to tell.  The medical community at one time was saying that it was bad for you.

 

It's all good.  I won't get bent out of shape if you disagree.

 

That being said, I do think the game could be enhanced by even facilitating interaction with the cims on this and many other issues as long as it stays fun and doesn't get too heavy.  At least in my humble opinion.

[Drengs 18]

@BlitzPackage

I'm sorry, but the reseaches on cannabis ARE conclusive on one thing at least: IT IS less dangerous than alcohol, tabacoo, or most of the legal prescription medicines, both to yourself and to other people around you. Also, it is proved that humanity have ben using cannabis for around 10.000 years (yes, basically since we discovered agriculture), and there is not a single case of death for ingestion of marijuana!

Indeed, the biggest health problem of it is because of the smoke, which you can avoid by cooking or even vaporizing.

Besides, cannabis doesn't have only one use, as TPB argued. You can make oil, paper, clothing, food, fuel, and many other uses of this indeed miraculous plant.

I'm sorry, but if you were to really rely on cientific evidence, than you should support marijuana legalization. It shouldn't be a question of opinion. It is utter stupidity not to use it at least for those purposes.

By the way, if you want to know the real reasons why it was deemed illegal, it was because of racism (blacks and hispanics were the main users in the US) and monopoly/greed (marijuana was a competitor for the oil, plastic, nylon, paper and pharmaceutical industries). Nowadays it remains banned just because of plain ignorance.

Anyway, if you're concerned on how to talk to your children about anything, just be honest. Kids are not that stupid. If you lie, they will eventually find out, and it will be much worse.

[BlitzPackage 19]

@BlitzPackage

I'm sorry, but the reseaches on cannabis ARE conclusive on one thing at least: IT IS less dangerous than alcohol, tabacoo, or most of the legal prescription medicines, both to yourself and to other people around you. Also, it is proved that humanity have ben using cannabis for around 10.000 years (yes, basically since we discovered agriculture), and there is not a single case of death for ingestion of marijuana!

Indeed, the biggest health problem of it is because of the smoke, which you can avoid by cooking or even vaporizing.

Besides, cannabis doesn't have only one use, as TPB argued. You can make oil, paper, clothing, food, fuel, and many other uses of this indeed miraculous plant.

I'm sorry, but if you were to really rely on cientific evidence, than you should support marijuana legalization. It shouldn't be a question of opinion. It is utter stupidity not to use it at least for those purposes.

By the way, if you want to know the real reasons why it was deemed illegal, it was because of racism (blacks and hispanics were the main users in the US) and monopoly/greed (marijuana was a competitor for the oil, plastic, nylon, paper and pharmaceutical industries). Nowadays it remains banned just because of plain ignorance.

Anyway, if you're concerned on how to talk to your children about anything, just be honest. Kids are not that stupid. If you lie, they will eventually find out, and it will be much worse.

 

The research "I have seen" has not been conclusive.  I have not followed weed closely.  I am open to scientific evidence.  Not just the evidence in support, but evidence about side effects, drawbacks, etc...  I am ok having not followed it closely and wondering whether it is beneficial or not.  I will review the links provided as well as other items.  However, I am still skeptical.  It could be due to the years of hearing it was bad.  In any event, I don't think it's helpful to insinuate that people are somehow being disingenuous or stupid for not immediately dropping all inhibitions and rushing out to embrace it.  You have not done that, but that has been the tactic of some.  I say just share the evidence and let people decide.  If the evidence says it's good, then so be it.

 

You are right about being honest with kids.  They are able to handle much more than we think.  I agree.

[iviaarten 533]

Since I'm Dutch, my views on this are hardly surprising, so I'll leave them out.

 

I do like the decision CO made in including it in the game. Mayoring includes a lot of socio-economic issues. Tbh, it could have been a whole lot more grim, having to deal with poverty, slums, projects, heavy drugs/alcohol, domestic violence etc etc etc.

 

Not all these issues should have a place in the game however. With the recreational use being a relatively harmless thing (some might even argue beneficial), I'm glad they included it. Looking at a connection with tourism (especially when looking e.g. at Amsterdam), it does make a lot of sense to have it in the game.

 

In game; I have the policy enabled in all my districts, apart from the highways

[Markus J 242]

Most Americans are so uniformed and just take whatever information their government presents them as full truth. Hemp/weed was not only largely used by required to be grown by the Us government untill the end of ww2. Around the time pharmaceutical companies lobbied against it, around the same time movies like "Refer Madness" came out to paint hemp as a horrible drug that makes people go crazy, steal, murder, and rape. Then the war on drugs came to where they realized it's more profitable to charge people with ridiculous charges for having even a seed (in some state). Only recently because of information exposure, real life experience, and medical science breakthrough do people see its not only not bad but has many health benefits and far, far, far, fewer side effects than pharmaceutical companies. After all cui buno "whose benefit" to criminalize marijana even with its staggering research of its benfit? Am I saying there are no negatives at all, like anything to much of something can have negative effects of course.

Not to sound mean but if you want to educate your child on the subject you first should become educated.

[Cyclone Boom 16,851]

Note:
Let's keep this topic in the context of the game, which is the main scope of this forum.
 
To discuss a real life perspective, I'd suggest it's more appropriate to continue in the off-topic section.
 
Thanks.

[MINIggy03 227]

I'd like to see an alcohol prohibition ordinance that increases crime/budget. No booze for district 12!

And I'd explain to the child the way you explain alcohol; adults sometimes like to wind down with a beer, wine or maybe marijuana. They should be of the age where they've learned about alcohol prohibition and if not, what perfect timing to get a little history lesson from mom or dad.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

This game is based on the home of its development team:  northern Europe.  It has very progressive themes.  There's lots of clean energy and the building theme is futuristic.  Not to mention two states in the US have already legalized recreational use.  No surprise whatsoever; welcome to 2015.

 

Interesting that they avoided more controversial policies, like gun control or same-sex marriage.  Maybe a mod.  (EDIT: or like MINIggy03 said, go even further back to alcohol prohibition).  But that's not really the focus of the game anyway.  Regardless, we already see what cultural differences pop up from a Euro-centric game that's selling well in the U.S.

[BlitzPackage 19]

Indeed, there are many things that could be added. In the end it is a game so I wouldn't expect it to address everything. As long as it is fun is all I care about.