Bombardiere's London/ English Bats

[Bombardiere 591]

Hello

 

I found SimCIty4 about two years ago. First I just played vanilla, but then I found Simtroplois and SC4Devotion and never looked back.

 

I have wanted to build my own version of London Town and while there are Bats available by great builders such as Gascooker and Matt325, I wanted more. Especially more historic style filler buildings for low and early stages. So I took 3D challenge and I tested what I can do with a 3D program.

 

I am using GMAX, so these are not up to modern standards. I have never used any 3D program before, so this is new to me. Still I am learning slowly.

 

I show two creations. Stone village cottage and Town house. I have used same basic structure to create several different buildings. Residents, Shops and Offices. So far these are only tests. I haven't created nightlights, as I don't use night in the game and I haven't lotted these building properly.

 

So far a big issue has been the scale. Which size fit best to existing buildings. As Gascooker's work is bit oversize, I have scaled up my buildings too. These are slightly (about 25%) larger than real life building would be.

 

Oh and I have cheated. Textures are “borrowed” from BiltEezi railway model card kits. These work quite well on SimCity 4 scale and style. But as these are licensed, I am not sure is it okey to upload building partly using someones work. (Yes, I have seen that many building or models are converted from other games or from work made by someone else.)

 

After I have learned the basics, I hope that I can move on and produce first my own buildings.

 

 

[cmdp123789 710]

Wow!! Finally.. I'm proud of this thread right now.. We need more bats from Britain.. You jus showed up at the moment I needed batters the most!!

They look incredible.. And of course, very british. Now, my question is, how far are you willing to go? I mean, I'm looking for some central london fillers.. And I don't want to use buildings from Paris.. Even though they look alike... But not quite.

Now, I don't bat at all.. But I'm a good city builder, specially recreations of real life cities, and I'm right now doing a london recreation... So whatever you got for london, I'm interested in having it!!

Again, great work, and I'm looking forward to seeing this thread full of surprises...

Btw, it would be great to have a St. Paul's cathedral some day, so hopefully you will become that author that conquers that.

[madhatter106 3,931]

Off to a good start.  The textures will definitely need fine tuning - it's very rare that one can take a texture from a source and not alter or change it in some way to have it jive with SC4.  But they have lots of character, so you're well on your way to making them look appropriate.  Just look at other buildings in the game and other custom content that blends well with the in-game content that you have or use; even photoshopping screenshots of your stuff into snapshots of your cities to compare them is a great metric for knowing what to do with your textures to improve them. 

 

The windows look "painted on" in that you haven't modeled them; they're part of the texture.  So everything has a flat look to it on closer inspection.  This can be easily done just be going ahead and doing the required modeling - holes where there should be windows, extrusions or other basic standard objects for sills and mullions, etc.  I would say that before hit the texturing stage, you should do your modeling, or most of it; especially if you are starting out, there will be lots of stops and starts and redos and going back to the drawing boards in the modeling stage, so jumping the gun with textures won't help.

[mntoes 271]

You will have to model the windows in order to get the night-lighting to work.

[Bombardiere 591]

Thanks for input. I appreciate it.

 

@cmdp123789 “Now, my question is, how far are you willing to go? ” About 4^th or 5^th floor. My aim is at historic building. From 19^th and even 18^th century. Those building were relatively small.

 

So no St. Paul from me. Sorry. And if I ever tackle a super project, it will be Westminster Abbey or Houses of Parliament.

 

@Madhatter. “The windows look "painted on" in that you haven't modeled them; they're part of the texture. ” You are right. These come from the same texture. It is pretty obvious on red Townhouse. Perhaps less so on Stone Cottages. That is why I made a test with lower left building. To see how much difference extruded doors would make.

 

My goal is, however, low quality filler buildings.

 

@Mntoes Thanks. I didn't know that. As I never use day night cycle, I haven't yet looked into nightlight tutorials. It may force me to rethink my projects.

 

I don't care for nightlight, but I believe that many others will.

[cmdp123789 710]

As long as it is from London.. or can fit in London.. Im happy =)

[Belfastsocrates 1,753]

Yes!!!

 

I'm so pleased someone has decided to work again on British buildings. I'm really looking forward to seeing your work.

[Harry's Place 918]

great start

[Bombardiere 591]

Oh dear. I have just read first GMAX nightlight tutorial and I feel very, very, silly indeed. I thought that nightlight were created by some clever trick using alpha channel or something, but it turned out that simplest way to nightlight is to put a lamp into a hollow box.

 

I did wonder why some early models have open windows, but now I know.

 

However, I want to use window textures as I don't like how transparent windows look. Hhhhmmm I really have to think on how to continue.

[mntoes 271]

It's going to be a tricky one to do if you don't use transparent windows (particularly with Gmax) . If you go down another route how will your buildings look compared to the others in-game, will they stand out and look odd?.   Hmmm yes some thought needed.

 

Edit. Just remembered this tutorial it could be your answer.

 

 

 

[__A 792]

I'm really looking forward to your projects! They look great already, hope you'll be able to do the nightlights

[Bombardiere 591]

Mntoes. Huge thanks for this video. I also saw a tutorial in the Omnibus by this same person and he was explaining how to use opacity. Ok this is pretty much what I want.

 

However, when I tried to follow omnibus tutorial, I failed achieved expected results. That tutorial was bit confusing to follow and skipped many vital parts. But then again, I failed miserably to produce any light. Outside or inside of the building. I must be someting fundamentally wrong. (Yes I trieded to turn light on)

 

But anyway, it looks that what I want maybe possible. However I also looked at and printied four part BAT essential tutorial and perhaps I should go step by step to learn more about GMAX and batting.

[Bombardiere 591]

Allright, I stop messing with the nightlights for now. I am confident that I can do what want, but I need more time with the tutorials. I have been reading Bat Essencials tutorial by phippbo and enjoyed it. Even if it is very basic, I have learned new tricks and I will keep reading and studying it.

 

Meanwhile, I have continued to play with my card board box buildings. Here is the latest simple model. Small Town Council Office or a version for County Police Station.

 

 

I gave the roof extra bit attention and as roof edges looked too pointy, I added top slates with curve. (I don't know proper architectural name for these roof top gapping) I made different door sizes for a test and while narrow doesn’t satisfy me for some reason, I am even more unhappy with large doors. I think I stick with narrow ones.

 

As the nightlights still causes headaches to me, most likely I won't upload anything soon. But if someone is interested in testing the buildings, please send a private message and I can share non nightlighted buildings.

[mntoes 271]

The term you are looking for is "ridge tiles"

 

   Is the text part of the texture? if so sorry to say it but that would be better modeled along with Modeled window sills. These would add to the overall appearance. (the more details the better to get away from the "flat" look that you have at the moment.)

 

Keep it up you are doing well.

[SimCoug 5,976]

I like the roof details and modeling... looking good.  I'd be happy to take the buildings for a test drive in the LE if you want.

[Bombardiere 591]

Window Stills? Mind if I do

 

 

I also redid the text. Now it is modelled. And re-adjusted the colour of the doors. White was too bright. Finally I did some blue police lamps. These definetely need to be nightlighted.

 

SimCoug I will send you PM tomorrow and ask your email. I would be happy if you will do a LE test drive. I haven't yet lotted Office buildings nor Cottages. Only used PIM-X to create an empty lot. It seems that many batters are not interested that much in lotting and I guess it applies to me too.

[mntoes 271]

Better.. on the right tracks now.

[SimCoug 5,976]

Great - those little details really make a difference.  

 

I'm going to add a couple suggestions (take 'em or leave 'em)

 

-Have you considered making foundations?  If you want to take a stab, I could probably dig up some tutorials.

-Will you render these diagonally and possibly at FAR angles?  I think it would be a big bonus, especially since England is full of non linear roads.

[Bombardiere 591]

Thanks Mntoes

 

SimCoug interesting ideas.

 

I understand that very few Batters uses their own custom foundations. What are the benefits of own foundations? I guess it is that if the building is very angular and ground with high slopes, it will look better in the game.

 

It could be useful for a building like the stone cottage. I would like to hear more, but I am not overly exited.

 

I haven't thought about diagonal angle either. The Office is a long and narrow building, so it could fit well by diagonal road. The flatness of the building may make it look ugly, but as it is easy to change the angle of the building. I will do it and see what will happen.

 

However, is it possible to lot a diagonal civic building? I don't think that I have seen one. It would be a novel idea and a diagonal police station would probably please many.

 

This a British Police Station. I don't know if this building would fit with US federal style, but it could be easily placed in Ireland or colonial Australia. Is there an interest for a version for Garda Station or something similar?

[Belfastsocrates 1,753]

 

 

This a British Police Station. I don't know if this building would fit with US federal style, but it could be easily placed in Ireland or colonial Australia. Is there an interest for a version for Garda Station or something similar?

 

Those recent updates are excellent, I like how the buildings have more 'depth'

 

In regard to the station, you could have a version which just said 'Police Station', makes it generic for most people.

[Bombardiere 591]

Thanks Belfastsocrates.

 

County Constable was part of the texture. That force probably doesn't exist anymore (if it ever did), but I liked its historical sound. Police Station doesn't have same feel.

 

I have done some work toward nightlights. I picked up phillippbos tutorial and followed it step by step.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/_/simcity-4/batlot-editor-tutorials/bat-essentials-part-1-r11

 

I really like this tutorial. There were few places where he skipped some points or was not very clear, but in general it was easy to read and follow.

 

For a test building, I made a red phonebox. (K6 Kiosk for those who care these kind of things) And success, I got nightlights. Oh well, ugly Maxis nightlights, but nightlights anyway.

 

 

For a game test, I put my phonebox next to one from Gascooker. It is older, so it is not high definition.

 

This shows one of the problems I mention earlier. The scale. My phonebox is smaller than Gascooker's, but it is still about 50% bigger than real life version. Otherwise it wouldn't look good in the game. Real life size was so small that only a SC4 child could fit in.

[jmsepe 2,039]

Oh, this is the first time that I have seen this thread. Great work and progress so far.

[__A 792]

That seems like a reasonable size, congrats on the nightlights

[Bombardiere 591]

Thanks Jmsepe and _A-. However I really need to release something.

 

Real life has kept me quite busy, but I have tested with Police Station and added nightlights.

 

 

Windows are slightly better when pushed back. I tried to give variation with partially lowered windows sash. I think idea is correct but I need to fine tune the details. (and Simcoug can perhaps point out a detail or two about building foundation )

 

 

I have built a few more stone builidngs. I think that I could release these as a "Cumbria" pack. However, I have one problem. For me these are filler buildings, like movie props, so I do not plan to add windows and nightlights. Should I even upload such low quality Bats?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Well, everyone has their individual taste and preference... there may be people who find use for such fillers, though probably not the wide majority of Simtropolitans. In the end, it cannot hurt to have more choice - those who find use for your fillers will be happy, and those who don't are free to go on and download something else. As long as you describe clearly what to expect and why you made it the way you did, I don't see the slightest problem. Of course there may be the occasional troll/jerk who cannot read and vents his anger by downrating your stuff, but that's pretty much it.

[__A 792]

I love it! <3

[JP Schriefer 5,591]

Your BATs are looking great. 

But maybe you should try to use bump map in the wall textures to look more realistic

[mntoes 271]

As far as I'm aware "bump" maps don't work with Gmax.

[Bombardiere 591]

Thanks T Wreck. I haven't made my mind yet.

 

@Schriefer I barely know what a bump map is, so no probably I will not use one. GMAX has bump map option in the texture, but I don't know if it works or not. Anyway Bump effect with so small stone would most likely be lost in rendering. However, please prove me wrong in this one.

 

Sorry, I know that at this time I should announce my first upload. But alas, I am still practising. Not with huge skyscrapers, with small object. Street Furniture.

 

 

After the phone box, I begun to play with a police box. One on the middle is about 50% larger than real size. One on the right is 75% and the left one is compromise between these two. Height is 50% and width is 75%. I like the left one best and that will be the one I will use.

 

Then there is 7 different letter boxes. Again about 50% larger that real life. Plus two types of litter bins and bollards. Although I will lose the greenish bollard, as I don't the looks of it.

 

Other are comparison props. Gascooker's phone and mail boxes, Maxis police and Historic Harbour clocks.

 

On the right picture is a Village Pump I made. A functional water tower for old time cities.

 

I think I am progressing, but I have few questions.

 

1. I not a big fan of mega prop pack, so I am wondering on how to release my props. Do I do a separate prop pack, as these could be used in many lots or should I just include the props with building uploads and later perhaps refer these buildings as dependences?

2. How to make a prop family? PIM-X has that option, but I am unsure how to use it. And should I need an id number for a prop family or does PIM-X take care of this?

3. This is not related in my 3d model work as such, but I am interested in making 19^th century victorian city. I know that there are horse and wagon props, but does any had tried to replace Maxis car automata with horses and carriages? I don't care lack of animation.

[mntoes 271]

Looking good, I like them.

 

1) Personally I include all my custom made props with the up-load. I'm not a lover of dependencies so If I need a new prop for another lot I simply modify one of my old props (so it looks reasonably different) and re render. That's my way but there is no right or wrong way. I guess it all depends on the number of props you use. Personally I wouldn't like to have to download a prop pack if only one of those props was used on the lot.

 

2) My understanding is that you will need to obtain a range of IIDs from SC4 devotion ( this avoids in-game conflicts)

 

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2490.340

 

3) Sorry can't help here.