NAM: Development

[fosterk 4]

I have a good gmax model of a traffic light, i can texture it so there is a green light only, red light only, orange light only, and a red and orange light, is it of any use to you guys?

-Kev

[Sabretooth78 808]

Didn't get any work done on the trumpet today, I decided to jump into something new instead - the other bread and butter base interchange I plan on creating - a directional-Y:

 

 

As for the lane layout - I was thinking that based on the layout of this interchange, it didn't make much sense necking the ramps (and mainline near the gores) down to 2 lanes as shown in the request list, given the character of the highway - if 2 lanes worked through the biggest choke point, then the whole system would theoretically be 2 lanes wide.  So something I decided to try here was a 3-3 split with 2 auxillary lanes (5 lane approach), with the center lane being the option lane.  As you can see the interchange is not centered, it took quite a bit of adjusting to get this thing to fit onto a 16-tile long strip.  Obviously feedback is welcome, since this type of approach seems to be a fairly new idea.

 

For foundations, I'm going to probably create retaining walls right up to the edge of the underpass on this one, that seems to be the general BATable concensus of what I've seen in real life with these types.

 

I also plan on adapting this to a trumpet interchange, with the current ramps being 2 lanes instead, and the missing connections would each just be one lane.  The only other major difference would be the enlarging of the loop.

 

Is 16x16 definitely the largest an interchange can be?  I think I remember reading that but I want to confirm it.  Seems to be that could limit my ability to create a few of the interchanges I want, especially #5 on my to-do list.

 

-Chris

[Tropod 144]

**Theoretically**, interchanges bigger than 16x16 could be possible, through some clever modding (it would end up being more complicated for end-users to use though). But for now, 16x16 is thee limit that folk need to work with, & it is what I would like you guys/gals to stick with.

sargeantcm as for the interchange; it looks quite good .

I am in the process of (hopefully) getting some online storage set-up, so hopefully we'll be able to put some of this stuff online for others to download & (hopefully help) work on.

[Thalassicus 33]

1) Explain the terminology while you go...took me a bit to figure out what you ment Also, are you planning on doing all four ground/elevated combinations, or just g/g and e/e? (we could always convert them outside the interchange...)

For foundations, I'm going to probably create retaining walls right up to the edge of the underpass on this one, that seems to be the general BATable concensus of what I've seen in real life with these types.

quote>
2) Definitely, and this also reduces the cost. We want to keep the alternative interchanges as inexpensive as possible to make them a worthwhile choice ingame, like in real life. On that topic, have you looked at the interchange spreadsheet I worked out, in the main discussion thread? Are the formulas/assumptions realistic? If you can make any suggestions to improve it I would be more than happy to have them (in that thread of course)

3) I assume the 16x16 max interchange size due to a single-byte data storage limitation in the game? Anyways, remember that none of Maxis's interchanges have features like lead-in turnoff lanes and such, if they ever need to be omitted or shortened to reduce an interchange down to 16x16 I'm sure noone will mind. After all this is just a simulation

[qurlix 20]

Tropod, I can't wait to dig through the old WIPs to see what to finish!


Is it a violation of modd squad rules to modify RUL files on your own? Even if I just want to test my own interchange? I promise I won't release it.

Could you just tell me how to make a road to one-way tile, RUL-wise? Thx

Paint skills!



This stuff looks great...good thing our excellent 3D-modelers aren't as scarce as texture workers

[Tropod 144]

TYPE1=0x02000000,0x00000200,0x12345678,0,0
TYPE2=0x00000002,0x00020000,0x12345678,1,0

TYPE3=0x00000200,0x02000000,0x12345678,2,0
TYPE4=0x00020000,0x00000002,0x12345678,3,0
(this should cover it ~ make sure it's in the IntersectionSolutions file, & under [RoadOneWayRoadIntersectionSolutions] section. The IIDs here, 0x12345678, are just sample IIDs)

 

As for modifying the RULs; by all means go ahead. There's no real restrictions on modifying them for your own testing purposes (lots of us do this all the time with stuff). Some extra hands with those who know the RULs, would be great too. The Path files for these though, may be a little more difficult in dealing with, since it's got to deal with both forward & reverse directions of the join (not Left/right hand, but foreward & reverse in conjunction with the road).

[Dexter 40]

I have made a simple model for a ground highway over road overpass. If a modder thinks it's any good I can send it to you.

 

Ground Highway over Road Overpass

[redlotus 16]

A'right.  I've got the Ground/Elevated Highway stack rebuilt and divided.  You can find the GMAX file here:

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/redlotus5@sbcglobal.net  

(As always, once you get into the briefcase, go into the Public folder and download RLI_Stack_Divided.zip)

 

If anyone could help out by rendering these, I would greatly appreciate it.  Basically, each piece needs to have a custom LOD made and then renderred (see Phase 3 of the tutorial if you have any questions).  Once this is done, I'll be able to create a custom FSH file and reskin the pieces.  At the same time, someone else could help out by creating the SC4Path files and the RUL file.

 

If I can get help with these two items, we may be able to get this thing up and running within a month (or so).

 

Dexter:  If I could offer a few suggestions, I would recommend some changes to you model.  First, I would recommend against just rotating the individual pieces.  As you can tell from your preview, this causes gaps along the railing between each of the pieces.  Instead, I would attach all of the parts of each piece together, go into Vertex mode and raise or lower the corresponding side.  This should line things up much better.  Second, once you have each piece (attached together) as one object, I would shrink each of the pieces to half their length.  That way you can create a more gradual slope at the top and bottom half-pieces and a steeper slope for the middle half-pieces.  This will make the whole model a little more fluid.  Let me know if you have any questions on this.

 

Thanks,

 

-red

[the7trumpets 10]

Tropod, I've done some digging and experimenting on the avenue/avenue overpass, concerning the extra reserved tiles. This is the new RUL section I've come up with, which appears to work just fine when plopping on top of existing intersections, avenues, and open land. You still can't place two of these right next to each other, but you can curve or intersect the avenue right next to the overpass, as well as build on the old 'reserved' tiles.

Let me know if I've stuck my foot in my mouth by doing something odd.


[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00009000]
;Added by Tropod 05/23/04.
;avenuexavenue overpass
Piece = 8.0, 8.0, 0, 0, 0x54208000
PreviewEffect = preview_aven_aven_underpass

CellLayout =....ef.....
CellLayout =....cd.....
CellLayout =gaaaWXaaaiCellLayout =hbbbYZbbbj.
CellLayout =....cd.....
CellLayout =....kl.....
CellLayout =....^......

CheckType = a - avenue:0x04020002
CheckType = b - avenue:0x00020402
CheckType = c - avenue:0x02040200 optional
CheckType = d - avenue:0x02000204 optional
CheckType = e - avenue:0x02040000,0xffff00ff optional
CheckType = f - avenue:0x02000004,0xffff00ff optional
CheckType = g - avenue:0x04020000,0xffffff00 check
CheckType = h - avenue:0x00020400,0xffffff00 check
CheckType = i - avenue:0x04000002,0xff00ffff check
CheckType = j - avenue:0x00000402,0xff00ffff check
CheckType = k - avenue:0x00040200,0x00ffffff optional
CheckType = l - avenue:0x00000204,0x00ffffff optional
CheckType = W - avenue:0x04040202
CheckType = X - avenue:0x04020204
CheckType = Y - avenue:0x02040402
CheckType = Z - avenue:0x02020404

ConsLayout =....||.....
ConsLayout =....||.....
ConsLayout =----##----ConsLayout =----##----.
ConsLayout =....||.....
ConsLayout =....||.....
ConsLayout =....^......

AutoTileBase= 0x54209000
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
;;;ConvertQueryID = 0xB0009000
PlaceQueryID = 0xB0009000
Costs = 1000

[smoncrie 43]

Here is a picture showing an early test of a puzzle piece I am working on.

 

 

 

There are two instances of the puzzle piece shown. They are on the embankments on either side of the highway.   Over the highway is an existing NAM puzzle piece.  I don

[the7trumpets 10]

I saw this over in the general discussion thread which prompted me to offer the following thoughts:

Date: 10/12/2004 12:04:56 AM
Author: Eastian

I found a small bug in the pathfinding of one of the NAM interchanges:

quote>


This seems like as good of a time as any to point out something related to this to those who might be thinking about creating some custom interchanges:


By default, the pathfinding algorithm in the exe assumes that every path of the same travel type (ped, car, etc) which enters the tile on the side that the pathfinding algorithm entered it, can be accessed by the vehicle regaurdless of the coordinates in the path.


For the interchanges included in the game, there are some situations like above, where this logic is no suitible for the tile. For the particular tiles which are affected, code was added to the exe to add some sort of additional checks to ensure the pathfinding does not do that. However, since we don't have the luxury of the source code, etc, (and fooling with the exe is bad, illegal, and just downright scarry ), we need to design our interchanges in such a manner that this will not happen.


In practice, this means you must plan your interchanges such that two or more separate ramps which eventually divert to different destinations never have the same tile entry side on the same transit tile. In order to avoid potential pathing errors in the drive on left versions, since the paths are simply reversed, you would need to ensure that two separate ramps never have the same exit side.




I'm not someone who has modeled these things, but especially if you are making interchanges which do not allow cars to go in every direction, like some of seargentcm's trumpet interchanges and some other's he has proposed, you need to keep this in mind. If you have any questions concerning this, please ask me before you go through all the trouble of modeling the interchange, since potential pathfinding errors on partial-access interchanges could hurt us quite a bit.

[The Great Chozo 34]

Date:10/4/2004 11:25:22 AM
Author:redlotus

A'right.  I've got the Ground/Elevated Highway stack rebuilt and divided.  You can find the GMAX file here:

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/redlotus5@sbcglobal.net  

(As always, once you get into the briefcase, go into the Public folder and download RLI_Stack_Divided.zip)

 

quote>

Hey Red,

What changes did you have to make to the model ?

Chozo

[redlotus 16]

 

Date:10/12/2004 7:04:15 PM
Author:The Great Chozo

Hey Red,

What changes did you have to make to the model ?

Chozo

quote>

Welcome back, Chozo.

I didn't really change the actual look of the stack.  I just simplified all of the highway and on/off ramps.  Instead of being made up of boxes (and other 3D objects), they are all made up of rectangles and splines.  I didn't make any changes to the supports (except to move them a little bit here and there).  If you download the file above, you should be able to figure out exactly what I did.

For those of you looking for an update on this stack, I have gotten about half of the pieces reskinned.  Unfortunately, some of the pieces somehow got inverted, so I will have to redo those, but that shouldn't take too long.  I am hoping that I'll be able to get all of the modelling/skinning done before I go on vacation on the 22nd.

T7T:  Would you mind if I quoted you directly in the Interchange Tutorial?  I am way past due for an update, and I don't think that I could explain it any better than you did above.  Just let me know if you have any issues with this.

Thanks,

-red

[The Great Chozo 34]

Date:10/13/2004 9:13:37 AM
Author:redlotus

 

Date:10/12/2004 7:04:15 PM
Author:The Great Chozo

Hey Red,

What changes did you have to make to the model ?

Chozo

quote>

Welcome back, Chozo.

I didn't really change the actual look of the stack.  I just simplified all of the highway and on/off ramps.  Instead of being made up of boxes (and other 3D objects), they are all made up of rectangles and splines.  I didn't make any changes to the supports (except to move them a little bit here and there).  If you download the file above, you should be able to figure out exactly what I did.

For those of you looking for an update on this stack, I have gotten about half of the pieces reskinned.  Unfortunately, some of the pieces somehow got inverted, so I will have to redo those, but that shouldn't take too long.  I am hoping that I'll be able to get all of the modelling/skinning done before I go on vacation on the 22nd.

T7T:  Would you mind if I quoted you directly in the Interchange Tutorial?  I am way past due for an update, and I don't think that I could explain it any better than you did above.  Just let me know if you have any issues with this.

Thanks,

-red

quote>

Got it Red, thanks.

I didn't need to download the file to understand what you did. I remember making a few models for you a while back, and you changed them in the same way, basically making the 3D objects into 2D rectangles to make the skinning process easier and to cut down on the polygon count in order to help those unfortunate souls who may still be running a P2 ( thought I doubt there are that many of those people now). I did download it anyway, as well as the revised tutorial, though as I just Red above you are planning on updating it.

BTW I still have the Y intersection in my comp. It is sliced up , but I sliced in a different manner than usning the Boolean Box method discussed in your tute. I think I may reslice the master model using the Boolead Method to get myself reacquainted with the whole process (thought it is much like riding a bike, I haven't forgot it ). If I do this, should I go ahead and change the model like you changed the El over Gnd ?

Oh, and its good to be back, though I won't be as active as I have been, but I'm back nonetheless.

TGC

[Tropod 144]

EDIT: Well I'll be......it actually posted! Just as I hit Submit my ISP died 

Well, I intend on progressing (further) with this;

 

 

For now, I just plan to stick with EIRail/Road, & see how far I get. I'm sure I'll manage a way to fathom in another intersecting network (such as street), somehow. The above, is essentially being done in the same fashion as puzzle pieces (as it is at the moment).

[ardecila 124]

WOW . . looks great, Tro!

Any chance I could be an alpha-tester on this?

[DonD13 0]

WOW! Thats the most amazing addition to the NAM yet IMO. Elevated rail always seemed to be kinda useless without the option to put it on top of roads, other than the fact that its cheaper than subway. I look forward to seeing what more you come up with. Keep up the great work everyone.

Cheers,
Don

[Tropod 144]

NAM_Road_CobbleStone

The above file only contains textures, that *change* the Road Overpasses & Road Puzzle Pieces textures, to that of CobbleStone texturing. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't ask to seperate the two, as the Puzzle Pieces are currently dependant on the same set of files as the Overpasses are, for the Models & Textures.

[dominohobbes 27]

Would a later version of that download^ make it so all roads are cobblestone and not just the puzzlepieces?

[wicher 0]

Date: 9/22/2004 11:37:08 PM
Author: sargeantcm

quote>

While it already looks really good, I still have a little request.
Could you only use the '5 lane thing' when there is room left?
Now the intersection has got a lot longer by the widening before the split, on the right lanes. I however would like the intersection to be as small as possible, to place it close tot other intersections and crossings.

(I hope you understand what I mean. I'm very tired now, which has a bad influence of my english language skills.)

[Tunafish 48]

hey tropod, could I test the el over road mod too? Awsome job!

[ardecila 124]

It's available for d/l in the Main thread.

[redlotus 16]

Just wanted to post a quick update on the TGC Stack:

http://3.forumer.com/uploads/simtropolis/post-2-1098297529.jpg>

 

I'm about half way through (sorta) this behemoth.  Things are going a little slowly, so I don't think I'll have the skinning done before I go on vacation Friday.  As you can see, even the pieces that are done need significant adjustments.

 

Anyway, I'd appreciate any comments that you folks might have.  I am also looking for a better texture for the supports.  The one that I am using now is a bit too green.  If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

 

-red

[bloo 0]

Date: 10/20/2004 3:12:13 PM
Author: redlotus

Just wanted to post a quick update on the TGC Stack:

I'm about half way through (sorta) this behemoth. Things are going a little slowly, so I don't think I'll have the skinning done before I go on vacation Friday. As you can see, even the pieces that are done need significant adjustments.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any comments that you folks might have. I am also looking for a better texture for the supports. The one that I am using now is a bit too green. If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

-red

quote>

Genrally it looks really good. Perhaps you could tweak the model of the main deck and ramps to better integrate a little better with the original highway models. Similarly for the support columns. I think their being round is good, however the flared bottom sections could be lost.

Actually after pondering it a little more I think you could probably exaggerate the height of the ramps a little more. As at that angle it looks like there is not very much clearance height.

[Thalassicus 33]

Isn't that the one for the Mars mod? I thought he made four models for the standard game

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 10/20/2004 10:51:18 PM
Author: bloo

Genrally it looks really good. Perhaps you could tweak the model of the main deck and ramps to better integrate a little better with the original highway models. Similarly for the support columns. I think their being round is good, however the flared bottom sections could be lost.

quote>

Concerning this, Red, I'd like to offer another option to accomplish this in order to limit the work you have to do. I believe bloo is referring to the way the outside retaining wall cuts off immediately at the exit ramp. I would suggest just making a simple orthagonal highway piece which has one end like the normal orthagonal highway piece, and the other end slopes down to the low retaining wall used in the exit ramp. It would be pretty easy to write RUL overrides to just place these tiles next to the interchange instead of the normal orthagonal piece.

Just an idea though, it's not completely necissary. The skinning looks great!

About the skinning though, it sure would be handy if we could 'rotate' a whole s3d file (model, LOD, UV map, etc). That way you'd already be done pretty much, just have to rotate the existing tiles around 180 degrees. This might be a worthwhile plugin request for DM's datgen....now I'm getting off topic, sorry, I'll go away now .

[Sabretooth78 808]

Date:10/18/2004 4:58:17 PM
Author:wicher

While it already looks really good, I still have a little request.
Could you only use the '5 lane thing' when there is room left?
Now the intersection has got a lot longer by the widening before the split, on the right lanes. I however would like the intersection to be as small as possible, to place it close tot other intersections and crossings.

(I hope you understand what I mean. I'm very tired now, which has a bad influence of my english language skills.)

quote>

I understand what you're asking, and here's my explanation -

I want the interchange to be a complete 3-lane to 3-lane connection.  Obviously, it's not easy to make 6 lanes at the split out of only 3 lanes, and I don't want to make any upstream lane drop closures.  My reason for that is a thru highway in SimCity consists of 3 lanes.  Much as a US Interstate will always have at least 2 lanes.  So cutting it down to 2 lanes locally would violate that.  Keep in mind I'm a highway engineer and roadgeek, and things like that irk me!  Besides, all the widening really eats up is a 2x1 tile strip on either side before the split.

I apologize for my otherwise extreme quietness on the NAM front, lately I've been slammed with RLS, and I want to try and clear out my BAT burden before I get back at this.  If anybody wants to do the skinning and texturing, etc., I'll speed these up to get them out.

-Chris

[redlotus 16]

Thanks for the comments.  I'm not going to be available for the next week, so I'm not going to be able to get any more work done until I get back.

 

bloo and t7t:  I saw exactly what you are pointing out only after I had started into the skinning process.  It turns out that Maxis actually uses two different models for the ground vs. elevated highways.  I had rebuilt the main through-ways thinking that the wall/bunker heights were exactly the same.  Once I get working on this again, blending the end pieces better will be one of my highest priorities and really shouldn't set things back too long (maybe add an hour or two).

 

Also, bloo, I would agree with you somewhat on the flared bottoms of the supports.  It's not that I don't like the look, it's just that they may pose a problem on uneven terrain.  However, the flares where put in by the original creator many moons ago.  I don't quite have the artistic confidence to go changing something like that on a model that many people have seen and liked.

 

Thalassicus:  I had assumed that Chozo sent me correct model.  Of course, I don't have the motivation to go searching through 68 pages to find out for sure.

 

from t7t:  This might be a worthwhile plugin request for DM's datgen

Hmmmm.  I'm not familiar enough with programming to know if something like what you are suggesting would be possible.  With what I do know, it would be much easier for Maxis to rewrite the exporter.  More specifically, it can't be too hard to export textures without having to use 'cameras'.

*Edit*  Just read your explanation in the DatGen thread and it made a little more sense to me.  I agree completely that this could save a ton of work. 

 

 

Anyway, I really should get some sleep.  I've got a 6:30 am flight to catch.  See y'all when I get back.

 

-red

[Thalassicus 33]

He posted renderings of the stacks here in June, I linked to it in the Requests thread:
https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/view.asp?mode=v%20iewtopic&topicID=49685&num=30&pageNo=23#304090

would be worthwile to PM him about, he probably just sent the four Mars models first. Whenever they're done, they're done, plus I understand the skinning tools for DatGen will make the process much easier once they're coded

[CryinG.FreeM4n 19]

Request :

A22) Sim_Idiot
a new ground highway elevated highway piece. When connecting the two highways together ingame you get an unrealistic slope for a highway, it would be nice to have a nice gradual slope across several tiles.

quote>

Here the model I finished : it makes 7 tiles length instead of the 3 of the original model. All the pieces are done and converted into s3d files. I currently work on the SC4PATH editing...