Simcity 2013 Plophell

[Nique 291]

So, here we are. I'm sorry this is going to be a rant.

I played Simcity for a couple of times now and to be honest. I feel abandoned. Not by the game but by the Maxis Studio. The past years have been a waste of time.

What happened to the smart people in the 80s and 90s? Ok, lets talk about the game;

One should think, in 2013 it should be possible to program a better 'bordering' system that grows with city (land purchase or annexation). Nah, its just a square again and this time without bordering cities.

One of the things that annoys me the most is the waste of space between lots in the already ridiculous tiny piece of land you get. There is no way you can fill them up with trees or other stuff. If you want trees, ploppable parks are the way to go. The only problem with parks is; yes they need to connect to roads too. And this is a problem. Not only with parks...

Water and power goes by road now. How unrealistic is this? Very... This forces parks to be connected to the road because otherwise the lamp posts wont work right? Consequences are: waste of land between buildings. Maxis has put themselves in a corner. Why? Well the decision to go 'agent based' was terrible. In the 2000s they stated that the technology didn't allow full 3d graphics so they created a 2.5D game which looked awesome. Now, in the '10s we have enough graphical power to power full 3d cities. And what did Maxis do? Yes they 'created' a new limitation: Glassbox engine. Praised by it's high level of detail it produces; they forget one thing: It needs calculation power. A LOT of calculation power. So here we are, with a new excuse: The computers today can't handle bigger cities because it would need more processing power. Whaaaaaat? Why do you invent another limitation then? I did not feel any improvement in terms of simulation in comparison with Simcity 4. Let's make a list:

1. I can not decide how big my (zoning) lot's will be.
   
   
2. I can not plant trees
   
   
3. I can not dig a river (to create a harbor maybe??)
   
   
4. I can not fill spaces between roads
   
   
5. I can not create unique looking parks (Boomtown lesson: place loose park props anywhere in the woods, do not make park 'lots')
   
   
6. Where are the power lines?
   
   
7. What about the water and sewerage pipes? This was a great opportunity to improve this system from SC4
   
   
8. Subway? Oh wait, a 10.000 city doesn't need subway
   
   
9. Tunnels?
   
   
10. Specialization??? WHyyyy? Why always dumb things out.. a city can have more specializations...
    
    
11. Tilted what? Why put so many time in developing graphical trash like tilted shift blur. Nature gave me eyes that can focus on parts of the game without the 'help' of a tilted shift blur. What a waste of time.
    
    
12. City Ordinances? Where are they?
    
    
13. Have you seen that highway intersection? Whahahahahahaha
    

Let;s say the devs made their life very difficult and way to complicated for the future. I mean, all these 'up-gradable buildings' with slots etc. this will take lot's of time to model it the right way. Was this the best solution Maxis could came up with? Just stick with growables and also; combine 'residential' models with custom props/texture sets so you can use the same building for a police/fire station maybe? Upgrading? Why a new 'sub building' slot that eats land? In a big city it is not possible to 'eat' land. Why not make a more efficient version of the model with 2 garage doors instead of one...

In short; Making Simcity 4 full 3d and extend and improve the 'bad' things that came with it would give Maxis the jackpot with record sells.

we must game look like disneyland.

we must not listen to hardcore fans of early version

we ignore critics and bend their question into propaganda for new glassbox engine

I feel sorry for the hard working programmers in the team because while the game got kicked by people like me.. i know it is a lot of work to make. It's the decisions of the project leaders that ruins the game.

No, i won't buy this game. In stead i would like to help Buggi with his Boomtown project.

  Edited January 27, 2013 by CaptCity  
Rant or not, let's keep it proper.

[RepublicMaster 428]

Indeed, I have to agree with you.

[Architechnid 186]

I just played about 6 hours worth of Beta gameplay. Here are my impressions:

The BAD:

• Zoning is a bit akward, particularly across from where a road t's into another, or when the curve is too tight.
  
• The agent system, particularly with power/water seems to need some pathfinding help.
  
• The size is limited
  
• There seemed to be a distinct lack of anything to go on a shoreline
  
• I had issues figuring out how to up the land value for High Wealth sims.
  
• The beta didn't let you explore the multi-city aspect, nor the Great Works. This meant that any services were provided by you, and I don't see this working well with the limited space.
  
• The free hand road tool needs to smooth out/average the road better when you're not going along the pre-defined grid.
  
• Having only one connection to the outside makes the city layout unrealistic and limited. Most cities popped up at a cross-roads, or at a distinct feature like a river or harbor. They grow up around the main road/hwy, not to the side with only one connection.
  
• There needs to be more road options. One way roads, and highways (player controlled).
  
• Due to a rush to get the game delivered, and a flawed (IMO) design philosophy, the game seems a bit overly simplistic. Too far into the arcade realm, and away from the simulation realm.
  
• Need the ability to zoom out a bit further, to at least see the full city.
  

The GOOD:

• Organic road layouts were easily achieved.
  
• Most things were decently intuitive
  
• The variability of the architecture in the game seems to be much greater than in past games (not including modding). There is a better since of neighborhoods here.
  
• I genuinely wanted to play more. I can see myself enjoying the game over long periods of time.
  
• I see a lot of potential for this game to become the best SimCity, given the game is iterated on, and some of the design philosophy is altered a bit.
  
• The GlassBox engine is nice.
  
• Zooming in is very rewarding. I heard a shoot-out between a criminal and the police, as some kids were playing in the park.
  

Bottom line, should you buy the game?

For those that are purists or absolutist, no. There are too many changes from the previous iterations.

For those who are more tempered, and like a fun game, Yes. This will definitely provide plenty of deviation from the real world.

Suggestions to Maxis moving forward:

1. Design philosophy should be: How can I give more freedom and choice to the player. <---- following this philosophy would eliminate most of my criticisms of the game.
   
2. Work on the city's size.
   
3. Give us more road and transport options. Highways, Tollways, Oneways, Subways, HOV's, etc.
   
4. Create a region editor, so we can create the regions ourselves.
   
5. Study a map, and do some more research into how real cities develop, particularly West of the Mississippi, as it will be the most analogous to how to improve region layout. Providing #3 will be sufficient for me.
   
6. Make the service buildings less caricature. The firestation is pretty good, the clinic is ok, but the police station, well it needs a lot of work.
   

My $0.02.

[Catchin22 299]

I agree 100%. It's such a shame. I would trade glassbox for a real game any day, go back to simulating cars going to and from work, I dont care if it means I get a real city simulator with larger map sizes, terraforming and everything else we expect as standard that has been removed.

I feel like the people who designed this never played simcity or were part of the community. As far as the tilt shift goes, they should have used DOF not Tilt Shift. I do find it more enjoyable with the tilt shift though I don't like the bottom of the screen being out of focus, I would rather just have the background be out.

This game is just super super unpolished. What stood out to me was recently I purchased Guild Wars 2 and I was blown away by the level of detail and thought put into that game. I'm not even into MMORPGs and I've enjoyed just looking at the game for its visuals and exploring the world they created. You could tell they put a lot of hard work and PRIDE into that game while caring about the community. With SC 2013 I feel just the opposite, they took little pride, didn't think things through and didn't listen to the community. There just feels like a huge lack of skill put into this game and I don't blame the coders, it's clearly a managment issue. I feel like they just did what they wanted and didn't care what anyone else thought.

They do not deserve our money!

[nukeu123 307]

Im still quite neutral on the whole thing, i can understand the limitation of the rather "small" City tile, which some cant comprehend.subways, most likely a expansion or DLC <(god forbid). terraform, i could take or leave, i never had liked the in game terrain editor anyway. IMHO: its not bad, but certainly not at the expense of $60.00 USD.

EDIT: The complexity and unrealism of increasing density is probably my least favorite turnoff

[Surendre 0]

It's an enjoyable game. The only things that keep me from buying this game are the DRM and price tag.

[Nique 291]

Simcity 4 still suffers running on my high end year old laptop!

It still has frame rate issues, freezing issues, and crashes 10 years later!

I for one am happy never to lay another water pipe again!

As long as the new simcity is void of all the problems that still plague Simcity 4, then I'll be happy!

That's because suddenly they stopped improving the game. They abandoned the original website and left many to figure their problems out on their own. And yes, SC4 was complex but in the long run, the game is still being sold.Some simple patches would solve most of the problems you mention here but they just refused to do anything on Simcity because they started to begin being obsessed with the Sims.

I would say; bad market research. It's all about asking the right questions...

Question: What did you like the most from Simcity 4:

My Answer would be: The (god) freedom you get as a player (terraforming). The game doesn't force you in a direction! (Simcity 2013 does!)

Question: What did you spend the most time on

My answer world be: Organizing road networks

Did you like it to spend this much time to do that?

My answer would be: Hell yea!

and pick the right words from answers. Just as they do now with all the critical reviews; they ignore it.

And still; glassbox = bad choice if you can not support more than 100.000 agents as many cities exceed more than 100.000 sims and then you still have to multiply that number several times (fire, water, power.. you name it) to get the amount of agents. They just focus on the wrong things:

- Tilted shift

- Glassbox (agent based simulation)

- Multi-player (mass)

- Always online part

  Edited January 27, 2013 by CaptCity  

[MariusMR 124]

I'll wait for it to pop up in three bargain box. Sounds, looks and functions deplorably compared to the vast improvements we as a community have made to SC4 and the direction they could have gone, but refused to.

[husher 18]

I've been checking out the posts on you tube and i'm a little disapointed, SC4 is deep, complex and a pain to play but its well worth it. Now looking over SC5 i think its either not finished or there's loads missing; i like setting out the water network, creating road systems and building complex cities but SC5 seems to be rather minimalist and restricted by comparison.

So i'm sticking to what i have untill they sort out the bugs and get the servers working properly and,besides, i'm not working atm so i won't have the money to waste on a new game that dosen't seem to work properly.

[Catchin22 299]

It does have problems, there are tons of graphical glitches and game play glitches. For instance I had all my buildings become abandoned for no reason, it was as if because I built diagnal roads nobody used them. Also connecting those roads on an angle to a straight road resulted in a really bad looking glitch where those roads merged. I was not able to fix that, it looked terrible. There are terrible graphics all over in the game as well and I had lots of slow downs on a fairly decent system that can run games that look 10 TIMES better than this at 60FPS.

Even if they fixed these issues a game is only worth buying if it has DRM if it is TOP NOTCH and this game is a FAR cry from being top notch. If the game drops below $30 and they fix the issues it will be worth buying even with the DRM. If they fix the issues and polish up the game and DROP the DRM it would be worth the $60, but that wont happen.

[anandus 15]

I must say I find the title a bit weird, I don't see anything about plopping in the rant and I find SC4 a lot more a plophell than SimCity. You need to plop a lot less than in SC4, I find.

1. I can not plant trees
   

You need to click repeatedly, instead of 'painting' when planting trees.

Edit:

And if you can't find the trees, it's under parks->nature and then the third 'page'.

[LillySatou 117]

I can not plant trees

yes you can.

Where are the power lines?

better question: why do you need power lines? they are obsolete. power runs along the road.

What about the water and sewerage pipes? This was a great opportunity to improve this system from SC4

same as above - i'd argue that they did improve the system by simply automating it under roads - laying pipe was a boring and monotonous task in SC4.

Tilted what? Why put so many time in developing graphical trash like tilted shift blur. Nature gave me eyes that can focus on parts of the game without the 'help' of a tilted shift blur. What a waste of time.

tilt shift can be adjusted and turned off entirely in the gfx settings.

[Nique 291]

while i partially agree with you, you are wrong on a few points.

Where are the power lines?

better question: why do you need power lines? they are obsolete. power runs along the road.

Tilted what? Why put so many time in developing graphical trash like tilted shift blur. Nature gave me eyes that can focus on parts of the game without the 'help' of a tilted shift blur. What a waste of time.

tilt shift can be adjusted and turned off entirely in the gfx settings.

Some of the points you make are valid but power lines are NOT obsolete. Besides the fact it brings more realism it is also a decorating item...

And i do not complain about the effect of tilted shift, i complain about the fact they put development time in this feature while it is completely redundant.

[anandus 15]

It's not completely redundant, it's part of the game's aesthetic.

Personally, I actually really like tilted shift.

Also I like the filters. And they'll be great for CJ's.

[LillySatou 117]

while i partially agree with you, you are wrong on a few points.

Where are the power lines?

better question: why do you need power lines? they are obsolete. power runs along the road.

Tilted what? Why put so many time in developing graphical trash like tilted shift blur. Nature gave me eyes that can focus on parts of the game without the 'help' of a tilted shift blur. What a waste of time.

tilt shift can be adjusted and turned off entirely in the gfx settings.

Some of the points you make are valid but power lines are NOT obsolete. Besides the fact it brings more realism it is also a decorating item...

And i do not complain about the effect of tilted shift, i complain about the fact they put development time in this feature while it is completely redundant.

The fact that you needed to complain about tilt shift gave me the impression that you were unaware you could turn it off.

I wouldn't go so far as calling power lines a decoration.. they are really more of an eyesore. and while you do see power lines in some places, really, in a lot of modern cities you would be hard pressed to find a single power line. if you are looking for realism, you are looking in the wrong place. simcity is a simulation, it does not need redundancies. there is no use for power lines in simcity.

[anandus 15]

The power lines go under the road. As they do in a normal city

Have you even seen a city where they don't have the power lines underground? (except in the third world, like Africa or a favela in Brasil)

[BeanBoy 10]

Yes, you can in fact plant trees. They exceed well in covering up your cities industries, sewage works and dumps.

Furthermore, trees can make the city look really nice; at harmony with nature for no cost.

Parks > Nature > Go to the end

[BravoGreenONE 120]

I dont understand the argument as to whether the game needs to be more simple. If it was well planned it could be both simple and complex. Its called....wait for it........difficulty levels, automation and manual options, modddability, options to turn simulation parts on or off. the game can be programmed to run complex simulations or ignore various rules.

It baffles me. What if you were in a restaurant and you were told that you could not order a steak because the guy at the next table has stated he does not like steak. What if the waiter told you that everyone at the table had to order the same items as well as the same portion size . Im sure you'd be left scratching your head. So why is that mentality so readily accepted here?

[Ma8thew 77]

I dont understand the argument as to whether the game needs to be more simple. If it was well planned it could be both simple and complex. Its called....wait for it........difficulty levels, automation and manual options, modddability, options to turn simulation parts on or off. the game can be programmed to run complex simulations or ignore various rules.

It baffles me. What if you were in a restaurant and you were told that you could not order a steak because the guy at the next table has stated he does not like steak. What if the waiter told you that everyone at the table had to order the same items as well as the same portion size . Im sure you'd be left scratching your head. So why is that mentality so readily accepted here?

I don't see how you can make the argument that SimCity is not both simple and complex given it is both

1. The game is quick to pick up for beginners (on the basis of the pre-release play throughs various play throughs various outlets have written up)
   
2. The simulator itself is much more complicated than Simcity 4's
   

If Maxis had intended to make a simple game they wouldn't have invested hundreds of person-hours in an agent based simulator. You could far more basic heuristics if you wanted to make a cheap and simple game.

[CaptCity 4,752]

A reminder about staying on topic and not directing comments "at" others... This a topic that discusses the beta experience, not one to re-hash all the old arguments about what "should" be. There's plenty of other topics dedicated to those.

Off topic posts have been edited or removed...

[CoolColJ 42]

The power lines go under the road. As they do in a normal city

Have you even seen a city where they don't have the power lines underground? (except in the third world, like Africa or a favela in Brasil)

Not here in Australia

[macvirt 361]

Isn't that what you get when you let convicts build their own prisons? Kidding

[Urban Cartographer 601]

The power lines go under the road. As they do in a normal city

Have you even seen a city where they don't have the power lines underground? (except in the third world, like Africa or a favela in Brasil)

Not here in Australia

...or Toronto:

[LillySatou 117]

regardless, above ground power lining and power poles in modern cities are a thing of the past. real modern cities have underground wiring. this is simcity 2013, not simcity nostalgia edition. i see powerlines sometimes in places where stuff hasn't been built in 20, 30, 40 years.. but nowadays you really don't see it.

i suppose an alternate tileset in-game where random wirings and stoplights hanging around would appear would be interesting, but it's just not how things are done anymore.

[Cob92 360]

regardless, above ground power lining and power poles in modern cities are a thing of the past. real modern cities have underground wiring. this is simcity 2013, not simcity nostalgia edition. i see powerlines sometimes in places where stuff hasn't been built in 20, 30, 40 years.. but nowadays you really don't see it.

i suppose an alternate tileset in-game where random wirings and stoplights hanging around would appear would be interesting, but it's just not how things are done anymore.

This is true. You don't see overhead wiring lining the streets in new developments. My neighborhood was built decades ago and the only overhead lines we have are on the main boulevards; everything else is buried. What would be cool is if they introduced some kind of telecommunications layer into the city, where expanding telecom access helps boost wealth. It does make a difference if one city has access to high-speed fiber optics and the town next door has only old phone lines that have not been upgraded since the mid 20th century.

[jcinsj 5]

so far these posts make the new version sound so disappointing. maxis, please, i will not purchase another sim societies or cities xl 2011/2012 type simulator again. they were just a stupid waste of my time. i was hoping that a new sc5(reboot, whatever) version would expand on the great SimCity concept. smaller city maps? ridiculous. they were too small in sc4.

i'm going to wait a few months to purchase this time. until i know its something i'll enjoy. if sc5 is a failure, i'm afraid it will be the nail in the coffin of the franchise. curse you ea. bring back will wright.

[Hoipus 292]

regardless, above ground power lining and power poles in modern cities are a thing of the past. real modern cities have underground wiring. this is simcity 2013, not simcity nostalgia edition. i see powerlines sometimes in places where stuff hasn't been built in 20, 30, 40 years.. but nowadays you really don't see it.

i suppose an alternate tileset in-game where random wirings and stoplights hanging around would appear would be interesting, but it's just not how things are done anymore.

This is true. You don't see overhead wiring lining the streets in new developments. My neighborhood was built decades ago and the only overhead lines we have are on the main boulevards; everything else is buried. What would be cool is if they introduced some kind of telecommunications layer into the city, where expanding telecom access helps boost wealth. It does make a difference if one city has access to high-speed fiber optics and the town next door has only old phone lines that have not been upgraded since the mid 20th century.

They could tie it into the education/tech level thing they have going on. Early cities could have requirements for power lines. As sims become more educated, an option could appear to toggle whether or not to put wiring under roads.

[LillySatou 117]

regardless, above ground power lining and power poles in modern cities are a thing of the past. real modern cities have underground wiring. this is simcity 2013, not simcity nostalgia edition. i see powerlines sometimes in places where stuff hasn't been built in 20, 30, 40 years.. but nowadays you really don't see it.

i suppose an alternate tileset in-game where random wirings and stoplights hanging around would appear would be interesting, but it's just not how things are done anymore.

This is true. You don't see overhead wiring lining the streets in new developments. My neighborhood was built decades ago and the only overhead lines we have are on the main boulevards; everything else is buried. What would be cool is if they introduced some kind of telecommunications layer into the city, where expanding telecom access helps boost wealth. It does make a difference if one city has access to high-speed fiber optics and the town next door has only old phone lines that have not been upgraded since the mid 20th century.

They could tie it into the education/tech level thing they have going on. Early cities could have requirements for power lines. As sims become more educated, an option could appear to toggle whether or not to put wiring under roads.

that doesn't really add anything to the game, though. education and wealth of a residential vicinity is clearly visible by the architecture of the lot itself.

[Nique 291]

At least power lines between cities if you have a power contract.. Or is it normal in "modern" times to put high voltages under a highway..

There are places in the world where digging for power lines is too expensive as of the rocky ground.

For me it adds something to the game. Clearly not for you...

[LillySatou 117]

at the end of the day simcity is a video game, there are many things about it that people will deem unrealistic, but clearly by the graphic style that is not what they're aiming for. they can't possibly please everyone either, and they certainly don't care about that, despite Ocean saying something like "this is a game for everyone" which i think is a dangerous thing to say.

i do agree that outside of the cities it would make sense, mostly because outside of the tiny boxes we build our cities is nothing but a highway surrounded by completely barren landscape. there needs to be more 'sprawl' and natural borders. but that's another topic.