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Shazadkashmir

Differences from SimCity 4 and the new one...Please explain

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Hi there

Not much of a poster here but I thought I would chip in with my opinions and question some of the more advanced users of the forum

Im not an expert on this whole new broad spectrum of what SimCity 5 will be like or how it should be as I dont believe it has been released yet. However to help me and other Sim City 4 lovers of the game understand it better can someone more knowledgable please provide the main list of differences between the two or that are EXPECTED. Before we proceed I would jut like to say I dont believe any city sim game can be better thatn SC4, that was once in a million, a unique.

Regards

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I must agree with you, nothing is better than SC4 and it will be still like that even after SC5 is released on March, 2013, I thought.

Okay, back to your question, here are some differences :

SC5 :

-Must online (No internet, don't hope that you can play it even for a second)

-Small map (2x2 only)

-Building density based on the road nearby (small road citywide, don't hope that you can get a skyscraper)

-Flexible road (Finally, we can make guitar-shaped roads)

-No grid, you can make your zone cells with irregular shape.

-Cartoonish and unrealistic graphic

- 3D game

-No terraforming tools (you can't make any custom maps now)

-The position of intercity roads and rail network have been set by Maxis/EA (we can't do everything now, we must accept the map that could become unprofitable for us)

-Our control toward the game is limited by EA.

SC4 :

-Offline game ( You will not having any problem when you can't connect to internet)

-Three choices of map :

1. small map (1x1)

2. medium map (2x2)

3. big map (4x4)

-Building density based on the type of the zone and not affected by road (There still chances of having skyscrapers though there only small and narrow street around your city)

- Road based on grid, you can't easily make a guitar-shaped road, but thanks to NAM, we can do it now though the process is not very easy.

- There are grids, this means you only able to make square and rectangular zone cells.

- Realistic and not cartoonish graphic.

-2.5D

-Terraforming tools exist, we can make our own custom maps

-We decide where to locate the rail, highway, and roads.

-we have nearly absolute control of the game, the only thing we can't control is buildings that will grow around our zones.

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I need not describe SimCity 4 but the new SimCity 2013 has the following:

1. Rich, detailed GlassBox simulation engine.

2. Resource management, including renewable and depletable resources (water is both).

3. Full 3D but slightly stereotyped/stylized graphics. Bright and cartoony without filters.

4. Online only with optional multiplayer and global market. Global market access requires special buildings but it is essential for long term profits. Leaderboards apply to all.

5. Curved roads and rail, including both heavy rail and light rail.

6. Density is limited by roads and there are two widths of roads. Both widths support medium density and high density but the lowest two tiers of the smaller width supports only low density.

--Ocram

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Well, there are many differences between the two. The main deal breaker for me is that the upcoming SimCity game will have forced online (unless an Apple App Store version of it comes out), I value my privacy and I want to play completely offline, creating the city of my dreams (with strong simulation aspects). As many other members pointed out, the upcoming SimCity game will not have large-scale terraforming, but it will have forced connections between cities, which are limited to 2km by 2km in area. There are curvy roads, but no subways at launch. It would also have 3D camera angles, not just isometric pseudo-3D.

Regarding the graphics, the reason why the upcoming SimCity has both "cartoony" and "gritty" settings is mainly due to the graphics settings in the options menu (as well as modding and computer specs).

I will wait a year before buying the upcoming SimCity (if it turns out well).

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It's pretty easy to tell who's the hardcore SC4 fan and who's interested in something new with threads like these.

SC4 had limitations just like the new SC will.

Well, there are many differences between the two. The main deal breaker for me is that the upcoming SimCity game will have forced online (unless an Apple App Store version of it comes out), I value my privacy and I want to play completely offline

I am not sure what you mean by privacy. If you mean, play the game in private to where you don't have to deal with other players, you are not forced to play multiplayer. If you mean privacy from the internet, is your computer connected to the internet when it's on? If so, playing an online game doesn't really make you any more or less "private" than if your computer is sitting there idle.

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Well, there are many differences between the two. The main deal breaker for me is that the upcoming SimCity game will have forced online (unless an Apple App Store version of it comes out), I value my privacy and I want to play completely offline

I am not sure what you mean by privacy. If you mean, play the game in private to where you don't have to deal with other players, you are not forced to play multiplayer. If you mean privacy from the internet, is your computer connected to the internet when it's on? If so, playing an online game doesn't really make you any more or less "private" than if your computer is sitting there idle.

I mean 100% privacy. Ever heard of data mining in distribution software (especially Origin)? What if there were a power outage? What if I want to play SimCity on the road? What if I want to play SimCity while on the subway? While waiting for an appointment?

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Well, there are many differences between the two. The main deal breaker for me is that the upcoming SimCity game will have forced online (unless an Apple App Store version of it comes out), I value my privacy and I want to play completely offline

I am not sure what you mean by privacy. If you mean, play the game in private to where you don't have to deal with other players, you are not forced to play multiplayer. If you mean privacy from the internet, is your computer connected to the internet when it's on? If so, playing an online game doesn't really make you any more or less "private" than if your computer is sitting there idle.

I mean 100% privacy. Ever heard of data mining in distribution software (especially Origin)? What if there were a power outage? What if I want to play SimCity on the road? What if I want to play SimCity while on the subway? While waiting for an appointment?

while I don't have a subway system around here, or travel in a way that I could play SC offline. I am avoiding the new SC for a couple of reasons..

1. Out of principle, I am not a new fan of all these games going "online" for multiple reasons, the biggest reason is: I didn't have internet for about a year... not because I didn't want it, but because it was just not available in my area at the time. Now I live in a place where I can get it... but that doesn't mean I always will.. And during that year, SC4 was the game I played... because it did not require you to be online.

2. Data mining: EA Origins (which is EA's online server hosting service) is known for there data-mining, once it gets onto your computer it goes through the harddrive and sends information back to EA and they sell that information. I am not interested in installing something like that on my own computer. I pay a fancy penny every year for virus protection which is supposed to stop programs like that.. why would I go and install it?

3. The lack of large cities.. watch a few of the videos about SC2013 the cities are pretty small and it looks like Maxis has taken a large step backwards as far as details and control over the city.

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2. Data mining: EA Origins (which is EA's online server hosting service) is known for there data-mining, once it gets onto your computer it goes through the harddrive and sends information back to EA and they sell that information. I am not interested in installing something like that on my own computer. I pay a fancy penny every year for virus protection which is supposed to stop programs like that.. why would I go and install it?

No one would like that, I guess. I won't.

I need not describe SimCity 4 but the new SimCity 2013 has the following:

1. Rich, detailed GlassBox simulation engine.

That's good, but I'll wait till they develop it better.

2. Resource management, including renewable and depletable resources (water is both).
Just don't find that interesting in regards to Cim City.

5. Curved roads and rail, including both heavy rail and light rail.
I only wish they made the curves less 'segmented' and more smooth.

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SC5 :

-Cartoonish and unrealistic graphic

SC4 :

- Realistic and not cartoonish graphic.

Why did you use those kinds of words? As if game graphics/aesthetics are only good when they are realistic. We've went through this once, already.

While we're on the topic, try comparing vanilla SC4 with the SC4 you find on the city journals on this site.

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Come on.

Artstyle does not make or break a game. It is one of the most minor things a person can complain about. If you want realistic graphics, get better computer specs or mod the game. Some people do not mind "cartoonish" graphics, such as myself. "Cartoonish" graphics also have another advantage: weak computer specs can handle them. There would be an option in the menu to toggle the "realism factor."

By the way, the original SimCity (the 1989 version) looks cartoonish (yet is considered very realistic during the early 1990s).

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Stylized graphics also age much better. Part of the reason SC4 has aged well graphically is because its art is stylized as well.

That too. This is why games such as Dark Cloud 2 (Dark Chronicle in Europe) and Wind Waker still look fresh graphically, even one decade after their release (yes, those two games were both released in 2003 in North America, the same year SC4 was released).

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Come on.

Artstyle does not make or break a game. It is one of the most minor things a person can complain about. If you want realistic graphics, get better computer specs or mod the game. Some people do not mind "cartoonish" graphics, such as myself. "Cartoonish" graphics also have another advantage: weak computer specs can handle them. There would be an option in the menu to toggle the "realism factor."

By the way, the original SimCity (the 1989 version) looks cartoonish (yet is considered very realistic during the early 1990s).

IMO, art style does matter and it can make or break a game for me personally. That's why I wish SC2013 were as less "dollhouse" in style as possible. But of course other factors besides art style matter too. As far as I remember, back in the early 1990s I loved the original Cim City for the gaming experience, not the art style - which I don't remember anybody called "very realistic". Things have changed since 1990s, the limited gameplay of the first Sim City has been transformed into the much less limited SC4+. That's why the again more limited SC2013 doesn't seem that attractive, and that's why I whish I could at least like it for art style...

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Come on.

Artstyle does not make or break a game. It is one of the most minor things a person can complain about.

Artstyle a minor thing in computer games after all? Phew, that's good news. :)

Guess we can happily expect horror adventures in Minecraft graphics and a new Monkey Island adventure in ego perspective and grainy black & white optics, then. Not to mention a photo-realistic Mario with 100% real-life human proportions and movements, and the successor of Skyrim in fancy cell-shaded Manga optics with lightsabres. Because artstyle is just not that important. Riiight.

Cartoonish" graphics also have another advantage: weak computer specs can handle them.

I keep learning new things. I would have thought system requirements depended on things such as resolution, number of objects/polygons, texture size and colour depth, dynamic graphics effects such as shadows (and their quality), light reflections and refractions, anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering, range of visibility, etc. - no matter whether all the fancy tech stuff is used to display a brooding dystopia or a glaringly colourful and oversaturated cartoon world. Borderlands 2, for example, has extremely cartoonish graphics, and it also has rather high system requirements. Cartoonish or not is a matter of style, not of technical complexity.

Don't get me wrong here, you can like cartoonish graphics all you want, and that's perfectly fine. I just think the points you use to defend your point of view (which isn't necessary in the first place because it's entirely a matter of taste) are not convincing at all.

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Logical fallacy. Just because A is true means B is true, does not mean if B is true A is true. Yes boarderlands 2 has steep requirements for its real cartoony look. Does not mean cartoony looks require advanced requirements.

I think what UC and I are saying is that it is easier to make stylized graphics look good on weaker specs, while going for photorealism is much more difficult and it doesn't age as well. The two examples I use for this are World of Warcraft and the non organic CG from Babylon 5. It has only been in the past couple of years that they have really started showing their age graphically. Much of this is attributed to the art direction of bold colors and using simple shapes to their advantages. Granted Wows graphics have been given a few facelifts of the years, but if you look at the low requirements there is a lot of bang for buck.

Compare that to what was herald as a king of photorealism from the same year Wow was released, Flight simulator 2004

microsoft-flight-simulator-2004-a-century-of-flight-20060705024231178.jpg

Or Doom3 (check out the resolution of the subway car textures and the floor. Eiack!)

o56y82ky6b.jpg

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I agree with croxis regarding art direction. Regarding stylized graphics, yes, it is easier to render them with weaker specs and does not age as quickly, since stylized graphics avoid the problem with the uncanny valley, in which "realistic" graphics can turn some people off. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 looks very dated to me, as compared with WoW, which was made in the same year!

Even Dark Cloud 2 and Wind Waker look much better than the two images croxis posted above this post (despite the fact that Dark Cloud 2 and Wind Waker are both console video games made in 2002/2003!). Click on the links to view the art direction of those two games.

Another thing, please do not strawman my arguments. I am actually neutral regarding the art direction of SC2013. I am just stating that stylized graphics put less strain on the computer and I would lower my graphics settings to run on them.

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Well, stylized art in and of itself doesn't have lower system requirements (Borderland 2 for example), but when using lower requirements a stylized art direction looks better.

That is what I meant to say. Stylized art direction runs better on lower system requirements, but does not require them. Thank you for clarifying my point.

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