Smf_16 BAT thread

[smf_16 1,836]

Recently I uploaded my first BAT, something I thought SimCity was really missing: an ancient Greek theatre ( ). Most of the reviews were like "I like the idea, and the model is good, but the textures are awful. I suggest you open a BAT thread". I must agree that texturing is indeed my weakness, but I definitely want to improve myself, so I'm starting my own BAT thread right now.

Also, some said that the theatre was way too small, so I decided to start all over again and to make a new model with the real dimensions of the Epidauros theatre in Greece. This is the result (without textures):

The model is good in my opinion, but now comes the tricky part: the texturing. I make my models in AutoCAD, and then export them to the BAT. Therefore I can't use my AutoCAD materials library, but I'm also unfamiliar with the BAT. I just use it to export the model. Do you guys know any good tutorials or have any thoughts how I should give this model good textures. I went to visit this theatre a few years ago, so I have a lot of pictures of it. Can they help to texture it?

Anyway, any thougts would be helpful and I'll keep you guys up to date on how the work is proceeding!

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Great Start! You are correct, the modeling is excellent, can't wait to see textures on it.

[darn42 1,268]

I searched for the theatre in google images and found a pretty nice picture of it

If you notice, the basic modeling you've done is very good, but right now, it looks kind of plain and unrealistic. Irl the base area kinda thing is connected to the amphitheater stands and has a sand pit at the bottom. Then, there are ruins behind that near a new modern metal fence and there are also some columns to the side of the stadium. I would add these details into the stadium at least. You could find even more things you could model to add to the level of detail that would make it look more professional.

As far as texturing goes I'm not the best at it and I am still working on my ability to texture, but in the picture you see it's some kinda of mottled grey stone with a bit of tan and pink in it. Go to cgtextures.com and find a nice base stone texture that you like--the color doesn't really matter, make sure the feel of the stone is right and all that--then bring it into gimp to create a unique texture that fits your needs. Make sure you get a texture that tiles in cgtextures. You can layer low opacity levels of color to change the tint of the stone texture in gimp so that it matches the color of the stadium. One quick way to check color on your model vs. real life, is to create the model at hd, then use the eyedropper to check a color against real life, if they aren't the same, edit your texture to match better.

If you can get 3ds max, do it. I have no clue what kind of modeling tools autoCAD has but I'm sure there might be some more efficient ways to model stuff in autoCAD vs. 3ds max and vice versa. The main thing is that 3ds max has much more realistic renders than gmax and better software in general to handle more polygons and such. If you do decide to model something fast or something in the BAT, 3ds max would have much easier and more efficient ways to do it faster. So I would do some small projects in 3ds max alone eventually just to get acclimated; model a bench, some sort of vase, something small but might challenge how you can model something. Also, the fbx plugin in autodesk applications will help speed up switching back and forth faster if you have 3ds max.

Digitaltutors.com has some good free tutorials on 3ds max to help get started and learn new stuff if you need it.

Also, you are free to ask me for any help regarding 3ds max. If you want me to help model something small that's very detailed I believe I'm the only person on this site that has zbrush, and I can do high poly stuff very efficiently using that. For example, if you give me the boxes for the ruins at the base of the stadium at the right scale and such, I can quickly make those into something that looks like eroded stone.

Also, present your previews as just the render image in gmax/3ds max, just take a screenshot of it or click the save button and use that image. It's a lot easier to evaluate the BAT itself that way.

Good luck and I hope this helps you. I will do an example of a texture for the amphitheatre for you in a bit.

  Edited July 31, 2012 by darn42  

[smf_16 1,836]

Thanks, that's some good advice. The reason I model in AutoCAD is because we learned how to in university. I didn't want to spend time on learning how to model in gmax (which has an awful interface in comparision to autoCAD) while I could simply import my models from AutoCAD.

I do have 3ds max installed but I can't figure out how to export my models. I know it needs BAT4Max (which I have installed), but when I tried to export a simple model one time, I encountered an error (something with using flush on an undefined object). If I succeed in exporting something from 3ds max, maybe I'll use something hybrid: modelling in AutoCAD, texturing in 3ds Max.

Anyway, I'll start by making a texture in GIMP and I'll definitely show what the result looks like. Thanks!

[darn42 1,268]

yea, I can't use gmax either :| The export sequence of 3ds max does go through gmax though. I would definitely try to get that to work as it will make your models look significantly better in game and for the other reasons I posted earlier. Once I get time to make it, I will do an example for you of some texturing.

[smf_16 1,836]

In a first attempt I searched cgtextures.com for a texture, edited it a bit in gimp, and this is the result:

I can't say I really like the result, but it's a start. I should probably texture the stairs and the parts between it seperately, I guess that would look more realistic.

[darn42 1,268]

I still haven't gotten able to give an example. But the closest image I found to the texture on the reference was this.

http://cgtextures.co...opr2g9utgvat0f0

You just need to edit the color a little bit. Then set a UV tile and set it to tile a lot and look at individual seats as a reference. Also, you'll save time if you don't export until you are done. Just do all your texturing in 3ds max rather than gmax and figure out exporting later. Exporting is the last part of the process.

  Edited July 31, 2012 by darn42  

[JayStimson 211]

Be patient with yourself. Texturing can take way longer to get right then the design.

Once you find an appropriate texture to try it's all about uvm mapping. My first

try would be with a simple brick tecture, apply a uvm map with radial (spherical)

mapping. Then adjust the scaling of the map until the brick size matches the rows

of seats the way you like. This is all of course presuming your doing this in gmax/BAT. Good luck.

[smf_16 1,836]

@darn42 Allright, I managed to export my theatre (without textures though) from 3ds max. I'll try adding the texture you suggested, but what is a uv tile or a uv map?

EDIT: I'm reading this: http://waylon-art.com/uvw_tutorial/uvwtut_03.html right now, so I have an idea of what it is.

  Edited July 31, 2012 by smf_16  

[darn42 1,268]

You don't really need to do the whole unwrap UVWs. I just thought of a method of making the amphitheatre that would make texturing very very simple. I'll have to see if I can do it first. I'll post a small tutorial on it or something if it works.

[Vlasky 1,803]

I was there

[darn42 1,268]

I did just a really short tutorial with not that many steps showing up to it since I don't have much time. Basically, you can polygon model this type of thing rather quickly since there are very many identical parts.

I didn't take many pictures along the way unfortunately :| You'll have to get oriented with polygon modeling anyways to do this. I'm not familiar with autoCAD so I'm not sure what polygon modeling methods you have in that. But if you can make this as one object with identical pieces in that then you're fine. Basically, create a with all the seating and such modeled in, no curve. I forgot to add that inset in, but it shouldn't be too hard. Anyways, once you have your box modeled, export it to 3ds max, and add a bend modifier and increase the angle until it looks like the amphitheatre. To make the seats you can use connect, inset, extrude, and vertical scale to do it really fast.

Like that.

Now, if you add a UVW map just below the bend modifier, your uvws are oriented to the seats perfectly with almost no hassle. Then you can add your texture and fit it to very easily. Hit the bitmap fit button in the uvw map rollout and select the bitmap you wanted to use.

There I did that, then once you fit the bitmap you can select the gizmo in the stack and scale that down to scale the texture size.

Here I've detached the seats by selecting one of them, then selecting the similar ones by hitting similar in the modify selection rollout in the graphite modeling tools, then hitting grow and detaching them. Then I textured it with a new texture. Then I just found a sand texture and textured a cylinder at the bottom.

I have just done this to show a method of texturing, I haven't spent much time on this at all, nor did I edit my textures to look any better. So I expect you to spend more time on it.

If you need help with the modeling stuff I can explain it to you in more detail in the chat. good luck

  Edited August 1, 2012 by darn42  

[Evillions 552]

Oh wow, you made it easier than it looks. That's a creative use for the stairs mesh, I never thought of that.

[darn42 1,268]

Tbh I just modeled it out instead of using stairs... Wish I had thought of that though it wasn't too much work the way I did it as it was.

[smf_16 1,836]

Allright, I did some experimenting with the texture and I came to a nice result imho.

I got a few questions though, is it possible in 3ds max to texture a face instead of an object? I'm not really comfortable with the edges of the tribunes, so I want to give them another texture, but they're part of the stairs. I don't know how to texture only the face.

Further, I don't know how to "scale" a texture. There has to be a way to set how big the textures appear on the model, but I can't figure out how.

And Darn, your technique with the bend tool seems to be very useful, but unfortunatly I didn't make my model in AutoCAD that way. I just made a flat polyline, and then used the revolve tool, so the tribunes were curved all the time. Later I made the stairs on it.

How do you all like the texture on the seats? If you like it, I'll modify my model a bit and add the gates at the sides and stuff...

[paulvmontfort 616]

you can texture a single face in two ways:

- detach the face from the object to get a separate object

- use material id's and a multi/sub material

Textures can be scaled using mapping modifiers. I personally almost always use the UVW map modifier

I don't really see textures on the seats or you have a tiling issue there. There's room for improvement

Good luck

  Edited August 1, 2012 by paulvmontfort  

[harishna 847]

It is a step forward but you need to work a bit more with textures/materials/uvw maps and you should also check the scale of the seats/steps.

[darn42 1,268]

You need to add a uvw map, right now your textures are messed up :| You might want to watch a few basic texturing tutorials on the uvw map modifier, it'll help you a lot.

Here's one.

http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/training.php?vid=1657&autoplay=1

  Edited August 1, 2012 by darn42  

[smf_16 1,836]

Well, seems like I'll have to read/watch a few tutorials on the UVW map modifier.

@Darn: this digital tutors site seems to have some very good tutorials, but unfortunately I can't watch the video's. I have to subscribe (and therefore pay a lot) for it.

[blunder 1,079]

The BAT tutorial board over at sc4d almost always has what i'm looking for when i go searching for BAT knowledge.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=39.0

[darn42 1,268]

There are many free tutorials at digital tutors. Pretty much any of the videos that are single lessons on a certain modifier or something like that, like this uvw tutorial (I believe this one's free) are free. I watched all of the free tutorials before I subscribed to it, and I learned a lot from it. The main thing to know is that the ones labeled free are usually at the very end of the list of tutorials. The "free" identification doesn't show up for me since I'm subscribed and signed in so I'm just using speculation to see if it's free or not.

  Edited August 1, 2012 by darn42  

[danuniversal 3]

Where can I download it?

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Please don't bump this thread. 

 

There's hasn't been any update for more than a half year and if there's anything he wants to share with us he will let us know. So please don't push other threads back! 

 

Thanks