Discussion about Always-On Connection to Origin

[Urban Cartographer 601]

We should jointly create a petition on change.org.

[cirugo 1,889]

Created an account just to share my thoughts. I absolutely adore the Sim City series, I grew up playing them. They have always been pretty solid games that scratch a rather niche itch with (well made) city management.

Origin I'm ok with, it's not that bad and the spyware rumours about it are completely unfounded (I will provide proof if people are uncertain). It's just a shame that EA force it down our throat with every new release now, but it's something that I'll take given that it's no worse than steam (not talking about customer reputation or the company who run it here). A permanent online connection I'm OK with too provided there's offline play as well. I don't mean the faux-offline connection dropping ability, I mean a proper ability to run without internet connection. Making a game online only, a la Diablo 3, is a cheap and nasty form of DRM. Blizzard can just about, by the skin of their teeth, get away with it as that was designed as a co-op game, but Sim City certainly can't. I know that most of us are on decent internet deals with virtually unlimited downloads but what about people who don't have this? Or those of us who want to play it whilst travelling, hell even commuting like our Sims/agents? It's just not fair to dictate when we can and can't play the game that we paid for, especially a game that is fundamentally single player experience. Multiplayer should be an option not a requirement; I would love to create regions with friends and have cities/economies that affect each other but I don't want to be forced into it every time I want to play and I imagine that most of us here agree. Dark Souls is the epitome of doing this right, excluding GFWL. It's predominantly online but works absolutely fine in offline mode, without an internet connection.

That said, Sim City 2013 really does interest me as a game; it looks polished even in the (pre) alpha footage, it looks like they've really considered how to make the economy run and it seems to have recaptured the spirit that Societies lost. For that reason, I'll probably pre order it (and use the £40 for a free game or two) and give it a try on release. If it runs offline I'll keep it and if not I'll demand a refund, something they are legally obliged to do here in the UK. I just hope Maxis see sense and listen to the community.

EDIT: Is there a petition that doesn't read like it was written by a 13 year old and Maxis might take seriously? That one above hurt my eyes to read.

that's all anyone's asking for

[Grogmar 0]

I don't see why anyone would find Simcity's online side to be off-putting, its just like any typical origin game where you have to be connected to the internet to start the game. it'll probably be a bit disappointing but at least it will be likely less bare than Cities XL.

[Grogmar 0]

SimCity 5 sounds ok for now but i doubt it will stay that way.At some point EA will make it even more restricted and mod tools will be forgotten.After all why are you going to buy DLC when you can download a superior mod for free?

EA could allow people to sell their mods via Origin, with EA taking a portion of every sale. As long as EA can restrict mods so that they have to be downloaded from EA, this would allow community modding while ensuring that EA makes money from allowing modding.

EA aren't that bad if any company restricted mods to be charged which to me is extremely ludacris they'd know its likely to harm sales... So far Simcity's online connection seems okish, its not always-on which was misunderstood from the sensationalist websites such as VG247 or Eurogamer.

Quoted from Wikipedia,

This version of SimCity will be the first to feature full online play since Maxis's SimCity 2000 Network Edition,^[1] allowing for regions to house multiple cities from different players. Regions can alternatively be set to private for solo play. ^[17]

SimCity will require players to be logged into EA's Origin service to play the game. An active internet connection will be required every time the game is launched. The connection is asynchronous,^[18] so any brief network disturbance will not interrupt the gameplay.

  Edited September 16, 2012 by CaptCity  
Let's not comment on the value of the opinions of the community.

[cirugo 1,889]

I don't see why anyone would find Simcity's online side to be off-putting, its just like any typical origin game where you have to be connected to the internet to start the game. it'll probably be a bit disappointing but at least it will be likely less bare than Cities XL.

You don't have to understand why...all you need to know is that they DO find it off-putting and won't buy it because of it. If you like the idea of playing online then that's great! So do I. I just refuse to have no other option.

SimCity 5 sounds ok for now but i doubt it will stay that way.At some point EA will make it even more restricted and mod tools will be forgotten.After all why are you going to buy DLC when you can download a superior mod for free?

EA could allow people to sell their mods via Origin, with EA taking a portion of every sale. As long as EA can restrict mods so that they have to be downloaded from EA, this would allow community modding while ensuring that EA makes money from allowing modding.

EA aren't that bad if any company restricted mods to be charged which to me is extremely ludacris they'd know its likely to harm sales... So far Simcity's online connection seems okish, its not always-on which was misunderstood from the sensationalist websites such as VG247 or Eurogamer.

Quoted from Wikipedia,

This version of SimCity will be the first to feature full online play since Maxis's SimCity 2000 Network Edition,^[1] allowing for regions to house multiple cities from different players. Regions can alternatively be set to private for solo play. ^[17]

SimCity will require players to be logged into EA's Origin service to play the game. An active internet connection will be required every time the game is launched. The connection is asynchronous,^[18] so any brief network disturbance will not interrupt the gameplay.

It DOES require a constant internet connection to play and all they've said about that is that they're working on a solution to BRIEF network disturbances. That does NOT mean you only need to be connected to start the game.

[Jayded1 26]

I don't see why anyone would find Simcity's online side to be off-putting, its just like any typical origin game where you have to be connected to the internet to start the game. it'll probably be a bit disappointing but at least it will be likely less bare than Cities XL.

I'll explain why in my circumstances, I spend a lot of time at my mothers because she is disabled, So i look after her most days. But it involves a lot of sitting around so I have a computer there & like to play games, i can't afford a second internet connection & she has no need for one. So games that insist upon Steam or Origin etc are about as useful as a chocolate kettle for me.

Sorry for deviating from the thread discussion, but I'm fed up of reading why being online to play a single player game isn't a problem., it's a huge problem for me & a lack of a sale for the new Sim city

[chocolate_city 93]

just delete it please ... your editing, although totally within your boundaries, makes my comment and whats now posted senseless.. . I apologize for my original post.

  Edited September 16, 2012 by chocolate_city  
Let's keep it a discussion. A simple "not everyone can/wants" would have sufficed...

[Kinderly 191]

The online play won't last. CitiesXL had multiplayer for some time, they got rid of it. Plus the fact that CXL is fully mod-able.

  Edited September 23, 2012 by Kinderly  

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

I agree that the online version is a mega risk. As a rule, social network addicts have short attention span anyway. But after checking out everyone's reactions on popular Simcity boards, it seems the greatest hurdle for always-on-play is EA/Origin's reputation - on privacy, and treatment of users.

Also, there's the "People want to keep their cities alive for as long as they choose" aspect Ea/Maxis don't seem to get. Probably because the decision-makers have never created a single thing they love in their life. They don't understand why we want our babies to be alive and secure in our own safe-keeping. Achievement/status is NOT the same as Created Cities. If WoW suddenly close shop, people lose their status, an abstract, that's all; but if Ea suddenly decides SimcityMMO is high maintenance and shuts it down (these nasty things happen all the time in MMO), everyone loses actual cities they poured their heart and soul on. Would any companies use 3DSMax cloud storage if the vendor says we own everything you create and will keep/destroy your creations at our whim? Why would people have children, if the government says you can't take your newborn baby out of their nursery, but you are welcome to feed and clothe the baby in their "always on" nursery. This government refuses to comment about burning down many previous nurseries with babies in them.

Who knows, some strange people may take to building cities on their neighbor's and government's terms. But most sane human beings and simcity gamers hate people messing with their CREATIONS and babies. Simcity MMO may attract the strangest mix of characters, so best of luck server managers for it's going to be way messier than SimsOnline. There are too many reasons always-on collaborative city-building could go very wrong. That is why Maxis should hedge their bets and market two SEPARATE versions, SIMCITYONLINE2013, and SIMCITY:SANDBOX2013. I have no doubt the latter will get a double digit million pre-orders within a month of announcement.

Keeping my fins flapping for Maxis's wisdom...

  Edited September 28, 2012 by SoftcoreGamer  

[Super Creeper 37]

If there is sim CIty 2013 on the making, does anyone have any pre-release shots?

[bnsf 3]

I find this fact extremely disappointing that i must be online all the time, I really am not sure if i want to buy this unless they add an offline only mode

[CaptCity 4,904]

More pruning... Let's keep it on topic...

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Six more months to go, a lot can STILL happen. For the love of SimCity, let’s continue to hope, that Maxis will become pragmatic and market two separate versions of the game: SimCity2013 ONLINE, as well as SimCity2013 OFFLINE, the standalone, solo-play, sandbox version. Alternative names could be Simcity2013: Sandbox, Standalone, Solitaire, God Mode, Traditional, Original, etc.. This post is to argue for the seller's benefit of offering "SimCity2013 Twins". Apology for the length in advance, please kindly add your views and opinions.

So far, it seems the SimCity ship is being steered off to an extremely ambitious, unproven, high-risk direction, and for unfathomable reason, the 20yo consistent and successful formula has been thrown over board. Genius move or preventable Titanic, the verdict is not out til 1stQ. Here’s the current ground level reality, lifted off official forum:

Online only Sc2013 – 96% will NOT buy; 4% will buy

Offline only Sc2013 – 33% will buy

Offline and Online as two separate games – 63% will buy BOTH

Strong yet unsurprising reaction. Evidently, Simcity2013Online is only SimCity in name. In essense, it is a totally different product aiming at a totally different mindset. Protests by traditional players have gone into a black hole so far. Very likely, the Zynga-obsessed big bosses are narrowly courting a new theoretical SimCity audience: the multi-million Cityville and The Sims crowd. The hope is they could be coaxed into…patiently and obediently building big, global, mutually-impacting cities…together.

Reality is however, something else. TheSimsOnline had demonstrated clearly why certain traditional offline games will stubbornly stay offline. The Sims crowd is not as “social” and “architectural” as some fantasize. Reminder: they may be tricked online, but they did not stay. 99% of The Sims home-builders never cared much for the easy-to-use Create-a-world tool; their interest is near and micro, tilt shift not required. The expressive, possessive Sims crowd simply will not “co-build” their precious homes and gardens with “friends”. They’d totally apathetic towards “community” projects, “leader” competitions, “fighting” annoying neighbors – precisely the real life stuff they are trying to escape from.

But here’s the biggest deal-breaker: The Sims players are highly sentimental and protective of their creative babies, will rage like EA’s biggest ever nightmare if anyone dare server-kill their darling houses and Sims. SimCity players feel as strongly about their city babies. News Alert: No sane gamers will let a ruthless trigger-happy tyrant game server/vendor watch over their game babies. It will be super expensive to underestimate the creative ownership needs of The Sims and SimCity gamers.

The mega fantasy is a 3D SimFacebook success. Reality is gamers are a lot more diverse and logistics highly complicated. For example, 99.63% of CityVille player’s PC may have trouble running CitiesXL, an offline 3D game, what chance Sc2013 online? And then there’s the crazy bandwidth demand and people’s tolerance of server issues. It really, really makes sense to have a back-up plan… We customers want as much as EA/Maxis for the next SimCity venture to be a big success and entertain us for a long long time!

Summary of SC2013 Online pitfalls:

- Cityville/SC Social people are satiated with plenty of too-similar offerings

- Social Network people are spoiled with a glut of attention-seeking games and social outlets

- MMO people are specific in taste; they like shoot/kill, not create/build

- SimCity people are SOLO ARTISTS; they hate SimCity Social and Societies with a passion.

- TheSims people are SOLO ARTISTS; they deserted TheSimsOnline and never look back.

- People who have been simming homes and cities privately and peacefully all these years will not care for a chaotic public environment with constant looming threats of bad neighbors and erratic government wiping out their beloved creations just to make way for SimCity2015.

It is too easy for established businesses to lose touch with ground level reality and make totally clueless big moves with high collateral damages. SimCity, an admired icon of the game industry is being bent out of shape into a compromised chimera. Whatever it is, it is not SimCity. The new shiny chimera will please neither left nor right, except its proud parents.

Maybe the shiny MMO pet chimera is a very “new exciting toy rental experience whoa!!!” to the self-congratulating lab scientists, BUT we main street pet shoppers asked for a “normal living pet puppy”! For TEN years! We don’t want to rent-a-chimera! We want to buy, own and keep our puppy in our house! We may try to love your chimera later, but give us the normal pet puppy we asked for first!

It’s not that people have no confidence in Maxis making a beautiful product. People are so relieved it is Maxis not Tilted Mill. Long time fans have confidence in Maxis, just not Origin. Reputation is powerful stuff, and can’t blame people for having no faith in a consistent consumer violator. If human emotion and consumer feedback are worthless, there will be no game businesses. If passionate gamers do not voice their love or hate, there will no Spore PR debacle – and no Spore PROFIT.

The irony is, even as typical SimCity solo players groan about projected MMO evils, we are still potentially the most enthusiastic, most proliferative SimCityOnline pioneers. BUT, if we feel unceremoniously discarded by our most beloved game’s creators, if the game launches without our offline sandbox dream, EA can bet even the 63% who will generously pay $120 for both offline online versions will say bye-bye on principal alone.

On the other hand, if this pent-up 10-years-old desire becomes reality, these passionate ones will be the most delirious and excited and proactive voluntary promoters of even SimCity ONLINE. “OMG EA is not that evil!!” Imagine that. The resulted TWIN PRODUCT LONGEVITY may surpass even SC4.

At the least twin-versions will insure for dev cost recovery. Remember SC4 total unit sales. It makes total sense to put precious SimCity2013 eggs in more than one basket. If the MMO basket breaks/ struggles/ takes more than 18 months to grow wings, the other sure-bet instant-hit Offline Sandbox basket shall cushion things and give marketing department something to hype about. And if both babies fly high, single dev, TWIN revenue!

So dear EA/Maxis, here’s the INSTANT worldwide demand of many millions of copies of SimCity 2013 Offline Sandbox version, waiting patiently and earnestly for you to make our 10-years-old dream come true. 63% core audience willing to buy two versions at $120 per head - that should count for something? $60 x 10,000,000 in six months should make a lot of people very happy?

(edited bullets for list]

  Edited October 2, 2012 by CaptCity  
Let's stick to the topic and not try to insult other gamers.

[wozzar 154]

I wont be buying the game because of Orgin. I also think there will be such a big backlash against EA that they will get rid of it. Orgin isn't really working for them why do you think they try to buy Valve so they could get there hands on Steam. However Valve literally told EA to get lost Valve would rather self destruct than sell to EA. UBI didn't get away with this what makes EA think they will. don't forget they have tried to have this always online before and then they caved in because of the backlash.

  Edited October 2, 2012 by wozzar  

[alexbill 77]

I don't give a eff to online. The only big issues are highways and tile size. And petitions don't work , your puny opinion will change nothing and won't even have influence on the direction of the game.

[Don Bananos 28]

Evidently, Simcity2013Online is only SimCity in name. I

Oh dear god, that post was long! I had to go shave twice during the reading time, and still didn't read all the way through. All the colors just made it more difficult to read.

Just to correct you here. Well it maybe isn't the SimCity that you were looking for, but it is a SimCity, just not the next in line. It is a redo of the franchise, and therefore would it not be appropriate to compare the two titles.

I for one, am looking forward to this game, and truly hopes it becomes a success, and that there will one day (probably in 25+ years) be a SimCity2, SimCity3, and SimCity4(000? ) redo.

Bear in mind that English is my second language, and I am sorry for possible misspellings.

-Mike

[Azurespecter 506]

Online only Sc2013 – 96% will NOT buy; 4% will buy

Offline only Sc2013 – 33% will buy

Offline and Online as two separate games – 63% will buy BOTH

Sorry, but I got this far and realized that 94% of your statistics were made up on the spot. Apart from all the made up numbers, the idea just isn't realistic. The game is meant to be online because the new Simcity is meant to be multiplayer. I actually think this is a great idea, although I disagree with many of the feature costs to implement this.

[spiritbw 111]

Actually looking at those I think he's pulling some of the stats form a poll that's been going on in the official simcity forums. The choices are do you want Online play, Offline play or a mix between of the two. The Thread in question is here.

How do you prefer to play SimCity

Permanently Online 4% [ 28 ]

Permanently Offline 33% [ 211 ]

A mix between the two 62% [ 398 ]

Looks like he was taking his own interpretation on the stats but they more or less match up. Bracketed numbers are the votes.

  Edited October 1, 2012 by spiritbw  

[VeritaScientia 150]

They wouldn't really even need two versions, just the same version with offline play

[Azurespecter 506]

Actually looking at those I think he's pulling some of the stats form a poll that's been going on in the official simcity forums. The choices are do you want Online play, Offline play or a mix between of the two. The Thread in question is here.

How do you prefer to play SimCity

Permanently Online 4% [ 28 ]

Permanently Offline 33% [ 211 ]

A mix between the two 62% [ 398 ]

Looks like he was taking his own interpretation on the stats but they more or less match up. Bracketed numbers are the votes.

Noted. I apologize for the bad assumption.

However, the OP definitely takes that poll far into his own interpretation. Preferring to play offline only does not equal "will buy an offline only game" and preferring a mix of both certainly isn't "i'll buy two separate games."

One must also take into account bias. You need to consider what kind of people are going onto the SimCity forums and taking the time to read through them and post on polls. I personally believe that this poll is heavily biased. But that's a little off-topic...

Main point again is that this SimCity is meant to be online and multiplayer. This thread is asking for a completely different game. Which is alright to wish for... but not realistic by any means at this time.

[cirugo 1,889]

I wont be buying the game because of Orgin. I also think there will be such a big backlash against EA that they will get rid of it. Orgin isn't really working for them why do you think they try to buy Valve so they good get there hands on Steam. However Valve literally told EA to get lost Valve would rather self destruct than sell to EA. UBI didn't get away with this what makes EA think they will. don't forget they have tried to have this always online before and then they caved in because of the backlash.

They think that, just like Diablo, the name and reputation will be enough to overcome that objection.

[cirugo 1,889]

They wouldn't really even need two versions, just the same version with offline play

thank you!!!!

why is that so hard to understand???

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Thanks for the many interesting responses to yet another one of my long-winded posts!

@Spiritbw – thanks for posting the EA forum poll link!

@Azurespecter – apology accepted!

@Bananos – please refer to my “advanced apology for a long post” stated clearly in the first paragraph!

So, the poll now says 4% online-only versus 33% offline-only! The ratio is? 1:8 !!! **TADA**. Hopefully Maxis stats dept is taking note...

The 96% who request for offline are a proven worldwide commercial success group who care deeply about the franchise. They are understandably attached to the NORMAL way the game has been played for 10 - 20 years: OFFLINE. And they have made themselves clear: nothing will seduce/force them to produce city babies online, UNLESS they are given a full-functioning offline version they get to keep in worst case scenario. The Sims crowd is just like SimCity crowd in their offline and baby-ownership needs. Both groups numbers in millions, good money still being thrown away...

Wine aficionados will not become soda addicts because wine is banned. It’s time to face the futility of deprivation tactic. Almost every traditionally-single games pushed online died a wasteful death in less than a year. SimCity Online will be a far bigger gamble than SimCity Social; that is why it will need the support of its older, stronger, more experienced Offline sibling. So the 4% should cultivate basic manners, stop bullying the 96% have-nots, and start cheerleading for the far more credible Offline sibling.

No matter how Maxis pushes dazzles or twists words, people are NOT pre-ordering like mad, are they? Offline SimCity requesters have said OUTLOUD they are fine with frequent anti-piracy online check-ins, haven’t they? We all want Maxis and SimCity to live long and prosper, do we not? This is post-2008 game industry, best to keep it conservative. Let’s find a WIN-WIN between Online and Offline lovers, a WIN-WIN between EA/Maxis and traditional SimCity customers:

Offer BOTH Online and Offline SimCity2013 as two separate games.

In worst case EA/Maxis could recoup their investment. In best case EA/Maxis will double their profit. At most conservative, Offline could fetch $120,000,000 at launch, and more optimistically, $600,000,000 first year. Expansion packs for two versions means quadruple profit.

May pragmatism prevail...

  Edited October 3, 2012 by CaptCity  
Let's stick to the topic and not make general statements regarding other posters

[wozzar 154]

SCS was killed by simtropolis and SCS13 will be killed by simtropolis and the reason why is because EA are trying to get the Sims crowd which is why SCS failed last time and will fail again this time also adding the fact that you alawys have to be online the game is doomed from the start. I really dont understand EA they just dont get it and they never learn.

[Jim14409 448]

SCS was killed by simtropolis and SCS13 will be killed by simtropolis and the reason why is because EA are trying to get the Sims crowd which is why SCS failed last time and will fail again this time also adding the fact that you alawys have to be online the game is doomed from the start. I really dont understand EA they just dont get it and they never learn.

To the exclusion of reality, the big picture, and long term benefit GREED takes over and dictates above and beyond common sense and the nose on ones face. They can't learn, they are blinded.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

It is unfortunate that EA is targeting the Sims crowd. With that in mind, they will fail, because most people who play the Sims (yes, I also play the Sims), want to create the house of family of their dreams, not compete with millions of Joneses, which will end up nowhere.

A 100% offline single player version of SC2013 alongside online SC2013 will work wonders. If EA wants a social version of SimCity, they are creating SimCity Social. We do not want a $60 "full version" of SimCity Social with many corners cut. It would be the best of both worlds for every party in question (EA, Maxis, loyal SimCity fans, loyal The Sims fans, casuals, etc.). EA, why is it so hard to create a 100% offline single player version? Many of us SC4 fans have been waiting for a true successor for a decade (SCS does not cut it). EA, please do not disappoint us, just like with Blizzard disappointing many of their fans.

  Edited October 2, 2012 by Urban Cartographer  

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Blizzard did more than disappointing the fans – their recalcitrant everything-online policy is negatively impacting gaming businesses all the way in South Korea, and now it's their turn to pay the price. The pains and hazards of always-on and server malfunctions…go both ways.

The consensus everywhere is, always-on is a bad business idea. In this Forbes article Ubisoft Throws in the Towel on Always-On DRM, always-on is described as “intrusive”, “draconian”, “did nothing, mind you, other than upset paying customers”, “there’s no logical reason to punish paying customers”, “now that Ubisoft has taken down their always-on DRM, and hopefully other companies like EA and Activision will follow suit.”

EA should seriously consider Ubisoft’s latest approach: no more always on, only online activation. This is how Ubisoft turned around their angry and stubbornly abstaining fans. Some fans started shopping again it seems, though some are still seething that it took them this long. Obviously, Ubisoft’s disastrous former policy had cost them very dearly. Bravo Ubisoft customers.

Always-on is a dumb broad-spectrum killer of customers and profit, sold to clueless impressionable game bosses wearing emperor’s new clothes. Imposing always-on on single games to kill piracy, is like nuking the whole city just to kill some thieves. The only party who benefits is the nuke maker. The party with the most to lose, is actually the game company - investment, jobs and career reputation. It really doesn’t pay to prejudge customers as thieves.

Yes there are thieves and pirates, but there are also honest, loyal customers. Long staying niche fans know how vulnerable their fav franchise is – they would do anything - buy two three copies, share goodies, scold thieves and pirates, promote the game, build communities to ensure their game’s survival. But SimCity traditional fans are also used to being starved, so don’t bet on their cheap surrender.

Smarter game companies are already moving on from their DRM dogma. EA could avoid Ubisoft’s sorry fate and proactively champion the virtues of offline single-player games. Or learn humility the hard way.

For, at the end of the day, the customer is always right.

[VeritaScientia 150]

It is unfortunate that EA is targeting the Sims crowd. With that in mind, they will fail, because most people who play the Sims (yes, I also play the Sims), want to create the house of family of their dreams, not compete with millions of Joneses, which will end up nowhere.

A 100% offline single player version of SC2013 alongside online SC2013 will work wonders. If EA wants a social version of SimCity, they are creating SimCity Social. We do not want a $60 "full version" of SimCity Social with many corners cut. It would be the best of both worlds for every party in question (EA, Maxis, loyal SimCity fans, loyal The Sims fans, casuals, etc.). EA, why is it so hard to create a 100% offline single player version? Many of us SC4 fans have been waiting for a true successor for a decade (SCS does not cut it). EA, please do not disappoint us, just like with Blizzard disappointing many of their fans.

UC, there's a lot of cross-pollination between the Sims and SimCity, I seriously doubt many Sims players are going to be dumb enough to play SimCity the same way they play The Sims.

[spiritbw 111]

It is unfortunate that EA is targeting the Sims crowd. With that in mind, they will fail, because most people who play the Sims (yes, I also play the Sims), want to create the house of family of their dreams, not compete with millions of Joneses, which will end up nowhere.

As has been mentioned in another thread, if they are trying for the Sims crowd, they aren't listening to them either.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

It is unfortunate that EA is targeting the Sims crowd. With that in mind, they will fail, because most people who play the Sims (yes, I also play the Sims), want to create the house of family of their dreams, not compete with millions of Joneses, which will end up nowhere.

As has been mentioned in another thread, if they are trying for the Sims crowd, they aren't listening to them either.

I agree. No matter what, unless they listen to loyal SimCity fans, the new SimCity will be a failure.