SimCity: Transit and Roading Networks

[jrm541992 17]

In my opinion as long as we can't construct this highway systems Sim City will not be a discent City builder game!

[pics of highway interchanges]

(Images were taking from XL nation - a CITIES XL fans community)

Now Maxis should take it into account that a game without HIGHWAYS, SUBWAYS and enough area to build those is USELESS.

I hope they will get themself together before it's too late. we as the community will never forgive ourself for letting this chance go away..

Highway constructs like that would require too much work/pre-planning for the average player (and I bet one of those took at least 4 hours to build); I'd be more contempt with pre-fab interchanges.

[remixof1983 10]

just want to chime in on this whole discussion. i've posted this in other places but wanted to share it here as well.

while the new simcity seems to have less transportation network choices, what's more important to me is that what actually is in the game will be COMPLETELY FUNCTIONAL. without nam, simcity 4's traffic generator was a mess and once your city reached a certain population, it was a total disaster. even with the nam, traffic eventually can become overwhelming without properly planning ahead. sure, the real highway mod makes for some beautiful highways and junctions but most of the time they don't function in the way they should and are rendered completely useless, serving no real function other than pure eyecandy. additionally, a huge problem with simcity 4 is that sims would always take the shortest physical route rather than the most effective route. the new game fixes this by having them take the fastest route instead. then there's the fact that the automata isn't persistent so you'd have cars appearing and disappearing at random. in the new game, every vehicle on the road, every bus, every train, etc, is a real object simulated in the game and you can watch it depart and arrive at its destination.

yes, it's a shame that we're not getting certain transportation options, but i rather have the developers focus on creating a limited amount of real and fully functional networks instead of just cramming the game with as much stuff as possible.

[grugor 60]

there's the fact that the automata isn't persistent so you'd have cars appearing and disappearing at random. in the new game, every vehicle on the road, every bus, every train, etc, is a real object simulated in the game and you can watch it depart and arrive at its destination.

yes, it's a shame that we're not getting certain transportation options, but i rather have the developers focus on creating a limited amount of real and fully functional networks instead of just cramming the game with as much stuff as possible.

This alone was the selling point for me. everything else was secondary. i hated in sc4 and XL when you placed a roundabout and the traffic would just disappear.

My next priority was road types and after a bit of worrying that all the roads would be on ground level, we find out about overpasses and tunnels. No one way roads though which is a bummer or merging roads (not sure on this one).

Subways ? dont really care as long as we have trams.

Tbh , the only thing im really disappointed about is the tilesize, but who isnt. I wish they would just release a final completed city screen

[Linoa06 1,374]

Eh, it does reflect a trend, but I still would love subways..

But can someone please confirm that trams can be buried undergrounds? In such case can just go pretend it's a subway. XD I've heard it was possible, but couldn't find a confirmation anywhere.

[mapboy 106]

But can someone please confirm that trams can be buried undergrounds? In such case can just go pretend it's a subway. XD I've heard it was possible, but couldn't find a confirmation anywhere.

Well, it hasn't been directly confirmed, but it is known that the tram lines can be built separately and also that tunnels are possible.

I'm not aware of underground stations being included, however.

[Linoa06 1,374]

Ah well, wait and see I guess! Trams are still pretty cool.

[Cob92 360]

In my opinion as long as we can't construct this highway systems Sim City will not be a discent City builder game!

[pics of highway interchanges]

(Images were taking from XL nation - a CITIES XL fans community)

Now Maxis should take it into account that a game without HIGHWAYS, SUBWAYS and enough area to build those is USELESS.

I hope they will get themself together before it's too late. we as the community will never forgive ourself for letting this chance go away..

Highway constructs like that would require too much work/pre-planning for the average player (and I bet one of those took at least 4 hours to build); I'd be more contempt with pre-fab interchanges.

Actually, it's possible to build a fully directional freeway interchange in CXL in less than 10 minutes. The RHM mod for CXL is well streamlined and allows interchanges to be constructed extremely quickly by placing transition pieces and then simply dragging the highways and ramps to connect the parts together. By doing these I can build an interchange between highway and road in 5 minutes. A full stack might take 10-15 minutes to build. And this is with a system that had to be forced into the game by modders. If developers incorporated a system like this into the game in such a way that transition parts were rendered unnecessary, building a ridiculous highway system could be as easy as a couple of click and drag motions.

[Tarkus 6,933]

The RealHighway system in SC4 also doesn't take prohibitively long, if you know what you're doing. The most complex interchanges I've built with released components have only taken about 30 minutes at most, and the simpler ones I've built in about 2 minutes. It will actually speed up with the next release, due to streamlining of many components. Yeah, it's not 5 seconds like a plop job, but there's a certain satisfaction you get actually putting things together, and you have a lot more options.

-Tarkus

[Cob92 360]

The RealHighway system in SC4 also doesn't take prohibitively long, if you know what you're doing. The most complex interchanges I've built with released components have only taken about 30 minutes at most, and the simpler ones I've built in about 2 minutes. It will actually speed up with the next release, due to streamlining of many components. Yeah, it's not 5 seconds like a plop job, but there's a certain satisfaction you get actually putting things together, and you have a lot more options.

-Tarkus

Having used both system, I'd say that RHW has a steeper learning curve. You need separate parts for ground level and elevated networks, and since each transition takes up a fixed amount of space, failing to measure correctly can force you to go through a lot of excess demolition and rebuilding. It's not the design of the mod, but rather the nature of the game that makes the RHM quicker and simpler to use than RHW. You can do things in CXL that are either impossible or require complex workarounds to accomplish in SC4. The RHW is a beautiful thing, and really pushes the limits of what is possible in a decade old game, but the RHM is a better model for what highway building should be like in future city builders (the perfect one would be a completely fluid and intuitive system, so that you can draw ramps off the main highway the same as you would draw any other road). It should allow room for complexity and creativity, but building basic networks, without fancy frills or spaghetti junctions, should be quick and simple, so that players who simply want a crude expressway to cross their city can get that without much hassle.

[Haljackey 17,385]

Without a doubt the RHW mod has a steeper learning curve than the Maxis Highways. You have to play with it to get a feel for how the network works. Trial and error is also needed to understand functionality.

Regarding timing, it all depends on the user and what you want. Since this isn't a simple plop job... you are the creative mind behind the highway. A new user might take a few mins to make a basic interchange whereas an expeienced user can use the same amount of time to make a more complex junction.

...And yes, highways take up a lot of space, and that's a big surprise when someone switches from Maxis Highways to the RHW. The MHW is severely underscaled whereas the RHW is much more realistic. For contrast, a simple loop ramp is about the same size as a pre-fab MHW interchange.

In SC2013 I would assume for now that highways outside the city tile are more of the 'rural' style and will be more compact / 'urban' if they are to be used in the city tiles themselves.

[grugor 60]

non of the above are possible as one way roads are not in the game or very unlikely to to in the game. on / off ramps need to be one way after all.

The reason for no one way roads from what i can gather is, if your place a one way road without an exit and zone. the moving in vans , garbage truck etc get stuck as they have no exit or it breaks the engine somehow. Im hoping they figure a way around this but guillaume has sad already that its unlikely they will make it into the game

[Wiimeiser 452]

They've confirmed highways though, so we'll be stuck with prefabs?

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

So I'm not too sure that just because they say "yes there are bridges", it means users get to place them. I look at Ocram's cxl curve bridge picture above, and noted how long a typical suspension bridge is. Based on the small size of the tiles as shown below, and the typical size of bridges, it begs the questions:

Will users get to place bridges anywhere they like in the region? Or will users get to build bridges only within a 2x2 tile that happens to be given a river by Maxis? So far only Maxis get to play at region level so better ask... Someone in the know please advice.

Yes there are bridges, and the players will get to place them.

Thanks for answering!

Hopefully the highlighted will receive some answers too...

[grugor 60]

They've confirmed highways though, so we'll be stuck with prefabs?

They have confirmed highways in the region. Maxis placed highways.They have Not said anything about highways within your city

[grugor 60]

So I'm not too sure that just because they say "yes there are bridges", it means users get to place them. I look at Ocram's cxl curve bridge picture above, and noted how long a typical suspension bridge is. Based on the small size of the tiles as shown below, and the typical size of bridges, it begs the questions:

Will users get to place bridges anywhere they like in the region? Or will users get to build bridges only within a 2x2 tile that happens to be given a river by Maxis? So far only Maxis get to play at region level so better ask... Someone in the know please advice.

Yes there are bridges, and the players will get to place them.

Thanks for answering!

Hopefully the highlighted will receive some answers too...

As far as i am aware you cant build anything in the region (except great works). However, in the latest interview. It shows power lines being laid between two cities

simcity section starts at 6.50

[richardye1 0]

subways , highways, one way roads, elevated rail or else i'll stick with SC4

[Screwballl 196]

As far as i am aware you cant build anything in the region (except great works). However, in the latest interview. It shows power lines being laid between two cities

simcity section starts at 6.50

I am still not impressed.... most of us want an EXPANSIVE game like CXL and SC4 which includes the transportation system, not a pretty game that sacrifices the expansive nature of this genre. Some pretty buildings and new road format (which is what CXL had already but on much larger maps) is not going to sell this game. Only 4 transportation systems (road, rail, bus and trolley) is not enough for a self proclaimed "realism simulator". The lack of subways and highways in the least, and with the agent system taxis and other options should be available as well. Oh well some of the new transportation options will probably come as a $50 expansion pack, and more via a $20 DLC.... just to get the game we want, it will end up costing us hundreds of dollars... not a good business plan since most of us will not pay it.

[marksman1416 12]

I'm perticulary happy that they are actually refencing civil engineering manuals for things like the bus system. Also that you have to use switchbacks to get up hills instead of just a straight steep road.

[MegaCitySim 68]

The tiles are very small, I'm thinking even if trams get to dig underground (good idea btw), it's really awkward, and limited to the correct kind of preset terrains.

The same preset terrains problem also affect rails and bridges. I don't know if bridges can be built on the region level, but even if you're ok with the unrealism of 2+ railstations inside the town tiles, you are only allowed to built rails inside 'rail-enabled' tiles. It's probably the same or bridges, not allowed except inside a, river tile? I thought there's no river?

The information scarcity is also puzzling..

The preset stuff make it feel like they are babysitting the players or something, maybe for their 'new direction' kind of gamers. These new facebook city game kind of restrictions are very unattrative to me as a typical sim gamer... I'm not a mod expert but even I get to mod levels in almost every other shooting games nowadays, and to think that sc13 is posing as a city building game...but no nasic 'level editing' of roads except inside a small tile...is really kinda ridiculous if you ask me..

[Haljackey 17,385]

The information scarcity is also puzzling..

How so? Maxis has provided the community a great deal of information regarding the road and transit networks and how they're going to work in the simulation. They'll release more information when they're ready, This game still has several months of development time left and I expect more details to trickle in up to and post-release.

[Von Dion 3]

I'm not sure that I agree SimCity is shaping up to be deficent in transportion. Yes, there's a few less options then before. But the fact both cars and buses are now actually simulated, rather than just visual elements, is pretty cool. Buses in SimCity were literally a one-tile building that players plopped here and there. 'd hardly call that sophisticated, nor do I think the new game should harken back to that.

[MegaCitySim 68]

Information scarcity - like I said I have to dig deep on this site to find for example key classic things like 'god mode' or regional level rail and freeway and subway is no more. Another thing is I find it (intentionally orunintentionally) misleading in the way that Maxis phrase 'there are rails' and then from a core fan's pov that is not even half true. But yes from a cityville player's pov, it's true!

I mean look at the slow growth of the confirmed features topic!

I really think there should be a confirmed not-anymore topic...

[fatbuster 44]

If anyone is still wondering if there will build-able highways, at least inside your city, here's an interesting quote from one of the Directors at Maxis:

"BRING IT! Just laid down a 4-lane highway that will bring massive amounts of tourists to my gambling paradise of Scotchopolis"

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's confirmed but it's looking highly likely.

Here's the original tweet

[Haljackey 17,385]

'Highway' could mean anything at this point. I remain skeptical about the inclusion of controlled-access highways within the city tiles.

[Frode789 70]

If anyone is still wondering if there will build-able highways, at least inside your city, here's an interesting quote from one of the Directors at Maxis:

"BRING IT! Just laid down a 4-lane highway that will bring massive amounts of tourists to my gambling paradise of Scotchopolis"

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's confirmed but it's looking highly likely.

Here's the original tweet

It probably is just the same as the so-called "highways" we've seen in earlier screens between city tiles. (which isn't real highways, with on-off ramps)

[fatbuster 44]

Yeah, I also wouldn't exactly call it a confirmation as he could have been talking about something like an avenue or something other than a limited access roadway and just calling it a highway. Also, I don't see how the inter-city roads aren't real highways. Even though there are currently intersections where ramps and interchanges should be doesn't mean that those aren't just placeholders until they get around to implementing them. They could just be a WIP just like the rail intersections are right now (at least I'm hoping they are).

Of course, the only way we could know the answer right know is if someone like MaxisGuillaume would be able to let us now.

[Eshy 2]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=tsm_1_tw_s_vg_mdi5w6?docId=1000856141 if you stop and look at 0:36 that looks like a suspended highway inside the city tile am i right?

[grugor 60]

http://www.amazon.co...ocId=1000856141 if you stop and look at 0:36 that looks like a suspended highway inside the city tile am i right?

That is just a 4 lane road that has been elevated

[MegaCitySim 68]

Yes it is just a 4 lane road.. I feel, with the transport features confirmed to be no more...this simcity is going to be a very lightweight city sim with minimal transport management.

I want to say maybe they will be making a rush hour type expansion later, but after this video I'm convinced that they are making a cityville 2.0 in 3D... The video is obviously not speaking to people who've played any versions of previous simcities, like they are introducing basic simcity concepts to a new audience. Cityville type players won't are about transport simulation or mini transport tycoon sort of game so I'm pessimistic about expansion..

[Cob92 360]

Really they are taking out a big chunk of player options by not allowing highways. A truly open city builder would allow a player not just to specialize economically, but also to determine what sort of built environment prevails in his/her city. That means you have the option to go LA style and rely mainly on high capacity roads and freeways, or New York style with pedestrian access and public transportation, or anything inbetween, or something entirely new and different. The fewer options they have the more players will be forced to build cities that are clones of each other.