SimCity: Transit and Roading Networks

[alvinheriadi 2]

[Mod Edit & Cleanup]

This thread is for the discussion of transportation in SC2013

  Edited June 17, 2012 by Blue Lightning  
Cleaned up

[croxis 150]

I want to ask about roads in SC5 and I have a list of questions:

1. Will there be roundabouts like in the NAM?
2. Is the highway in SC5 modular like the RHW, or is it like SC4 without the RHW?
3. What is the minimum intersection angle? 45 deg like CXL, or less?

I hope someone from MAXIS who has a Simtropolis account can answer my question.

I don't think they even know yet. They have just finished the engine and have just started game content and simcity specific mechanics. Just wait and see, we have a year.

[hittwice99 618]

At this stage, it has been announced that curved roads will be an option, unlike in SC4. However we don't know specific information about the transportation system yet. I presume it will be an improvement on SC4's system, but I'm sure all will be revealed closer to the release date.

[TekindusT 3,809]

Tarkus often says that the Maxis people have been watching closely the community during the last years. I'm quite sure that they have taken note of the vast improvements the NAM and its addons brought.

  Edited March 11, 2012 by TekindusT  

[idcaf 65]

Offtopic but minimum intersection angle in CXL is not 45°it's more like 25°or something

[KeanoManu 42]

They seem to take very much inspiration from Cities XL, so far unfortunately mostly the bad stuff (online focus primarly). But hopefully they'll also take the one feature from Cities XL that i really looked forward too, but in the end was cut-out - The Multiple Lane Feature.

I had to dig far into the internet-arhives to find the blog post they posted about it but i found it.

"The « Multiple lanes » feature allows players to define how streets are composed. In CU, streets are defined by a set of lanes placed alongside each other. You have the freedom to set the type of each lane (pavement or road) and its direction. This allows you for instance to create streets with only one road lane and pavements each side or a huge avenue made of 3 road lanes on one side, 5 others on the other side and no pavement.

At a later stage you’ll also be able to give a specific use to a particular lane by restricting the kind of vehicule that can use that lane. For example you will be able to define bus lanes or cycling lanes. Think about possibilities!"

Hit The Road Again!

Hit the road again!

08-11-2007 00:00 Nicolas

Hello, my name is Nicolas, I’m the lead programmer of the simulation part of the game. I’m also in charge of the transport system. Today I would like to share my views concerning roads in CITIES XL.

Recently, we’ve been following two discussions in the English forum started by Phil(Road Creator) and MadScientist289 (The unofficial road thread) as well as another discussion in the German forum by th.cb(Verkehrswege & Transportsysteme) where you can read a few ideas on the community vision of how roads should be implemented in CITIES XL.

Back when I was working on City Life two years ago, we felt that having a grid free system for placement was the way to go if we wanted to allow players more freedom. Also going for full 3D was the required condition for bringing more realism and enabling players to build unique-looking cities.

However this system came at a cost, having multiple intersections and roads that crossed at arbitrary angles and bridges that crossed over other bridges was deeply enjoyable as a player but also a mind-boggling challenge for the programmer I was then!

So, the main question when I started on this project was: How can we improve it? Both for the player and for us programmers! Which direction to take for roads in CITIES XL?

We therefore decided to move down the route of what we called “Multiple Lane” roads.

A basic road is composed at least of a lane for vehicles to move in a given direction. It may also be surrounded by pavements allowing pedestrians to walk safely.

The « Multiple lanes » feature allows players to define how streets are composed. In CU, streets are defined by a set of lanes placed alongside each other. You have the freedom to set the type of each lane (pavement or road) and its direction. This allows you for instance to create streets with only one road lane and pavements each side or a huge avenue made of 3 road lanes on one side, 5 others on the other side and no pavement.

At a later stage you’ll also be able to give a specific use to a particular lane by restricting the kind of vehicule that can use that lane. For example you will be able to define bus lanes or cycling lanes. Think about possibilities!

In the following screenshots, you can see how it is actually implemented in our simulation engine (it doesn’t yet include our shiny graphics engine )

[sCREENSHOTS MISSING!]

And for those who may be wondering… Yes! These are curved roads!

This is all for my first blog entry!

I hope I have shed some light on the topic and that you have a better understanding of how we feel about roads here at MC for CITIES XL.

We’ll explain you in a future blog entry how it connects with other transport means.

Do not hesitate to discuss this in the forum. I’ll read you with pleasure…

[Bipin 3,402]

What I'm wondering is if roads will be smoothly curved like this:

...Or "jagged" like in CitiesXL:

http://t1.gstatic.co...5NNWAyLEhGtk-0z

  Edited March 11, 2012 by Bipin  

[TheRealDeadaim 38]

Being Maxis I would imagine it will be properly curved.

[jacksunny 741]

^Agreed, those jagged roads in CXL look horrible.

[Carborundum 2]

I kinda remember roundabouts being mentioned at the GDC event.

[Terribletown USA 18]

It would be nice if we could select asphalt or concrete roads/highways, it wouldn't even need to affect gameplay, just for the aesthetics.

  Edited March 11, 2012 by Terribletown USA  

[Epilef 57]

Unfortunately, for what was spoken, and what was not, I think part of transport will be greatly simplified.

They said they will escape the complexity and realism of SC4, to try something more fun.

I would not be surprised if the game only came with road, avenue and a simplified version of the highway. Maybe only heavy trains and subways.

[Tarkus 6,931]

Unfortunately, for what was spoken, and what was not, I think part of transport will be greatly simplified.

They said they will escape the complexity and realism of SC4, to try something more fun.

I would not be surprised if the game only came with road, avenue and a simplified version of the highway. Maybe only heavy trains and subways.

The demo of the engine shown at the GDC already showed roads looking like the MAVE-4 (RD-4) and AVE-6 in the NWM. That's a very promising sign that they're going to have more in the game than SC4 (and believe it or not, one that wasn't entirely out of the blue). Adding a few more transportation types, particularly if the mechanisms are well-designed, isn't going to appreciably increase the complexity of the game.

Of course, they're not really at the point of being able to talk about specific transportation options at this point. The information from Maxis relating to transportation in SimCity has been primarily limited to basic engine-related considerations, and I'd imagine we'll know more once we get closer to release time. As you may recall, Monte Cristo waxed poetically about the Multi-Lane Tool and other appealing transport options pretty early on in the process with CXL--and then they pulled them, and irritated the heck out of a lot of their would-be customer base in the process. EA/Maxis certainly isn't going to make the same mistake.

Keep in mind that 2013 could, in theory, mean anytime between January and December of that year. We could be looking at 9 months, or we could be looking at 21 months until release. They haven't said specifically when in 2013--nor would I expect them to until we're much closer to it.

-Tarkus

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Seeing as major games are always released in Q4 (including holiday themed and the game of the summer blockbuster), it would only be natural that we will have to wait approximately 18 months (August-October being the range for casual games, October-November for top 10 franchises and December for themed games).

[TekindusT 3,809]

Agreed with OcramSeattle. It would be quite pointless to release the game out of the Q4. More time to develope the game, better sales and more players willing to spend their money.

[TheRealDeadaim 38]

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

[Cob92 360]

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

SC4 came out a decade ago. The gaming world was much different then from how it is now.

[KeanoManu 42]

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

SC4 came out a decade ago. The gaming world was much different then from how it is now.

True, but the fact that major games are released in Q3/Q4 are probably even more true know than it was ten years ago.

If a major game are released in say, november, what do you think most 'kids' will wish to get for christmas?

[chocolate_city 93]

Well I ain't seen no roads. no freeways, just buildings and they're cartoonish at best... its too soon

[Baro 44]

Will there be roundabouts like in the NAM?

Yes but they will have really bad public art in the centre, this might be fixed in a mod.

Is the highway in SC5 modular like the RHW, or is it like SC4 without the RHW?

The highway system will not be modular, but will be based on a new "quantum" highway placement system.

What is the minimum intersection angle? 45 deg like CXL, or less?

exactly 23.56 degrees, 24.3429 on hard mode.

Hope that clears things up! If you have any more very specific questions to ask feel free!

  Edited March 13, 2012 by Baro  

[meowza 230]

lol Baro

But really, I bet Maxis had seen how flexible CXL roads can be. So I hope they take that as an inspiration and a challenge to further improve it for SC. I have my doubts on in though.

[croxis 150]

Guys, remember that they just finished the engine. A lot of content that will be in the game probably hasn't been made yet.

[TheRealDeadaim 38]

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

SC4 came out a decade ago. The gaming world was much different then from how it is now.

Mass effect 3 (and 2 PS3), assassins creed brotherhood, total war shogun out past year or so in Q1. It depends on the marketing and tax strategy - it can be beneficial to release it in Q1 to split the revenue over 2 tax years. EA don't have any unique big games coming out this tax year except MoH. I reckon C&C Generals 2 will be EA's Christmas 2013 release. More likely to be a big Christmas seller for kids than SC5 imo.

That's ignoring Development time on the game though. Could just come down to when it's ready to ship.

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

SC4 came out a decade ago. The gaming world was much different then from how it is now.

Mass effect 3 (and 2 PS3), assassins creed brotherhood, total war shogun out past year or so in Q1. It depends on the marketing and tax strategy - it can be beneficial to release it in Q1 to split the revenue over 2 tax years. EA don't have any unique big games coming out this tax year except MoH. I reckon C&C Generals 2 will be EA's Christmas 2013 release. More likely to be a big Christmas seller for kids than SC5 imo.

That's ignoring Development time on the game though. Could just come down to when it's ready to ship.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The one nice thing that they could do for road curves in the country, especially highways (if any) would be to have them as segments of spirals. Most highway curves these days are.

Grid-type intersections in town are not all that uncommon, but some streets come together at weird angles due to the historical existence of trails, cow paths, game trails, etc. Just look at some of the downtown intersections in the east end of Toronto near the Esplanade or Wellington Street. The idea of a triangular "flat iron" building should be feasible.

[XXProtoXX 6]

Well, because of the agents, I wonder if it will still be possible to see massive traffic jams.

[snick25 384]

What I'm wondering is if roads will be smoothly curved like this:

http://users.skynet....beersel-140.jpg

...Or "jagged" like in CitiesXL:

http://t1.gstatic.co...5NNWAyLEhGtk-0z

Great work, you've managed to show the worst picture of a road ever taken in CXL, and pass it off as if that's typical.

FYI - Most roads in CXL look nothing like that.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

To be honest, Cities XL is based off of City Life, which was node based with free angle straight roads. It is conceivable that their "curved" roads tool was actually a series of straight roads treated as 1 spline.

[Cob92 360]

Yea, major games are always released in the fall. I mean it's not like Sim City 4 was released in January or anything.

SC4 came out a decade ago. The gaming world was much different then from how it is now.

True, but the fact that major games are released in Q3/Q4 are probably even more true know than it was ten years ago.

If a major game are released in say, november, what do you think most 'kids' will wish to get for christmas?

You missed the sarcasm in his post.

[squeaky024 14]

I hope freeways/ highways will be able to connect at shallow angles. Sometimes when making these (hopefully) high speed routes you need to make wide turns and when you reach another highway you may meet it at a shallow angle, with no room to meet it at a proper Y or T... instead its some kind of shallow y. I had similar issues with streets in cities xl where I wanted to branch off a main avenue with a small one way street, like a highway ramp, except it wouldn't allow me to make it.

[Mark Waybill 242]

It would be nice to have proper rather than combined straight pieces at varied angles curves in roads, based on spirals. I think as long as roads can be any shape and have multiple editable lanes of varying types I'll be happy, and complex freeway intersections and curved tunnels can wait. Bicycle/walking paths, cobbled streets, tramlines etc would be great, and curved or diagonal at least bridges. If I could look at my city in a data map and at a street directory (say if I was recreating a real life city from googlemaps or wtvr) I'd like it to be not only recognisable vaguely but look like the real city would in a satellite picture. Very few cities have perfect grid layouts and even those will be connected to neighbourhoods that don't. So curved roads are a must I think.

I'd say the same for railways, and being able to choose the type of station/number of tracks etc. But then again maybe my priorities aren't the best, as I'd be turning Simcity into SimModelrailroad