SimCity: Gameplay

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

Could you just nip down to San Fransicso Dirk, and take a sticky beak for us next week?

[DocRorlach 25]

Since the translation of the original looks like one of those horrid Google jobs (quite a bit of it does not make sense): does anyone have a link to the German original so I can correct it?

[City Planner 121]

The more I think about this, yeah, the more I think that Dirk wouldn't just arbitrarily create a SC5 forum category just at the announcement in gamestar, he would certainly have contacted one of his contacts at EA or Maxis to be certain.

On the other hand... How many other sites that are involved with Simcity in one way or another, have up speculative Simcity 5 forums and have had for years. Maybe Dirk is just 'getting with the times', so to speak.

  Edited March 2, 2012 by City Planner  

[waybig 35]

Since the translation of the original looks like one of those horrid Google jobs (quite a bit of it does not make sense): does anyone have a link to the German original so I can correct it?

Here's a link to a scans of the article

[DocRorlach 25]

After reading the original artical, it turns out to be pointless to translate the entire thing. The most important part, as far as I am concerned, is said in the Interview with Lucy Bradshaw, where Ms. Bradshaw very clearly states that custom content a la SC4 will not be available:

(roughly translated quotes)

Q: "The importing of the user's custom content was a stroke of genius which made SimCity much more attractive to end users."

A: "We do not currently envisage that; the two games [sC4 & SC5, ed.] are technically too different for that."

This indicates that the new game will be nothing more than a souped up version of Societies. It also shows that the folks at EA/Maxis have little intention of listening to what the die-hard SC4 community has to say. It appears that the forthcoming game will be merely a reaction to CityXL.

BTW: none of the graphics shown in the article are "real", they are merely concept art, i.e., what some artists think the game might look like.

[jacksunny 741]

^That's wonderful :|

[blak 4]

They really should listen the SC4 community.

If they're making a more colorful SimCity Societies, then Maxis is dead to me.

And that would be a terrible thing since SimCity 2000 was the first game I've ever played on a PC.

[nashville nelson 51]

[...]

(roughly translated quotes)

Q: "The importing of the user's custom content was a stroke of genius which made SimCity much more attractive to end users."

A: "We do not currently envisage that; the two games [sC4 & SC5, ed.] are technically too different for that."

[...]

Sorry but there is a mistake.

The question is about the possibility to import buildings from the SIMS to get more players to play SC5 which she denied because the games are to different.

[jigsaw 227]

After reading the original artical, it turns out to be pointless to translate the entire thing. The most important part, as far as I am concerned, is said in the Interview with Lucy Bradshaw, where Ms. Bradshaw very clearly states that custom content a la SC4 will not be available:

(roughly translated quotes)

Q: "The importing of the user's custom content was a stroke of genius which made SimCity much more attractive to end users."

A: "We do not currently envisage that; the two games [sC4 & SC5, ed.] are technically too different for that."

This indicates that the new game will be nothing more than a souped up version of Societies. It also shows that the folks at EA/Maxis have little intention of listening to what the die-hard SC4 community has to say. It appears that the forthcoming game will be merely a reaction to CityXL.

BTW: none of the graphics shown in the article are "real", they are merely concept art, i.e., what some artists think the game might look like.

im hopeful they dont lock us out. if they are half smart they would know that our custom content kept the game running all these years. it will be an epic fail to not allow custom content.

  Edited March 2, 2012 by jigsaw  

[UsmanMS 10]

So what they are saying is that buildings and other stuff from SimCity 4 cannot be imported to SimCity 5, right? Sort like the same thing from SC3000 to SC4. So meaning if we would want to build stuff in SC5, we have to start from scratch?

  Edited March 2, 2012 by UsmanMS  

[BurroDiablo 222]

[...]

(roughly translated quotes)

Q: "The importing of the user's custom content was a stroke of genius which made SimCity much more attractive to end users."

A: "We do not currently envisage that; the two games [sC4 & SC5, ed.] are technically too different for that."

[...]

Sorry but there is a mistake.

The question is about the possibility to import buildings from the SIMS to get more players to play SC5 which she denied because the games are to different.

Phew, I was worried for a second there! Still, it's kind of an odd question... import buildings from the Sims? Oh well.

Seriously, Sim City without custom content is like... like... some awesome simile I haven't thought of yet.

edit

One of my German friends translated the Lucy Bradshaw bit further if anybody is interested...

Game Star: You took your time for the fourth SimCity..

Lucy Bradshaw: ...because we were busy with Sims and Spore - and we wanted to make sure that SimCity offers a more intelligent AI, a reasonable multiplayer mode, finally some bent roads and 3D graphics with comfort. So you're able to change the camera angle, and houses which would conceal your view while zooming in vanish automatically.

Game Star: The importing of own houses from The Sims would certainly be a stroke of genius to pitch SimCity to even more players.

Lucy Bradshaw: We can't do that at the moment; technically, the games are too different to realize that. Although the individualization stays: In The Sims, you design your house with a high level of detail, in SimCity, you upgrade your buildings with new modules which bring their own intelligence and game mechanics with them.

Game Star: Does Lucy Bradshaw have sufficient time to play, considering all the meetings?

Lucy Bradshaw: Oh yes: I play our own titles and often give more feedback than the team would like me to give. On the way, I play on iPhone and iPad, and I usually spend my Christmas Holidays on playing RTS games.

I notice the mention of... multiplayer (reasonable multiplayer). Wonder how that'll turn out

  Edited March 2, 2012 by BurroDiablo  

[Tarkus 6,932]

So what they are saying is that buildings and other stuff from SimCity 4 cannot be imported to SimCity 5, right? Sort like the same thing from SC3000 to SC4. So meaning if we would want to build stuff in SC5, we have to start from scratch?

That's a given. For starters, it looks like this is going to be true-3D, rather than orthographic projection (commonly mistaken for "isolinear") as exists in SC4. If the creator has the original assets, and the game is indeed allowing custom content, once the tools are available, theoretically, it might be possible to retrofit it to the new specs. That said, modeling for a true-3D game is a very different beast than for an orthographic projection game. As the model isn't being rendered as projections at fixed angles, the polygon ("poly") count has to be much, much lower. If you stick a 200,000 poly model (which some BATers have in spades--I've heard of some folks exceeding 1,000,000 polys) in there, it's probably going to make the game (and your computer) have an aneurysm.

As far as whether or not the game will allow custom content, that particular question DocRorlach brought up on custom content seems to be aimed at the import of Sims 3 content. The actual question posed to Lucy Bradshaw is, in the original German, "Das importieren eigener Häuser aus Die Sims wäre doch ein Geniestreich, um SimCity noch mehr Spielern schmackhaft zu machen?" Even if you don't understand German particularly well, the bolded part makes it pretty clear that the interviewer is talking about The Sims [3], not SimCity 4. The sentence roughly translates as: "The import of the player's own houses from The Sims would be a stroke of genius to make SimCity more palatable?" (Edit: Burro beat me to it with a real German-speaker doing the translation--reads a fair bit better than my rough job.)

The answer here makes sense . . . the 3-year-old Sims 3 game and the presumed "SCV" (or "SC5") are likely to have very different inner works.

I think before we really get our pants in a bundle, we should wait for an official, English-language announcement from EA, so there's absolutely nothing lost in translation. The speculation is a bit more educated now, but it's still speculation.

Edit:

I notice the mention of... multiplayer (reasonable multiplayer). Wonder how that'll turn out

Unlike Monte Cristo, which was just a relatively small studio that pretty much went under by trying to have servers for Planet Offer for CXL, EA's one of the biggest in the business. They can afford to run a server farm if they want to--and I think they're probably going to get a pretty hefty profit off this title. An private-server IP option would probably be a good selling tool as well.

-Tarkus

  Edited March 2, 2012 by Tarkus  

[GrimJr987 15]

Well, Maxis are responsible for development, and with EA publishing this, I think there will be NO custom content, not if this game is Origin Exclusive.

This possible outcome is likely because of DLC. EA will force DLC on you, and knowing them will probably take out the begginer Power Plants so you have to buy them as Day One DLC.

We can just develop mod tools ourselves though

[City Planner 121]

... in SimCity, you upgrade your buildings with new modules which bring their own intelligence and game mechanics with them.

Wait a minute... What game does that line up there sound like? Sounds like something from Societies if I remember correctly.

The main thing that I worry about with a SC5 is whether or not we will have cities as sprawling as they can be in SC4, or if we are going to be limited to cities the size of which we saw in Societies. I hope the former as the latter was awful small.

But it seems when some of these games go full 3D, they not only lose features but the size of everything in the game increases in size and thus limits how much you can place in an area, thus making what we hope to be metropolis's only turn out as smaller looking cities, or even towns.

Hopefully they don't lose too many features that we have now, most games when they go full blown 3D lose a lot of features and explain it off as being because of all the graphical work that was needed to go 3D. I hate that explanation and sadly have seen it in almost every game that I've played that has made the jump to full 3D.

  Edited March 2, 2012 by City Planner  

[jacksunny 741]

I think the elimination of small square shaped cities is long overdue. In SC5, I'd like if you could define your own city boundaries and make them quite big.

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

One option would be to keep the grid, but eliminate the restriction of rectangular shape--there can be a mixed boundary between orthogonal (either north/south or east-west) and 45º diagonal (such as in raster images--a line determined by squares aligned along their opposite vertexes. This could be done with some regional supertile in which boundaries can be drawn, allowing for a maximum developable area (instead of the current 16 sq km it could be 100 sq km, or even up to 256 sq km). This should suffice for a large city center, and remember that not all cities have a single government for an entire metropolitan area; and it often happens that the cities get some internal division for local administrative purposes.

[Durfsurn 539]

I think that if this is a real sim city 5 we have to get Maxis to make the game as moddable as possible. No locked exe's or things like that. We need to get in contact with EA and Maxis about asking the GAMERS and MODDERS who have made sc4 so good. If they can incorporate what the fans want in a game won't sales be larger? They should have a look at the wish list in the forum and get some ideas by making a thread and ASKING what WE want for SimCity 5! Who has contacts with Maxis? Should we get them to make an account like EASimCity 5 and make a thread?

[GrimJr987 15]

It's a plus for Maxis, after Simcity 5, they can remake Spore

And do it right this time

[jacksunny 741]

No locked exe's or things like that.

That would mean making the game open-source, which EA won't do.

[Jazzmaster 716]

I think that if this is a real sim city 5 we have to get Maxis to make the game as moddable as possible. No locked exe's or things like that. We need to get in contact with EA and Maxis about asking the GAMERS and MODDERS who have made sc4 so good. If they can incorporate what the fans want in a game won't sales be larger? They should have a look at the wish list in the forum and get some ideas by making a thread and ASKING what WE want for SimCity 5! Who has contacts with Maxis? Should we get them to make an account like EASimCity 5 and make a thread?

I don't forsee them unlocking the EXE's for us, it's just simply the way it is. But when I think of how seldom I've had to complain that something can't be done because the EXE is locked, it's really not such a bad thing.

The few things we couldn't have, like a weather simulator and tunnels for the override networks, may and should be addressed in this new title.

I'm not sure about a wishlist thing...I remember a long time ago (like 5-6 years ago) when I first started up in the SC4 BBS before finding this website. There was a wishlist forum but it honestly didn't serve any end at all, at least that's what I thought after getting SC:S and SCC.

  Edited March 2, 2012 by Yoshiisland  

[City Planner 121]

I'm not sure about a wishlist thing...I remember a long time ago (like 5-6 years ago) when I first started up in the SC4 BBS before finding this website. There was a wishlist forum but it honestly didn't serve any end at all, at least that's what I thought after getting SC:S and SCC.

In my experience, wish lists do more to anger the consumer (that is making wishes) than anything else.

• They get mad if their wish is not included in the game
  
• They get mad if nobody from the developer or publisher acknowledges their wishes
  
• The get mad if their idea is implemented but not in the way they envisioned it should.
  
• And they get really mad if the dev or publisher says they are going to implement an idea but then can't or don't.
  
• And *some* say they won't QQ about it if any of that happens, but *some* end up QQ'ing anyway.
  

I just try to stay away from them, especially for a simcity game, as I think that EA has had 9 years or so to watch this site and collect all the ideas that people have had for a SC5. Hell, all that they need to really do is to visit the STEX and see what plugins are available for SC4 and they've got a massive wishlist right there just from all the things that people have created and or modded into the game through plugin.

But if it would actually make people happy to make wishes, go for it... But as I saw in a movie once... You can wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which fills up first.

  Edited March 3, 2012 by City Planner  

[Mithokey 96]

Just wondering if anyone knows if those pictures from the German magazine are actual photos of SC5, or if they are just predictions of what it will look like?

[City Planner 121]

No, there not real photos, they're concept art.

[+Guest tickleonthetummy]

What worries me the most is that this isn't what people think it is. It is apparently a co-development between Maxis & Playfish. Now Play fish ONLY make games for Facebook.

There are numerous reports on the net that this SimCity game is a facebook game:

26 May 2011

Zynga's Facebook stronghold challenged by new EA game, sources say

EA is to resurrect the SimCity IP in a new assault on the Zynga stronghold, MCV understands.

MCV sources say EA’s thriving Playfish division is building a new SimCity title for the Facebook platform – taking a once-strong IP out from three years of dormancy.

Electronic Arts, itself undertaking a huge transformation into digital, purchased Playfish late in 2009 in a deal worth as much as $400 million.

Playfish’s biggest rival, Zynga, coincidentally has achieved untold fortune partly due to the SimCity game model it uses in games like CityVille.

Early in the year, CityVille reached the most monthly active users for any application ever on Facebook.

27May 2011

SimCity is a series beloved by millions, and one that's sadly been neglected of late while the Sims franchise went supernova. Now, according to MCV, it's coming back.

Only, you may not like what comes next.

It seems that EA is bringing SimCity back as a Facebook game, hoping to steal a share of the casual market away from the likes of Zynga's CityVille and FarmVille.

It's most likely in development at EA's social specialists, Playfish.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to pretend this news story instead started with the line "SimCity 5 Coming To PC In 2012".

16 Feb. 2012

List of studios and their known/expected games, courtesy of Nirolak.

BioWare: Generals 2, Dragon Age 3

DICE: They have something that’s not Battlefield, what it is isn’t clear.

Danger Close: Medal of Honor 2

Visceral: Dead Space 3, Army of Four, Dante’s Inferno 2, at least 2 new IPs

Maxis/PlayFish: Sim City Facebook

Respawn: New IP

Insomniac: Overstrike, Outernauts

EA Partners: Populous

Criterion: Hot Pursuit 2

PopCap: They are presumably doing something.

EA Canada: FIFA 13, NBA Elite 13, NHL

Tiburon: Madden 13

16th Feb. 2012

Remember when a China-based Playfish team reportedly said that it stopped everything to "develop the hell out of SimCity" for Facebook? Well, the fruits of that supposed labor (or something else entirely) could be shown at this years Game Developers Conference (GDC) in San Francisco on March 6, according to CVG.

EA plans to live stream its Game Changers event during GDC, in which Maxis, the studio behind ubiquitous hits like SimCity and The Sims, will reveal a super secret project. The news broke when EA senior public relations director Erik Reynolds tweeted, "MORE INFO! EA Maxis GDC announcement, huge event w/ special guests."

The tweet included a link to the Game Changers Facebook page, which reads, "How can we change the world together? Find out when EA hosts the Game Changers event at GDC. What would you do if you had the power to change the world?" CVG hearkens back to a Maxis job posting looking for a designer with "knowledge of the Xbox 360 and PS3 rendering architectures and APIs" to work "on an upcoming triple-A simulation style game."

This ultimately leads CVG to believe that Maxis will announce a brand new SimCity game for the more powerful game consoles. However, this talk of Playfish doubling down on a SimCity Facebook game could mean that A.) EA and Maxis will announce a SimCity Facebook game B.) the two will announce a SimCity Xbox 360 and PS3 game C.) they will announce a SimCity game for Facebook, Xbox 360 and PS3 or D.) this has nothing to do with SimCity whatsoever. March 6 suddenly feels so far away.

With the continued use of the tagline "How can we change the world together?" for this announcement/game it really does suggest Social Networking. Don't forget they've just shoehorned in Social Networking into the Sims 3 with the latest patch and forthcoming EP...

[Pandemic 32]

Bring me GDC! I want to see some SimCity V stuff,

[Tarkus 6,932]

No locked exe's or things like that.

Honestly, my response to all the "we need the .exe" talk on the SC4 side--it's not nearly as critical as people really think it is. It'd probably take a dedicated team of programmers with substantial C++ experience at least 1-2 years to make heads or tails of it enough to actually be able to do anything with it. There's still a lot that can be done with SC4 that doesn't require modding the .exe, at least on the transportation side. We could probably go another 2-3 years on the SC4 NAM in theory.

I'm not sure about a wishlist thing...I remember a long time ago (like 5-6 years ago) when I first started up in the SC4 BBS before finding this website. There was a wishlist forum but it honestly didn't serve any end at all, at least that's what I thought after getting SC:S and SCC.

In my experience, wish lists do more to anger the consumer (that is making wishes) than anything else.

Agreed, 100%. I think seeing the general trajectory of SC4 over the past 9 years and all the feedback and content that has emanated therefrom makes the wishlist somewhat of a moot point. I have a feeling that even if most of the wishes are fulfilled, many of the hardcore wishlist makers are going to be bellyaching come release.

What worries me the most is that this isn't what people think it is. It is apparently a co-development between Maxis & Playfish. Now Play fish ONLY make games for Facebook.

. . .

With the continued use of the tagline "How can we change the world together?" for this announcement/game it really does suggest Social Networking. Don't forget they've just shoehorned in Social Networking into the Sims 3 with the latest patch and forthcoming EP...

You know, they could be working on both. That's actually quite plausible. Heck, they could announce the FB game at the GameChangers event (where Biz Stone of Twitter has been revealed as the third speaker), and then announce SC5 at the GlassBox presentation the next day. That'd be pretty funny, actually--I can just imagine the furor that would create.

-Tarkus

[UsmanMS 10]

That just might be possible that they could announce both SimCity games at GDC. And we know that GlassBox engine will be announced at GDC as it is in their schedule and I am 90% sure it is for the PC as confirmed by the magazine article. I have a question. Does the name 'GlassBox' engine actually mean something or is it just codename for now?

[Tarkus 6,932]

GlassBox, to me, evokes the image of being able to "see everything" . . . kind of like an aquarium. That'd be a very apt metaphor for a true-3D engine for a simulator.

-Tarkus

[DocRorlach 25]

I know the original question mentioned the Sims; however, thequestion was formulated general enough to cover custom content. Moreover, from the articles it becomes very clear that "legacy content" - i.e. what we batted & lotted - will not work, not even with modifications, because of the new graphics engine which is NOT isometric but uses "free view" approaches similar to CitiXL. Anyone seeing current batters recreating the100-odd GB of custom stuff to fit the new engine??

Maxis/EA is, as expected, once again going for the money only. They are being their usual shortsighted selves, and are apparently unable to peruse the fan sites. Or understand what close to a million SC4 players world-wide are trying to tell them. Some time back, Becca tried to get folks on various sites to come up with a concerted letter to Maxis; well, now would be a good time to revive that idea. We know the addressee: Lucy Bradshaw, in charge of all simulations at EA. The only hope we have is a simple one: Maxis is just starting out on this. Hence now would be the time for all SC4 fans to stand up and be counted,

Why not start a petition across the sites? Now, more than ever before, would be the time to round up the troops on every SC4 site and pool them into a single message: we know what SC5 should be able to do! They claim to have the next generation graphics engine. Again, we know what CitiXL did wrong. And we already have long lists on every site, detailing what we want. Should not be hard to get a few thousand signatories for a real petition. All it takes is someone like the Pegasus or the Dirktator to spearhead the idea.

Not taking such a step means we leave it all to a bunch of developers who probably were not even old enough to purchase SC4 Deluxe when it came out. What that means has been shown time and again - you need not look any further than Societies and/or CitiXL.

[croxis 150]

I know the original question mentioned the Sims; however, thequestion was formulated general enough to cover custom content. Moreover, from the articles it becomes very clear that "legacy content" - i.e. what we batted & lotted - will not work, not even with modifications, because of the new graphics engine which is NOT isometric but uses "free view" approaches similar to CitiXL. Anyone seeing current batters recreating the100-odd GB of custom stuff to fit the new engine??

Maxis/EA is, as expected, once again going for the money only. They are being their usual shortsighted selves, and are apparently unable to peruse the fan sites. Or understand what close to a million SC4 players world-wide are trying to tell them. Some time back, Becca tried to get folks on various sites to come up with a concerted letter to Maxis; well, now would be a good time to revive that idea. We know the addressee: Lucy Bradshaw, in charge of all simulations at EA. The only hope we have is a simple one: Maxis is just starting out on this. Hence now would be the time for all SC4 fans to stand up and be counted,

Why not start a petition across the sites? Now, more than ever before, would be the time to round up the troops on every SC4 site and pool them into a single message: we know what SC5 should be able to do! They claim to have the next generation graphics engine. Again, we know what CitiXL did wrong. And we already have long lists on every site, detailing what we want. Should not be hard to get a few thousand signatories for a real petition. All it takes is someone like the Pegasus or the Dirktator to spearhead the idea.

Not taking such a step means we leave it all to a bunch of developers who probably were not even old enough to purchase SC4 Deluxe when it came out. What that means has been shown time and again - you need not look any further than Societies and/or CitiXL.

This is a weak argument. Should people not have bought SC3000 because the custom content of SC200 didn't work with it? Should people not have bought Civilization IV because Civ IIIs custom units would not work with it? Of course a new game will not have as much content as its predecessors because it is new! And of course a new game should have to try maintain compatibility with older, outdated technology. Societies and CitiesXL did not fail because they are 3D. They failed because of sub-par gameplay and shallow simulations. Taking money away from the art department and giving it to the programmers wont fix that either. It takes good design and vision to make a great game and making it 2D doesn't make that magically happen.